Limerick improvement projects

zulutango

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Even if we do then the population while urban will be spread around the country. You have Waterford, Cork, Galway and large towns like Ennis, Sligo, Dundalk that would take the population as well as Limerick.

That would be dictated by policy and governance (and mismanagement would obviously play a part too). If we are sensible we won't spread the population out among many towns. That would be fairly ****e economic and spatial planning.

Cookiemunster

zulutango wrote: »

That would be dictated by policy and governance (and mismanagement would obviously play a part too). If we are sensible we won't spread the population out among many towns. That would be fairly ****e economic and spatial planning.

Ireland doesn't need another 1m plus city as a counterpoint to Dublin. It needs proper regional development with places like Limerick, Galway and Waterford going above 200,000 and places like Ennis, Sligo and Dundalk hitting 100,000. Dublin proves that putting everything in one basket doesn't work.

zulutango

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Ireland doesn't need another 1m plus city as a counterpoint to Dublin. It needs proper regional development with places like Limerick, Galway and Waterford going above 200,000 and places like Ennis, Sligo and Dundalk hitting 100,000. Dublin proves that putting everything in one basket doesn't work.

It would be silly to spread it out like that. The infrastructures costs would be far greater than they need to be.

marno21

A Cork-Limerick motorway would make the two cities an excellent counterbalance to Dublin, with 2 airports, 2 major ports and 2 cities within 100km of each other.

But instead our government is more fixated on covering Wexford with motorways and our local TDs don't give a ****e either.

Cookiemunster

zulutango wrote: »

It would be silly to spread it out like that. The infrastructures costs would be far greater than they need to be.

Other than the M20 the transport infrastructure is already there or under construction.

Cookiemunster

marno21 wrote: »

A Cork-Limerick motorway would make the two cities an excellent counterbalance to Dublin, with 2 airports, 2 major ports and 2 cities within 100km of each other.

But instead our government is more fixated on covering Wexford with motorways and our local TDs don't give a ****e either.

Exactly. Next year Limerick and Galway will be less than an hour apart by motorway, with Ennis in the middle. This should be a start to creating a counterbalance, but the M20 is badly needed too.

zulutango

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Other than the M20 the transport infrastructure is already there or under construction.

There's other infrastructure to consider too. Hospitals, airports, schools, water treatment, electrical grid and countless others.

cgcsb

Not sure about just Moyross, but definitely Limerick would be a prime candidate city for a 2 line suburban rail system, with it's abandoned/under used railways.

Line 1: starting at Raheen business park, stopping at the very end of Doradoyle Rod, another south of the old crescent RFC, another at a new park and ride where the Rosbrien road meets the N18, another at Childer's Road and a new line spurring off the old railway and turning north east passed Carey's Road Park and terminating in Colbert Station.

Line 1a: branching off line 1 south of the N18 stopping at the Crescent SC/Ballinacurra road, another stop at the estates behind FR Russel Road and finallly a terminus and park and ride station at the Raheed Roundabout on the N69.

Line 2: starting at Colbert with the first stop at a new park n ride at the Tipperary Road roundabout, another at Parkway Shopping Centre, another at Corbally road and a last stop park and ride at Moyross.

Have a 15 minute frequency and improve the rail quality to allow for sub 20 minute journeys end to end. If you can get from Colbert to the end of either line in 20 minutes that'd get people out of their cars.

MrJones2013

cgcsb wrote: »

Not sure about just Moyross, but definitely Limerick would be a prime candidate city for a 2 line suburban rail system, with it's abandoned/under used railways.

Line 1: starting at Raheen business park, stopping at the very end of Doradoyle Rod, another south of the old crescent RFC, another at a new park and ride where the Rosbrien road meets the N18, another at Childer's Road and a new line spurring off the old railway and turning north east passed Carey's Road Park and terminating in Colbert Station.

Line 1a: branching off line 1 south of the N18 stopping at the Crescent SC/Ballinacurra road, another stop at the estates behind FR Russel Road and finallly a terminus and park and ride station at the Raheed Roundabout on the N69.

Line 2: starting at Colbert with the first stop at a new park n ride at the Tipperary Road roundabout, another at Parkway Shopping Centre, another at Corbally road and a last stop park and ride at Moyross.

Have a 15 minute frequency and improve the rail quality to allow for sub 20 minute journeys end to end. If you can get from Colbert to the end of either line in 20 minutes that'd get people out of their cars.

I'd use this if we had it

The only area it wouldn't fully serve is the Castletroy area only as far as the Parkway. Also I think all these lines are single track? So one way at a time only!

flyingsnail

MrJones2013 wrote: »

I'd use this if we had it

The only area it wouldn't fully serve is the Castletroy area only as far as the Parkway. Also I think all these lines are single track? So one way at a time only!

also the alignment that would allow the lines from Raheen to enter Colbert station has been built on at careys road

Cookiemunster

zulutango wrote: »

There's other infrastructure to consider too. Hospitals, airports, schools, water treatment, electrical grid and countless others.

There are enough airports on the island already to deal with any population growth. The electrical grid would have to be expanded and new hospitals and schools built whichever option occurred. Cities of 100,000 and above can justify the infrastructure.

zulutango

Cookiemunster wrote: »

There are enough airports on the island already to deal with any population growth. The electrical grid would have to be expanded and new hospitals and schools built whichever option occurred. Cities of 100,000 and above can justify the infrastructure.

I think you missed my point. If you spread the population out then you end up having way more infrastructure than you would otherwise need if you concentrated the population in a few urban centres. It costs a lot to develop and maintain, and isn't good planning.

cgcsb

MrJones2013 wrote: »

I'd use this if we had it

The only area it wouldn't fully serve is the Castletroy area only as far as the Parkway. Also I think all these lines are single track? So one way at a time only!

There's plenty of room for double track along most of it, where there isn't it shouldn't be a problem because the distances are short and a city like Limerick would only really need a 15 minute frequency service anyway, easily doable, especially with a modern signalling system.

MrJones2013

cgcsb wrote: »

There's plenty of room for double track along most of it, where there isn't it shouldn't be a problem because the distances are short and a city like Limerick would only really need a 15 minute frequency service anyway, easily doable, especially with a modern signalling system.

It would be great to see something like this implemented but that would require forward thinking and that seems to be confined to the good folks on boards.ie and not those with the power to make change!

cgcsb

flyingsnail wrote: »

also the alignment that would allow the lines from Raheen to enter Colbert station has been built on at careys road

As far as I can see there is only one structure in the way and it appears to be derelict

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1FbzW4imXXxlpO37StHx6kpV0MPw&usp=sharing

Jimmy Garlic

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Ireland doesn't need another 1m plus city as a counterpoint to Dublin. It needs proper regional development with places like Limerick, Galway and Waterford going above 200,000 and places like Ennis, Sligo and Dundalk hitting 100,000. Dublin proves that putting everything in one basket doesn't work.

Incentivising the expansion of Ennis shouldn't be a priority at all given it is only half an hour from Limerick. Letterkenny should be improved infrastructurally. The North West has been completely abandoned by every government.

source

Just one point on the Shannon rail link, yes the airport does not have many flights but there are thousands of people working in the airport and the business/industrial parks around it, including me.

If I had a competitivly priced rail service which got me to work on time I'd definitely use it, as would most of the people I work with who commute from the city, that's about 150 people in 1 business, on one floor of a building that services about 600-700 people. The sheer volume of weekday commuters alone would make the line viable. It also appears to be the one group constantly overlooked whenever this topic is discussed.

I know there's a bus service but they run every half an hour from town and personally to get to work on time getting the bus I'd either be there for 08:20 or 08:45ish (approx) then a 15 minute walk to my office. So the car is my only option.

Cookiemunster

I commute from Limerick to Shannon every day too, but there's no way I'd use even a direct train. I can get from door to door in 25 minutes in my car. There's not a hope that would be achievable by any train, especially when you add in the commute to/from the station at either end. There's no guarantee a station would be any closer than the bus stop to your place of work.

Also any place I've worked in Shannon over the last 20 years has only had between 1/3 and 1/2 of its staff from Limerick. Most are either from Shannon or other parts of Clare.

zulutango

Cookiemunster wrote:

Also any place I've worked in Shannon over the last 20 years has only had between 1/3 and 1/2 of its staff from Limerick. Most are either from Shannon or other parts of Clare.

Maybe they'd live in Limerick if there was a decent rail link? And especially so in the context of Limerick being a bigger and better city than it is now, which is what we should be planning to be.

Cookiemunster

zulutango wrote: »

Maybe they'd live in Limerick if there was a decent rail link? And especially so in the context of Limerick being a bigger and better city than it is now, which is what we should be planning to be.

They're from Clare. There are nearly 10,000 people living in Shannon and 25,000 living in Ennis. Then there's the people from Sixmilebridge, Newmarket-on-Fergus, Clarecastle etc. and the farmers who have day jobs in Shannon. They have no reason to move to Limerick.

zulutango

Cookiemunster wrote:

They're from Clare. There are nearly 10,000 people living in Shannon and 25,000 living in Ennis. Then there's the people from Sixmilebridge, Newmarket-on-Fergus, Clarecastle etc. and the farmers who have day jobs in Shannon. They have no reason to move to Limerick.

Give them a reason to live in Limerick and they would. It's an imaginary border. It's not like loyalty to the Banner means they can't live anywhere else, not even the big city on their doorstep, ffs.

Bored_lad

zulutango wrote: »

Give them a reason to live in Limerick and they would. It's an imaginary border. It's not like loyalty to the Banner means they can't live anywhere else, not even the big city on their doorstep, ffs.

Why would they move to Limerick? If they want to come into the city they can come in by car or bus in less than half an hour in most cases. Not everyone wants to live in the city.

zulutango

Bored_lad wrote:

Why would they move to Limerick? If they want to come into the city they can come in by car or bus in less than half an hour in most cases. Not everyone wants to live in the city.

There's all kinds of reasons why people would choose to live in a city over a rural life. In Limerick /Midwest it's not popular at the moment. Most people don't see Limerick City life as particularly attractive. But that isn't something that's set in stone. Limerick can, with the right management and ambition, improve.

Figerty

zulutango wrote: »

Give them a reason to live in Limerick and they would. It's an imaginary border. It's not like loyalty to the Banner means they can't live anywhere else, not even the big city on their doorstep, ffs.

You haven't been at a GAA match in a long time so. The resistance to the extension of the boundary into Clare was long resisted along the lines of people not wanting to be part of limerick. GAA boundaries are real imaginary boundaries. Living in Limerick is not on the agenda for most people. House prices tell you that.

There is a route for a decent rail link to the airport, through the industrial estate that could be used...It should be popular, it should be a good alternative but it would parallel to on of the finest roads into an Airport in Ireland, so there is little chance of it getting done.

Mr.H

flyingsnail wrote: »

Given the time it takes the train to go around the city, it is likely to be equal or slower than the bus, cost more and only offer a service every 90 minutes to 2 hours I would consider a station in Moyross very much a non runner.

While I agree on that, I think an option of a Rail network to cover "commuter towns" such as Foynes, Charlville, Newcastle West, Abbeyfeal, Bunrathy, Shannon and I am sure loads more, could be a reasonable idea to look at. It wouldnt need to be a high frequency service at this stage but a real link up separated from the city services would encourage growth among the county and not just the city of Limerick

Mr.H

Figerty wrote: »

You haven't been at a GAA match in a long time so. The resistance to the extension of the boundary into Clare was long resisted along the lines of people not wanting to be part of limerick. GAA boundaries are real imaginary boundaries. Living in Limerick is not on the agenda for most people. House prices tell you that.

There is a route for a decent rail link to the airport, through the industrial estate that could be used...It should be popular, it should be a good alternative but it would parallel to on of the finest roads into an Airport in Ireland, so there is little chance of it getting done.

It would not be considered but its nothing to do with it being a popular choice............. A 20/15 minute trip on a train from the Airport the city center wouldnt be popular with business's and tourists??

If Limerick had a rail link with Shannon Airport then more business's would want to use Shannon and Limerick instead of Dublin as a matter of convenience. Pressure would be put on the government to invest more in Shannon and that would take away from both Dublin Airport and Dublin City. This would have a positive impact on this side of the country but would damage Dublin.

It is a political decision not to link Shannon and Limerick. They had the perfect chance when the opened the WRC and refused to take it even though there where numerous calls for it.

Just because I wear a tin foil hat doesnt mean they arent out to get me

phog

zulutango wrote: »

Give them a reason to live in Limerick and they would. It's an imaginary border. It's not like loyalty to the Banner means they can't live anywhere else, not even the big city on their doorstep, ffs.

Are you for real? There are people from Clare working in Clare and you think some might want to move to a city so they can commute to work by train.

Not everyone wants to live in a city.

J Mysterio

A lot of the stuff in here is completely pie in the sky stuff.

For starters, theres no way Limerick will reach 600k in my lifetime or the next. If it doubles in size it will be an achievement.

The rail link stuff is fairly off the wall aswel. Theres lots of villages that currently have rail access but never use it - Castleconnell for example. That station (while attractive and usefull) is lossmaking.

We cant even sort out the mess by Parkway FFS.

marno21

Those people would possibly commute by train if there was a ****e road like the one from Charleville/Tipp Town going to Limerick. With the N18/M18 going to Limerick they have no intention of getting a slow, infrequent, **** train.

marno21

J Mysterio wrote: »

A lot of the stuff in here is completely pie in the sky stuff.

For starters, theres no way Limerick will reach 600k in my lifetime or the next. If it doubles in size it will be an achievement.

The rail link stuff is fairly off the wall aswel. Theres lots of villages that currently have rail access but never use it - Castleconnell for example. That station (while attractive and usefull) is lossmaking.

We cant even sort out the mess by Parkway FFS.

What mess by the Parkway?