Limerick improvement projects

zulutango

Cookiemunster wrote: »

And unless the green party get into power no Irish government is going to deal with so called excessive car use.

Well, that's not really true. We have binding agreements which will force us to reduce emmissions from transport. Also, if we are committed to sensible planning then we should be doing what we can to organise our society such that we are dependent on the least efficient modes of transport, i.e. cars.

cgcsb

MrJones2013 wrote: »

How many people have actually taken heed of the initiatives introduced by 'Limerick Smarter Travel' and consciously made the shift from car usage to an alternative means of transport? I would imagine the percentage is pretty low.

I'd imagine it is quite low because with no commuter rail and few bus priority measures, the journey time, frequency and connectivity is not an improvement on the pre existing service. Getting people onto public transport is going to mean spending money on public transport infrastructure to make it more attractive. We haven't quite got that down in Ireland yet.

MrJones2013 wrote: »

If they do want people to make this change (which should be a priority if fines are going to be issued for excessive emissions from 2020 as you posted) and are serious about it then significant intvestment on a reliable and modern alternative needs to be made. Why invest €21m on 3 seperate areas (Limerick €9m, Dungarvan €7.2m and Westport €5m according to www.smartertravel.ie)? Why not invest significantly in one area/region and vastly improve the public transport network there and entice people to use it with reduced rates or introductory rates or some incentive? This could then be used as a learning tool/template in rolling similar or better public transport in other areas/regions?

I think it's a case of rural Ireland receiving favourable spending as per DeValera ruralism. Smart travel in towns like westport-dungarvan basically equals better cycling/p facilities, easily done and dusted. The Cities need mass transit which costs money.

MrJones2013

cgcsb wrote: »

I'd imagine it is quite low because with no commuter rail and few bus priority measures, the journey time, frequency and connectivity is not an improvement on the pre existing service. Getting people onto public transport is going to mean spending money on public transport infrastructure to make it more attractive. We haven't quite got that down in Ireland yet.

If the full €21m was invested in one area with a decent sized population it may have made a difference. Correct me if I'm wrong but I can only see small signs of the investment of the €9m here in Limerick, cycle lanes, 'real time' info at stops and the likes but no significant improvement in the public transport service itself......

Cookiemunster

zulutango wrote: »

Well, that's not really true. We have binding agreements which will force us to reduce emmissions from transport. Also, if we are committed to sensible planning then we should be doing what we can to organise our society such that we apre dependent on the least efficient modes of transport, i.e. cars.

Cars are going nowhere. Engines are getting smaller, more efficient and cleaner. Eventually petrol/diesel will be replaced by EVs.

cgcsb

MrJones2013 wrote: »

If the full €21m was invested in one area with a decent sized population it may have made a difference. Correct me if I'm wrong but I can only see small signs of the investment of the €9m here in Limerick, cycle lanes, 'real time' info at stops and the likes but no significant improvement in the public transport service itself......

€21m is a pitiful sum, compared to what's needed. Our capital transport budget should be 90%+ focussed on on the Cities, Wexford can wait for more tumble weed collecting motorways.

MrJones2013

cgcsb wrote: »

€21m is a pitiful sum, compared to what's needed. Our capital transport budget should be 90%+ focussed on on the Cities, Wexford can wait for more tumble weed collecting motorways.

Don't get me wrong I agree with you, alot more than €21m is needed but more could have been done with that being focused in one area rather than dividing it between 3 areas.

cgcsb

I doubt you can really do much more with €21 other than bike lanes, real time, maybe some more bike initiatives. It's the same all over the country though, the cycling and minor tinkering with buses is great but if you want the big modal shift you need mass transit, cycling schemes can only ever be complimentary.

MrJones2013

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Cars are going nowhere. Engines are getting smaller, more efficient and cleaner. Eventually petrol/diesel will be replaced by EVs.

Cars are going nowhere correct but there are plenty of cities are trying to go down the road of being car free, with Limerick this could be done as it is a small city but given it's geographical location (i.e. it's in Ireland) it won't be, well not anytime soon anyway.

zulutango

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Cars are going nowhere. Engines are getting smaller, more efficient and cleaner. Eventually petrol/diesel will be replaced by EVs.

EVs aren't exactly the cleanest form of transport either. In any case, it's the height of stupidity to organise a society such that it is car dependent.

bazz26

Not everyone with a car is solely dependent on it. I have a car mostly because I like to drive and like how my car drives, even when I lived in the city I always had a car. I also like the independence it gives me to be able to get up and just go somewhere when I feel like it. I also like how I don't have to wait around for it to arrive or share it with people I don't know.

D Trent

bazz26 wrote: »

Not everyone with a car is solely dependent on it. I have a car mostly because I like to drive and like how my car drives, even when I lived in the city I always had a car. I also like the independence it gives me to be able to get up and just go somewhere when I feel like it. I also like how I don't have to wait around for it to arrive or share it with people I don't know.

Well aren't ya mighty

bazz26

D Trent wrote: »

Well aren't ya mighty

Yes I am and thanks for saying so.

phog

zulutango wrote: »

Well, that's not really true. We have binding agreements which will force us to reduce emmissions from transport. Also, if we are committed to sensible planning then we should be doing what we can to organise our society such that we are dependent on the least efficient modes of transport, i.e. cars.

How are you measuring efficient?

zulutango

phog wrote: »

How are you measuring efficient?

Joules per person per km.

Figerty

cgcsb wrote: »

What universities are there in Ennis where I could study at night and work in the day in finance/IT/Engineering?
What variety of restaurants and/or night clubs are there for me to enjoy at the weekend?

These are the reasons why Ireland is urbanising.

There are 2 Universitys, 2 IOT's and one Primary teachers training college within 50 minutes of Ennis. Choice is not a problem....
There are more than enough restaurants in Ennis for anyone...go take a walk around and see..
Limerick isn't that great. Galway is great, the centre of Limerick struggles for soul or character. It does need help.

phog

zulutango wrote: »

Joules per person per km.

Does that ignore time spent waiting on bus/train, gettng to/from train/bus use of more than one piece of public transport or getting two connections and suitability?

zulutango

phog wrote:

Does that ignore time spent waiting on bus/train, gettng to/from train/bus use of more than one piece of public transport or getting two connections and suitability?

Nope. Not in a sensibly planned society anyway.

phog

zulutango wrote: »

Nope. Not in a sensibly planned society anyway.

So the efficiency statement is a tad incorrect for what we're currently talking about.

If high density city living is the right way to live then why are you just dvocating moving Clare people to Limerick rather than moving the entire population to Dublin, it would still only be a small city by international standards.

zulutango

phog wrote:

If high density city living is the right way to live then why are you just dvocating moving Clare people to Limerick rather than moving the entire population to Dublin, it would still only be a small city by international standards.

It doesn't make sense to have one major urban centre on one side of the country. That's what we currently have and we're stagnating as a result. It makes far more sense to have a few large urban centres around the country, but not more than a few.

phog

zulutango wrote: »

It doesn't make sense to have one major urban centre on one side of the country. That's what we currently have and we're stagnating as a result. It makes far more sense to have a few large urban centres around the country, but not more than a few.

We wouldn't necessarily be stagnating with one city. People think we're stagnating because Limerick suffered more than Dubkin, Cork & Galway but as a nation if urbanisation is going to be the solution then why not just have one city. We'd have everything nearby and the farm hands can manage the rest of the country on their John Deeres

J Mysterio

Figerty wrote: »

There are 2 Universitys, 2 IOT's and one Primary teachers training college within 50 minutes of Ennis. Choice is not a problem....
There are more than enough restaurants in Ennis for anyone...go take a walk around and see..
Limerick isn't that great. Galway is great, the centre of Limerick struggles for soul or character. It does need help.

Nonsense, Limerick is a beautiful, planned Georgian city. Galway has one street.

vkid

J Mysterio wrote:

Nonsense, Limerick is a beautiful, planned Georgian city. Galway has one street.

True but its in a shockingly neglected state. The city centre needs investment. It.could be gorgeous, but the buildings are really really badly maintained, and surrounded by some god awful modern buildings that look just as bad..the decent buildings badly need money spent on them...and the city center needs to be kept clean. It just looks dirty and run down at the moment

Vanquished

I've always been baffled and amused by the almost constant fawning over Galway. I've always been distinctly underwhelmed by the place. Limerick city centre is far larger than Galway's and is architecturally far more significant. Just take a look at the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage (NIAH) and you'll find that Galway city wasn't even considered worthy of an individual survey entry unlike Dublin, Cork or Limerick cities.

Despite having been bestowed with such a wonderful built heritage. Limericks Georgian architecture has been continually compromised and neglected over the last 60 years or so without any significant intervention from the city authorities. To this day the council remains seemingly incapable of understanding how to improve the city centre. No plans to upgrade the likes of Pery Square, Barrington/Hartstonge/Mallow/Glentworth Streets etc. We can't even get rid of those outrageously ugly ESB poles!

So much potential to capitalise on yet no vision or strategy as to how to fulfill it!

Silentcorner

Vanquished wrote: »

I've always been baffled and amused by the almost constant fawning over Galway. I've always been distinctly underwhelmed by the place. Limerick city centre is far larger than Galway's and is architecturally far more significant. Just take a look at the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage (NIAH) and you'll find that Galway city wasn't even considered worthy of an individual survey entry unlike Dublin, Cork or Limerick cities.

Despite having been bestowed with such a wonderful built heritage. Limericks Georgian architecture has been continually compromised and neglected over the last 60 years or so without any significant intervention from the city authorities. To this day the council remains seemingly incapable of understanding how to improve the city centre. No plans to upgrade the likes of Pery Square, Barrington/Hartstonge/Mallow/Glentworth Streets etc. We can't even get rid of those outrageously ugly ESB poles!

So much potential to capitalise on yet no vision or strategy as to how to fulfill it!

As I see it there are two main reasons for the fawning.

One, it is ridiculously hyped, and Irish people are deadly for buying into hype of all kinds....we are like children really!!

Two, the people who love/fawn over Galway tend to be either pretentious types or rural Irish types or Irish people in their 20s, it is in this community of Irish where you will see the most heavy drinking or displays of "wealth"....and Ireland is full of both...these kinds typically do not like Limerick at all....of course there are proper genuine Galway people who love their city and who could blame them who are neither rural or pretentious, but they are subjected to the consequences of all this popularity thrust upon them every weekend which must get very annoying after a while...the place is in constant party mode...

Our biggest issue here in Limerick is the same as Cork/Galways/Waterford/Dublin biggest issue, how slowly our local authority is to addressing issues, like a clear vision for the future (the Limerick 2030 plan is merely an impressive slide show), the danger for the future of Limerick is that our local authority are the biggest owners of development land in the city centre....

zulutango

Vanquished wrote: »

To this day the council remains seemingly incapable of understanding how to improve the city centre. No plans to upgrade the likes of Pery Square, Barrington/Hartstonge/Mallow/Glentworth Streets etc. We can't even get rid of those outrageously ugly ESB poles!

So much potential to capitalise on yet no vision or strategy as to how to fulfill it!

Limerick could be a fantastic and beautiful city, the most attractive in Ireland in my opinion. The Council don't see that though. They're really what stands in the way of Limerick realising its potential and not doing so. Limerick is a city of ambition run by two-bit administrators, and until we have good people in there we'll continue to get projects like the infamous footbridge foisted on us as a solution to the city's problems.

Figerty

J Mysterio wrote: »

Nonsense, Limerick is a beautiful, planned Georgian city. Galway has one street.

Strawman response. You made a point about 3rd level access and restaurants, and replied to my comment by diverting to architecture.

I lived in a Limerick Georgian house for three years. Lovely design proportions and space.
It's a nice planned City centre but with no real energy unlike Galway. Galway centre feels alive. Social Life I was talking about in Galway. Ennis have a better energy that Limerick, probably the small streets that give atmosphere.

Silentcorner

Figerty wrote: »

There are 2 Universitys, 2 IOT's and one Primary teachers training college within 50 minutes of Ennis. Choice is not a problem....
There are more than enough restaurants in Ennis for anyone...go take a walk around and see..
Limerick isn't that great. Galway is great, the centre of Limerick struggles for soul or character. It does need help.

You must of missed the 900 year old cathedral built by a descendant of Brian Boru in his honour, or the 800 years old castle built by the Normans beside it, or the museums/art galleries all of which display aspects of Limericks charachter or the 250 year old Georgian District....or the River Shannon...

What Limerick City Centre lacks is vibrancy, which is footfall...not to be confused with character or soul, both of which Limerick is rammed full of...but I'd take our "lack of vibrancy" over Galways "drunken/cultured vibe" any day of the week...

You are of course entitled to your opinion, in fact I have met people who seem to have a downright hatred of Limerick City....they typically tick a number of the following boxes

They think Trad music is the best form of music in the world
They think GAA is the best sport in the world
They think drinking all day is "having the craic"
If they were to live in Cork/Dublin they would strongly prefer the Southside
They believe it is nice to eat in restuarantes that reflect their perceived status.
They think Galway is Irelands Cultured city
They think a great day out is any day that gives them an excuse to wear expensive clothes
They don't have an opinion on Political corruption
The are not mad about Dublin or Waterford

The more of the above boxes you tick, the stronger the dislike of Limerick, I find anyway...

Johnny_BravoIII

I just checked the galway forum. Yet to see a signification discussion on Limerick there.

Silentcorner wrote: »

As I see it there are two main reasons for the fawning.

One, it is ridiculously hyped, and Irish people are deadly for buying into hype of all kinds

Two, the people who love/fawn over Galway tend to be either pretentious types or rural Irish types or Irish people in their 20s, it is in this community of Irish where you will see the most heavy drinking or displays of "wealth"....and Ireland is full of both.....
rural or pretentious...

I'd take our "lack of vibrancy" over Galways "drunken/cultured vibe" any day of the week...

They think Trad music is the best form of music in the world
They think GAA is the best sport in the world
They think drinking all day is "having the craic"
If they were to live in Cork/Dublin they would strongly prefer the Southside
They believe it is nice to eat in restuarantes that reflect their perceived status.
They think Galway is Irelands Cultured city
They think a great day out is any day that gives them an excuse to wear expensive clothes
They don't have an opinion on Political corruption
The are not mad about Dublin or Waterford
,

I've lived in both places happily.
So galways success is clearly a hype job by the same Dublin meeja who have conspired to run limerick down?
In reality it's just a party house. The only people who can't see this are clearly thick uneducated GAA country peasants who put on their Sunday best to go puke on Quay streey on weekends, and pretentious silly hipsters chasing status?

Thats it? That's Galway?

zulutango

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

Thats it? That's Galway?

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up :pac:

Johnny_BravoIII

zulutango wrote: »

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up :pac:

You can't superimpose "success" on a city. It's built on deep roots. To understand a place is to understand its roots.