Limerick improvement projects

Vanquished

How much has Limerick really advanced in the last number of years though? Yes we have seen a significant pick-up in FDI job creation and the extra disposable income has had a positive impact on the services and hospitality industry in particular. Many new cafes, restaurants and bars have opened in the last number of years. However this is a pretty standard feature of a recovering economy and not a sign of dramatic or systemic change. If we ignore all the Council generated spin and spoof, there has actually been little or no physical evidence of tangible progress or improvement. Investment in the city centre particularly is still essentially nil.

Not a single big ticket project has been completed in the city centre since 2009. I'm not counting the Hanging Gardens as that was a state subsidised intervention. The office and residential project at Bishop's Quay has never left the drawing board and will not go ahead in it's current form. One could argue that the much vaunted Limerick 2030 strategy while laudable in one sense has only served to undermine the local commercial property market and create uncertainty for private investors seeking opportunities in Limerick. In addition to that, the rate of progress and timescale for project delivery is utterly pathetic. The "opera site" saga has been ongoing for 8 years with planning permission not even secured yet. That being said the plans are remarkably sterile and unambitious. Another critical site at the old Cleeve's factory is barely at the feasability study stage.

Our city centre public realm is still an absolute embarrassment. Yes O'Connell Street may eventually be on the cusp of a rejuvenation after 30 years of promises but the selected design is again underwhelming and lacking the type of conviction that would have brought real change. Plans for other core streets such as Catherine Street, Henry Street, Roche's Street, Pery Square etc. etc. are non-existant.

CSO figures released recently show yet again that population growth in Limerick is negligible and this mirrors the trend of a numbers of decades now where we have consistently posted some of the lowest growth rates in the state. On a related note one need only take a look at the strategic housing application figures to see that the number of proposals in Limerick falls significantly short of those in Cork and even Galway. It's clear that there are significant challenges to be overcome if Limerick is to even begin to unlock it's undoubted and enormous potential. Substantial private sector investment is the only way to achieve this but ultimately the Local Authority has a major role to play in positioning the city as an attractive location for investment and development.

Mc Love

Vanquished wrote: »

How much has Limerick really advanced in the last number of years though? Yes we have seen a significant pick-up in FDI job creation and the extra disposable income has had a positive impact on the services and hospitality industry in particular. Many new cafes, restaurants and bars have opened in the last number of years. However this is a pretty standard feature of a recovering economy and not a sign of dramatic or systemic change. If we ignore all the Council generated spin and spoof, there has actually been little or no physical evidence of tangible progress or improvement. Investment in the city centre particularly is still essentially nil.

Not a single big ticket project has been completed in the city centre since 2009. I'm not counting the Hanging Gardens as that was a state subsidised intervention. The office and residential project at Bishop's Quay has never left the drawing board and will not go ahead in it's current form. One could argue that the much vaunted Limerick 2030 strategy while laudable in one sense has only served to undermine the local commercial property market and create uncertainty for private investors seeking opportunities in Limerick. In addition to that, the rate of progress and timescale for project delivery is utterly pathetic. The "opera site" saga has been ongoing for 8 years with planning permission not even secured yet. That being said the plans are remarkably sterile and unambitious. Another critical site at the old Cleeve's factory is barely at the feasability study stage.

Our city centre public realm is still an absolute embarrassment. Yes O'Connell Street may eventually be on the cusp of a rejuvenation after 30 years of promises but the selected design is again underwhelming and lacking the type of conviction that would have brought real change. Plans for other core streets such as Catherine Street, Henry Street, Roche's Street, Pery Square etc. etc. are non-existant.

CSO figures released recently show yet again that population growth in Limerick is negligible and this mirrors the trend of a numbers of decades now where we have consistently posted some of the lowest growth rates in the state. On a related note one need only take a look at the strategic housing application figures to see that the number of proposals in Limerick falls significantly short of those in Cork and even Galway. It's clear that there are significant challenges to be overcome if Limerick is to even begin to unlock it's undoubted and enormous potential. Substantial private sector investment is the only way to achieve this but ultimately the Local Authority has a major role to play in positioning the city as an attractive location for investment and development.

Not city center but look at all the out of town developments that have taken place but I suppose thats systematic of the failures of the city fathers to provide somewhere for these companies to build/lease.

dave 27

Vanquished wrote: »

How much has Limerick really advanced in the last number of years though? Yes we have seen a significant pick-up in FDI job creation and the extra disposable income has had a positive impact on the services and hospitality industry in particular. Many new cafes, restaurants and bars have opened in the last number of years. However this is a pretty standard feature of a recovering economy and not a sign of dramatic or systemic change. If we ignore all the Council generated spin and spoof, there has actually been little or no physical evidence of tangible progress or improvement. Investment in the city centre particularly is still essentially nil.

Not a single big ticket project has been completed in the city centre since 2009. I'm not counting the Hanging Gardens as that was a state subsidised intervention. The office and residential project at Bishop's Quay has never left the drawing board and will not go ahead in it's current form. One could argue that the much vaunted Limerick 2030 strategy while laudable in one sense has only served to undermine the local commercial property market and create uncertainty for private investors seeking opportunities in Limerick. In addition to that, the rate of progress and timescale for project delivery is utterly pathetic. The "opera site" saga has been ongoing for 8 years with planning permission not even secured yet. That being said the plans are remarkably sterile and unambitious. Another critical site at the old Cleeve's factory is barely at the feasability study stage.

Our city centre public realm is still an absolute embarrassment. Yes O'Connell Street may eventually be on the cusp of a rejuvenation after 30 years of promises but the selected design is again underwhelming and lacking the type of conviction that would have brought real change. Plans for other core streets such as Catherine Street, Henry Street, Roche's Street, Pery Square etc. etc. are non-existant.

CSO figures released recently show yet again that population growth in Limerick is negligible and this mirrors the trend of a numbers of decades now where we have consistently posted some of the lowest growth rates in the state. On a related note one need only take a look at the strategic housing application figures to see that the number of proposals in Limerick falls significantly short of those in Cork and even Galway. It's clear that there are significant challenges to be overcome if Limerick is to even begin to unlock it's undoubted and enormous potential. Substantial private sector investment is the only way to achieve this but ultimately the Local Authority has a major role to play in positioning the city as an attractive location for investment and development.

I thought there was more than that happening in Limerick regarding house building? I could be wrong tho

knipex

CosmicFool wrote: »

Limerick is one of the cheapest city's for parking in the country and has more parking spaces than other cities too. I really don't get why people are complaining about it.

Have you driven by Northern Trust ? Or Hamilton House \ Icon buildings in Plassey.

When you build offices to hold 300, 400, 500, even a thousand people some are going to drive.. Not all, in city center offices hopefully not even half but some will.

As someone who uses parking in Limerick City, the currently situation is one of the best things about it. I have never once complained about the lack of parking.

However you cannot build office space for thousands without considering parking or indeed the impact on other infrastructure including public transport.

knipex

kilburn wrote: »

Agreed it's an excellent summary but the start of the first paragraph is factually incorrect and unfair on the original builders of the block

and I stand corrected. I was involved in the periphery (involved is too strong a word I was in a few meetings where it was discussed) in the early stages of the original fit-out for Uber and I overheard a remark about the bank signing off so i assumed it was NAMA or bank owned..

None the less at a relatively early stage in the recovery it was fitted out and occupied.

If you compare Limerick to any other Irish city there is a lack of quality office space within the city. For large scale offices you need to go to Plassey.

Many companies want a city base office. Personally I would prefer to work in a city center based office.

it also drives daytime traffic in a city which in turn drives retail and hospitality sectors which will drive further development. Once you have the jobs within the city center people will want to live there and residential development will happen.

The focus on retail to save the city is a waste of time. People are needed to save the city, foot traffic is needed to save the city. Large box retail is better suited to out of city locations, thats what the retailers want and its what customers want.

People go where there are jobs, people want to live where there are jobs where there is activity, where there is a social scene.

Your not going to get factories in the city center, or logistics hubs, but you can bring in offices, call centers, banking, finance, leasing, insurance, IT, education, healthcare and even small scale research. That's what will grow Limerick not M&S.

Stop the sprawl, bring the jobs in, encourage residential, look at park and ride on the outskirts off the M20, the M7 and the M18 with, quality well services transport links to the city center.

In the city, plant trees, plant gardens, make it a part of planning that all developments have green or garden areas, look at cities like Singapore real garden cities..


People talk about Galway and how amazing it is. Sorry and no offense to the Galway people, as a city it sucks, the city center is completely unsuitable for a modern city, traffic is a disaster, layout is a mess.

Limerick has excellent location and transport infrastructure, the city center is well laid out in a grid, relatively wide streets, a lovely medieval quarter with some amazing buildings that's begging for investment. History that has not of yet all been destroyed,

its been let down by politicians, and lack of vision.

I'm a blow in to Limerick, a relatively recent one at that. I have left twice but always came back, but I appear to have more pride in the city and see more potential that many people who grew up here.

kilburn

knipex wrote:

I'm a blow in to Limerick, a relatively recent one at that. I have left twice but always came back, but I appear to have more pride in the city and see more potential that many people who grew up here.

A high percentage of limerick people have no pride it's a shame really

Mc Love

M&S seems to be on the way down....

https://news.sky.com/story/marks-spencer-to-drop-out-of-the-ftse-100-for-first-time-in-indexs-35-year-history-11801440

damowill

There is only 1 day left to have your say on the O’ Connell Street redevelopment plans!

Just create an account and submit an observation through the below link

https://t.co/K71naxWMBk?amp=1

mdmix

https://fora.ie/floating-data-centre-planning-permission-appeal-withdrawn-4796507-Sep2019/

The data center at the docks is clear to go ahead. The company involved don’t have a record of similar projects, so not clear if this is a certainty.

Treepole

mdmix wrote: »

https://fora.ie/floating-data-centre-planning-permission-appeal-withdrawn-4796507-Sep2019/

The data center at the docks is clear to go ahead. The company involved don’t have a record of similar projects, so not clear if this is a certainty.

A daft idea that I don't see happening any time in the near future.

damowill

Treepole wrote: »

A daft idea that I don't see happening any time in the near future.

Not sure why you think its daft. I find it interesting. Data Centres are extremely expensive to run in terms of energy and cooling, and this proposal will use surrounding (free) water to run their cooling technology, without the need for any additional water and reduce costs. Ireland / Limerick already has a suitable climate, therefore lesser running costs than warmer countries, make it a good choice for a project like this.

knipex

damowill wrote: »

Not sure why you think its daft. I find it interesting. Data Centres are extremely expensive to run in terms of energy and cooling, and this proposal will use surrounding (free) water to run their cooling technology, without the need for any additional water and reduce costs. Ireland / Limerick already has a suitable climate, therefore lesser running costs than warmer countries, make it a good choice for a project like this.

The heat waste from data centers is considerable, as is the power requirements even more so. The employment potential post construction is by contract small.

The logistics of using riverwater to cool date centers is significant..

mdmix

there might be 30- 40 staff employed once operational (if it does go ahead). SFPC are trying to redevelop the docks and encourage other companies to move in. this would be a great starting point and may well draw in further investment.

Mc Love

mdmix wrote: »

there might be 30- 40 staff employed once operational (if it does go ahead). SFPC are trying to redevelop the docks and encourage other companies to move in. this would be a great starting point and may well draw in further investment.

30-40 is being very generous. More like 10 max I'd say

mdmix

I wasn’t far off, 24 permanent jobs was reported.

https://fora.ie/limerick-floating-data-centre-delay-4617150-May2019/

HailSatan

mdmix wrote: »

I wasn’t far off, 24 permanent jobs was reported.

https://fora.ie/limerick-floating-data-centre-delay-4617150-May2019/

Closer to 10 than 40.

Just saying

dellas1979

I often wonder what the city council/planners do all day long.

Cause it sure aint making the city center into something great. And it has all the ingredients to be great. It just isnt being cooked the right way.

Derelict. Dirty. Grey. Smell of pee. Looks like pee. I cannot get over the footpaths on O connell street. People's park is filthy. Ive seen better in 3rd world countries. Even some small improvements would be better than nothing.

bazz26

The people who put it in that state should be made accountable too. It shouldn't singly be the council's fault because some people are dirty.

knipex

dellas1979 wrote: »

I often wonder what the city council/planners do all day long.

Cause it sure aint making the city center into something great. And it has all the ingredients to be great. It just isnt being cooked the right way.

Derelict. Dirty. Grey. Smell of pee. Looks like pee. I cannot get over the footpaths on O connell street. People's park is filthy. Ive seen better in 3rd world countries. Even some small improvements would be better than nothing.

Not sure what you are talking about re the peoples Park. I walked through the park twice on Friday and had lunch there on Saturday. It looked great, grass had been cut, sun was out.. It was bright and fresh..

Some parts of the city need a lot of work. The area around the train station, for the love of god, plant a few trees. The works around Arthurs Quay \ Opera center will do a lot for that area. The council appear to have CPO's a number of derelict buildings and apparently have plans to renovate. I have also noticed works takign place in a number of the townhouses on O'Connell St \ Quinlan St \ O'Connell avenue area as well as Hartstonge St, Mallow St, Barrington and St, Cecil St. I don't walk around the other side of the city as much but I cannot imagine they are doing one end of the city center in isolation..

I not goign to pretend that other areas of Limerick dont need work and renovation but its hardly a hopeless case.

I have a friend in Dublin who is wheel chair bound. He always comments on how its so much easier get around Limerick than Dublin. He has mentioned some locations, like Denmark St as not so great but in general he was impressed.

knipex

Arrival wrote: »

When you see actual houses in the centre while walking along parts of the river instead of attractive apartments with commercial units on the ground floors it says it all really.

.

How many European cities don't have old town houses ? In how many of them does it not make up the character of the city. Even European influences cities around the world.

LimerickCity

knipex wrote: »

Not sure what you are talking about re the peoples Park. I walked through the park twice on Friday and had lunch there on Saturday. It looked great, grass had been cut, sun was out.. It was bright and fresh..

Took the dog for a walk around there on Saturday afternoon and the place was in tip top condition. I had not been in there for a few months and it looked better than ever.

Walked the entire park, no littler or dog ****e anywhere. Fair dues to those responsible for it's upkeep.

topcat72

Hearing rumours that the proposed redevelopment of the Gaelcholáiste on the old Dawn Dairies site on Clare Street has been delayed, with funds instead to be used to getting the Limerick Educate Together ( secondary) school built ( or at least progressed) sooner. They are currently in Fernbank, plan to build in castletroy end.

lockman

dellas1979 wrote: »

I often wonder what the city council/planners do all day long.

Cause it sure aint making the city center into something great. And it has all the ingredients to be great. It just isnt being cooked the right way.

Derelict. Dirty. Grey. Smell of pee. Looks like pee. I cannot get over the footpaths on O connell street. People's park is filthy. Ive seen better in 3rd world countries. Even some small improvements would be better than nothing.

Limerick Tidy Town volunteers meet in the city centre twice weekly to help clean and tidy the place as follows:

- 18:00 h every Wednesday outside The White House pub on O'Connell street for ~ 1 hour (May - Sep)

- 11:00 h on Thomas Street, near Brown Thomas entrance, every Sunday, for ~ 1 hour or more, if you can spare it (year round).

You don't have to turn up every week or even for the full hour. A few minutes from time to time or a once off; all/any contributions are welcome. Everyone and anyone is welcome to attend and pitch in. Gloves, bags, pickers etc., will be provided.

limez

So the "top international chain restaurant" coming to the Crescent is ..... <drum-roll> Nandos...

Hardly a threat to city centre vitality!

Paddico

limez wrote: »

So the "top international chain restaurant" coming to the Crescent is ..... <drum-roll> Nandos...

Hardly a threat to city centre vitality!

God almighty!!

rock n roll

mdmix

office availability/rates in limerick

https://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/rents-for-prime-offices-are-on-the-rise-in-limerick-38511938.html

pigtown

mdmix wrote: »

office availability/rates in limerick

https://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/rents-for-prime-offices-are-on-the-rise-in-limerick-38511938.html

What I'm taking from that is that the vast majority of city centre office space is older, small floor plate space, which doesn't attract great rates. Rental rates comparable to Cork city seems positive anyway

Poxyshamrock

There’s clearly no demand though because if there was then developers would be buying blocks and buildings to demolish or retrofit

mdmix

pigtown wrote: »

What I'm taking from that is that the vast majority of city centre office space is older, small floor plate space, which doesn't attract great rates. Rental rates comparable to Cork city seems positive anyway

I’m not sure if it meant rates are the same or if the rise in rates is the same. Considering the large scale transformation going on in cork I would be very worried if rates are the same up here. If a company is looking to relocate to an urban center in Ireland what can limerick offer that cork cannot? If it’s not a better price price then it hasn’t got anything to offer

Strettie11

From the actual report rental rates per Sq metre are the same in Cork and limerick for new build GOLD Standard.

Sadly the state of the 2 markets I hope are not reflected in the quality of the reports the Limerick report is a 1 pager, the Cork report report is a 6 page document more like a promo for Cork

Also of interest is new construction numbers
Limerick
completed in first half 5,100 sq metres all in Shannon !!!
Under construction 9,850 sq m in Castletroy, zero in city

Cork
completed in first half 10,650 sq m
under construction 51,050 sq m ( not a typo) 90% of construction in city centre. 7,000 sq M of this will be complete by end 2019, rest end of 2020