Limerick improvement projects

marno21

Glenomra wrote: »

Just read that Southern Region of Ireland, limerick-cork-waterford , the third wealthiest in Europe. Astounding. Wonder will the Dublin media highlight that. Hardly in keeping with the accepted narrative.

For all the talk of that look at the triangle of roads connecting the three cities (N20, N24, N25). Imagine what the region could achieve if you could actually drive around it in reasonable times without sitting in Charleville/Mallow/Tipp Town/Buttevant/Clonmel/Carrick-on-Suir/Castlemartyr/Killeagh/Dungarvan

zulutango

marno21 wrote:

For all the talk of that look at the triangle of roads connecting the three cities (N20, N24, N25). Imagine what the region could achieve if you could actually drive around it in reasonable times without sitting in Charleville/Mallow/Tipp Town/Buttevant/Clonmel/Carrick-on-Suir/Castlemartyr/Killeagh/Dungarvan

It could achieve even more with good rail connections.

marno21

zulutango wrote: »

It could achieve even more with good rail connections.

Given where most of that productivity is coming from, rail connections won't benefit nearly as much as road connections.

Farming, industry, distributed business parks, all require good road connections, especially given the freight considerations here.

Vanquished

The provision of more and more roads just reinforces bad planning practices that have been all too prevalent in Ireland for decades and continue to be pursued to this day. We need to be consolidating growth in urban centres and increasing densities to make services like public transport in cities such as Cork, Limerick and Waterford more viable and effective.

This country already has an extremely dense road network considering its land area and population. My fear is that the development of the M20 and an upgraded N24 will just facilitate more dispersed sprawl, one-off rural housing and encourage more long distance car commuting. With the associated negative impacts that entails. A direct rail connection between Limerick and Cork needs to be reinstated. The line is still in place from Colbert Station to Patrickswell and it would not be a particularly difficult or expensive to connect Patrickswell to the main Dublin - Cork line at Charleville. It's high time we focused on providing more sustainable transport modes instead of promoting further car ownership and car dependent development.

kilburn

Any thoughts on the southern region development plan?

marno21

Vanquished wrote: »

The provision of more and more roads just reinforces bad planning practices that have been all too prevalent in Ireland for decades and continue to be pursued to this day. We need to be consolidating growth in urban centres and increasing densities to make services like public transport in cities such as Cork, Limerick and Waterford more viable and effective.

This country already has an extremely dense road network considering its land area and population. My fear is that the development of the M20 and an upgraded N24 will just facilitate more dispersed sprawl, one-off rural housing and encourage more long distance car commuting. With the associated negative impacts that entails. A direct rail connection between Limerick and Cork needs to be reinstated. The line is still in place from Colbert Station to Patrickswell and it would not be a particularly difficult or expensive to connect Patrickswell to the main Dublin - Cork line at Charleville. It's high time we focused on providing more sustainable transport modes instead of promoting further car ownership and car dependent development.

The development of sprawl adjacent to dual carriageways and motorways is effectively dealt with using planning laws. It is currently possible to go from Cork to Limerick via rail in a time that is competitive with road. I agree that public transport needs improvement, but I'd rather focus on public transport improvements within Limerick and Cork than between them. Getting around Limerick from Colbert and getting around Cork from Kent is far too difficult.

Proper road connections are a must in a low density, dispersed country like Ireland. The current N20 and N24 are not fit for purpose, and rail lines won't solve that.

zulutango

marno21 wrote:

Farming, industry, distributed business parks, all require good road connections, especially given the freight considerations here. Given where most of that productivity is coming from, rail connections won't benefit nearly as much as road connections.

This is the new mantra. We need the roads because the existing road network isn't good enough for moving freight. We're not building them to move people. Can you develop your argument a little bit?

zulutango

marno21 wrote:

Proper road connections are a must in a low density, dispersed country like Ireland. The current N20 and N24 are not fit for purpose, and rail lines won't solve that.

We need to switch from being a low density, dispersed country. Building roads will only make us more so. It's high time we grasped the nettle here. If we don't we're going to become less and less competitive.

pigtown

kilburn wrote: »

Any thoughts on the southern region development plan?

I saw all the controversy about Cork getting priority over Limerick but when you think about it, Cork has a population multiples of Limerick's. Of course a bigger city is going to get a bigger focus.

I see that the proposal for a new town north of the university is in the plan which is incredibly disappointing. Once it becomes official policy it'll be very difficult to argue against it. I can't really remember much else that's specific to Limerick in the plan.

zulutango

pigtown wrote:

I see that the proposal for a new town north of the university is in the plan which is incredibly disappointing. Once it becomes official policy it'll be very difficult to argue against it. I can't really remember much else that's specific to Limerick in the plan.

The LNDR is in there. And there's provision for further one off housing. What's not in there is also a problem. It's fairly backward, while at the same time using the language of the NPF to give it credibility. I think it's understandable that Cork has the greater focus but you'd expect professional planners to see the bigger picture. Good planning isn't about reinforcing the status quo (necessarily). It may be that it makes sense for Galway, Waterford or Limerick to be the second city in the future.

ongarboy

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/367294/limerick-dunnes-stores-lobby-writes-to-companys-chief-executive.html

Good to see more noise being created around the long abandoned Dunnes Stores Sarsfield Street site. Whether it amounts to anything is another story. Dunnes seem to famously not be bothered with giving back to local communities in any way, shape or form and would happily let this site rot then make it available to competitors or for alternative uses. They have similar town centre sites up and down the country lying idle in the same way.

dave 27

Dunnes couldnt care less about anything other than making some money, even if its to the detriment of a community.

Look at the Jetland, it had a load of great occupants but Dunnes (who own the place) didnt want to lower the rates, so one by one everyone left leaving it a bare shell and a complete wasted opportunity too.

mart 23

Is there anything happening with the old ESB premises Maybe the Mayor Mr Butler should be pressing to have this site put on the derelict register list.

dave 27

mart 23 wrote: »

Is there anything happening with the old ESB premises Maybe the Mayor Mr Butler should be pressing to have this site put on the derelict register list.

I could be wrong but if the site has full planning permission then i would say until it runs out you probably wouldnt be able to do much with it, its only a guess tho.

Anyone know what is happening to the train station? Saw scaffold erected around it the other day?

James McNulty

mart 23 wrote: »

Is there anything happening with the old ESB premises Maybe the Mayor Mr Butler should be pressing to have this site put on the derelict register list.

Isn't that his Uncle's site?

bigpink

James McNulty wrote: »

Isn't that his Uncle's site?

Oh interesting

tweek84

mart 23 wrote: »

Is there anything happening with the old ESB premises Maybe the Mayor Mr Butler should be pressing to have this site put on the derelict register list.

Where is the Old ESB premises?

Mc Love

Seems like the right idea, as I've noticed that most of the traffic that use the bridge are heading out of the city. Time to reward those who live in the city and want to cycle to work/school safely.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/367685/limerick-election-candidate-calls-for-cycle-lanes-to-bridge-the-gap-for-kids.html

Cookiemunster

Mc Love wrote: »

Seems like the right idea, as I've noticed that most of the traffic that use the bridge are heading out of the city. Time to reward those who live in the city and want to cycle to work/school safely.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/367685/limerick-election-candidate-calls-for-cycle-lanes-to-bridge-the-gap-for-kids.html

The solution isn't, in my opinion, cycle lanes next to traffic. They should be segregated, which isn't possible on the bridge. A dedicated pedestrian/cycle bridge located between Sarsfield and Shannon bridges (which seems to be in the latest development plan) is the answer. Or in the short term a cycle path tacked onto the city side of the bridge outside the railing. Something I've seen done elsewhere.

And the bridge isn't used more outbound. That traffic has used or will use the bridge inbound too. There's a reason there's two lanes inbound and one outbound.

Mc Love

You misunderstand me, from what I've seen most of the traffic in the mornings heading towards the city (using both inbound lanes) exit onto the dock road.

mart 23

tweek84 wrote: »

Where is the Old ESB premises?

Bishops Quay Dock Road

phog

Mc Love wrote: »

You misunderstand me, from what I've seen most of the traffic in the mornings heading towards the city (using both inbound lanes) exit onto the dock road.

The don't, those that use the left lane and turn out the dock road are are definitely in the minority of those using the left lane and I use that lane nearly every working morning.

I see the cycle bus use the left lane to turn out the dock road but their excuse is it's safer :eek:

martyc5674

phog wrote: »

The don't, those that use the left lane and turn out the dock road are are definitely in the minority of those using the left lane and I use that lane nearly every working morning.

I see the cycle bus use the left lane to turn out the dock road but their excuse is it's safer :eek:

They use the pedestrian crossing before the roundabout to avoid having to use that cycling nightmare of a roundabout.
They merge into the RH lane as they approach the crossing, they are perfectly entitled to change lanes.
If they crossed the bridge in the RH lane there would be 2 issues I could see.

1. Impatient traffic behind them possibly trying to undertake and manoeuvre back in front.
2. There would be fast moving traffic passing the kids on their left and right as they cross, the outbound traffic can be moving pretty fast and often trucks come over that bridge at silly speeds.

The reality is the bridge is not cycling friendly... anything would be an improvement.
Marty.

phog

martyc5674 wrote: »

They use the pedestrian crossing before the roundabout to avoid having to use that cycling nightmare of a roundabout.
They merge into the RH lane as they approach the crossing

They might do so now but they certainly didn't on the two occasions I was behind them - they use the left lane as far as the crossing then stop both lanes of traffic to use the pedestrian crossing to get to the dock road.

They claimed elsewhere they dismounted to use the crossing but they hadn't done that either on the two occasions I saw them.

they are perfectly entitled to change lanes

Are they? At what point should traffic using the left lane use the right lane to turn out the Dock Road? You seem to imply they can do it at any stage but I've seen the gardai make traffic using the left left go up towards Henry St rather than allow them out the Dock Road.

zulutango

Cookiemunster wrote:

The solution isn't, in my opinion, cycle lanes next to traffic. They should be segregated, which isn't possible on the bridge.

It is possible. There's enough space for two footpaths, two vehicle lanes and two segregated cycle lanes.

martyc5674

phog wrote: »

Are they? At what point should traffic using the left lane use the right lane to turn out the Dock Road? You seem to imply they can do it at any stage but I've seen the gardai make traffic using the left left go up towards Henry St rather than allow them out the Dock Road.

Yes you can change lanes on the bridge, same as Henry street or O’Connell street for example.
There are broken lines between the lanes all the way across allowing this manoeuvre provided its done safely.

As long as you are in the correct lane for your intended exit on arrival at the roundabout.

Mc Love

phog wrote: »

The don't, those that use the left lane and turn out the dock road are are definitely in the minority of those using the left lane and I use that lane nearly every working morning.

I used to walk past the roundabout every day for over a year and its definitely not in the minority.

phog wrote: »

I've seen the gardai make traffic using the left left go up towards Henry St rather than allow them out the Dock Road.

Like above, I've never seen a Garda make motorists in the left lane go up Henry st. I've seen them once at the third exit (dock road) writing tickets for people that used the wrong lane. I'd given up telling them about it. It's not far on the people queuing up in the correct lane.

zulutango

Cookiemunster, can you elaborate as to why you think it is not possible to have segregrated cycle lanes on the bridge? There is enough space there, so it is definitely possible.

phog

martyc5674 wrote: »

They use the pedestrian crossing before the roundabout to avoid having to use that cycling nightmare of a roundabout.
They merge into the RH lane as they approach the crossing, they are perfectly entitled to change lanes.

Once again this morning they used the left right up to pedestrian crossing without merging with traffic on the right hand land and once again they didn't dismount to use the crossing

Mc Love wrote: »

I used to walk past the roundabout every day for over a year and its definitely not in the minority.

It absolutely is in the minority, I'll meet you that some morning for an hour and we can do a count with you and if you're correct I'll make a donation to a charity of your choice, if I'm right you make a donation to a charity of my choice.

Like above, I've never seen a Garda make motorists in the left lane go up Henry st.

While it's not a regular thing they've certainly been there.

zulutango

phog wrote: »

Once again this morning they used the left right up to pedestrian crossing without merging with traffic on the right hand land and once again they didn't dismount to use the crossing

These are primary school children being supervised crossing the bridge by adults. It is a very positive initiative. I think you should cut them some slack.