Limerick improvement projects

phog

Mc Love wrote: »

I think this would be a great plan for the city - wasnt sure if it should have its own thread:

https://limerickcycledesign.com/2020/05/22/an-amateurs-traffic-circulation-plan-for-limerick-city-centre/

I think it's a crazy plan especially when there's no movement in completing the NDRR.

The title "An amateur’s traffic circulation plan for Limerick city centre" wasn't really necessary as you could see from the plan on how the author intended to manage the current flow of traffic that it pretty poor attempt.

Berty

I looked at that map and noticed the suggestion of putting that small bit of Denmark street to a 2 way. People might not know this(or remember) but it was two way from the alley by Flannerys for years and years but nobody would even be seen driving towards Burger King, but you could. Check out streetview, now you can see it's one way but go back an image and you see the lines on the road still there, not long after the stop sign was removed.

geotrig

on denmark street ,

the circled bit seems really dumb

Mc Love

phog wrote: »

I think it's a crazy plan especially when there's no movement in completing the NDRR.

The title "An amateur’s traffic circulation plan for Limerick city centre" wasn't really necessary as you could see from the plan on how the author intended to manage the current flow of traffic that it pretty poor attempt.

The NDRR isnt going to solve all your problems phog

Cookiemunster

geotrig wrote: »

on denmark street ,

the circled bit seems really dumb

The fact that it's titled an amateurs traffic circulation plan tells you all you need to know. The author has no idea how traffic actually circulates.

Mc Love

If you would have actually looked at it, you'd see it could work in the city. Not perfect by any means but something we should strive towards.

geotrig

I think William street( even if we dont like most of the shops on it) and o connell street up to "chicken hut corner " with the same allignment for Catherine ST would make more sense to be pedestrianised ,it would reopen and keep Roches and Shannon street open to 2 way traffic , and would open also lower henry street to go to 2 way until shannon st. It would also facilitate lower sariesfield street by hook and ladder to be pedestrianised as well.

geotrig

Mc Love wrote: »

If you would have actually looked at it, you'd see it could work in the city. Not perfect by any means but something we should strive towards.

Its terrible though it criss-cross's bus an pedestrianised areas constantly !

Mc Love

geotrig wrote: »

I think William street( even if we dont like most of the shops on it) and o connell street up to "chicken hut corner " with the same allignment for Catherine ST would make more sense to be pedestrianised ,it would reopen and keep Roches and Shannon street open to 2 way traffic , and would open also lower henry street to go to 2 way until shannon st. It would also facilitate lower sariesfield street by hook and ladder to be pedestrianised as well.

That would be based off a superblock idea - cant see the cabal going for that

geotrig wrote: »

Its terrible though it criss-cross's bus an pedestrianised areas constantly !

It's designed in a way for the city to be used as a destination and not a rat-run, drive through to get somewhere else.

geotrig

Mc Love wrote: »

That would be based off a superblock idea - cant see the cabal going for that



It's designed in a way for the city to be used as a destination and not a rat-run, drive through to get somewhere else.

Yeah ,but sometimes we over reach and over complicate things and his/her design seems to be over complicating a smaller simple problem , a superblock so be it ,but it would benefit business's outside this block anyway and if they cant see that they need to have a rethink of their business overall I think .
The view to me would be to expand and to incorporate another street as time and the habits change.

I really do think the town would benefit more not having William street as a run through , it is pretty much dead centre and with lower oconnell st so to me makes more sense to fully pedestrianise these and not run buses through them, what i suggested above without having to carry out major work re routing traffic in the same general directions.
The only problem I see is traffic coming from corbally as i'd be reluctant to route that down past the ARTHURS QUAY park as id like to see less traffic there.

Mc Love

We definitely need to make the city a destination though and the first step has to be improving the streetscape and hopefully then it will attract more retail and people to the city.

phog

Mc Love wrote: »

The NDRR isnt going to solve all your problems phog

Where did I say or imply it would?

It would certainly remove some of the current flow of traffic

Mc Love

phog wrote: »

Where did I say or imply it would?

It would certainly remove some of the current flow of traffic

You said the above traffic plan would be crazy because the LNDR hasnt been completed. It might remove some of the traffic but as SRR proves adding another road scheme made no difference to the city traffic.

Cookiemunster

Mc Love wrote: »

You said the above traffic plan would be crazy because the LNDR hasnt been completed. It might remove some of the traffic but as SRR proves adding another road scheme made no difference to the city traffic.

That last sentence is complete and utter rubbish. There were 24000 vehicles a day using the tunnel before the lockdown and 55000 using the M7 near the Tipp Road junction. What roads do you think those vehicles would be using without the tunnel or the rest of the SRR?
How many large HGVs do you see using the city center these days?
The Condell Road and the Ennis Road used to be backed up most of the way out to Coonagh every evening before the tunnel opened. At times it took an hour to get from Coonagh to the river. They're a breeze to drive these days.
To think that the LNDR wouldn't take even more traffic out of the city center is delusional.

Mc Love

I actually see a lot of HGV's using the city center, my office overlooked Henry St. by Howleys Quay. Everything from car transporters to animal feed to you name it. The Condell Rd in school times could be backed up past the lights but traffic is still using the city as a throughfare. Having the SRR didnt change that so cut the bull.

geotrig

Cookiemonster is right a lot of traffic was taken out of the city with the tunnel and srr, just because a truck comes through the city doesn't mean its using it as a rat run a few are but in some instances it may be the most direct route between it stop points etc. No matter what is built cars trucks need access to the city for deliveries.
The Ennis road condell road and moylish road used to be tailed back and exceptionally slow moving these roads have helped take most of the traffic that doesn't need to be stuck there out

Cookiemunster

Mc Love wrote: »

I actually see a lot of HGV's using the city center, my office overlooked Henry St. by Howleys Quay. Everything from car transporters to animal feed to you name it. The Condell Rd in school times could be backed up past the lights but traffic is still using the city as a throughfare. Having the SRR didnt change that so cut the bull.

The only bull is coming from yourself. Tens of thousands of vehicles are avoiding the city every day thanks to the SRR and the tunnel. Backed up to the lights for the school run? It used to be backed up to Coonagh twice a day. And the Ennis Road and the road in by Thomond Park used to be just as bad. You're ignoring this fact because it doesn't suit your agenda, but I remember the torture of driving home from Shannon every evening before the tunnel opened.

It's very easy to drive through the city these days. As geotrig said, some HGVs still have to the use the city, but the vast majority of HGVs and cars that don't need to use the city are bypassing it.

The one area that doesn't have a bypass is traffic coming from the Corbally direction. It has no choice but to use city streets. The LNDR or some version of this would solve that problem.

James Bond Junior

Car transporters and Animal feed trucks. Hmmm, if only there was somewhere they could have been going in the dock road area....?

I had an appointment in Shannon every week for about 3 years, travelling back at around 6pm on a weekday evening. Depending on what I needed to do on my way home, I'd either come off at Caherdavin or take the tunnel. The Condell road would basically be clear the whole way in at that time, baring in mind the DC from Shannon in would be fairly heavy with all of the workers coming home from the factories etc. The toll booths would always have a queue, even the express lane. Now if the traffic was heavy coming from Shannon, the toll booths busy and traffic free moving on the Condell road, what does that mean?

phog

Mc Love wrote: »

You said the above traffic plan would be crazy because the LNDR hasnt been completed. It might remove some of the traffic but as SRR proves adding another road scheme made no difference to the city traffic.

I know what I said but you seemed to think I said something else altogether.

proves adding another road scheme made no difference to the city traffic

That's bull and you should know even if you don't want to admit it.

The very reason why the Council could put in new pedestrian crossings and traffic lights around the city is the reduction in traffic in the city because some of the traffic that came through the city now use the tunnel and/or Condell Road.

The LNDR will reduce that traffic even more.

mdmix

phog wrote: »

I know what I said but you seemed to think I said something else altogether.



That's bull and you should know even if you don't want to admit it.

The very reason why the Council could put in new pedestrian crossings and traffic lights around the city is the reduction in traffic in the city because some of the traffic that came through the city now use the tunnel and/or Condell Road.

The LNDR will reduce that traffic even more.

The LNDR will not be built as there is not enough demand. There are too many issues and too many hurdles to overcome, see the LNDR thread. There are a few hundred people who “need” it, at a cost of 200 million its a ridiculous concept. Building a tram to cover limerick for 200 million would take actually take traffic off the roads, instead of redirecting it. While the concept of a tram gets laughed at, for some reason we entertain the idea of building a 200 million road.

martyc5674

phog wrote: »

The very reason why the Council could put in new pedestrian crossings and traffic lights around the city is the reduction in traffic in the city because some of the traffic that came through the city now use the tunnel and/or Condell Road.

That is just a crazy statement- and maybe its true, highlights the car dominance attitude within the council.

geotrig

mdmix wrote: »

The LNDR will not be built as there is not enough demand. There are too many issues and too many hurdles to overcome, see the LNDR thread. There are a few hundred people who “need” it, at a cost of 200 million its a ridiculous concept. Building a tram to cover limerick for 200 million would take actually take traffic off the roads, instead of redirecting it. While the concept of a tram gets laughed at, for some reason we entertain the idea of building a 200 million road.

You are guessing a few hundred but very few people unless they have the stats really knows figues it could be a few hundred or thousands taken out of the city and close suburbs daily. I'm not saying it's perfect but why not explore all options? Lndr whether it connects to castle Troy ul side has to be explored and buit in some vain
Tram why not I don't think you'd find anyone in favour or not in favour of the lndr who wouldn't want a tram system installed in our city, but the recent pandemic has also shown that options are needed, don't think I'd be comfortable being crammed on to see tram or the likes if something like this broke out again. Anyway we can't even pedestrianise one street never mind putting a tram system in place.
I'm sick of this city dying a death and wasting away,losing any identity it' ever had its been lacking any real investment from proposals all too long,it's been long lacking investment in infrastructure ,all aspects ,a vision and direction but more importantly execution of any proposal ever put forward by the few with vested interests
I don't know any city that seems to have shrunk in size as much as here and that's taking even into account all the retail parks every where else in the world seems to progress some bit but not here where the token bit gets done

/rant over

Cookiemunster

Well a commitment to the directly elected mayor, with an election next year is in the program for government. So we need to vote in numbers for the candidate that actually shows a vision for the city.

mdmix

geotrig wrote: »

You are guessing a few hundred but very few people unless they have the stats really knows figues it could be a few hundred or thousands taken out of the city and close suburbs daily. I'm not saying it's perfect but why not explore all options? Lndr whether it connects to castle Troy ul side has to be explored and buit in some vain
Tram why not I don't think you'd find anyone in favour or not in favour of the lndr who wouldn't want a tram system installed in our city, but the recent pandemic has also shown that options are needed, don't think I'd be comfortable being crammed on to see tram or the likes if something like this broke out again. Anyway we can't even pedestrianise one street never mind putting a tram system in place.
I'm sick of this city dying a death and wasting away,losing any identity it' ever had its been lacking any real investment from proposals all too long,it's been long lacking investment in infrastructure ,all aspects ,a vision and direction but more importantly execution of any proposal ever put forward by the few with vested interests
I don't know any city that seems to have shrunk in size as much as here and that's taking even into account all the retail parks every where else in the world seems to progress some bit but not here where the token bit gets done

/rant over

Stats are available in cso, ie where people start their journey. It doesn’t say what part of the city they finish, but it’s around 500 from memory. The 500 includes all modes so is not necessarily 500 cars, and not everyone going to castletroy or the city. Potentially another 300 or 400 from south east Clare.

The constantly expanding borders and sprawl of the city is what has killed it. The LNDR will encourage this further and the city will continue to decline. Investment in the city is needed, not outside it.

Cookiemunster

The Hunt Museum is looking to crowd fund €15000 to remove the railings and create a landscaped garden open to the public.

https://www.limerick.ie/discover/living/limerick-news/fund-cobble-create-museum-garden

Using scanning and 3D printing technologies, artefacts within the Hunt Museum, 'hidden' in collection cases, will be replicated in large form and installed in our newly landscaped garden, for all ages to play with and enjoy

Mc Love

Great to see this happening

https://twitter.com/DanielButlerFG/status/1272906156227387394?s=20

Paddico

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The Hunt Museum is looking to crowd fund €15000 to remove the railings and create a landscaped garden open to the public.

https://www.limerick.ie/discover/living/limerick-news/fund-cobble-create-museum-garden

Great idea

kilburn

The retailers have won on the pedestrianisation plan for Catherine St although from Glentworth st to Cecil St will have some pedestrianisation.

So Cllr Kiely caved on first challenging issue she had to deal with, is she only in the job a week? Impressive precedent she just set.

orangeocelot

Very disappointing to see a watered-down version of the Guiding Limerick Through COVID-19 plan passed by the council yesterday.
It seems that a small cabal of car park owners, traders, and FF/FG councillors managed to amend the proposal so that the temporary pedestrianisation of Catherine St only comes into effect after 6pm each day. A complete joke!
The amendment was still submitted and passed even though 55% of submissions in the consultation were in favour of the original plan while only 35% were against (with 10% neutral).

I've recently moved back to Limerick to start a new job after spending several years in Galway.
Every time I've been to the city recently I've been amazed at how many buildings are abandoned and at how eerily quiet the city is, even before the COVID-19 lockdown. Of course the city is going to die when cars are completely prioritised over people. You'd have to be insane to enjoy walking up O'Connell street breathing in diesel fumes while having to raise your voice to be heard over the engines of trucks and SUVs just metres away.

Hopefully with the directly elected mayor elections being held next year, there'll be some more political will to transform the city.

Cookiemunster

orangeocelot wrote: »

Very disappointing to see a watered-down version of the Guiding Limerick Through COVID-19 plan passed by the council yesterday.
It seems that a small cabal of car park owners, traders, and FF/FG councillors managed to amend the proposal so that the temporary pedestrianisation of Catherine St only comes into effect after 6pm each day. A complete joke!
The amendment was still submitted and passed even though 55% of submissions in the consultation were in favour of the original plan while only 35% were against (with 10% neutral).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's only Catherine St affected. Everything else goes ahead as proposed. While it's not ideal, were still getting pedestrianisation on Denmark Street, Robert Street, Howley’s Quay and Nicholas Street. We're getting lower speed limits, a new cycle lane on Shannon bridge, car parking spaces converted to bike parking and wider footpaths on O'Connell St.

Please don't paint it like the whole plan has been thrown on the scrapheap because the Catherine St. part isn't going ahead as planned.