Limerick improvement projects

phog

Is it now time to change it's name to Limerick Castle? We have Blarney Castle in Blaney, Kilkenny Castle in Kilkenny and Dublin Castle in Dublin but King John's Castle could be anywhere. I think Limerick Castle would be much easier market.

Cookiemunster

phog wrote: »

Is it now time to change it's name to Limerick Castle? We have Blarney Castle in Blaney, Kilkenny Castle in Kilkenny and Dublin Castle in Dublin but King John's Castle could be anywhere. I think Limerick Castle would be much easier market.

No. You don't change the name of a historical site for better marketing. You just advertise it as King Johns Castle Limerick.

johnnyryan89

Cookiemunster wrote: »

No. You don't change the name of a historical site for better marketing. You just advertise it as King Johns Castle Limerick.

https://twitter.com/limerickslife/status/1410153901857378306

From this it was known as Limerick Castle for a lot longer than King John's Castle, which only became commonly used in the late 19th century.

sioda

The limerick museum won't fit into King Johns at all not if you want to keep the interpretation centre in the old castle lane.

Renaming the castle at this stage would be ridiculous bad it's in all of the tourist books as King Johns.

The best thing I think now is to be able to market the city under one banner rather than in pieces.

But the fact is I don't believe this council are capable of doing a good job here at all.

Clare county council must be rubbing their hands together with glee taking over Bunratty which has gone downhill at a awful pace the last few years but again this happens when your company has no curator and the cliffs which is a cash cow while smaller sites like Cragganowen will be forgotten I fear.

breezy1985

It doesn't matter what the castle is called its practically the only big tourist site in the city. The key is getting people to the city itself which isn't easy because an inland industrial city really isn't the diddly eye stuff tourists want. Get people to the city and I'm sure the castle will be fine

Cookiemunster

breezy1985 wrote: »

It doesn't matter what the castle is called its practically the only big tourist site in the city. The key is getting people to the city itself which isn't easy because an inland industrial city really isn't the diddly eye stuff tourists want. Get people to the city and I'm sure the castle will be fine

Failte Ireland are to begin marketing Limerick as a gateway city to the Wild Atlantic Way, so that should help get the city out there. https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2021/0621/1229385-limerick-wild-atlantic-way/

phog

breezy1985 wrote: »

It doesn't matter what the castle is called its practically the only big tourist site in the city. The key is getting people to the city itself which isn't easy because an inland industrial city really isn't the diddly eye stuff tourists want. Get people to the city and I'm sure the castle will be fine

Call it Limerick Castle and people might say lets head to Limerick there's a castle there

Clareman

sioda wrote: »

The limerick museum won't fit into King Johns at all not if you want to keep the interpretation centre in the old castle lane.

Renaming the castle at this stage would be ridiculous bad it's in all of the tourist books as King Johns.

The best thing I think now is to be able to market the city under one banner rather than in pieces.

But the fact is I don't believe this council are capable of doing a good job here at all.

Clare county council must be rubbing their hands together with glee taking over Bunratty which has gone downhill at a awful pace the last few years but again this happens when your company has no curator and the cliffs which is a cash cow while smaller sites like Cragganowen will be forgotten I fear.

Ah the Cliff's have been under the remit of Clare County Council for some time now, I've had family membership for Bunratty for some time now and I can't say it's "gone downhill at an awful pace", we're awful lucky to have such a facility on our doorste, Cragganowen is the poorer relation but it is what it is. Anyway, enough about Clare.

breezy1985

phog wrote: »

Call it Limerick Castle and people might say lets head to Limerick there's a castle there

No they won't though. No one is coming here for that castle when you can get to much better ones for the price of a cheap Ryanair flight.Its a really nice thing to do when you are here but it's not why you come.

BTW Limerick is having a Bastille Day celebration 9th to 12th July to commemorate the opening of the Wild Geese museum.
https://www.limerick.ie/discover/whats-on/festivals/limerick-bastille-day-wild-geese-festival-2021

sioda

Clareman wrote: »

Ah the Cliff's have been under the remit of Clare County Council for some time now, I've had family membership for Bunratty for some time now and I can't say it's "gone downhill at an awful pace", we're awful lucky to have such a facility on our doorste, Cragganowen is the poorer relation but it is what it is. Anyway, enough about Clare.

Cliffs as a site yes but the retail is under the remit of Shannon Heritage. The upkeep of the castle from a conservation point of view has been horrific if you know what to look for from display pieces to damp to improper care. I'm not lobbing blame at the staff but there has been no curatorial care in Bunratty for years just upkeep and even that has been stretched

Back to Limerick though as you said, it's a well know fact that Failte Ireland in the old bord Failte days and Shannon Region under the guise of Shannon Development or Heritage did not get on well to the point that anything managed by either of the above agencies did not feature in any advertising internal or international. This without a doubt effected Limerick as a tourist destination and never imo really recovered. Fingers crossed the council cop on and hand over the marketing side to someone who knows what they are doing.

breezy1985

sioda wrote: »

Cliffs as a site yes but the retail is under the remit of Shannon Heritage. The upkeep of the castle from a conservation point of view has been horrific if you know what to look for from display pieces to damp to improper care. I'm not lobbing blame at the staff but there has been no curatorial care in Bunratty for years just upkeep and even that has been stretched

Back to Limerick though as you said, it's a well know fact that Failte Ireland in the old bord Failte days and Shannon Region under the guise of Shannon Development or Heritage did not get on well to the point that anything managed by either of the above agencies did not feature in any advertising internal or international. This without a doubt effected Limerick as a tourist destination and never imo really recovered. Fingers crossed the council cop on and hand over the marketing side to someone who knows what they are doing.

If Limerick wants to be a tourist destination it will take a lot more than marketing. First it needs things to market and the semi pedestrianisation of places like Catherine St. And O'Connell St. is the way to go. People want quaint little streets full of bars and cafes not busy roads and tiny paths.
Galway, Cork and Dublin have really nice streets in this regard and we are way behind.

There's a reason why people go to Bruges instead of Charleroi or Bath over Coventry

Brian Lighthouse

Cookiemunster wrote: »

No. You don't change the name of a historical site for better marketing. You just advertise it as King Johns Castle Limerick.

I agree with the Cookie here.
King John's memory still lives on ca 1000 years later. He was crowned in 1199 after his brother Richard the Lionheart died from battle wounds. His dastardly deeds were such that no British monarch has been called John since. Under fear of being taken out to be hung, drawn and quartered he sealed the Magna Carta; a document considered to be the first step towards constitutional democracy anywhere in the world and a model for many other such documents.

Look how Nottingham/Sherwood Forest areas trade on Robin Hood, his adversary, a mere Prince John, We have the full King associated with Limerick, why not exploit that?


We're already exploiting it by calling it a castle, the castle part of it is long gone, we have a curtain wall here in Limerick, I think we should continue to exploit the King John aspect.



On another note, throw in a dark aspect - a few tales of horror, woe, superstition and witchcraft etc etc to satisfy the emerging Dark Tourism market and we could be world leaders in Dark Tourism in 20 years time.


Also - in my opinion and as an example - if Limerick and its exploitation of King John's legacy were marketed in the Japanese market and we only secured 0.5% of the number that visit Heidleberg as an example we would be 'laughing' as the fella says.


Now, there's my t'uppence.

sleepyman

breezy1985 wrote: »

If Limerick wants to be a tourist destination it will take a lot more than marketing. First it needs things to market and the semi pedestrianisation of places like Catherine St. And O'Connell St. is the way to go. People want quaint little streets full of bars and cafes not busy roads and tiny paths.
Galway, Cork and Dublin have really nice streets in this regard and we are way behind.

There's a reason why people go to Bruges instead of Charleroi or Toledo or Bath over Coventry

That's a fair call.I'm glad to see the council are looking at more controls over Shopfronts etc.Too many of them are pure tacky.
Keep improving and restoring old buildings etc-I know it costs money but all this will improve the city.
Try and be more imaginative with derelict spaces-murals,seating etc.
I look at Dublin and it's so unimaginative with the newer buildings built.
We should maybe take inspiration from the likes of Oslo and Stockholm

somespud

If Limerick wants a tourist attraction we should think about the restoration of the old walls of Limerick to exactly like they were similar to the city of Derry, it might take a 100 years to complete but the LCCC should start the proceess of reclaiming/buying the land the walls stood on. Restoration of parts have been done and the process of rebuilding should continue as the land becomes available.

Louche Lad

breezy1985 wrote: »

If Limerick wants to be a tourist destination it will take a lot more than marketing. First it needs things to market and the semi pedestrianisation of places like Catherine St. And O'Connell St. is the way to go. People want quaint little streets full of bars and cafes not busy roads and tiny paths.
Galway, Cork and Dublin have really nice streets in this regard and we are way behind.

There's a reason why people go to Bruges instead of Charleroi or Bath over Coventry

Very much this. In the Before-Times I'd often sneak off to Galway or Cork for just this experience.

mdmix

somespud wrote: »

If Limerick wants a tourist attraction we should think about the restoration of the old walls of Limerick to exactly like they were similar to the city of Derry, it might take a 100 years to complete but the LCCC should start the proceess of reclaiming/buying the land the walls stood on. Restoration of parts have been done and the process of rebuilding should continue as the land becomes available.

There are many obvious reasons why that won’t happen. The Derry walls stand because the were well built by experienced craftsmen sent from London and adequately funded. The Limerick walls were not so well designed, apparently when the French arrived to defend the city in 1690 there was fierce debate about wether it was possible to defend a city with such poor walls.

But I do think something should be done. I think a simpler option would be to plot the area the walls used to stand. This could be done by physically marking the ground. The Berlin Wall trail uses small granit (I’m guessing the material, I have no idea) slabs about 1 and a half feet wide with copper marking in the middle.

We could simply add cobble stones along the are where the wall used to stand. If it intersects a property, you simply bring it right up to the property, and continue on the other side. I’m guessing once you take away the properties, you might only come to 100-200 meters of cobbling, 1 meter wide (2m in small sections). Surely cheap enough to and easy enough but it would have a big impact on bringing the city history to life. Just add a few plaques, maybe a mural or 2 on modern buildings on the way.

source

Mdmix, that is one of the simplest and best ideas I've heard for the city, guaranteed the council would screw it up.

phog

mdmix wrote: »

But I do think something should be done. I think a simpler option would be to plot the area the walls used to stand. This could be done by physically marking the ground. The Berlin Wall trail uses small granit (I’m guessing the material, I have no idea) slabs about 1 and a half feet wide with copper marking in the middle.

This is already done in some locations e.g. the cobble stones near the Market,the metal strip by the side of the Gaelcholáiste near Baalsbridge mark the route of Wall.

Also on Sheep St, if you lean over the railing on your left as you walk from Athlunkard St you'll see some of the old wall exposed under the new(ish) building.

The problem is the sections that are available to see or those markers are useless without some sort of marketing and signage to explain the whole thing.

sleepyman

First impressions of approaches to the city could be improved too.Is the Railway Hotel still lying idle since it closed?
I know it's not the Council's property but it's about optics.
Coming out of the train station and seeing abandoned buildings isn't ideal.

somespud

https://youtu.be/EPKjvkrmyfk

Jofspring

sleepyman wrote: »

First impressions of approaches to the city could be improved too.Is the Railway Hotel still lying idle since it closed?
I know it's not the Council's property but it's about optics.
Coming out of the train station and seeing abandoned buildings isn't ideal.

It's still lying idle alright. Back up for sale too. It's disgraceful looking at this stage.

mdmix

phog wrote: »

This is already done in some locations e.g. the cobble stones near the Market,the metal strip by the side of the Gaelcholáiste near Baalsbridge mark the route of Wall.

Also on Sheep St, if you lean over the railing on your left as you walk from Athlunkard St you'll see some of the old wall exposed under the new(ish) building.

The problem is the sections that are available to see or those markers are useless without some sort of marketing and signage to explain the whole thing.

Ya, I didn’t realise this, but if it is to be successful, every part of the wall that is not already built on top of needs to be cobbled - maybe even rebuild one of the gates as a long term project. I don’t think it would do much good marketing what’s already there because it’s so sparse. I often see tourist hanging about thomond bridge not really sure of what to do with themselves after they have seen the treaty stone and the castle. If there was a cobbled patch going across the road surface with a plaque advising the wall walk and the route this might be the simplest way to start. Along the way there could be signs, plaques and maybe models advising what stood where ie. turret, gate, cannon etc.

OfTheMarsWongs

There are already plaques on some parts of the city wall.

This page on the council site may be of interest to some on this thread:

http://www.limerickcity.ie/Library/LocalStudies/LocalStudiesFiles/W/WallsofLimerick/

Also, remains of a city gate were recently rediscovered under the open area across from St. Mary's Church. Link to post about it on FB:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1298668980531533&id=100011653300491

breezy1985

Jofspring wrote: »

It's still lying idle alright. Back up for sale too. It's disgraceful looking at this stage.

Going by my experience the mark of every big European city is to have an area around the main train station that is an absolute $h1*hole

Crystalsun

somespud wrote: »

https://youtu.be/EPKjvkrmyfk

That's a fantastic little film. Fair play to Sharon Slater , she's a great ambassador for Limerick. ¨
Such a pity the Limerick Council neglected the area there ever since the city wall footpath and park opened in 1997. And that obscene and violent looking palisade fence that was erected 10 years ago ( with planning permission given by Council BTW) is a screaming risk for young adventurous kids in the area.

Those Council officials who make decisions couldnt possibly be from limerick as it seems that they couldn't give a toss about promoting the glorious historical heritage we have.

Apart from Derry walls, this 100m+ section of city wall is the only surviving artifact of the Williamite war in Ireland.

I actually had resigned myself to the fact that Limerick Council wished to bury its link with and support for English Royalists ( King James 2nd UK) .

But then out of the blue , I see that the Mayor of Limerick , the CEO of Limerick City Council and CEO of Limerick Civic trust, and a local French man (a French man who must now think it's safe to tip his hat to a French family which came to a guillotinal end along with 300,000 others in 1790 -1793) are going on a junket to Belgium to find the royalist bones of Patrick Sarsfield and ship him back to Limerick ( he was from Lucan btw)

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/news/645968/delegation-to-fly-out-to-burial-site-of-limerick-hero.html

But at least council and their mayor have their priorites right. Reminds me of Lilliput what goes on.


https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/news/645968/delegation-to-fly-out-to-burial-site-of-limerick-hero.html

Berty

I see the wisdom of the council was to add a second cycle lane on the groody link road opposite the one off the road.

It's also the first cycle lane I've seen that has lines going around the 3 roundabouts meaning it makes the inner and outer orbital lanes into a single lane. Imagine the way it should work like on the bus lane by the hospital. The bus lanes terminates just before the roundabout allowing those going onto the 2nd exit use the correct outer orbital(left) lane. On the Groody link there is no such thing, the white lines just follow around. If you're on the right hand lane entering the roundabout(coming from Ballysimon) by Caisleann na Habhainn going back around towards Ballysimon and the person on your left is going left towards UL then you both can and should enter the roundabout together but in this case you get squeezed together which could cause a crash. Who is in the wrong then you'd wonder, who has the right of way at all?

The width of the cycle lane means that van and truck this morning in front of me where both in the cycle lane and on the central line of the road as well.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708615#Comment_117708615

They dont really know what they are doing with cycle lanes and a lot of it is down to there not being a strict national standard. The on path ones are a pointless joke yet they are still being built and as for roundabouts each one seems to have a different set of rules for bikes. Shannon bridge, Dooradoyle and Kilmurry all have cycle lanes at roundabouts that line them up next to the other lanes but also away from them and seem to give equal right of way to vehicles that may be crossing over each other

Most annoying of all is some of the layouts around town seem to encourage cycling on paths despite it being illegal and Shannon street even has a sign warning drivers that it is a shared are so look out for pedestrians and cyclists as if cyclists are not to normally be expected on a road.

Just on the Groody thing did the widen the road to fit it in or just dray it on to the existing road?

I know the existing cycle lane was only wide enough for one way in some parts

Berty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117709857#Comment_117709857

Did not widen road, for some vehicles they don't now fit legally(as encroaching on the cycle lane is crossing a solid white line) on the road because of the cycle lane. The cycle lane isn't overly wide but just because the fact it is now also on the road, as well as off the road, means it has taken from the width of the lane.

On boards.ie, would be handy if you could quote a smaller element of somebodies post and not all of it :(

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117710153#Comment_117710153

It would have made sense if they were widening and landscaping that side of the road which will have to happen at some stage anyway.

Pretty much every time I get excited by the announcement of more cycle lanes the council find some way to mess it up

Cookiemunster

Talking about cycle lanes, the plans for the Condell Road were published for the Part 8 application. It's a two way cycle lane on the inbound side all the way in to the current cycle lane on the bridge. The bus lane will be moved outside this with the traffic lanes moved over to take in the old outbound cycle lane. The section between the Coonagh and Clondrinagh RABs will be the same as above with the hard shoulders being removed to allow space for the cycle and bus lanes.

The plans are available here