Limerick improvement projects

J Mysterio

marno21 wrote: »

What mess by the Parkway?

The giant unfinished shopping mall.

J Mysterio

marno21 wrote: »

Those people would possibly commute by train if there was a ****e road like the one from Charleville/Tipp Town going to Limerick. With the N18/M18 going to Limerick they have no intention of getting a slow, infrequent, **** train.

I drive from Limerick to Cork regularly and its a hop and a skip. 1.5 hours at a canter.

There are problems with potholes and such but theyve been working on the roads for the last few months. Even Buttevant has been fixed up.

marno21

J Mysterio wrote: »

I drive from Limerick to Cork regularly and its a hop and a skip. 1.5 hours at a canter.

There are problems with potholes and such but theyve been working on the roads for the last few months. Even Buttevant has been fixed up.

I'm not talking about Cork-Limerick.

I'm saying that between Ennis commuters, Charleville commuters, and Tipp Town commuters, Ennis commuters have it the easiest because there's a motorway/dual carraigeway all the way to Limerick. They also have the tunnel for getting to Raheen/Castletroy.

Because they have a decent road the way down, there is no incentive for them to use a commuter train to Limerick.

Also 1.5 hours Cork-Limerick is a joke, that's about 65km/h. This isn't 1973. I can easily drive from Limerick to the Red Cow in that time, and that's 80/90km longer journey.

cgcsb

Bored_lad wrote: »

Why would they move to Limerick? If they want to come into the city they can come in by car or bus in less than half an hour in most cases. Not everyone wants to live in the city.

Ireland, like the rest of the world is urbanising. Young people don't want to be farm hands and people change careers 3 or 4 times in a lifetime so they need access to a variety of employment and educational opportunities.

cgcsb

Mr.H wrote: »

It would not be considered but its nothing to do with it being a popular choice............. A 20/15 minute trip on a train from the Airport the city center wouldnt be popular with business's and tourists??

If Limerick had a rail link with Shannon Airport then more business's would want to use Shannon and Limerick instead of Dublin as a matter of convenience. Pressure would be put on the government to invest more in Shannon and that would take away from both Dublin Airport and Dublin City. This would have a positive impact on this side of the country but would damage Dublin.

It is a political decision not to link Shannon and Limerick. They had the perfect chance when the opened the WRC and refused to take it even though there where numerous calls for it.

Just because I wear a tin foil hat doesnt mean they arent out to get me

A Limerick-Shannon rail link would not damage Dublin. Dublin airport has more than 11 times Shannon's passengers and is growing at more than double the rate of Shannon's growth, there is no danger of Shannon overtaking or even approaching Dublin's dominance.

I would prefer if Limerick had a comprehensive commuter rail network with P&R facilities complimented by BRT and better cycling infrastructure, A stand alone link to Shannon Airport would be a waste without good commuter rail and connectivity within the region.

Cookiemunster

cgcsb wrote: »

Ireland, like the rest of the world is urbanising. Young people don't want to be farm hands and people change careers 3 or 4 times in a lifetime so they need access to a variety of employment and educational opportunities.

That doesn't mean they have to live in a city. Especially if they live 30 mins or less away by motorway.

cgcsb

marno21 wrote: »

Because they have a decent road the way down, there is no incentive for them to use a commuter train to Limerick.

Commmuter rail + bus and cycling measures in Limerick City mean that less road space will be available for cars so bringing your car into the City will become a longer journey/more expensive than using commuter rail.

phog

cgcsb wrote: »

Ireland, like the rest of the world is urbanising. Young people don't want to be farm hands and people change careers 3 or 4 times in a lifetime so they need access to a variety of employment and educational opportunities.

You don't have to be a farm hand to live in Shannon, Sixmilebridge, Cratloe, Newmarket on Fergus, Clarecastle, Ennis, etc. Nor does living in any of those areas restrict them to working in the same job for life.

One could argue living in Ennis offers you better career opportunities as you have Ennis, Shannon, Limerick & Galway nearby.

cgcsb

Cookiemunster wrote: »

That doesn't mean they have to live in a city. Especially if they live 30 mins or less away by motorway.

No they don't have to but they will as the trends show. Remember commuting by car into cities will become more and more difficult as government policy gets tougher on excessive car use.

cgcsb

phog wrote: »

You don't have to be a farm hand to live in Shannon, Sixmilebridge, Cratloe, Newmarket on Fergus, Clarecastle, Ennis, etc. Nor does living in any of those areas restrict them to working in the same job for life.

One could argue living in Ennis offers you better career opportunities as you have Ennis, Shannon, Limerick & Galway nearby.

What universities are there in Ennis where I could study at night and work in the day in finance/IT/Engineering?
What variety of restaurants and/or night clubs are there for me to enjoy at the weekend?

These are the reasons why Ireland is urbanising.

phog

cgcsb wrote: »

Commmuter rail + bus and cycling measures in Limerick City mean that less road space will be available for cars so bringing your car into the City will become a longer journey/more expensive than using commuter rail.

What rail measures in Limerick reduce road space for car users? Aside from the Long Pavement and Park the rail network in Limerick doesn't affect traffic at all.

phog

cgcsb wrote: »

What universities are there in Ennis where I could study at night and work in the day in finance/IT/Engineering?
What variety of restaurants and/or night clubs are there for me to enjoy at the weekend?

These are the reasons why Ireland is urbanising.

I'd argue it's Dublin that's urbanising but yes, Limerick will gain too but not to the extent that people in Clare should move here, more those that want to move to a city might move here.

Cookiemunster

cgcsb wrote: »

No they don't have to but they will as the trends show. Remember commuting by car into cities will become more and more difficult as government policy gets tougher on excessive car use.

Most commuters work in Shannon or in industrial estates around the outskirts of Limerick. They are not going to be affected in any way by restriction on city center traffic.
And unless the green party get into power no Irish government is going to deal with so called excessive car use.

MrJones2013

I think all will agree that the car will always be the easiest form of transport for anyone travelling lets say around 10K+ from point A to point B. The thing is as a nation we have become too car dependent, every morning on my commute to work I pass numerous cars with one person, I am one of these people.

The road network has been heavily invested in and it was badly needed but this has aided to the dependency on cars. Now as a nation we need to start reducing our emissions and the powers that be are trying to come up with incentives to make us leave the car at home and use public transport, it's a step in the right direction but there needs to be measures to provide a modernised public transport infrastructure. We have an out of commission rail line which, with some investment, could be utilised and a genuine alternative to car dependency offered. We are supposed to be one of the 'Smarter Travel Demonstration Cities', why not be smarter about travel?!

phog

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Most commuters work in Shannon or in industrial estates around the outskirts of Limerick. They are not going to be affected in any way by restriction on city center traffic.
And unless the green party get into power no Irish government is going to deal with so called excessive car use.

They're dead in the water.

Bored_lad

cgcsb wrote: »

Ireland, like the rest of the world is urbanising. Young people don't want to be farm hands and people change careers 3 or 4 times in a lifetime so they need access to a variety of employment and educational opportunities.

So now just because we live in rural Ireland we should be farm hands. Most people in rural Clare as I said have very good access to Limerick should they want to work there, they also have Ennis and Shannon. Shannon is currently building new office buildings and changing away from its completely industrial past. They don't need to move to a city nor do all of them want to. Limerick is not and is never going to be some big attraction that everyone will drop everything to move to.

cgcsb

phog wrote: »

What rail measures in Limerick reduce road space for car users? Aside from the Long Pavement and Park the rail network in Limerick doesn't affect traffic at all.

It wouldn't. Reducing car volumes would be a parallel measure.

cgcsb

phog wrote: »

I'd argue it's Dublin that's urbanising but yes, Limerick will gain too but not to the extent that people in Clare should move here, more those that want to move to a city might move here.

I'm not saying anyone SHOULD move anywhere, but rather the WILL over time rural areas will de-populate.

phog

cgcsb wrote: »

It wouldn't. Reducing car volumes would be a parallel measure.

How will rail help reduce cars without huge investment? The road network has already been invested in.

cgcsb wrote: »

I'm not saying anyone SHOULD move anywhere, but rather the WILL over time rural areas will de-populate.

I never said you did.

However, this post certainly suggested it.

cgcsb

Cookiemunster wrote: »

And unless the green party get into power no Irish government is going to deal with so called excessive car use.

when we get fined in 2020 for excessive emissions governments will act.

cgcsb

Bored_lad wrote: »

So now just because we live in rural Ireland we should be farm hands. Most people in rural Clare as I said have very good access to Limerick should they want to work there, they also have Ennis and Shannon. Shannon is currently building new office buildings and changing away from its completely industrial past. They don't need to move to a city nor do all of them want to. Limerick is not and is never going to be some big attraction that everyone will drop everything to move to.

I'm not saying anyone SHOULD do anything. Urbanisation is the global and national trend, so most likely it just will happen.

Cookiemunster

cgcsb wrote: »

I'm not saying anyone SHOULD move anywhere, but rather the WILL over time rural areas will de-populate.

Ennis (25,000) and Shannon (9,600) are not rural areas. People from these areas won't suddenly decide to move to Limerick. And they definitely won't if they are actually working in Shannon!
The main point being made about a rail link to Shannon was that people already living in Limerick could commute to Shannon, not that people living in Clare would move to Limerick. But that got well and truely sidetracked.

cgcsb

phog wrote: »

How will rail help reduce cars without huge investment? The road network has already been invested in.

€200m to €300m is more than sufficient to give Limerick a reliable 2 line commuter rail system with park and rides, covering most of the population and trip generators. It's a modest investment really. Add in bus priority measures, BRT and more cycle lanes and reduce road space for cars, quickly you'll see a modal shift away from cars, it's nothing new, achieving modal shift is almost an exact science these days, there is plenty of research in the area.

Shannon Airport is a long way from the City with very little population in between so initially it might not be worth extending suburban rail that far but extensions to Shannon and Adare should be potential projects at a later stage.

zulutango

Bored_lad wrote: »

Limerick is not and is never going to be some big attraction that everyone will drop everything to move to.

Not saying people will drop everything to live in Limerick, but what makes you say it will never be a big attraction? If it's to be Ireland's second city in generations to come it would be a radically different place to what it is now.

cgcsb

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Ennis (25,000) and Shannon (9,600) are not rural areas. People from these areas won't suddenly decide to move to Limerick.

Yes but there are 117,000 people in County Clare, Ennis and Shannon are the only towns of significant scale. There remains over 80,000 people in the rest of the county who will be increasingly drawn to Ennis, Shannon and Limerick. Limerick just has the biggest pulling power in the area.

Cookiemunster

cgcsb wrote: »

Yes but there are 117,000 people in County Clare, Ennis and Shannon are the only towns of significant scale. There remains over 80,000 people in the rest of the county who will be increasingly drawn to Ennis, Shannon and Limerick. Limerick just has the biggest pulling power in the area.

Galway is only 15km further from Ennis than Limerick is and will be connected by motorway within 18 months. And North county Clare is closer to Galway than to Limerick. There's no guarantee that people would be drawn to Limerick. Also Ennis would also be a viable commuter destination for example for a couple who work in both Limerick and Galway.

rebs23

zulutango wrote: »

If it's to be Ireland's second city in generations to come it would be a radically different place to what it is now.

I think Limerick would be better off "cementing" its place as Ireland's 3rd city as Galway's population is growing at a more rapid pace than Limerick's.

MrJones2013

cgcsb wrote: »

€200m to €300m is more than sufficient to give Limerick a reliable 2 line commuter rail system with park and rides, covering most of the population and trip generators. It's a modest investment really. Add in bus priority measures, BRT and more cycle lanes and reduce road space for cars, quickly you'll see a modal shift away from cars, it's nothing new, achieving modal shift is almost an exact science these days, there is plenty of research in the area.

Shannon Airport is a long way from the City with very little population in between so initially it might not be worth extending suburban rail that far but extensions to Shannon and Adare should be potential projects at a later stage.

How many people have actually taken heed of the initiatives introduced by 'Limerick Smarter Travel' and consciously made the shift from car usage to an alternative means of transport? I would imagine the percentage is pretty low.

If they do want people to make this change (which should be a priority if fines are going to be issued for excessive emissions from 2020 as you posted) and are serious about it then significant intvestment on a reliable and modern alternative needs to be made. Why invest €21m on 3 seperate areas (Limerick €9m, Dungarvan €7.2m and Westport €5m according to www.smartertravel.ie)? Why not invest significantly in one area/region and vastly improve the public transport network there and entice people to use it with reduced rates or introductory rates or some incentive? This could then be used as a learning tool/template in rolling similar or better public transport in other areas/regions?

Bored_lad

rebs23 wrote: »

I think Limerick would be better off "cementing" its place as Ireland's 3rd city as Galway's population is growing at a more rapid pace than Limerick's.

It takes more than population to be Ireland's second city. Ya Galway is a big tourist city and also attracts a lot of students, but that doesn't make it Ireland's second city. Just look at industry there and multinationals there not really there. Take your big four accountancy firms they all have 50 staff or less really in Galway compare that to the size of their Limerick operations.

MrJones2013

phog wrote: »

How will rail help reduce cars without huge investment? The road network has already been invested in.

The road network has been invested in heavily and it was needed but in my opinion the public transport should have been invested in in parallel to this investment.

In general it is too easy to get around now using the car as the road network, by and large, is pretty good (we'll leave the M20 out of it ). We are too car dependent, myself included, now there is a scramble to have us leave the car behind and use alternative and slower and unreliable means of transport. This should have been taken in to account during the investment stage but that would meant some forward thinking at the time!