Limerick improvement projects

source

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The traffic layout was changed years ago to allow for the full pedestrianisation of O'Connell St. https://www.live95fm.ie/news/new-traffic-system-for-limerick-city/
We're not getting full pedestrianisation though, as there will still be at least one lane for traffic along the whole street.

As for Wickham St, how did those motorists get by for the month that Wickham St was closed? Did they by any chance use a different route that didn't lead to gridlock?

An idea was floated and 1 piece of road was built, which is currently at capacity with existing traffic without closing O'Connell St. The orbital route was not fully realised or implemented. It sas a good idea, but again poorly executed.

Cookiemunster

source wrote: »

An idea was floated and 1 piece of road was built, which is currently at capacity with existing traffic without closing O'Connell St. The orbital route was not fully realised or implemented. It sas a good idea, but again poorly executed.

Except O'Connell St in not closing to traffic. It's to be reduced to one lane plus a bus lane. The orbital route that was put in place is the fully realised scheme. No other roads were planned to be built.

keane2097

source wrote: »

I do, going there, but coming back it's unavoidable without a ridiculous detour. I'm all for pedestrianisation of O'Connell St, but only as part of an overall traffic management plan with some actual foresight and thought put into it.

The knee jerk reaction method of planning our city is well known for is not the way forward.

Ideally, I would like to see the LNDR completed, a full review of the one way system in Limerick city center (to facilitate pedestrianisation), and the results of that review implemented and tested before removing traffic from O'Connell St.

The idea of pedestrianisation without planning for where the traffic would go is ridiculous. Of course our city shouldn't be dictated by the car, but we need to correctly reroute the traffic before closing the city centre to cars. The idea of just sending all the cars up William St around a long detour isn't the way to do it.

Sorry, my post was pretty unclear - those three route alternatives are the way back from Corbally to SCR. Anyway, that's only a matter of interest.

I think everyone would agree with you that an overall traffic management plan with foresight and thought put into it would be a requirement for pedestrianisation.

You can see a fairly strong element where people with their cars are not only looking for an alternative before they will countenance the idea, but laughably feel entitled to a quicker alternative if you don't mind. That attitude is very annoying I feel.

But yeah, it would of course need some good planning.

keane2097

Like, I would encourage people to ask themselves a question:

Is there any level of personal inconvenience that I would be willing to accept in order to help facilitate a better public realm for everyone?

I think an honest answer to that, even just in one's own mind, is an important place to start this conversation from. I'm confident there are people out there who won't answer it honestly even to themselves.

boetstark

Those clowns in city hall would be far better spending tax payers money on maintaining the infrastructure they are supposed to maintain.
Public areas / green areas in dooradoyle and raheen look like ****e. Grass uncut and weeds a foot tall. I live in the GRANGE and we have to cut our own grass , spray weeds and generally clean the area.
This **** wouldn't be tolerated in any other country.

source

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Except O'Connell St in not closing to traffic. It's to be reduced to one lane plus a bus lane. The orbital route that was put in place is the fully realised scheme. No other roads were planned to be built.

No its not, but it should be.

The orbital route is a joke, the put a link between Mulgrave St and Roxboro Rd and tarted up the road surface on Sexton St.

The rest of the route, which if you go back far enough on here I was talking up, had no improvement works done, not even a sign to inform people that there is an orbital route or how to access it.

If it was implemented correctly that would be one thing, but it was a half arsed attempt as always.

Edit :

The proposed Orbital Route around the city centre will create a mainly one-way two lane clockwise traffic system that will be divided into three sections: Northern, Central and Southern.

The Northern Section travels along: Arthurs Quay, Charlotte's Quay, Clare Street, Saint Lelia Street, New Road and Cathedral Place.

And the Central Section travels along: Sarsfield Street, William Street, Upper William Street, Sexton Street, Roches Street, Shannon Street and Henry Street.

The Southern Section travels along Parnell Street, Mallow Street and Henry Street.

This was the plan for the orbital route, a 2 lane mainly one way clockwise traffic system, none of the 2 way streets were converted to one way and no effort to implement the clockwise traffic management plan was introduced.

Cookiemunster

boetstark wrote: »

Those clowns in city hall would be far better spending tax payers money on maintaining the infrastructure they are supposed to maintain.
Public areas / green areas in dooradoyle and raheen look like ****e. Grass uncut and weeds a foot tall. I live in the GRANGE and we have to cut our own grass , spray weeds and generally clean the area.
This **** wouldn't be tolerated in any other country.

Has the area been taken in charge or is it still under control of the developer?

https://www.limerick.ie/council/services/planning-and-property/taking-charge-housing-estates/taking-charge

Until it's taken in charge it's not the councils responsibility. It's the same process in every county in the country.

Plus there's also the councils delay in grass cutting to help pollinators such as bees. This is also a national scheme. https://www.limerick.ie/council/newsroom/news/were-bee-ing-friendly-so-were-delaying-our-grass-cutting-programme-slightly

source

keane2097 wrote: »

Like, I would encourage people to ask themselves a question:

Is there any level of personal inconvenience that I would be willing to accept in order to help facilitate a better public realm for everyone?

I think an honest answer to that, even just in one's own mind, is an important place to start this conversation from. I'm confident there are people out there who won't answer it honestly even to themselves.

Personally, I walk almost everywhere and only drive at the weekend. I would have no issue with full pedestrianisation of O'Connell St AND Catherine St, between William St and Cecil St, once implemented correctly.

I don't think that those who have no choice but to drive should be punished though so I think that a balanced approach is what is required.

boetstark

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Has the area been taken in charge or is it still under control of the developer?

https://www.limerick.ie/council/services/planning-and-property/taking-charge-housing-estates/taking-charge

Until it's taken in charge it's not the councils responsibility. It's the same process in every county in the country.

Plus there's also the councils delay in grass cutting to help pollinators such as bees. This is also a national scheme. https://www.limerick.ie/council/newsroom/news/were-bee-ing-friendly-so-were-delaying-our-grass-cutting-programme-slightly

In council charge for over 4 years. This isnt a today or yesterday occurrence, this is happening year in year out. Galling thing is the amount of LPT we pay with zero services in return. I have lived in other countries and I see how public areas are maintained. It's crazy the wastage of public funds.

Cookiemunster

boetstark wrote: »

In council charge for over 4 years. This isnt a today or yesterday occurrence, this is happening year in year out. Galling thing is the amount of LPT we pay with zero services in return. I have lived in other countries and I see how public areas are maintained. It's crazy the wastage of public funds.

Maybe you should contact the council to find out why it isn't being cut then. Where I live and where my parents live (different areas) gets cut regularly by the council.

damowill

TPMP wrote: »

So going from the city centre, how would somebody get to, say, the northside of Limerick without using O'Connell St that's quicker?

I personally work in town and commute to Clare. If I didn't take O'Connell St it would add a silly amount of time to my journey so I'm looking forward to hearing your suggestions.

I think you are assuming that O'Connell street will be fully pedestrianised? Its 800m long which obviously would have major impact on traffic so there is no way that will ever happen. Thats a misunderstanding from some people.

What may happen is 2 or 3 blocks of O'Connell street be pedestrianised.
Blocks From William st to Roches st. I think this can be acheived easily without major traffic disruption.

The big issue is cutting off traffic from Roches st imo.

You could possibly pedestrianise the block from Roches st to Cecil st but you'd need to allow traffic down from Roches st but stop from turning left onto O'Connell st, so they would only be able to continue down to Shannon st - Henry St - Harveys Quay/Howleys Quay, thus allowing you to cross Shannon Bridge or Sarsfield Bridge.

Cars coming from Patrick st that want to go to O' Connell avenue would have to turn at
William st -> Gerald Grffin st - Roches st or William st -> Gerald Grffin st - Parnell st - Mallow st.

phog

damowill wrote: »

I think you are assuming that O'Connell street will be fully pedestrianised? Its 800m long which obviously would have major impact on traffic so there is no way that will ever happen. Thats a misunderstanding from some people.

What may happen is 2 or 3 blocks of O'Connell street be pedestrianised.
Blocks From William st to Roches st. I think this can be acheived easily without major traffic disruption.

The big issue is cutting off traffic from Roches st imo.

You could possibly pedestrianise the block from Roches st to Cecil st but you'd need to allow traffic down from Roches st but stop from turning left onto O'Connell st, so they would only be able to continue down to Shannon st - Henry St - Harveys Quay/Howleys Quay, thus allowing you to cross Shannon Bridge or Sarsfield Bridge.

Cars coming from Patrick st that want to go to O' Connell avenue would have to turn at
William st -> Gerald Grffin st - Roches st or William st -> Gerald Grffin st - Parnell st - Mallow st.

So to take traffic off O'Connell St we're going send even more traffic up William St which is probably a busier shopping street.

damowill

phog wrote: »

So to take traffic off O'Connell St we're going send even more traffic up William St which is probably a busier shopping street.

People would still be able to drive IN and OUT of the City Centre. Just 2 blocks would be closed. If you are coming to the city centre via Patrick st then you are already in the city centre, so closing those blocks stops those using it as a rat run.

A lot of people want pedestrianisation. I am one of them but only a section. Closing two blocks to traffic would create a 'City Centre', as the section between William & Roches, would intersect with Bedford row and Thomas street. It may then provide the opportunity to pedestrianise one section of Catherine st (from roches to thomas st) and upper thomas st.

Roches street and O' Connell street (from Roches/Cecil st to O' Connell avenue) would not be closed, so people in town can use O' Connell street to go home or onto their next journey.

phog

damowill wrote: »

People would still be able to drive IN and OUT of the City Centre. Just 2 blocks would be closed. If you are coming to the city centre via Patrick st then you are already in the city centre, so closing those blocks stops those using it as a rat run.

A lot of people want pedestrianisation. I am one of them but only a section. Closing two blocks to traffic would create a 'City Centre', as the section between William & Roches, would intersect with Bedford row and Thomas street. It may then provide the opportunity to pedestrianise one section of Catherine st (from roches to thomas st) and upper thomas st.

Roches street and O' Connell street (from Roches/Cecil st to O' Connell avenue) would not be closed, so people in town can use O' Connell street to go home or onto their next journey.

If you pedestianise one block or ten blocks you're preventing traffic from flowing through the city - this will send a queue of cars off on a orbital inner city route. Just look at the chaos on Roches St, Shannon Street and Henry St for the few weeks that Wichham St was closed. Added to this you have some people that don't want the LNDR either which imho would take some pressure off city centre traffic.

The mayor recently talked about knocking BT and having a plaza there and he was scoffed at, well if we're going to pedestrianise a block then why not create a plaza there.

tototoe

phog wrote: »

If you pedestianise one block or ten blocks you're preventing traffic from flowing through the city - this will send a queue of cars off on a orbital inner city route. Just look at the chaos on Roches St, Shannon Street and Henry St for the few weeks that Wichham St was closed. Added to this you have some people that don't want the LNDR either which imho would take some pressure off city centre traffic.

The mayor recently talked about knocking BT and having a plaza there and he was scoffed at, well if we're going to pedestrianise a block then why not create a plaza there.

Personally didn't notice much issue when Wickham street was closed. Short delays rather than chaos imo but whatever.

Maybe I'm lucky, but I really don't see a massive issue with traffic anywhere in limerick apart from around the technological park in plassey. And the city centre makes no difference to that. Even peak time last Friday got around the city no problems at all. I seem to be in a minority but I don't see a congestion issue in Limerick

Mc Love

phog wrote: »

If you pedestianise one block or ten blocks you're preventing traffic from flowing through the city - this will send a queue of cars off on a orbital inner city route. Just look at the chaos on Roches St, Shannon Street and Henry St for the few weeks that Wichham St was closed. Added to this you have some people that don't want the LNDR either which imho would take some pressure off city centre traffic.

The mayor recently talked about knocking BT and having a plaza there and he was scoffed at, well if we're going to pedestrianise a block then why not create a plaza there.

The city streets arent for moving motor vehicle traffic through quickly though. The vehicles are simply using it as a traffic sewer at the moment and they bring nothing to the city but pollution and congestion.

damowill

phog wrote: »

If you pedestianise one block or ten blocks you're preventing traffic from flowing through the city - this will send a queue of cars off on a orbital inner city route. Just look at the chaos on Roches St, Shannon Street and Henry St for the few weeks that Wichham St was closed. Added to this you have some people that don't want the LNDR either which imho would take some pressure off city centre traffic.

The mayor recently talked about knocking BT and having a plaza there and he was scoffed at, well if we're going to pedestrianise a block then why not create a plaza there.

With the current plans to reduce to one lane, i think we could see gridlock on O'Connell street & Patrick st and beyond. Its trying to please everyone with this 'shared surface'. Ultimately there will be no winners.

That orbital route isnt a bad suggestion. As is, if you are on o connell ave and want to get to, lets say Easons, you have to drive down o connell ave, go down mallow street, turn onto henry street, go around arthurs quay and up patrick street before getting there. but nobody complains about it because thats the way it is.

as said im not in favour of fully pedestrianising the street but partial pedestrianising would have great benefits. engineers get paid to solve these issues, so maybe some streets could be changed to 2way, as most in the centre are 1 way. i dont know what but there must be a solution somewhere

if you go to any city in europe, you find city centres with good public realms. We dont have that in Limerick

TPMP

damowill wrote: »

With the current plans to reduce to one lane, i think we could see gridlock on O'Connell street & Patrick st and beyond. Its trying to please everyone with this 'shared surface'. Ultimately there will be no winners.

That orbital route isnt a bad suggestion. As is, if you are on o connell ave and want to get to, lets say Easons, you have to drive down o connell ave, go down mallow street, turn onto henry street, go around arthurs quay and up patrick street before getting there. but nobody complains about it because thats the way it is.

as said im not in favour of fully pedestrianising the street but partial pedestrianising would have great benefits. engineers get paid to solve these issues, so maybe some streets could be changed to 2way, as most in the centre are 1 way. i dont know what but there must be a solution somewhere

if you go to any city in europe, you find city centres with good public realms. We dont have that in Limerick

The problem is, Henry street has 3 lanes of traffic going the one direction. O'Connell street with it's 2 lanes the other. How can you have such an imbalance if O'Connell gets reduced to 1? It just doesn't make sense.

source

TPMP wrote: »

The problem is, Henry street has 3 lanes of traffic going the one direction. O'Connell street with it's 2 lanes the other. How can you have such an imbalance if O'Connell gets reduced to 1? It just doesn't make sense.

If the orbital route had been correctly implemented as per my previous post, it would actually work fine as in essence they would have created 3 super blocks.

Instead they've rowed back on the proposal to pedestrianise, have forgotten about the orbital route and think that changing a traffic lane to a bus lane will solve all the problems.

It's more lazy, ineffective and uninspired thinking from the council.

keane2097

By the way the idea that the bus lane won't be full of ***** in cars is some laugh.

C.F. the number of ***** parked in bus stops every day. I would be fully in favour of on the spot extermination of these pond-dwellers, but would settle for on the spot fines.

source

keane2097 wrote: »

By the way the idea that the bus lane won't be full of ***** in cars is some laugh.

C.F. the number of ***** parked in bus stops every day. I would be fully in favour of on the spot extermination of these pond-dwellers, but would settle for on the spot fines.

To be fair, while there's a whole heap of people parking in bus stops around town, drivers seem to respect bus lanes. Which is a bit odd to be fair.

Mc Love

https://twitter.com/gerinclare/status/1156641680319287296?s=09

This sums up the traffic sewer that is O'Connell st at the moment

phog

tototoe wrote: »

Personally didn't notice much issue when Wickham street was closed. Short delays rather than chaos imo but whatever.

Maybe I'm lucky, but I really don't see a massive issue with traffic anywhere in limerick apart from around the technological park in plassey. And the city centre makes no difference to that. Even peak time last Friday got around the city no problems at all. I seem to be in a minority but I don't see a congestion issue in Limerick

Roches St was gridlocked for most of the working day, cars exiting Anne St Car Park were pinned in, almost impossible to get out of it at peak exit times.

I don't see a congestion issue in Limerick

I agree but I don't see why some seem to strive to change that.

phog

damowill wrote: »

With the current plans to reduce to one lane, i think we could see gridlock on O'Connell street & Patrick st and beyond. Its trying to please everyone with this 'shared surface'. Ultimately there will be no winners.

That orbital route isnt a bad suggestion. As is, if you are on o connell ave and want to get to, lets say Easons, you have to drive down o connell ave, go down mallow street, turn onto henry street, go around arthurs quay and up patrick street before getting there. but nobody complains about it because thats the way it is.

as said im not in favour of fully pedestrianising the street but partial pedestrianising would have great benefits. engineers get paid to solve these issues, so maybe some streets could be changed to 2way, as most in the centre are 1 way. i dont know what but there must be a solution somewhere

if you go to any city in europe, you find city centres with good public realms. We dont have that in Limerick

Why quote me and bold that piece about one lane?

See the post I replied to.

Mc Love

phog wrote: »

Roches St was gridlocked for most of the working day, cars exiting Anne St Car Park were pinned in, almost impossible to get out of it at peak exit times.

The solution isn't more lanes or more roads though.

phog

Mc Love wrote: »

The solution isn't more lanes or more roads though.

That opinion doesn't take from the fact that the streets I mentioned had extra traffic due to the roadworks on Wickham St

rebs23

Just wondering does anyone have an update on projects under construction or about to commence construction.

johnnyryan89

tototoe wrote: »

Personally didn't notice much issue when Wickham street was closed. Short delays rather than chaos imo but whatever.

Maybe I'm lucky, but I really don't see a massive issue with traffic anywhere in limerick apart from around the technological park in plassey. And the city centre makes no difference to that. Even peak time last Friday got around the city no problems at all. I seem to be in a minority but I don't see a congestion issue in Limerick

People love to exaggerate how bad traffic is, same when it comes to parking or the cost of parking. I also didn't notice much issue when Wickham St was closed except for rush hour but it's rush hour and you have to except bad traffic at rush hour. Plus even with Wickham St closed and at its worse the traffic was still better than the other Irish cities.

lazyman

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/435314/m-s-move-set-to-pave-the-way-for-400-new-jobs-in-limerick.html


Some more information on M&S and Arthur's Quay

Cookiemunster

It's all still a bit vague. They need to release some renders.