Limerick improvement projects

Vanquished

Well, a partially built project was completed by a 100% Council owned entity with €18 million in financing provided by the Council. The building has capacity for 750 workers and Limerick 2030 never turned down an opportunity to tell anybody who would listen how transformative this development would be for Limerick city centre. The sole objective was to maximise the employment boost to the city centre.

What has ultimately happened is that 90% of the building has been let to a company which currently employs 80 staff in Limerick, with tentative plans to perhaps double that over time but it's far from certain when that will occur. Incidentally the company as a whole employs 225 people worldwide. The remaining space is still to be filled. Despite the fact that we were assured the high specification of the completed development would ensure that there would be no shortage of takers. Limerick 2030 & Limerick Council are little more than glorified spin machines but I don't think the ultimate impact of this project can be spun as anything other than a major disappointment.

CosmicFool

Vanquished wrote: »

Well, a partially built project was completed by a 100% Council owned entity with €18 million in financing provided by the Council. The building has capacity for 750 workers and Limerick 2030 never turned down an opportunity to tell anybody who would listen how transformative this development would be for Limerick city centre. The sole objective was to maximise the employment boost to the city centre.

What has ultimately happened is that 90% of the building has been let to a company which currently employs 80 staff in Limerick, with tentative plans to perhaps double that over time but it's far from certain when that will occur. Incidentally the company as a whole employs 225 people worldwide. The remaining space is still to be filled. Despite the fact that we were assured the high specification of the completed development would ensure that there would be no shortage of takers. Limerick 2030 & Limerick Council are little more than glorified spin machines but I don't think the ultimate impact of this project can be spun as anything other than a major disappointment.

Spot on

Strettie11

Vanquished wrote: »

Well, a partially built project was completed by a 100% Council owned entity with €18 million in financing provided by the Council. The building has capacity for 750 workers and Limerick 2030 never turned down an opportunity to tell anybody who would listen how transformative this development would be for Limerick city centre. The sole objective was to maximise the employment boost to the city centre.

What has ultimately happened is that 90% of the building has been let to a company which currently employs 80 staff in Limerick, with tentative plans to perhaps double that over time but it's far from certain when that will occur. Incidentally the company as a whole employs 225 people worldwide. The remaining space is still to be filled. Despite the fact that we were assured the high specification of the completed development would ensure that there would be no shortage of takers. Limerick 2030 & Limerick Council are little more than glorified spin machines but I don't think the ultimate impact of this project can be spun as anything other than a major disappointment.

Best summary I have read of this development

Also council provided an additional 13 million loan to complete fit out with no debate. Seems strange now that Nordic Aviation seems to have a long term approach to fully occupying

rebs23

Strettie11 wrote: »

Best summary I have read of this development

Also council provided an additional 13 million loan to complete fit out with no debate. Seems strange now that Nordic Aviation seems to have a long term approach to fully occupying

In excess of €20 Million was spent by the Council to complete an office building with no demand. This is public money.
Most of the office is vacant and Nordic have probably secured the rest of the building for zero with the ability to sub let if they can secure tenants. Limerick 2030 had over 3 years to try and secure tenants and failed. What are the terms of the lease to Nordic? If they secure tenants do they keep all the rent? Have they secured the rest of the building for free?
How much of a loss is Limerick 2030 making?
Why are they proceeding to plan for more offices in the Opera site?
What is the effect of Limerick 2030 on private sector investment?
Why do they have so many sites that are derelict and vacant?

kilburn

Strettie11 wrote: »

Best summary I have read of this development

Also council provided an additional 13 million loan to complete fit out with no debate. Seems strange now that Nordic Aviation seems to have a long term approach to fully occupying

Nordic were never going to occupy all of that building or increase their headcount substantially.

Aircraft leasing companies like to have marquee buildings as their HQ its all about show, it is a massive industry and they have to keep up with competitors.

Headcount is something that is always kept to a bare minimum in that industry.

Glenomra

rebs23 wrote: »

In excess of €20 Million was spent by the Council to complete an office building with no demand. This is public money.
Most of the office is vacant and Nordic have probably secured the rest of the building for zero with the ability to sub let if they can secure tenants. Limerick 2030 had over 3 years to try and secure tenants and failed. What are the terms of the lease to Nordic? If they secure tenants do they keep all the rent? Have they secured the rest of the building for free?
How much of a loss is Limerick 2030 making?
Why are they proceeding to plan for more offices in the Opera site?
What is the effect of Limerick 2030 on private sector investment?
Why do they have so many sites that are derelict and vacant?

No mystery why we have so many derelict sites. No developer wants to build in Limerick. That's why we are dependent on limerick 2030 whatever faults they might have. There's nobody else interested in building in the city so their activity has zero impact on private sector investment. It doesn't exist for the city.

dave 27

kilburn wrote: »

Nordic were never going to occupy all of that building or increase their headcount substantially.

Aircraft leasing companies like to have marquee buildings as their HQ its all about show, it is a massive industry and they have to keep up with competitors.

Headcount is something that is always kept to a bare minimum in that industry.

Thats a shame, so will they literally be leasing half the building without even using all the space? Seems like such a waste of space and money.

Is there any indications of a tenant for the rest of the block?

dominatinMC

Vanquished wrote: »

Well, a partially built project was completed by a 100% Council owned entity with €18 million in financing provided by the Council. The building has capacity for 750 workers and Limerick 2030 never turned down an opportunity to tell anybody who would listen how transformative this development would be for Limerick city centre. The sole objective was to maximise the employment boost to the city centre.

What has ultimately happened is that 90% of the building has been let to a company which currently employs 80 staff in Limerick, with tentative plans to perhaps double that over time but it's far from certain when that will occur. Incidentally the company as a whole employs 225 people worldwide. The remaining space is still to be filled. Despite the fact that we were assured the high specification of the completed development would ensure that there would be no shortage of takers. Limerick 2030 & Limerick Council are little more than glorified spin machines but I don't think the ultimate impact of this project can be spun as anything other than a major disappointment.

I didn't realise this was the case. It's shocking really and the fact that Limerick 2030/LCC could not secure another/more tenants is a damning indictment of their prowess (or maybe it's just a poor reflection of this city :eek:). If companies can't be attracted to Limerick during this current economic "boom", then I worry for when the inevitible crash comes.

keane2097

As mentioned it's the fact that they are turning the Opera Centre into essentially another big load of offices that is the most bizarre thing.

dave 27

keane2097 wrote: »

As mentioned it's the fact that they are turning the Opera Centre into essentially another big load of offices that is the most bizarre thing.

Although you need to have the office space available for growth, if its not built you cant even facilitate it. Id imagine with the publicity of the Opera Centre when it goes ahead being such a catalist for growth it could be the major development the city needs to get the ball rolling on attracting new companies to the city, this would need to be advertised well and have local politicians pushing for the Limerick region as a place to invest for it to happen.

If a company can see a city growing with this development it becomes a lot more attractive to invest in

mdmix

dominatinMC wrote: »

I didn't realise this was the case. It's shocking really and the fact that Limerick 2030/LCC could not secure another/more tenants is a damning indictment of their prowess (or maybe it's just a poor reflection of this city :eek:). If companies can't be attracted to Limerick during this current economic "boom", then I worry for when the inevitible crash comes.

The whole 2030 project was poorly planned and this is just the first in a series of problems yet to develop. The plan is based around refurbishing buildings to make the city visually more appealing (to the taste of someone unknown persons in the council).

If the plan was to maximize the potential of the city to the benefit of the people then measurable objectives could have been identified and it would be clear when/if targets have been met.

Instead success is measured on weather a building is completed and if an arbitrary amount of jobs have been created. Incidentally limerick 2030 have patted themselves on the back for reaching said target number of jobs, before any of their projects were completed! This in spite of the fact we are recovering barely on par with the other cities who have reached similar levels of job growth.

I was a big believer in this project at the start, when I thought the plans were still being developed. 5 years on it appears this city is being developed without a city development plan. The 2030 project has grown legs and needs to be re-examined or it risks holding back any private development.

A large section of the city will be torn down in the next few years (project opera, revenue buildings and possibly Arthur’s quay) on the basis that it will look nicer when done(in someone’s opinion), with little or any functional improvement. This is complete madness!

Project opera looks likely to go ahead next year, and while the council, who own 2030, will celebrate this finally going ahead - they should be held in contempt for keeping this site empty for what will be 7 years at that stage.

dave 27

Any idea on when we might see what is proposed for Arthurs Quay SC?

knipex

dave 27 wrote: »

Thats a shame, so will they literally be leasing half the building without even using all the space? Seems like such a waste of space and money.

Is there any indications of a tenant for the rest of the block?

Rent is paid by Sq foot (or meter) not be headcount.

Doesnt matter if they have 10 or 500 employees in the space they pay the same rent.

There is a huge drive to try and bring office workers into Limerick City but there was (and still is since most of the garden is leased) no large scale modern office space available.

There is a demand for office space in Limerick, hence all the recently constructed office buildings in Castletroy and Ballysimon Road.

The only 2 relatively large scale office developments in Limerick city in the last 6 or 7 years have been the Gardens (which is 90% leased) and Thomas St where Uber are.. So there is obviously demand..

knipex

mdmix wrote: »

Project opera looks likely to go ahead next year, and while the council, who own 2030, will celebrate this finally going ahead - they should be held in contempt for keeping this site empty for what will be 7 years at that stage.

What choice was there ?? There is a report available online looking at the conditions of the buildings where the Opera Center will be. They are in ****e state..

The council spent hundreds of thousands on emergency remedial repairs to stop them collapsing. Making them habitable, let alone suitable for retail or commercial would have cost millions, all for temporary occupation and they would still be old ramshackly buildings.

The only solution for that area is total redevelopment. Alot for those buildings will be knocked with only the facade retained.

Arthurs Quay is not fit for purpose and hasn't been for a long time. The amount of people complaining about it on this forum is evidence of that. Its needs a complete renovation and a private company have decided to do so. Not the council, not the state.

kilburn

Thomas St Centre is 11 or 12 years built

mgbgt1978

rebs23 wrote: »

In excess of €20 Million was spent by the Council to complete an office building with no demand. This is public money.
Most of the office is vacant and Nordic have probably secured the rest of the building for zero with the ability to sub let if they can secure tenants. Limerick 2030 had over 3 years to try and secure tenants and failed. What are the terms of the lease to Nordic? If they secure tenants do they keep all the rent? Have they secured the rest of the building for free?
How much of a loss is Limerick 2030 making?
Why are they proceeding to plan for more offices in the Opera site?
What is the effect of Limerick 2030 on private sector investment?
Why do they have so many sites that are derelict and vacant?

Not forgetting that Nordic will be simply moving out of the Aidan Brook's Development a block away. So, it's not like the Council have enticed 'new business' to Limerick.....they have just poached a Tenant from an existing Landlord.

kilburn

Thought Nordic were over Jack Fitzgeralds electrical renting from a few different landlords?

Crazy really when one company has multiple landlords in the same building

mgbgt1978

Correct. They are above Jack Fitzgerald's...with two separate doors . But that whole Block was Aidan Brook's original Big Break.

kilburn

But he wasn't the landlord he didn't own the building at any point while they were tenants.

So it's worse council pinched a tenant from 3 other landlords

mgbgt1978

Ah no, you're right Kilburn. I was just confirming the fact the The Gardens hasn't done anything to enhance the Business rental take-up in the city.:)

madbeanman

But if there is no incoming private sector development in the area of grade a retail then what is the council supposed to do? The rental market in limerick lags waaaaay behind Dublin, Cork or Galway. I guess the idea is attract some overseas companies to create more of a daytime economy in the city and hopefully re-invigorate everything else and encourage more private investment. Like I am happy they are doing at least something

Bored Accountant

kilburn wrote: »

So it's worse council pinched a tenant from 3 other landlords

Won't that now give the opportunity to another business to take over that office space?
Maybe even 3 different companies that don't need massive office space but somewhere small to build from?

It will hardly sit vacant for ever just because Nordic are moving out?

kilburn

Bored Accountant wrote:

It will hardly sit vacant for ever just because Nordic are moving out?

Never said it would.

knipex

kilburn wrote: »

Thomas St Centre is 11 or 12 years built

And sat in the hands of the hands of the banks \ NAMA during the recession. I know a number of companies didn't choose Limerick to locate in solely due to a lack of quality large office space within the city. Some moved out to plassey because there was no other option.

My only concern re city center office space is parking availability and planning restrictions re parking spaces re office space. However in saying that, increases in well paid employment within the city will drive up the requirement for quality accommodation within the city center. which should drive investment in refurbishing many of the run down beautiful Georgian building in the city to incorporate QUALITY apartments.

The city center has had no significant private sector investment for a long time, the opera center has already driven the badly needed redevelopment of Arthur's Quay. Limerick has soo much potential to be a modern, thriving livable city, much more so than Galway, for decades this has been squandered. Limerick 2030 is an attempt to address this by bringing back people into the city, and should act as the anchor for private sector development.

Also remember that Limerick 2030 is a a commercial entity, it has to have a viable business plan and pay for its self. its not a quango following council and state funds. it has to wash its own face. The Gardens is its first real project to be completed and is its first real revenue source.

kilburn

knipex wrote:

And sat in the hands of the hands of the banks \ NAMA during the recession. I know a number of companies didn't choose Limerick to locate in solely due to a lack of quality large office space within the city. Some moved out to plassey because there was no other option.

It was never in NAMA the local developers sold to a Cork developer

Poxyshamrock

knipex wrote: »

And sat in the hands of the hands of the banks \ NAMA during the recession. I know a number of companies didn't choose Limerick to locate in solely due to a lack of quality large office space within the city. Some moved out to plassey because there was no other option.

My only concern re city center office space is parking availability and planning restrictions re parking spaces re office space. However in saying that, increases in well paid employment within the city will drive up the requirement for quality accommodation within the city center. which should drive investment in refurbishing many of the run down beautiful Georgian building in the city to incorporate QUALITY apartments.

The city center has had no significant private sector investment for a long time, the opera center has already driven the badly needed redevelopment of Arthur's Quay. Limerick has soo much potential to be a modern, thriving livable city, much more so than Galway, for decades this has been squandered. Limerick 2030 is an attempt to address this by bringing back people into the city, and should act as the anchor for private sector development.

Also remember that Limerick 2030 is a a commercial entity, it has to have a viable business plan and pay for its self. its not a quango following council and state funds. it has to wash its own face. The Gardens is its first real project to be completed and is its first real revenue source.

Oh god! Please don’t mention parking!

CosmicFool

Poxyshamrock wrote: »

Oh god! Please don’t mention parking!

Limerick is one of the cheapest city's for parking in the country and has more parking spaces than other cities too. I really don't get why people are complaining about it.

tototoe

CosmicFool wrote: »

Limerick is one of the cheapest city's for parking in the country and has more parking spaces than other cities too. I really don't get why people are complaining about it.

Agree. The constant whining about parking in Limerick is utter nonsense. There is loads of it and it's pretty cheap compared to other places.

Glenomra

knipex wrote: »

And sat in the hands of the hands of the banks \ NAMA during the recession. I know a number of companies didn't choose Limerick to locate in solely due to a lack of quality large office space within the city. Some moved out to plassey because there was no other option.

My only concern re city center office space is parking availability and planning restrictions re parking spaces re office space. However in saying that, increases in well paid employment within the city will drive up the requirement for quality accommodation within the city center. which should drive investment in refurbishing many of the run down beautiful Georgian building in the city to incorporate QUALITY apartments.

The city center has had no significant private sector investment for a long time, the opera center has already driven the badly needed redevelopment of Arthur's Quay. Limerick has soo much potential to be a modern, thriving livable city, much more so than Galway, for decades this has been squandered. Limerick 2030 is an attempt to address this by bringing back people into the city, and should act as the anchor for private sector development.

Also remember that Limerick 2030 is a a commercial entity, it has to have a viable business plan and pay for its self. its not a quango following council and state funds. it has to wash its own face. The Gardens is its first real project to be completed and is its first real revenue source.

An excellent summary. Limerick city has seen significant progress over the last few years with the potential for dramatic improvement within the next few.

kilburn

Glenomra wrote:

An excellent summary. Limerick city has seen significant progress over the last few years with the potential for dramatic improvement within the next few.

Agreed it's an excellent summary but the start of the first paragraph is factually incorrect and unfair on the original builders of the block