Limerick improvement projects

Poxyshamrock

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I see that the Curragower House redevelopment on Clancy Strand has gotten planning permission. Strangely enough, for all the publicity the plans received last summer, there seems to only have been 2 objections, both from neighbours.

It costs money to object which puts people off. The system needs to change so that anyone can comment and make strong arguments which can sway planning officers to make the right decision.

James Bond Junior

Poxyshamrock wrote: »

It costs money to object which puts people off. The system needs to change so that anyone can comment and make strong arguments which can sway planning officers to make the right decision.

Absolutely does not need to change. If it was free, every crank up and down the country would be objecting. Google Ballinskelligs hotel development to see how non locals objecting to a project has stopped the building of a new hotel which would provide vital jobs and an economic boost to an area in dire need. The local furore is huge. Only people directly affected should be allowed object to projects.

topcat72

Planning notice up on the Opera Site this morning. Finally.

Poxyshamrock

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Absolutely does not need to change. If it was free, every crank up and down the country would be objecting. Google Ballinskelligs hotel development to see how non locals objecting to a project has stopped the building of a new hotel which would provide vital jobs and an economic boost to an area in dire need. The local furore is huge. Only people directly affected should be allowed object to projects.

Just because people object doesnt mean it should be refused. At the end of the day, the decision lies with the authority. Surely it would be no harm if people could objective on a reasonable basis (eg. Heritage, Visual impact, etc) not “I don’t like it”. It’s quite annoying to see all this fuss about projects like the park on Hyde Road or Curragower House when the application has been finalised.

Treepole

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I see that the Curragower House redevelopment on Clancy Strand has gotten planning permission. Strangely enough, for all the publicity the plans received last summer, there seems to only have been 2 objections, both from neighbours.

So they protested on Twitter, setup online petitions but couldn't stump up €20 between them to lodge an objection to the planning. That really sums up social media warriors.

phog

Poxyshamrock wrote: »

Just because people object doesnt mean it should be refused. At the end of the day, the decision lies with the authority. Surely it would be no harm if people could objective on a reasonable basis (eg. Heritage, Visual impact, etc) not “I don’t like it”. It’s quite annoying to see all this fuss about projects like the park on Hyde Road or Curragower House when the application has been finalised.

Aside from a fee there's nothing stopping that fuss being created with an appeal and those appealing might actually achieve something - currently all their doing is beating an empty drum after the planning permission has been granted.

Poxyshamrock

phog wrote: »

Aside from a fee there's nothing stopping that fuss being created with an appeal and those appealing might actually achieve something - currently all their doing is beating an empty drum after the planning permission has been granted.

Yeah, totally agree. Same as the Hyde Road piece of green area.

Mr E

MULTI-million euro plans to effectively double the size of the Castletroy Town Centre have been rejected by An Bord Pleanala. The national appeals body has refused permission for the shopping centre’s expansion, following in the footsteps of planners from Limerick City and County Council.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/371785/expansion-plan-for-out-of-town-limerick-shopping-centre-rejected.html

Whats happening

Seeing the planning application for the Opera Centre in the Limerick Post this weekend and it directs you to their website, there are some very interesting documents up there.. This below is especially.. Images of many of the Rutland / Partick street units
https://www.limerick.ie/sites/default/files/media/documents/2019-03/Opera_Site_Existing_Building_Individual_Records.pdf

tototoe

Whats happening wrote: »

Seeing the planning application for the Opera Centre in the Limerick Post this weekend and it directs you to their website, there are some very interesting documents up there.. This below is especially.. Images of many of the Rutland / Partick street units
https://www.limerick.ie/sites/default/files/media/documents/2019-03/Opera_Site_Existing_Building_Individual_Records.pdf

Good read. Interesting to see the inside of some of the buildings, some I remember well. Not much to save in many of them though.

Hopefully this kicks off quickly.

Eire-Dearg

Amazing how old/rundown the guts of some of those buildings have gotten.

How long are they empty? Apologies if I missed it in the report, it was a bit TL;DR.

zulutango

Treepole wrote: »

So they protested on Twitter, setup online petitions but couldn't stump up €20 between them to lodge an objection to the planning. That really sums up social media warriors.

I don't disagree with the sentiment, but just want to clarify that there wasn't any petition last summer. The petition was set up recently after it was given planning permission. The thing about social media is that it's easy to rush to judgement and throw in an angry comment. It doesn't have much value. Having said that, many people don't know how to engage with the process. And it isn't easy either. You have to go to the planning office during working hours and view the file or go online and use the very cumbersome planning portal which shows you images of the files, many of which haven't been scanned well. The process could certainly be improved. Personally, I think that the plan for Curraghower House is fairly poor and the client and architect could have done a much better job.

keane2097

zulutango wrote: »

I don't disagree with the sentiment, but just want to clarify that there wasn't any petition last summer. The petition was set up recently after it was given planning permission. The thing about social media is that it's easy to rush to judgement and throw in an angry comment. It doesn't have much value. Having said that, many people don't know how to engage with the process. And it isn't easy either. You have to go to the planning office during working hours and view the file or go online and use the very cumbersome planning portal which shows you images of the files, many of which haven't been scanned well. The process could certainly be improved. Personally, I think that the plan for Curraghower House is fairly poor and the client and architect could have done a much better job.

There was also this tweet which people may have seen:

https://twitter.com/AnTaisce_Limk/status/1087084991794896897

My reading of that when I saw it was that the application was as good as rejected.

At the time I looked at the riverside vista that exists currently, looked at the proposed replacement for the house to be knocked with something that looks like it was vomited up out of a soviet architect's nightmare and thought 'that will obviously not pass whatever assessment planning officers do'.

Obviously I was wrong, but for future reference, is it expected that locals like me with no architectural background write to the council in some form to say something along the lines of 'don't build that it's ****ing rotten looking and will destroy the beautiful riverside by sticking out like a broken thumb. The cladding will be gone manky greeny brown and the balcony glass will be smeared and hanging off within two years?'

Surely someone is paid to look at a plan and notice things like that already? Or is the default just that any old garbage can be slapped up as long as no bored layman is paying enough attention to object?

FWIW, if An Taisce object I will have no problem stumping up the €50 to make an 'observation' to the effect of what I've said above, but it's hard to believe that me as a private person saying it would or should make any difference, whatever stage of the process I pipe up at.

keane2097

By the way, I don't exactly love this notion of buying up an old property and letting it lie idle and rot for several years so you can come along later and say 'it's ****ed, we'll have to knock it and put up something horrible instead of it, what a pity'.

Is there somewhere I can object to that?

zulutango

keane2097 wrote: »

Surely someone is paid to look at a plan and notice things like that already? Or is the default just that any old garbage can be slapped up as long as no bored layman is paying enough attention to object?

It's very much the latter.

keane2097 wrote: »

FWIW, if An Taisce object I will have no problem stumping up the €50 to make an 'observation' to the effect of what I've said above, but it's hard to believe that me as a private person saying it would or should make any difference, whatever stage of the process I pipe up at.

As a citizen you are a stakeholder and your voice should count. Groups like An Taisce are a good way for ordinary citizens to get involved in the protection of the built and natural heritage. They will have experts as well as lay folks like yourself.

keane2097

zulutango wrote: »

It's very much the latter.



As a citizen you are a stakeholder and your voice should count. Groups like An Taisce are a good way for ordinary citizens to get involved in the protection of the built and natural heritage. They will have experts as well as lay folks like yourself.

I just meant my opinion shouldn't make a difference because anything I have to say should be as plain as day to someone paid to assess these applications. Something like a petition that says '1000 normal people from around the city agree/disagree with this assessment' actually makes more sense than 1000 different layman objections with variations of 'have you seen the state of what you are after approving?'

damowill

https://www.limerickpost.ie/2019/03/27/limerick-councillor-john-gilligan-takes-last-stand-on-moving-statue/?fbclid=IwAR1JiJEgIZ4fAvW8Dr9tXR3ZELhDjDV-RAbmciuPxscGOug-mJfVqQ3_zbI

There shouldnt even be a debate on it. Patrick Sarsfield is a huge part of Limerick history & the statue deserves a rightful place in the centre of Limerick.

Perhaps we can do a swap with the Terry Wogan statue!!

damowill

Does anyone know what is going in across from the Park-Way?

Cookiemunster

damowill wrote: »

Does anyone know what is going in across from the Park-Way?

A petrol station.

Mc Love

damowill wrote: »

Does anyone know what is going in across from the Park-Way?

Fuel Station

Poxyshamrock

damowill wrote: »

Does anyone know what is going in across from the Park-Way?

Service station.

zulutango

Will it have charging stations for electric vehicles?

kilburn

zulutango wrote:

Will it have charging stations for electric vehicles?

Really is that the concern here more jobs win win

mart 23

Is there any start on the Coonagh service/petrol station. ?

Eire-Dearg

Is there no limit on the amount of petrol stations required in a 1km radius?

There's the one on the way into town, the Supermacs on the way to Groody, the one across the road from that.

Vanquished

kilburn wrote: »

Really is that the concern here more jobs win win

You should be writing for the Limerick Leader with a mindset like that.

The fact that a petrol station is being spoken about in this thread says it all really. Apartments should've been built on this site. There's a huge amount of waste ground in this area that needs to be better utilised.

Cookiemunster

Vanquished wrote: »

You should be writing for the Limerick Leader with a mindset like that.

The fact that a petrol station is being spoken about in this thread says it all really. Apartments should've been built on this site. There's a huge amount of waste ground in this area that needs to be better utilised.

The thread title is a little off really as every development is discussed in here.

But on your point, a developer thought that they'd make more money opening a petrol station. There isn't money in building apartment blocks and until the government does something about building costs that's not going to change.

geotrig

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The thread title is a little off really as every development is discussed in here.

But on your point, a developer thought that they'd make more money opening a petrol station. There isn't money in building apartment blocks and until the government does something about building costs that's not going to change.

Also look at the extra cost a lot of apartment developments have faced in recent years no one wants that their needs to be increased.

damowill

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The thread title is a little off really as every development is discussed in here.

But on your point, a developer thought that they'd make more money opening a petrol station. There isn't money in building apartment blocks and until the government does something about building costs that's not going to change.

Agree. Developers are opportunistic.

Residential space is much more expensive than commercial. There has been a huge outcry on why there was limited residential space as part of the Opera project. The CC are getting more bang for their buck going the commercial route, in the short (cost to build/fit), medium and long term (rent/rates etc). Unfortunately apartment blocks are not financially viable to build yet the simple fact is we need to build up. The Government and LA need to do something to change that.

mdmix

damowill wrote: »

Agree. Developers are opportunistic.
Unfortunately apartment blocks are not financially viable to build yet the simple fact is we need to build up. The Government and LA need to do something to change that.

the Irish times did a piece around 18 months ago which showed mid rise residential buildings up to 7 stories can be as profitable as your standard semi d's. the reason developers choose to ignore mid density is that low density is more convenient. you can employ a handful of builders on site, tipping away at 6 houses at a time and selling as you go. with apartments you have to take a loan and don't get any money back until after its finished 2-3 years later.

the council p*ssed away a golden opportunity, in the middle of a housing crisis, to build mid density in the city centre and transform it for the better by being a living city.