Limerick improvement projects

Mc Love

TPMP wrote: »

As someone who commutes into Limerick every day from the Clare side, I think you're drastically undermining the importance of that second inbound lane on the Shannon bridge. There's no over reacting. I respect your opinion though and the next few weeks will tell a lot. I'd love to be proven wrong.

Is that because drivers zoom up the left hand lane and go all the way around the roundabout?

My aul pal phog wanted me to go stand at the roundabout one morning to observe it. The amount of cars using the right hand lane far outweighed the number using the left hand lane (now the cycle lane)

Cookiemunster

Mc Love wrote: »

Is that because drivers zoom up the left hand lane and go all the way around the roundabout?

My aul pal phog wanted me to go stand at the roundabout one morning to observe it. The amount of cars using the right hand lane far outweighed the number using the left hand lane (now the cycle lane)

So are you saying that you did actually do a survey of the traffic, or are you still making it up based on your personal biases?

martyc5674

TPMP wrote: »

As someone who commutes into Limerick every day from the Clare side, I think you're drastically undermining the importance of that second inbound lane on the Shannon bridge. There's no over reacting. I respect your opinion though and the next few weeks will tell a lot. I'd love to be proven wrong.

The issue is the dock road- ive never seen traffic backed up trying to get onto the quays or onto mallow street from the roundabout.
2 thirds of traffic going over the bridge are headed out the dock road.
Providing the second lane as a motor lane, allows vehicles to undertake all the traffic backed up turning right, but it is not the correct solution, the solution needs to be focused on utilizing the tunnel.
Giving the additional lane to motorists puts a sticky plaster on the dock road issue @ the expense of taking space off people willing to use a sustainable form of transport- that is simply the wrong way to approach the matter.

People are avoiding the tunnel going from shannon to raheen daily, it has not been made a viable option for them or else they dont mind sitting in their cars for half an hour to save 2€.

Cookiemunster

The tunnel is being utilised. The idea that it's not is a fallacy. Over 25k vehicles a day before the lockdown. And that's a 365 day average, so a lot more that that on weekdays. Plenty of road users would be going a long distance out of their way to use the tunnel. They wouldn't use it even if it was free as it's not the shortest or quickest route for them to use.

martyc5674

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The tunnel is being utilised. The idea that it's not is a fallacy. Over 25k vehicles a day before the lockdown. Plenty of road users would be going a long distance out of their way to use the tunnel. They wouldn't use it even if it was free as it's not the shortest or quickest route for them to use.

It can be used more... if you are travelling from anywhere beyond clonmacken towards raheen you should be using it, i know plenty doing this trip who dont, im sure you do too. they dont because its expensive, or they dont mind spending extra time in the car to save 40€ a week, which i understand.

Edit: Id love to see the tunnel charge being removed for a few weeks to see the uptake/difference on the dock road.

Cookiemunster

martyc5674 wrote: »

It can be used more... if you are travelling from anywhere beyond clonmacken towards raheen you should be using it, i know plenty doing this trip who dont, im sure you do too. they dont because its expensive, or they dont mind spending extra time in the car to save 40€ a week, which i understand.

You personally know plenty, which in actual fact won't be a lot of people compared to the numbers actually using it. Yes there are toll dodgers, but the vast majority traveling from Shannon/Ennis will use the tunnel.

There are still thousands of commuters though from the North side of the city, who will never use the tunnel because it brings then out of their way and traveling over the Shannon Bridge and out the Dock road is faster. Making the tunnel free won't change this.

thesimpsons

Seeing the tunnel as a saviour to the city is the same as thinking M&S would save the city centre. I think in the past alot of cars would have used the left lane on bridge and then zoom in, but don't see that too much now. What I do notice is many cars going out Dock Road from the bridge but subsequently turning left up to Henry St, to the schools up there or onto O'Connell ave. Live close enough to tunnel but its of no use to 90% of my journeys. Love to see me being proven wrong, but I see chaos when schools go back.

I'd perfer to see cyclists in normal traffic lanes to normalize cycling instead of trying to section us off onto inadequate specialized lanes

martyc5674

Cookiemunster wrote: »

You personally know plenty, which in actual fact won't be a lot of people compared to the numbers actually using it. Yes there are toll dodgers, but the vast majority traveling from Shannon/Ennis will use the tunnel.

There are still thousands of commuters though from the North side of the city, who will never use the tunnel because it brings then out of their way and traveling over the Shannon Bridge and out the Dock road is faster. Making the tunnel free won't change this.

I disagree - the last 2 places I worked (both shannon direction) there were more people avoiding the tunnel than using it.
Some would use it all the time, but most would avoid using it in the mornings and use it just the evenings that are perceived as busy.

mgbgt1978

martyc5674 wrote: »

Yes the lights regulate between condell road and lower shelbourne.
Nothing has changed here- both roads cannot access the bridge @ the same time, so why the need for 2 lanes inbound??
If traffic is built up it is because of the dock road being overused in preference of the tunnel.
Usually as you get closer to a built up area the number of lanes decrease not increase.

Possibly because 30/40% of the people using the bridge would like to go straight on to Lower Mallow street, or go left onto the Quays to continue their commute.


Regardless, it's a ridiculous project. Once the occasional Cyclist has crossed the Bridge (using the Cycle Lane hopefully) they are completely at the mercy of the Limerick City Traffic System. It's almost comparable to putting Fish into a Barrel before shooting them.

And please don't come back with any 'at least it's a start' nonsense.
Firstly, most Cyclists would have to actually go out of their way to use this lane.
Secondly, have a look at the Ennis road (from the JFK School to the Strand hotel) at 5 am any morning. There won't even be 10 cars parked there. This indicates that when this road is full of parked cars after 8am they are all commuters utilising the free parking and walking into the City to work. This is where the City Council should place Cycle Lanes.


A simple Bicycle-only "footbridge" could be built alongside Sarsfield bridge, and possibly even tie in with whatever UL decide to put in the old Dunnes Stores.


Anyway, the whole Shannon bridge concept is not worth discussing as once Traffic Levels get back to normal this Cycle Lane will quietly disappear.

martyc5674

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Possibly because 30/40% of the people using the bridge would like to go straight on to Lower Mallow street, or go left onto the Quays to continue their commute.


Regardless, it's a ridiculous project. Once the occasional Cyclist has crossed the Bridge (using the Cycle Lane hopefully) they are completely at the mercy of the Limerick City Traffic System. It's almost comparable to putting Fish into a Barrel before shooting them.

And please don't come back with any 'at least it's a start' nonsense.
Firstly, most Cyclists would have to actually go out of their way to use this lane.
Secondly, have a look at the Ennis road (from the JFK School to the Strand hotel) at 5 am any morning. There won't even be 10 cars parked there. This indicates that when this road is full of parked cars after 8am they are all commuters utilising the free parking and walking into the City to work. This is where the City Council should place Cycle Lanes.


A simple Bicycle-only "footbridge" could be built alongside Sarsfield bridge, and possibly even tie in with whatever UL decide to put in the old Dunnes Stores.


Anyway, the whole Shannon bridge concept is not worth discussing as once Traffic Levels get back to normal this Cycle Lane will quietly disappear.

Well the 30-40% you mention are being held up by the 60 or 70% who are going out the dock road. Sort out the dock road and the bridge gets sorted.

I explained a few posts back why we must keep it even though far from ideal.

kilburn

My eyes are starting to glaze over we all agree.

Cycling good, cycle lane bad, car good, lane closed bad, tunnel good, won't pay to use it bad.

martyc5674

kilburn wrote: »

My eyes are starting to glaze over we all agree.

Cycling good, cycle lane bad, car good, lane closed bad, tunnel good, won't pay to use it bad.

Nail on the head- we all know it’s the way forward, but some don’t want to share the space.

mgbgt1978

martyc5674 wrote: »

Well the 30-40% you mention are being held up by the 60 or 70% who are going out the dock road. Sort out the dock road and the bridge gets sorted.

I explained a few posts back why we must keep it even though far from ideal.

It's 'Rush Hour traffic' Marty. They call it that for a reason.
I fail to see how inconveniencing hundreds (probably thousands) of Commuters to facilitate a handful of other commuters is in any way a progressive move.

Even more so when other options are available....I even pointed one out on my last Post .

martyc5674

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

It's 'Rush Hour traffic' Marty. They call it that for a reason.
I fail to see how inconveniencing hundreds (probably thousands) of Commuters to facilitate a handful of other commuters is in any way a progressive move.

Even more so when other options are available....I even pointed one out on my last Post .

Rushing where? To join the dock road car park.

Inconvenience V safety. I know which one wins.

They are great options you mention, and I’d love to see them instead of this - but they are not going to happen with the current executive , this one we actually have and I explained earlier why we can’t leave it go.

The reality of it is we need to shift our habits to sustainable ones- there will be some pain felt along the way.

Mc Love

Its rush hour traffic - so for the sake of an hour/30 mins in the morning, we cant have one cycle lane on one bridge?

un5byh7sqpd2x0

martyc5674 wrote: »

I disagree - the last 2 places I worked (both shannon direction) there were more people avoiding the tunnel than using it.
Some would use it all the time, but most would avoid using it in the mornings and use it just the evenings that are perceived as busy.

+1 I live in Raheen, work in Shannon. I use the tunnel in the mornings and the Condell/Dock Road in the evening.

martyc5674

Kyleigh CoolS Synthesizer wrote: »

+1 I live in Raheen, work in Shannon. I use the tunnel in the mornings and the Condell/Dock Road in the evening.

Ok so obviously you find it faster if you use it.
What’s your logic?- 2 quid = extra few minutes in the morning?
I found most did the opposite to you but we started ~7:30 so time advantage in the morning wasn’t as great as the evening.

Also I take it if it was free you would use it all the time?
I’m sure there are loads Like you travelling raheen - Shannon.

Mc Love

My OH was working in Shannon and would chose to pay the 2 euro instead of travel through the city.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

martyc5674 wrote: »

Ok so obviously you find it faster if you use it.
What’s your logic?- 2 quid = extra few minutes in the morning?
I found most did the opposite to you but we started ~7:30 so time advantage in the morning wasn’t as great as the evening.

Also I take it if it was free you would use it all the time?
I’m sure there are loads Like you travelling raheen - Shannon.

Yeah, I start at 9 and the Dock Road inbound is chronic at the time I leave (8:35) as I'm an late riser. On the way home it takes an extra 10 mins or so, but I save the €1.90 and I'm in no rush.

bigpink

The kids cycle Bus while I love the idea why aren't they going to school on that side of the city?Seems to be a hipster vibe from them

Mc Love

bigpink wrote: »

The kids cycle Bus while I love the idea why aren't they going to school on that side of the city?Seems to be a hipster vibe from them

Because they are going to the Educate Together and other schools - its their choice surely, but to call them hipster? Why?

un5byh7sqpd2x0

To add, people I work with from out Dromkeen direction go through town both ways for at 8:00/4:30 shift

pajoguy

Worked 9 to 5 in shannon for years and was very glad when the tunnel opened. Travelling from just south of patrickswell I used it every morning and evening. Avoided 9 roundabouts and 2 sets of traffic lights plus the extra 6km each way in rush hour traffic. Driving over the flyove on dock road at 8.30 and traffic backed up out the n69 as far as the eye could see most mornings. Evenings might have been easier but always thought it a waste of time to drive through city.

Mc Love

Gridlock was unreal this morning

https://twitter.com/CyclingBusLmk/status/1298924501284118533?s=19

kilburn

To be fair most of the schools are not back until next week so cant really use that as a benchmark

mitresize5

and were in the middle of a pandemic with a huge amount of the work force working from home

bigpink

Wow no high Viz or lights bit dangerous

thesimpsons

I'd love to see how the cycle bus handled the end of the bridge - I think they need to take exit 3 on the roundabout if I remember rightly.

source

Article in the post stating the cycle lane is staying as is. I didn't get to fully read it yet but that's the gist of what I saw.

phog

Cookiemunster wrote: »

So are you saying that you did actually do a survey of the traffic, or are you still making it up based on your personal biases?

He chickened out as he knew he was on a hiding to nothing with his false claim.