Limerick improvement projects

Cookiemunster

Lads, I suggest having a read through the LSMATS I posted earlier. Better cycling facilites, walking facilities and bus routes through the city are reliant on the LNDR being built. And that's according to the NTA.

Cookiemunster

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Eh, lads, I'm pretty sure the horse is supposed to go in front of the cart...

Whoops

phog

martyc5674 wrote: »

The dock road is the problem, 2 out of 3 cars going over the bridge are going out the dock road.

If I'm driving to the train station, I'll use Shannon Bridge and turn right at the roundabout and then left up Mt Kenneth Place and head up by the park.

That's hardly going out the dock road.

BTW, using the tunnel and then to come back in the Dock Rd isn't a solution either.

kilburn

Surely this will bring Zulutango back put in the open...

What would the cost be to buy out the Toll operator and how would it compare to the annual subsidy in the contract

Parabellum9

How about a network of vietcong like tunnels under the city? The cyclists and whatever else can **** off down there and leave the road network for vehicular traffic like it's intended to be.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

martyc5674 wrote: »

The dock road is the problem, 2 out of 3 cars going over the bridge are going out the dock road.

So the lack of a left lane over the bridge isn’t the problem at all?

Cookiemunster

martyc5674 wrote: »

Disagree- they put the horse before the cart by not addressing the problem years ago.

We are in a situation now for environmental/health reasons that we must push forward with sustainable transport. A bigger problem than having to sit in traffic for a few extra minutes.
And if that means rectifying issues that were ignored for years then so be it. Our environment and our health cannot be put on hold any longer.

Backed up idling traffic is worse for the environment than moving traffic. You need to put in alternatives to car usage through the city before you can start removing traffic lanes. It's not that difficult to understand. And as I've already posted the NTA also have this same attitude.

bazz26

The Limerick Tunnel will never be toll free even after the PP contract laps as it's a revenue stream. The Dublin M50 toll bridge PP contract finished about a decade ago and there is still a toll on it and will continue to be for the same reason.

There is a lot of anti-motorist sentiment in this thread and this forum in general as if removing cars from the road will solve all of our problems. Reality is that motorists get screwed heavily with taxes every year and have done for decades. VRT, VAT, levies on insurance, duty on fuel, motor tax, tolls, carbon taxes, etc all go into the Government's coffers that goes towards paying for other public services such as health care, welfare, public transport or lack of, etc. In general the tax payer here gets a very poor return on their taxes but be very careful what you wish for. Reducing the amount of motorists from the roads will just result in a switching of the revenue stream to other areas of tax revenue such as the self employed, PAYE as well as a host of other indirect and stealth taxes. I'm not saying everyone owes the motorist any favors, far from it, I'm just saying there is a bigger picture here. Removing vehicles is not a silver bullet.

mart 23

The canal bank apartment project is back with ABP . The Parkway project is also with them, brought by the developers.

Cookiemunster

mart 23 wrote: »

The canal bank apartment project is back with ABP . The Parkway project is also with them, brought by the developers.

The Canal Bank project is only gone in for consultation, not a full application.

There was an objection to ABP on the Parkway Valley site from some crowd called Environmental Trust Ireland. They also objected to the council, so this isn't really surprising.

phog

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Lads, I suggest having a read through the LSMATS I posted earlier. Better cycling facilites, walking facilities and bus routes through the city are reliant on the LNDR being built. And that's according to the NTA.

I've always said that, oddly enough, some of the people that want less cars in the city are against building that road.

johnmolloy554

martyc5674 wrote: »

That left Lane is/was a sticky plaster for a bigger problem.
It was not addressing the root of the problem.

And that problem is?

source

phog wrote: »

I've always said that, oddly enough, some of the people that want less cars in the city are against building that road.

Yup, I've also been saying this on here for years, in order to make the changes we all want to see in the city, there needs to be someplace to send the displaced traffic.

If we don't build the LNDR then the traffic volumes will be too high and we won't be able to make the changes we need. Oh, and before anyone brings up development along the LNDR, that can be taken care of in the planning and design stage.

We needed that road 10 years ago.

marno21

bazz26 wrote: »

The Limerick Tunnel will never be toll free even after the PP contract laps as it's a revenue stream. The Dublin M50 toll bridge PP contract finished about a decade ago and there is still a toll on it and will continue to be for the same reason.

The M50 toll was bought out from NTR plc for a cost of €600m. Completely different situation. The toll on the M50 was retained for “traffic management purposes”, but the cost of the bridge has to be paid back too

geotrig

source wrote: »

Yup, I've also been saying this on here for years, in order to make the changes we all want to see in the city, there needs to be someplace to send the displaced traffic.

If we don't build the LNDR then the traffic volumes will be too high and we won't be able to make the changes we need. Oh, and before anyone brings up development along the LNDR, that can be taken care of in the planning and design stage.

We needed that road 10 years ago.

probably longer really. I'm not personally against any moderate development either as I think the northside could do with it ,once its controlled with good planning.
Anyway there hasn't been huge development or much development along the duel carriage way for years and its not like we are beating away developers either .let them develop out here rather than knocking Georgian buildings !

Berty

My house is under the purple line on the LNDR route through Parteen. The route would both negatively affect me(I like my house and neighbourhood) and positively affect me(if it went back to it's original route and I could commute along it) not through my front room.

Am I a NIMBY, a little bit yes and a little bit no because I don't know if it will ever happen and nobody knocked on my door asking me to get out of the way. I dont' know how compulsory purchase orders work and don't wish to find out.

mdmix

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Backed up idling traffic is worse for the environment than moving traffic. You need to put in alternatives to car usage through the city before you can start removing traffic lanes. It's not that difficult to understand. And as I've already posted the NTA also have this same attitude.

Well its a great thing we built an alternative 10 years ago. Now we need to start removing traffic lanes in the city to incentivise people to use it.

mdmix

bazz26 wrote: »

The Limerick Tunnel will never be toll free even after the PP contract laps as it's a revenue stream. The Dublin M50 toll bridge PP contract finished about a decade ago and there is still a toll on it and will continue to be for the same reason.

There is a lot of anti-motorist sentiment in this thread and this forum in general as if removing cars from the road will solve all of our problems. Reality is that motorists get screwed heavily with taxes every year and have done for decades. VRT, VAT, levies on insurance, duty on fuel, motor tax, tolls, carbon taxes, etc all go into the Government's coffers that goes towards paying for other public services such as health care, welfare, public transport or lack of, etc. In general the tax payer here gets a very poor return on their taxes but be very careful what you wish for. Reducing the amount of motorists from the roads will just result in a switching of the revenue stream to other areas of tax revenue such as the self employed, PAYE as well as a host of other indirect and stealth taxes. I'm not saying everyone owes the motorist any favors, far from it, I'm just saying there is a bigger picture here. Removing vehicles is not a silver bullet.

The average cost of running a family car is 10k per year according to the AA. Considering the cars and fuel are imported, I think removing cars from the road would do wonders for the economy. Considering most families have 2 cars (sometimes more), imagine what Limerick would be like if every family suddenly had an extra 10k (or close to that minus the cost of a bike/bus pass) per year to spend

mart 23

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The Canal Bank project is only gone in for consultation, not a full application.

There was an objection to ABP on the Parkway Valley site from some crowd called Environmental Trust Ireland. They also objected to the council, so this isn't really surprising.

I assume they are An Taisce people under a different name.

Could a Limerick traffic improvement projects thread be opened and leave this thread for buildings etc projects.

AnonZen

Out of curiosity, does anyone know the working population split between residents and commuters from outside the city/suburbs?

Appreciate I've worded that horrendously.

phog

mdmix wrote: »

The average cost of running a family car is 10k per year according to the AA. Considering the cars and fuel are imported, I think removing cars from the road would do wonders for the economy. Considering most families have 2 cars (sometimes more), imagine what Limerick would be like if every family suddenly had an extra 10k (or close to that minus the cost of a bike/bus pass) per year to spend

When I have public transport that will allow me get into town at times that suit me then I might give up my car. Currently the timetable for trips into town are one at 9:30ish and the other at 13:00ish. If I get the 9.30 one to town I have to be able to get the return one out at 12:45 or a taxi. If I get the 13:00 bus into town then I have to overnight or get a taxi. Obviously, that kind of public transprt is useless for anyone trying to commute to school/work/shop or socialise.

I'm not holding my breath to see what the GP will do for me wrt to public transport.

Cookiemunster

mdmix wrote: »

Well its a great thing we built an alternative 10 years ago. Now we need to start removing traffic lanes in the city to incentivise people to use it.

The tunnel is very successful, removing 25k journeys a day pre covid out of the city. However, not everyone wants or needs to bypass the city to the South (A road BTW that at 55k journeys a day is creaking). Most who still travel through the city won't ever be using the tunnel. They need a different way of avoiding the city, which the NTA have decided is the LNDR.

Until that is built, then the gridlock will only get worse in the city.

TPMP

AnonZen wrote: »

Out of curiosity, does anyone know the working population split between residents and commuters from outside the city/suburbs?

Appreciate I've worded that horrendously.

Of course not. Finding that type of information out would be far too sensible for the people making these decisions.

geotrig

mdmix wrote: »

The average cost of running a family car is 10k per year according to the AA. Considering the cars and fuel are imported, I think removing cars from the road would do wonders for the economy. Considering most families have 2 cars (sometimes more), imagine what Limerick would be like if every family suddenly had an extra 10k (or close to that minus the cost of a bike/bus pass) per year to spend

10k I quickly calculated my running cost in or around 3k being generous for a year doing nearly 30k km.

what would a yearly bus pass /train pass etc set a family back ,i wouldnt include the bikes as once they more a one off cost ?

phog

geotrig wrote: »

10k I quickly calculated my running cost in or around 3k being generous for a year doing nearly 30k km.

what would a yearly bus pass /train pass etc set a family back ,i wouldnt include the bikes as once they more a one off cost ?

I'd say the OP calculations are including car purchase/loans too but as most people will want to own a car then the only the fuel saving from work commutes should be included in the cost savings.

thesimpsons

Am amused at the continual obsession to curb usage of the bridges while the Dock Road, Tipp Road, Dublin Rd are similiarly conjested. Happily now I dont commute at rush hour any more but these areas are a nightmare virtually all day long from what I see and no real talk of doing anything to fix it. Park and ride at Tipp Road, out towards Annacotty, Mungret etc and regular busses to UL, Castletroy & Raheen factories, main schools and work areas of city centre, would surely be a massive relief to traffic.

Cookiemunster

thesimpsons wrote: »

Am amused at the continual obsession to curb usage of the bridges while the Dock Road, Tipp Road, Dublin Rd are similiarly conjested. Happily now I dont commute at rush hour any more but these areas are a nightmare virtually all day long from what I see and no real talk of doing anything to fix it. Park and ride at Tipp Road, out towards Annacotty, Mungret etc and regular busses to UL, Castletroy & Raheen factories, main schools and work areas of city centre, would surely be a massive relief to traffic.

4 park and rides on the main routes into the city are proposed as part of the LSMATS project.

bazz26

mdmix wrote: »

The average cost of running a family car is 10k per year according to the AA. Considering the cars and fuel are imported, I think removing cars from the road would do wonders for the economy. Considering most families have 2 cars (sometimes more), imagine what Limerick would be like if every family suddenly had an extra 10k (or close to that minus the cost of a bike/bus pass) per year to spend

You seem to be under the illusion that everyone driving in or around Limerick city is living in the city, they are not. Plenty of people commute from further away where a push bike of no use to them but you don't want the NDR built either. Also do you seriously think a family is going to have 10k in their pocket by giving up their car(s)? You make it sound like these families are spending 10k extra a year for fun rather than through necessity. Public transport is abysmal and unreliable as it is but who is going to pay towards improving it?

Also while cars and fuel are imported, the tax revenue from both are generated and spent here but you have forgotten to read that part of my post. How do you suggest the motoring revenue shortfall should be clawed back to help pay for all the other public services in the country? Maybe raise income tax, property tax, water rates or maybe some additional levies and stealth taxes?

phog

bazz26 wrote: »

You seem to be under the illusion that everyone driving in or around Limerick city is living in the city, they are not.

Some people can conveniently forget that people actually commute into the city for work/school/college, you know like people have been doing for decades if not centuries.

AnonZen

TPMP wrote: »

Of course not. Finding that type of information out would be far too sensible for the people making these decisions.

Found some stats on the CSO site*, using figures from 2016. Slightly more workers commuting in to the city/suburbs from outside (22,716) than are actually resident (21,908), but close enough to 50/50.

*I'm too new, can't post proper links.