Limerick improvement projects

Cetyl Palmitate

mdmix wrote: »

So 50c per 30 minutes is too much to couch up, but the petrol/deisel is not an issue? Why not just get to your real point

Not to mention value placed on added time to drive to cork! (assuming you are closer to limerick)

banie01

mdmix wrote: »

So 50c per 30 minutes is too much to couch up, but the petrol/deisel is not an issue? Why not just get to your real point

My real point?
Why don't you tell me what it is, oh wise and wonderful psychic overlord?

As for the 50c per 30 minutes, that's actually a great price.
Which carpark is that?
When I drive to town, I'd generally park in Cornmarket and it's a €2 minimum.

Now regarding my time, the fuel costs and my preference to travel to Cork rather than dine Al Fresco on our city streets.

The fuel costs should I decide to lunch out in Cork, would you believe they'd be free!
Due to some medical issues, I am lucky(or unlucky) enough to have an FTA with capacity for the Mrs too.

An hr on the train, or the bus. Travelling in comfort should I not fancy a drive.
The freedom to stroll around a far more welcoming and varied streetscape?
Too right I'd rather go to Cork than Limerick at present.

Funnily enough, I'd imagine so would a large portion of people from South Co Limerick and Tipp and North Co Cork, who'd otherwise be equidistant in time/distance from both.

The simple fact here, disregarding the actual cost involved in any portion of the parking/travel is that barring very few stores and a couple of restaurants there is no draw to Limerick and when a nearby city makes the fairly simple step of allowing some form of free parking?
It will resonate with quite a few people who'd be out to lunch, shop or even just browse.
I would quite honestly rather travel to Cork, than hop on the 304 and spend my time or indeed money in Limerick City Centre during the daytime.

During the evening, I'd marginally prefer Limerick but only as it's far easier to get home after closing time from Costello's than it is Gorbies.

I look forward to you explaining what my point is

Cetyl Palmitate

banie01 wrote: »

My real point?
Why don't you tell me what it is, oh wise and wonderful psychic overlord?

As for the 50c per 30 minutes, that's actually a great price.
Which carpark is that?
When I drive to town, I'd generally park in Cornmarket and it's a €2 minimum.

Now regarding my time, the fuel costs and my preference to travel to Cork rather than dine Al Fresco on our city streets.

The fuel costs should I decide to lunch out in Cork, would you believe they'd be free!
Due to some medical issues, I am lucky(or unlucky) enough to have an FTA with capacity for the Mrs too.

An hr on the train, or the bus. Travelling in comfort should I not fancy a drive.
The freedom to stroll around a far more welcoming and varied streetscape?
Too right I'd rather go to Cork than Limerick at present.

Funnily enough, I'd imagine so would a large portion of people from South Co Limerick and Tipp and North Co Cork, who'd otherwise be equidistant in time/distance from both.

The simple fact here, disregarding the actual cost involved in any portion of the parking/travel is that barring very few stores and a couple of restaurants there is no draw to Limerick and when a nearby city makes the fairly simple step of allowing some form of free parking?
It will resonate with quite a few people who'd be out to lunch, shop or even just browse.
I would quite honestly rather travel to Cork, than hop on the 304 and spend my time or indeed money in Limerick City Centre during the daytime.

During the evening, I'd marginally prefer Limerick but only as it's far easier to get home after closing time from Costello's than it is Gorbies.

I look forward to you explaining what my point is

So it's nothing to do with free parking and you just prefer cork for a wander around during the day?

banie01

Cetyl Palmitate wrote: »

So it's nothing to do with free parking and you just prefer cork for a wander around during the day?

That this is what you have taken from that post, apparently skipping the below?
Is both odd and strangely defensive, why?

Now to break it down a little further for you.
I live 5 minutes bus/car and probably 40 minutes walk from the city centre.

I am the type of person with free time and disposable income who would quite happily wander around a city centre, browsing, shopping, lunching and snacking.

Yet I'd rather travel to Cork, not for free parking but for a far more interesting and varied retail, restaurant and streetscape offering.

There is no draw in to Limerick city centre apart from the Milk Market.
The retail offering in the city is poor, the food choices are a little better but not enough to warrant me wanting to sit outside and partake.
Perhaps a takeaway and home, or to the park but other than that?
What is there, that someone from one of our counties rural towns would come to Limerick for?

Limerick needs to be targeting it's entire hinterland, as I said earlier, North Cork, South Tipp, North Kerry and Clare as well as just Limerick county and the suburbs.

A huge number of people live within both 60-70 minutes of Cork and Limerick.
What can Limerick do, to bring those shoppers here rather than there?
Cork have recognised an opportunity to get some footfall in the city and have offered free parking as a sweetener.

Limerick, well Limerick seems to have shrugged and taken an attitude of it's a local town for local people.
I get not wanting to incentivise people driving in to the city centre from rhebogue for the free parking.
However what about folks from Charleville or Adare? Do we not want their business?

Most Clare people would rather shop in Ennis or Galway than come to Limerick.
Why? It can't just be the retail offering.
Even many Limerick people will do the same. Locals would and do often shop elsewhere than stay local.

Forks and parklets aren't going to reinvigorate a cityscape that is without any real anchor, no actual shopping precinct or district and whose city centre altho quite small and potentially attractive is very disjointed.

banie01 wrote: »

.

Funnily enough, I'd imagine so would a large portion of people from South Co Limerick and Tipp and North Co Cork, who'd otherwise be equidistant in time/distance from both.

The simple fact here, disregarding the actual cost involved in any portion of the parking/travel is that barring very few stores and a couple of restaurants there is no draw to Limerick and when a nearby city makes the fairly simple step of allowing some form of free parking?
It will resonate with quite a few people who'd be out to lunch, shop or even just browse.
I would quite honestly rather travel to Cork, than hop on the 304 and spend my time or indeed money in Limerick City Centre during the daytime.

Reputable Rog

ChewBerecca wrote: »

Never had an issue getting parking at a multistorey unless its a Heineken cup day.

Always plenty of space on the upper levels because people don't seem to realise there's floors other than the first one.

But I do agree with your second point, prices are ridiculous. In Dundrum its 3 euro flat rate for the first 3 hours, sometimes free, to encourage people to stay longer and get a bite to eat.

It was a condition of Dundrum’s planning that they charge for parking.

Cetyl Palmitate

banie01 wrote: »

I was going to post regarding this.
My Mrs was down there yesterday and same thing.
2hrs free city centre parking, rates after 2 hrs also reduced.

A simple and effective way to draw people into the city centre.

As for Limerick's forks and parklets, it's nice to see some kind of effort.
That said, Al fresco dining in the city centre isn't going to have me heading in.
TBH, I'd rather drive to Cork.

banie01 wrote: »

That this is what you have taken from that post, apparently skipping the below?
Is both odd and strangely defensive, why?

Now to break it down a little further for you.
I live 5 minutes bus/car and probably 40 minutes walk from the city centre.

I am the type of person with free time and disposable income who would quite happily wander around a city centre, browsing, shopping, lunching and snacking.

Yet I'd rather travel to Cork, not for free parking but for a far more interesting and varied retail, restaurant and streetscape offering.

There is no draw in to Limerick city centre apart from the Milk Market.
The retail offering in the city is poor, the food choices are a little better but not enough to warrant me wanting to sit outside and partake.
Perhaps a takeaway and home, or to the park but other than that?
What is there, that someone from one of our counties rural towns would come to Limerick for?

Limerick needs to be targeting it's entire hinterland, as I said earlier, North Cork, South Tipp, North Kerry and Clare as well as just Limerick county and the suburbs.

A huge number of people live within both 60-70 minutes of Cork and Limerick.
What can Limerick do, to bring those shoppers here rather than there?
Cork have recognised an opportunity to get some footfall in the city and have offered free parking as a sweetener.

Limerick, well Limerick seems to have shrugged and taken an attitude of it's a local town for local people.
I get not wanting to incentivise people driving in to the city centre from rhebogue for the free parking.
However what about folks from Charleville or Adare? Do we not want their business?

Most Clare people would rather shop in Ennis or Galway than come to Limerick.
Why? It can't just be the retail offering.
Even many Limerick people will do the same. Locals would and do often shop elsewhere than stay local.

Forks and parklets aren't going to reinvigorate a cityscape that is without any real anchor, no actual shopping precinct or district and whose city centre altho quite small and potentially attractive is very disjointed.

I guess my point was that you said free parking was a simple and effective way to draw people to a city center but at the same time said that free parking would not draw you to Limerick as you believe Cork, Galway, Ennis have a better offering.

And I would agree that Cork and Galway have better city center offerings at the moment.

Car dominance in Limerick is, in my opinion, the single biggest issue facing the city. Too many streets in the city center are 4 (or more) lanes for cars, 2 (or more) driving, 2 parking. Long, straight, wide roads encourage high speeds. The parklet on O'Connell st, while welcome, is vulnerable to this. I regularly see cars travelling at 50kmh+ if not stopped at the lights outside penneys.

Illegal parking is also rampant and largely unpunished given the number of tickets issued annually.

All of this leads to a hostile environment for pedestrians.

geotrig

While car dominance might be one of many an issue ,there is a whole lot of other crap I'd see as bigger issues . I cant say cork (Maybe offers a bit more now but always found a lot cork people quiet rude) ,galway(overrated everything ) , ennis(well its ennis like !) has any appeal to me in the slightest.

Cookiemunster

geotrig wrote: »

While car dominance might be one of many an issue ,there is a whole lot of other crap I'd see as bigger issues . I cant say cork (Maybe offers a bit more now but always found a lot cork people quiet rude) ,galway(overrated everything ) , ennis(well its ennis like !) has any appeal to me in the slightest.

Those cities (and town) also have huge issues with car dominance. There probably isn't anywhere in Ireland that doesn't. There was also uproar in Cork when they tried closing Patrick St to traffic.

geotrig

if these parklettes are built /implemented to a high quality they could be a very nice addition , lets hope its nicer than the attempt that was outside pennies. i still think there could work if they put more thought into it

banie01

Cetyl Palmitate wrote: »

I guess my point was that you said free parking was a simple and effective way to draw people to a city center but at the same time said that free parking would not draw you to Limerick as you believe Cork, Galway, Ennis have a better offering.

And I would agree that Cork and Galway have better city center offerings at the moment.

Car dominance in Limerick is, in my opinion, the single biggest issue facing the city. Too many streets in the city center are 4 (or more) lanes for cars, 2 (or more) driving, 2 parking. Long, straight, wide roads encourage high speeds. The parklet on O'Connell st, while welcome, is vulnerable to this. I regularly see cars travelling at 50kmh+ if not stopped at the lights outside penneys.

Illegal parking is also rampant and largely unpunished given the number of tickets issued annually.

All of this leads to a hostile environment for pedestrians.

Would 100% agree that car dominance and lax parking enforcement are an issue in Limerick City centre.
There is quite a habit of short hops that are better off via bus or foot.

As big an issue from certain interpretation of the recent pedestrianisation fiasco could be seen to be that a cohort of city centre businesses seem to want to maintain that level of car access to the city centre. Rather than improve their offering or embrace a more pedestrian orientated streetscape.

As if people driving to the city centre and double parking to "run in" will keep their business viable.

Far more likely IMO to have an improvement on city centre footfall, would be a continuation of the Xmas park and rides and a campaign of free multi-storey parking.

The really is a focus in Limerick on the immediate suburbs and vicinity as the audience for Limerick.
That's a completely blinkered view IMO.
As I said earlier, Limerick's cachement area overlaps in a large portion with Cork and tbf since the M18 was completed with Galway too.

Large numbers of Rural and even suburban local to Limerick dwellers would rather travel much further afield for a better streetscape and shopping experience than head into town.

There is a responsibility on the Council to adequately address this, and tbh each and every one of the recent city centre improvement plans start off with great vision and IMO tend to be watered down too far when it opens up to public consultation and Businesses object.

There's no immediate magic wand to take certain traffic out of our city centre.
Some journeys are currently far easier through town, than around it.
That said, if we are not going to ensure adequate orbital routes.
Then perhaps eliminating large amounts of city centre on street parking?
Replace those with park and ride, and Multistorey.
Really focus on extending the bike scheme to LIT, Raheen, Corbally and improve the cycling access to city centre.

All those actions will certainly improve the access to our city centre and the comfort in there.

If that type of action can be coupled with a coherent astreetscape and an improved retail offering?

Limerick could be great.

As it stands however, there is honestly very little to draw a casual shopper, browser or even just hungry and bored man with disposable income out to our city centre.

ChewBerecca

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Those cities (and town) also have huge issues with car dominance. There probably isn't anywhere in Ireland that doesn't. There was also uproar in Cork when they tried closing Patrick St to traffic.

Cities/large towns are only car dominated because a lot of people have no other choice. Even in Limerick, unless you live on a (decent) bus route you're going to be driving into the city centre. Our buses are dire and a tram/light rail/canal bus from Castleconnell, UL, to city centre and beyond, is almost decades overdue with the expansion of Castletroy.

If you take Dublin as an example, although nowhere near where it should be in terms of a major European city with regards public transport, the majority of people working or shopping/socialising in the city centre use public transport of some form, even if its a park and ride, because its there and normally running every 15-30 mins from early until late, 7 days a week.

Cetyl Palmitate

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Those cities (and town) also have huge issues with car dominance. There probably isn't anywhere in Ireland that doesn't. There was also uproar in Cork when they tried closing Patrick St to traffic.

Yes. Agree to a point.

I am not advocating large scale pedestrianisation. Just a shift in usability in favour of pedestrians.

Traffic needs to be slowed down not by speed limits but through infrastructure. The 25kmh advisory speed limit is toothless as the roads are so wide drivers feel that speed is too slow.
This is already the case on Harveys quay. 30kmh limit largly ignored. Take a look at the tarmac just after the downslopes of the existing speed ramps to get an idea of how fast cars travel over them! And that is supposed to be 'Shared space'.

So more pedestrians crossings. eg. there is not 1 pedestrian crossing to take you from one side of O'Connell street to the other.
There have been small improvements made in this regard like the junction of Roches st and Catherine street.

Thomas street, bedford row and catherine street (to Roches St. junction), while not perfect, are better examples of how we could use the space in the city center. Cars, deliveries etc allowed but narrow motor lanes naturally slow cars.

fran38

Are the traffic wardens back out around?

banie01

fran38 wrote: »

Are the traffic wardens back out around?

Yes, I don't know when they started but noticed a couple out and about today.

mdmix

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Those cities (and town) also have huge issues with car dominance. There probably isn't anywhere in Ireland that doesn't. There was also uproar in Cork when they tried closing Patrick St to traffic.

while the rest if Ireland is just as car dependant, other cities are more pedestrian friendly, usually by accident rather than design. Galway has shop street and eyre square, and the narrow streets encourage driving at slower speeds. In Cork, at least there is a push to pedestrianise Patrick street. Patrick street itself no longer allows parking and then footpaths take up more space than the road.

One of the main issues with Oconnell street Limerick is the wide straight streets encourage drivers to speed up, even if there are lights at most junctions. I have lost count of the amount of cars that ended up in basements or inside in cafes

Cookiemunster

mdmix wrote: »

while the rest if Ireland is just as car dependant, other cities are more pedestrian friendly, usually by accident rather than design. Galway has shop street and eyre square, and the narrow streets encourage driving at slower speeds. In Cork, at least there is a push to pedestrianise Patrick street. Patrick street itself no longer allows parking and then footpaths take up more space than the road.

One of the main issues with Oconnell street Limerick is the wide straight streets encourage drivers to speed up, even if there are lights at most junctions. I have lost count of the amount of cars that ended up in basements or inside in cafes

Patrick St in Cork has two way traffic, taxi ranks and loading bays. The traders there too kicked up blue murder when the council tried to ban car traffic last Christmas. O'Connell St is soon to have wider footpaths, no parking, loading bays or taxi ranks on the core section and only one traffic lane and one bus lane.

geotrig

I'd rather be knocked down than walk down shop street :pac:

Glenomra

In cork this week. Not a good experience. Much prefer limerick city and speaking as a Clare man.

MilfordBud

mdmix wrote: »

I have lost count of the amount of cars that ended up in basements or inside in cafes

Is this a thing? Never heard of it.

Insect Overlord

MilfordBud wrote: »

Is this a thing? Never heard of it.

It's happened a couple of times near Mallow Street/Catherine Street rather than O'Connell Street, as far as I can remember.

mdmix

MilfordBud wrote: »

Is this a thing? Never heard of it.

Not O’Connell street, but this isint the only time a car went into a basement in the last few years. Another car went into cafe solo and I have seen 1 car that flipped outside AIB.

https://www.limerickpost.ie/2017/11/04/woman-lucky-escape-city-crash/

banie01

Insect Overlord wrote: »

It's happened a couple of times near Mallow Street/Catherine Street rather than O'Connell Street, as far as I can remember.

Twice into the same basement there as far as I can remember.

I do recall a car hitting Leavys on the Shannon St/O'Connell St junction recently.
So counting the other incident of the flipped car, that's 2 incidents on the main Street.

mdmix wrote: »

.

One of the main issues with Oconnell street Limerick is the wide straight streets encourage drivers to speed up, even if there are lights at most junctions. I have lost count of the amount of cars that ended up in basements or inside in cafes

What crashes into basements and cafés have happened on O'Connell St?

When?

Edit:
NVM MdMix
Cafe Solo crash in 2012.

Treehelpplease

Glenomra wrote: »

In cork this week. Not a good experience. Much prefer limerick city and speaking as a Clare man.

What made your experience bad?

un5byh7sqpd2x0

Treehelpplease wrote: »

What made your experience bad?

The langers one presumes.

Mc Love

geotrig wrote: »

I'd rather be knocked down than walk down shop street :pac:

That can be arranged.

YFlyer

MilfordBud wrote: »

Is this a thing? Never heard of it.

A car drove into the pub in Watergate Flats. Driver got refused entry before the crash.

Reputable Rog

YFlyer wrote: »

A car drove into the pub in Watergate Flats. Driver got refused entry before the crash.

Urban myth, I used to drink there around that time.
Joyriders crashed into bollards outside the pub and set the car alight, it happened around 3.00am and had nothing to do with people being refused entry to the Molyneaux.

YFlyer

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Urban myth, I used to drink there around that time.
Joyriders crashed into bollards outside the pub and set the car alight, it happened around 3.00am and had nothing to do with people being refused entry to the Molyneaux.

Those bollards were put up there after the incident as far as I recalled. Was it also an urban myth that one of the customers used to have his wicked ways with the bar maid and all others helped themselves with drinks?

Reputable Rog

YFlyer wrote: »

Those bollards were put up there after the incident as far as I recalled. Was it also an urban myth that one of the customers used to have his wicked ways with the bar maid and all others helped themselves with drinks?

Yes. The proprietor at the time ran a good house.
On the incident with the car, it never actually hit the building, it was wedged in the bollards.

Cetyl Palmitate

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/557509/limerick-retailers-report-marked-increase-in-trade-thanks-to-free-parking.html

Oh well. Looks like free parking has solved the problem already. Maybe the few areas left without parking need to be remodelled to get more punters in.