Limerick improvement projects

Mc Love

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Limerick got over €17m......

https://twitter.com/LimerickCycling/status/1359868432704032770?s=20

yop

Cookiemunster wrote: »

This Dublin taking from the rest attitude annoys me. A simple look at the PDF will show you that there are multiple multi million euro projects listed within the 4 Dublin LAs. There are then projects for 8 other LAs (not 26) listed. The breakdown in monies is around 50/50 between the 4 Dublin LAs and the other 8. Cork City alone is getting nearly €30m.

Quite simply Limerick doesn't have multimillion projects in the pipeline that need funding. Thinks like the O'Connell St works and Coonagh to Knockalisheen have already been fully funded.

So the blame lies at the feet of the LAs then ya?

I'm involved in 3 orgs here, one for the last 4 years we have been trying to get a 1km greenway but each phase is turned down due to lack of funding. It was submitted by the same group who got other greenways submitted and the LA had it turned down due to lack of funding for the last 2 years and obviously again.
Its lack of political power in this case.

yop

Mc Love wrote: »

https://twitter.com/LimerickCycling/status/1359868432704032770?s=20

Its a crazy setup, that in some cases if you don't spend it that you don't get that amount again and in that case they didn't even spend it!!! Are they planning there at all!!

I see there is conflict already on the plans for those projects in Dublin and Cork.

I'm derailing it a bit so I'd shush up now.

jpharvey

Mc Love wrote: »

https://twitter.com/LimerickCycling/status/1359868432704032770?s=20

Jesus, that's maddening.

Mc Love

yop wrote: »

So the blame lies at the feet of the LAs then ya?

I'm involved in 3 orgs here, one for the last 4 years we have been trying to get a 1km greenway but each phase is turned down due to lack of funding. It was submitted by the same group who got other greenways submitted and the LA had it turned down due to lack of funding for the last 2 years and obviously again.
Its lack of political power in this case.

Yep - Brian Leddin said as much. The government/NTA hand over the money and its up to the LA to spend it. If you dont spend it, you lose it. Quite astonishing but not surprising given how long it took for Limerick Council to make any covid measures until 2/3 months into lockdown

jpharvey

yop wrote: »

So the blame lies at the feet of the LAs then ya?

I'm involved in 3 orgs here, one for the last 4 years we have been trying to get a 1km greenway but each phase is turned down due to lack of funding. It was submitted by the same group who got other greenways submitted and the LA had it turned down due to lack of funding for the last 2 years and obviously again.
Its lack of political power in this case.

Yep. That's true of most voluntary orgs who try to improve things in whatever area. You have to have some sort of 'official' support to be in with a chance get any foot in the door.

johnnyryan89

Assuming if the Kings Island Perimeter - Pedestrian and Cycle Route is part funded then it might have something to do with improving the Island bank walkway when doing the flood defences.

Cookiemunster

Mc Love wrote: »

https://twitter.com/LimerickCycling/status/1359868432704032770?s=20

OK, but can you be we sure that they are being underfunded for this year? Would there have been more available? By the looks of it every one of the LAs has some level of 2020 stimulus carry over.

And is it really surprising that if wasn't possible to spend €10m awarded in July within 5 months of the allocation? It's not Brewtsers millions were talking about here. There's a slow red tape filled procurement process that has to be gone through before any project can start.

Mc Love wrote: »

Yep - Brian Leddin said as much. The government/NTA hand over the money and its up to the LA to spend it. If you dont spend it, you lose it. Quite astonishing but not surprising given how long it took for Limerick Council to make any covid measures until 2/3 months into lockdown

They haven't lost it, seeing as it's still there as part of this allocation.

stefanovich

yop wrote: »

Its a crazy setup, that in some cases if you don't spend it that you don't get that amount again and in that case they didn't even spend it!!! Are they planning there at all!!

I see there is conflict already on the plans for those projects in Dublin and Cork.

I'm derailing it a bit so I'd shush up now.

Maybe they were just trying to save the tax payer money and got everything done well under budget?:pac:

jpharvey

Cookiemunster wrote: »

OK, but can you be we sure that they are being underfunded for this year? Would there have been more available? By the looks of it every one of the LAs has some level of 2020 stimulus carry over.

And is it really surprising that if wasn't possible to spend €10m awarded in July within 5 months of the allocation? It's not Brewtsers millions were talking about here. There's a slow red tape filled procurement process that has to be gone through before any project can start.


They haven't lost it, seeing as it's still there as part of this allocation.

Whatever about cycling infrastructure, the Council did next to nothing to improve pedestrian access throughout the city during Covid. In some cases, like digging up the paths on Thomond Bridge and putting in poles to nowhere on the ones on Sarsfield Bridge, I'd argue they actually caused harm.

Cookiemunster

jpharvey wrote: »

Whatever about cycling infrastructure, the Council did next to nothing to improve pedestrian access throughout the city during Covid. In some cases, like digging up the paths on Thomond Bridge and putting in poles to nowhere on the ones on Sarsfield Bridge, I'd argue they actually caused harm.

Oh, Im well aware that the council do things arseways quite regularly, but in this case I'm not sure that it was possible to spend that much money in such a short space of time.

And looking back on it, it was August 21st that the 2020 funding was announced, so it's not at all surprising that it wasn't spent the final 4 months of the year.

Mc Love

Cookiemunster wrote: »

OK, but can you be we sure that they are being underfunded for this year? Would there have been more available? By the looks of it every one of the LAs has some level of 2020 stimulus carry over.

And is it really surprising that if wasn't possible to spend €10m awarded in July within 5 months of the allocation? It's not Brewtsers millions were talking about here. There's a slow red tape filled procurement process that has to be gone through before any project can start.


They haven't lost it, seeing as it's still there as part of this allocation.

Its only 10 million, 6+ million was carried over from last year, so saying we've been allocated 17 million for 2021 is incorrect

breezy1985

What did people expect the council to spend the money on. The few bit of cycle lane they did put in led to some very loud childish crying so if they were to spend Dublin levels of money the whole town would be cycle lanes which is fine with me but I doubt many others would be happy

Mc Love

breezy1985 wrote: »

What did people expect the council to spend the money on. The few bit of cycle lane they did put in led to some very loud childish crying so if they were to spend Dublin levels of money the whole town would be cycle lanes which is fine with me but I doubt many a small few others would be happy

Corrected that for you

Cookiemunster

Mc Love wrote: »

Its only 10 million, 6+ million was carried over from last year, so saying we've been allocated 17 million for 2021 is incorrect

That wasn't the argument I was putting across in that post. You said

Mc Love wrote: »

If you dont spend it, you lose it.

If it was carried over, then the money wasn't lost. Who's to say that there would actually have been a bigger allocation if they had managed to spend €10m in 4 months. You're pretty much making up stuff by stating as fact that Limerick has been underfunded by not spending the €10m.

Mc Love

Cookiemunster wrote: »

That wasn't the argument I was putting across in that post. You said


If it was carried over, then the money wasn't lost. Who's to say that there would actually have been a bigger allocation if they had managed to spend €10m in 4 months. You're pretty much making up stuff by stating as fact that Limerick has been underfunded by not spending the €10m.

Brian Leddin, said on twitter that if LA dont use the full amount granted to them this year (and based on previous conversations I've had in the past, you often see the council out doing roadworks etc, to use up the funds towards the end of the year) they will not be liable for new funds in the coming years.

Cookiemunster

Mc Love wrote: »

Brian Leddin, said on twitter that if LA dont use the full amount granted to them this year (and based on previous conversations I've had in the past, you often see the council out doing roadworks etc, to use up the funds towards the end of the year) they will not be liable for new funds in the coming years.

I'm aware of how that works with normal funding, but I doubt that it applies to a once off stimulus package.

They were never going to be able to spend €10m in 4 months though. There are no part 8s out for some of the projects and even if there were they've got to go through the convoluted tender process to appoint contractors to do the job.

For example, the Condell Road segregated cycle lane project that was announced last August is due to cost nearly €2m. I've not seen a part 8 for it yet though.

pajoguy

Mc Love wrote: »

Brian Leddin, said on twitter that if LA dont use the full amount granted to them this year (and based on previous conversations I've had in the past, you often see the council out doing roadworks etc, to use up the funds towards the end of the year) they will not be liable for new funds in the coming years.

What happens a lot in these instances is the Dept decide in October that there is a few quid left over and send it out to the councils to spend before the end of the year. And by end of year that means end of November in many cases. Asking the council to spend 10 million in 3 or 4 months is madness considering the procurement and assessment of contractors could take 6 to 8 weeks minimum. Add to the fact not every contractor has the abiltiy, resources or experience to carry out this work. Many contractors would have hed their books pretty much full to end of the 2020 last August also. It appears contracts were entered into by LCCC therefore that money is spoken for in those contracts.

tweek84

yop wrote: »

Its a crazy setup, that in some cases if you don't spend it that you don't get that amount again and in that case they didn't even spend it!!! Are they planning there at all!!

I see there is conflict already on the plans for those projects in Dublin and Cork.

I'm derailing it a bit so I'd shush up now.

Not having a go at you but if they did spend it everyone would be up in arms saying why have they spent so much money on x,y and z it is no needed.

One thing that they spent money on that no one was impressed with way the repairs to footpaths with putting down they tar type material (correct me if I am wrong) surely they knew they were not going to spend the budget allocated surely they could have changed the material used.

source

tweek84 wrote: »

Not having a go at you but if they did spend it everyone would be up in arms saying why have they spent so much money on x,y and z it is no needed.

One thing that they spent money on that no one was impressed with way the repairs to footpaths with putting down they tar type material (correct me if I am wrong) surely they knew they were not going to spend the budget allocated surely they could have changed the material used.

They used this material because if they had done a proper job and then months later torn the whole place up to start the remodeling of the street there would have been uproar. That work is due to start once the lock down is lifted I believe.

tweek84

source wrote: »

They used this material because if they had done a proper job and then months later torn the whole place up to start the remodeling of the street there would have been uproar. That work is due to start once the lock down is lifted I believe.

Well that solves that mystery ����
Apologies for the spelling and grammar i am using my phone

Mc Love

pajoguy wrote: »

What happens a lot in these instances is the Dept decide in October that there is a few quid left over and send it out to the councils to spend before the end of the year. And by end of year that means end of November in many cases. Asking the council to spend 10 million in 3 or 4 months is madness considering the procurement and assessment of contractors could take 6 to 8 weeks minimum. Add to the fact not every contractor has the abiltiy, resources or experience to carry out this work. Many contractors would have hed their books pretty much full to end of the 2020 last August also. It appears contracts were entered into by LCCC therefore that money is spoken for in those contracts.

They've had the 10 million for more than 3 or 4 months, so had plenty of time to spend but as I've said before they were one of the slowest for rolling out covid measures

Cookiemunster

Mc Love wrote: »

They've had the 10 million for more than 3 or 4 months, so had plenty of time to spend but as I've said before they were one of the slowest for rolling out covid measures

3 or 4 months is not long enought to spend €10m as has been explained to you twice. You obviously don't want to listen as it doesn't suit your agenda against the council.

As pajoguy said the money is ring fenced for projects that will begin in the near future. Appointing contractors is not a quick process.

Mc Love

Cookiemunster wrote: »

3 or 4 months is not long enought to spend €10m as has been explained to you twice. You obviously don't want to listen as it doesn't suit your agenda against the council.

As pajoguy said the money is ring fenced for projects that will begin in the near future. Appointing contractors is not a quick process.

Clearly you have an agenda too, they had the money for the year, not 3 or 4 months! They only spent 30% of it and were late to even get any measures done, compared to other towns and villages. But sure, keep on defending them

Cookiemunster

Mc Love wrote: »

Clearly you have an agenda too, they had the money for the year, not 3 or 4 months! They only spent 30% of it and were late to even get any measures done, compared to other towns and villages. But sure, keep on defending them

No they did not have it for the year. Get your facts right.

From the press release on August 21st.

Limerick City and County Council has received a grant approval of €10m from the National Transport Authority (NTA) for stimulus funding for the metropolitan area of Limerick. The funding was as a result of an application under the Active Travel Measures Allocation announced in the Jobs Stimulus Plan (23rd July) by the Government.

https://www.limerick.ie/council/newsroom/news/eu10m-grant-funding-awarded-limerick-city-and-county-council-national

So the stimulus plan was announced on July 23rd. They then applied for funding and announced it on August 21st. It even states that they were still waiting on official confirmation of the grant. Not even close to a year.

Amazing how you went from complaining that they couldn't spend it in 3 - 4 months to claiming they had it all year when you were shown to be wrong.

I have no agenda other than stating the facts when incorrect information is posted. That is not in any way defending the council who I've regularly critisized on here.

Mc Love

I was comparing the fact that they took so long to rollout the mobility plan during the first lockdown, that it is no surprise that they couldnt get their finger out and spend that 10 million in 3-4 months.

I bet anything that they could have if they had the gumption to.

That 6+ million was carried over and that is included in the 17 million figure mentioned, so we've really only got another 10 million this year. compared to all the other cities

Cookiemunster

Mc Love wrote: »

I was comparing the fact that they took so long to rollout the mobility plan during the first lockdown, that it is no surprise that they couldnt get their finger out and spend that 10 million in 3-4 months.

I bet anything that they could have if they had the gumption to.

That 6+ million was carried over and that is included in the 17 million figure mentioned, so we've really only got another 10 million this year. compared to all the other cities

Did it ever occur to you that the €10m was all Limerick was getting this year regardless? That they haven't actually been docked because there's still €6.9m left from an allocation received in late August?
You've already been told that the money from August has been earmarked for projects that are out to tender, therefore it's as good a spent. And that the tendering process is slow(which is no fault of the councils).

Your just trying to find nonexistent problems to have a crack off the council. You're not even hiding that fact.

BTW all the other LAs carried over money too. It's in the document I linked to yesterday. So all their allocations include carried over monies too. Kildare, Meath, Wicklow, Galway and Waterford all got similar or less than Limerick when the carry over is taken off.

what_traffic

Cookiemunster wrote: »

BTW all the other LAs carried over money too. It's in the document I linked to yesterday. So all their allocations include carried over monies too. Kildare, Meath, Wicklow, Galway and Waterford all got similar or less than Limerick when the carry over is taken off.

What is shows is that they ALL are the same, i.e not setup to manage and spend this money on suitable projects. Massive ramp up of money from 2019/2020 and 2021 notwithstanding
Limerick City should be in a far better position though than other Regional City's - they did win the Smarter Transport Large Urban Area allocation over a decade ago.

Cookiemunster

mart 23 wrote: »

Aldi have received approval for their store on Roches Street from the Council. I will be surprised if it does not go to ABP.

You should have put money on it. Appealed to ABP the owner of the Anne St. car park.

Cookiemunster

https://twitter.com/LimerickCouncil/status/1366383277981003781?s=19

Makes sense to redesignate this as essential. They should be able to get 8 weeks work done before the shops reopen in May. And with them not having to worry about keeping access to those shops open, it should speed them up a bit.