Limerick improvement projects

tototoe

Ye should have a listen to John Moran on Newstalk this morning about the MOU signed today for the 2BN plan linked to earlier. Very interesting regarding the site around Colbert station. They are taking a very different approach to this site, with the HSE, CIE and other state agencies invloved. Massive amount of residential planned and that seems to be where the focus of the residential is going to be, rather than in the city centre which would be the Central Business District.

This is not going to be Dock Road style apartment developments. Its about the best thing I have heard for Limerick in a long time, in that it is a co-ordinated approach, rather than just more stand alone apartment blocks. They are looking at public transport, requirements for schools and medical centres, whats services already in the area, and whats not.

Just sticking up apartment blocks on the quays, high rise or not is not the answer and is a mistake made by Dublin already.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/construction/development-of-10-000-home-scheme-moves-a-step-closer-in-limerick-1.4135798

bazz26

dominatinMC wrote: »

We're probably delving into speculation here, but any idea why that was the case? The council (through Limerick 2030) are already overseeing the Gardens project and the Opera Centre - both of which are largely commercial. One would have to question the rationale behind yet more office space

More revenue from commercial rates than residential developments I'd imagine.

topper75

tototoe wrote: »

Ye should have a listen to John Moran on Newstalk this morning about the MOU signed today for the 2BN plan linked to earlier. Very interesting regarding the site around Colbert station. They are taking a very different approach to this site, with the HSE, CIE and other state agencies invloved. Massive amount of residential planned and that seems to be where the focus of the residential is going to be, rather than in the city centre which would be the Central Business District.

This is not going to be Dock Road style apartment developments. Its about the best thing I have heard for Limerick in a long time, in that it is a co-ordinated approach, rather than just more stand alone apartment blocks. They are looking at public transport, requirements for schools and medical centres, whats services already in the area, and whats not.

Just sticking up apartment blocks on the quays, high rise or not is not the answer and is a mistake made by Dublin already.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/construction/development-of-10-000-home-scheme-moves-a-step-closer-in-limerick-1.4135798

I heard that too and didn't hear a single detail to convince me that this won't simply be a super-scaled Glenagross or O'Malley Pk right next to the city centre. The failure of the Dock Rd. is not about medical centres or buses.

Note that the people responsible for those disasters in the past didn't set out to create ghettos that would degrade and fester. They set out with fine intentions and uptalk just like Mr. Moran.

Residential is welcome. Highrise is even welcome. But giant uninterrupted developments -> antisocial behaviour timebomb. Does Limerick really need to go learn that lesson all over again for this century? I despair.

rebs23

topper75 wrote: »

I heard that too and didn't hear a single detail to convince me that this won't simply be a super-scaled Glenagross or O'Malley Pk right next to the city centre. The failure of the Dock Rd. is not about medical centres or buses.

Note that the people responsible for those disasters in the past didn't set out to create ghettos that would degrade and fester. They set out with fine intentions and uptalk just like Mr. Moran.

Residential is welcome. Highrise is even welcome. But giant uninterrupted developments -> antisocial behaviour timebomb. Does Limerick really need to go learn that lesson all over again for this century? I despair.

Correct, this proposal by the LDA is an absolute monstrosity in scale and is complete madness. As it's state lands and a semi-state agency it will mean at least 40% Social and Affordable housing on a site which is landlocked by a railway line, prison, etc. It's a tight site so it will mean high density apartments so effectively apartments tightly packed into the site many of which will be apartments. The price put on the development at €2 billion is crazy for that amount of units and means there is a huge amount of infrastructure that has to be moved or put in place.
It is beyond crazy with no analysis of how it affects development generally in the city, it is exactly the type of piecemeal development that lead to problems in the past.
Imagine at least 200 social housing apartments in that location!
I can gurantee it will never get built.

CosmicFool

rebs23 wrote: »

Correct, this proposal by the LDA is an absolute monstrosity in scale and is complete madness. As it's state lands and a semi-state agency it will mean at least 40% Social and Affordable housing on a site which is landlocked by a railway line, prison, etc. It's a tight site so it will mean high density apartments so effectively apartments tightly packed into the site many of which will be apartments. The price put on the development at €2 billion is crazy for that amount of units and means there is a huge amount of infrastructure that has to be moved or put in place.
It is beyond crazy with no analysis of how it affects development generally in the city, it is exactly the type of piecemeal development that lead to problems in the past.
Imagine at least 200 social housing apartments in that location!
I can gurantee it will never get built.

They work in other countries so why can't they work here?
What would you purpose to do?

sioda

Where is this massive site meant to be?

mdmix

topper75 wrote: »

I heard that too and didn't hear a single detail to convince me that this won't simply be a super-scaled Glenagross or O'Malley Pk right next to the city centre. The failure of the Dock Rd. is not about medical centres or buses.

Note that the people responsible for those disasters in the past didn't set out to create ghettos that would degrade and fester. They set out with fine intentions and uptalk just like Mr. Moran.

Residential is welcome. Highrise is even welcome. But giant uninterrupted developments -> antisocial behaviour timebomb. Does Limerick really need to go learn that lesson all over again for this century? I despair.

you seem like an expert in this area, what evidence are you basing this on?

tototoe

So ye want high rise, and ye want city residential, and high density...but this plan is rubbish.
Give me patience, ...its yer own little utopia ye are looking for.

ricimaki

I'm really struggling to see where the 123 acres / 50 hectares size is coming from.
Here's an overlay of 123 acres on Limerick city



From my rough messing around in Google Earth, there's roughly 30 acres of fields alongside the old Foynes rail line at the bottom of this image. After that, there are a few 10-15 acre sites dotted around, but they are really spread out.

Cookiemunster

ricimaki wrote: »

I'm really struggling to see where the 123 acres / 50 hectares size is coming from.
Here's an overlay of 123 acres on Limerick city



From my rough messing around in Google Earth, there's roughly 30 acres of fields alongside the old Foynes rail line at the bottom of this image. After that, there are a few 10-15 acre sites dotted around, but they are really spread out.

I'd love to know myself where exactly this land is. From what I can see there's the land behind St Joseph's belong to the HSE, there's the land behind Kennedy and Glasgow Parks belonging to CIE and there's a triangle of land between Janesboro, Carey's Road and the railway line also belonging to CIE. None of that land is connected to the train station (as John Moran claims) and it also isn't 50 hectares.

There's loads of talk, but I've yet to see an actual map of the lands included in the plan.

peckerhead

Shur they only need 10 hectares of buildable space if they go 5 stories high. :pac:

bazz26

topper75

mdmix wrote: »

you seem like an expert in this area, what evidence are you basing this on?

I'm no expert. But I don't see any expertise at work with this proposal.

I'm a Limerickperson, very concerned about the city's future. My opinion is as valid as any in this respect. I don't want to see the mistakes of the past repeated at all. I certainly don't want to see them repeated on a grander scale than ever before. Southill was in place before I was born. But it is obvious what they did wrong. Loads of houses with no meaningful separation. One way in, one way out. One outcome possible -> ghetto riddled with antisocial behaviour.

I saw Moyross going up. I saw the new houses. I saw the rot. I saw it fester. I saw good people suffering and pretty keen to get out of there. Nobody in the planning saw the blunder of the mass nature of the development. Political pressure meant common sense was thrown aside. A housing monolith with no reason for anyone to pass through or go in there. Just add time.

Are we just going to accept that again?

Cookiemunster

topper75 wrote: »

I'm no expert. But I don't see any expertise at work with this proposal.

I'm a Limerickperson, very concerned about the city's future. My opinion is as valid as any in this respect. I don't want to see the mistakes of the past repeated at all. I certainly don't want to see them repeated on a grander scale than ever before. Southill was in place before I was born. But it is obvious what they did wrong. Loads of houses with no meaningful separation. One way in, one way out. One outcome possible -> ghetto riddled with antisocial behaviour.

I saw Moyross going up. I saw the new houses. I saw the rot. I saw it fester. I saw good people suffering and pretty keen to get out of there. Nobody in the planning saw the blunder of the mass nature of the development. Political pressure meant common sense was thrown aside. A housing monolith with no reason for anyone to pass through or go in there. Just add time.

Are we just going to accept that again?

Firstly there are no plans yet, so comparing the proposal to Southill or Moyross is frankly ridiculous. This (if it gets off the ground) is not going to be a sprawling housing estate. Its going to be apartment blocks near the city center.

You must see the development of over 400 apartments on the Canal Bank housing over 1000 people as a future ghetto as well so.

The simple fact is that this is the way of living in the future and private developments of over 1000 units are now commonly passing through fast track planning in Dublin.


Secondly you're claiming there's no expertise on the projects. I beg to differ.

David Browne, former President of the RIAI and director at one of Ireland’s leading firm of architects (RKD), has been appointed chair of the design panel. David will be working with the LDA to establish the panel in the coming weeks.

https://www.limerick.ie/council/newsroom/news/lda-limerick-city-and-county-council-hse-and-cie-sign-memorandum


Maybe if you wait until there are actual plans to see before going off on one, you might actually have a point (And I come at this as someone who's very skeptical about the project).

topper75

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Firstly there are no plans yet, so comparing the proposal to Southill or Moyross is frankly ridiculous. This (if it gets off the ground) is not going to be a sprawling housing estate. Its going to be apartment blocks near the city center.

You must see the development of over 400 apartments on the Canal Bank housing over 1000 people as a future ghetto as well so.

The simple fact is that this is the way of living in the future and private developments of over 1000 units are now commonly passing through fast track planning in Dublin.


Secondly you're claiming there's no expertise on the projects. I beg to differ.

https://www.limerick.ie/council/newsroom/news/lda-limerick-city-and-county-council-hse-and-cie-sign-memorandum


Maybe if you wait until there are actual plans to see before going off on one, you might actually have a point (And I come at this as someone who's very skeptical about the project).

If there are no plans Cookie, what was the announcement? There WAS an announcement and it was about a large-scale uninterrupted residential project.

Limerick has had very painful experience with this. These guys can be members of this and have those letters after their name, but when it all goes tits up they walk away with no consequence to some leafy Dublin suburb.

We then are stuck with their failed experiment and all its consequences. I reject your ridicule and reiterate my caution. Develop this state land by all means but don't have it ALL residential with no through roads and no reasons for non-residents to go in. Limerick people have seen enough of that.

CosmicFool

topper75 wrote: »

If there are no plans Cookie, what was the announcement? There WAS an announcement and it was about a large-scale uninterrupted residential project.

Limerick has had very painful experience with this. These guys can be members of this and have those letters after their name, but when it all goes tits up they walk away with no consequence to some leafy Dublin suburb.

We then are stuck with their failed experiment and all its consequences. I reject your ridicule and reiterate my caution. Develop this state land by all means but don't have it ALL residential with no through roads and no reasons for non-residents to go in. Limerick people have seen enough of that.

I've been to many countries where developments with just purpose built apartments houses with no through road work but the problem we have here is the amount of social housing. Nice decent families who've worked hard for their money to afford a nice house/apt and to keep it hat way.

Then you have families who've been given everything and don't give a flying ****. Families with known criminal activity will be given free houses. Here is where the problem is. You're going to have these people ruin it like they've ruined other estates.

Cookiemunster

topper75 wrote: »

If there are no plans Cookie, what was the announcement? There WAS an announcement and it was about a large-scale uninterrupted residential project.

Limerick has had very painful experience with this. These guys can be members of this and have those letters after their name, but when it all goes tits up they walk away with no consequence to some leafy Dublin suburb.

We then are stuck with their failed experiment and all its consequences. I reject your ridicule and reiterate my caution. Develop this state land by all means but don't have it ALL residential with no through roads and no reasons for non-residents to go in. Limerick people have seen enough of that.

Completely and utterly wrong. There was an announcement of an memorandum of understanding to put together a panel to design a masterplan. Nothng else. Definitely not a plan to create a 'large-scale uninterrupted residential project'. Maybe you should try and actually read the press release.

The project ...... has the potential to deliver very significant living, office and leisure space adjacent to Limerick’s main transport hub and a HSE facility and accompanying lands.

And John Moran is from and lives in Limerick. He won't be walking away anywhere.

Treepole

Where is this 50 hectares?

Cookiemunster

Treepole wrote: »

Where is this 50 hectares?

That's the big mystery. They haven't release a map of the lands they're intending to use.

I can only assume the land behind St. Josephs owned by the HSE, the CIE Field behind Kennedy Park and Glasgow Park the triangle of land between Janesboro, Careys Road and the railway line.

I'm not sure if this adds up to 50 hectares, but I know of no other lands in the area belonging to CIE, the HSE or LCCC where any large development could occur.

toushea

Cookiemunster wrote: »

That's the big mystery. They haven't release a map of the lands they're intending to use.

I can only assume the land behind St. Josephs owned by the HSE, the CIE Field behind Kennedy Park and Glasgow Park the triangle of land between Janesboro, Careys Road and the railway line.

I'm not sure if this adds up to 50 hectares, but I know of no other lands in the area belonging to CIE, the HSE or LCCC where any large development could occur.

I doubt your far off the mark , if you take all the lands including the full extent of colbert station ( which in my mind makes sense if talking about a development masterplan- no reason the station itself wouldnt be part of it) you get close to 45 hectares of space. The attached is what i woudl invisage but may include some additional lands not yet owned

Twoman Fullbackline

Said it before and said it again, I don't think building over these existing rail arteries in/out of the city is a great idea. We'll see what the masterplans unveil I guess.

Poxyshamrock

New brand for Limerick being unveiled on 30th Jan.

Designed by M&C Saatchi in London.

dave 27

Poxyshamrock wrote: »

New brand for Limerick being unveiled on 30th Jan.

Designed by M&C Saatchi in London.

I was wondering when that would ever be revealed!

Cookiemunster

I've noticed that there's hoarding up in front of the GPO so the refurbishment works there have obviously started.

Also there's a commencement notice in for construction work to start on the Rugby Experience on Feb 4th.

pigtown

The Hunt Museum has launched a competition for a redesign of their garden. The brief includes the removal of the railings at the riverside of the building and large sculptures of items in the museum

mart 23

ABP has declared the application for apartments at the canal bank/pa healys road as invalid .

kilburn

mart 23 wrote: »

ABP has declared the application for apartments at the canal bank/pa healys road as invalid .

Any reason or a paperwork issue?

mart 23

kilburn wrote: »

Any reason or a paperwork issue?

There was no information as to why when I last looked. Maybe missing documents .

Limerick74

O’Connell Street Project our to tender. https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/the-revitalisation-of-limericks-oconnell-street-takes-a-step-forward-979014.html

Cookiemunster

The reduced height office block on Bishops Quay has been given planning permission by the council. 7 stories instead of the 15 originally permitted. It's a pity they couldn't make the higher tower viable.