Limerick improvement projects

Silentcorner

Figerty wrote: »

You know it's a dead end for you. Good luck with living in the past.

What is a dead end?

I appreciate history...isn't that what we all should be trying to do?

Special Circumstances

Weaseling out of this post so are you? "Oh but I didn't explicitly say X was bad"... yeh right, you just lump in with a whole load of negative aspersions thrown at people who don't appreciate Limerick and its culture.

Silentcorner wrote: »

What Limerick City Centre lacks is vibrancy, which is footfall...not to be confused with character or soul, both of which Limerick is rammed full of...but I'd take our "lack of vibrancy" over Galways "drunken/cultured vibe" any day of the week...

You are of course entitled to your opinion, in fact I have met people who seem to have a downright hatred of Limerick City....they typically tick a number of the following boxes

They think Trad music is the best form of music in the world
They think GAA is the best sport in the world
They think drinking all day is "having the craic"
If they were to live in Cork/Dublin they would strongly prefer the Southside
They believe it is nice to eat in restuarantes that reflect their perceived status.
They think Galway is Irelands Cultured city
They think a great day out is any day that gives them an excuse to wear expensive clothes
They don't have an opinion on Political corruption
The are not mad about Dublin or Waterford

The more of the above boxes you tick, the stronger the dislike of Limerick, I find anyway...

Not sure what I mean by low culture? Really? Could you hazard a guess seeing as Galway has been made out to be a haven for herd mentality lowest common denominator culture for how many pages? If limerick culture is superior, and other cultures inferior, it's not a huge leap to imagine high culture and low culture as descriptions is it?????

I think that you're being more than a little evasive here to be honest, and that you actually think people are falling for it!

Silentcorner

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Weaseling out of this post so are you? "Oh but I didn't explicitly say X was bad"... yeh right, you just lump in with a whole load of negative aspersions thrown at people who don't appreciate Limerick and its culture.

I am not weaseling out of anything!!!! I do seem to have touched a raw nerve here tho...

Look at the language....I said "typically" indicating the presence of a generalisation....I clearly stated that it is people that tick a number of the listed boxes...I also stated that it is my experience....which it is...I have observed it over the years because I do find it perplexing....

I could have added that they also tend to love Garth Brooks, but that doesn't mean I have anything against him or consider him "low culture" or whatever!!! Stop twisting what I said!

The point I was making in this case is that the people who think that GAA is the best sport in the world can very often by blinded by that appreciation preventing them from enjoying other sports, not just a GAA supporters issue I might add...equally, I have found...in my experience....that people who love trad very often do not appreciate any other genres of music, again not unlike people who love other genres of music....that is NOT denegrading the GAA or Trad music for that matter...I have found in both cases above, that they do not particularly like Limerick at all....and are can be quiet vocal about it.... it is a generalisation....there are plenty who do not like/appreciate Limerick at all for any other number of reasons I am sure but I am talking about my experience....don't take it too personally...

I understand that Limerick is not to everyone's taste and never will be, I am fine with that...

Silentcorner

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Weaseling out of this post so are you? "Oh but I didn't explicitly say X was bad"... yeh right, you just lump in with a whole load of negative aspersions thrown at people who don't appreciate Limerick and its culture.



Not sure what I mean by low culture? Really? Could you hazard a guess seeing as Galway has been made out to be a haven for herd mentality lowest common denominator culture for how many pages? If limerick culture is superior, and other cultures inferior, it's not a huge leap to imagine high culture and low culture as descriptions is it?????

I think that you're being more than a little evasive here to be honest, and that you actually think people are falling for it!

I simply haven't heard the phrase "low culture" before, that is all...remember Galway has positioned itself as a "Cultural Jewel", it placed itself on that pedestal it is no surprise then that people will examine that a little bit more rigorously than a city that does not position itself as a Cultural Jewel....Galway has therefore positioned its culture to be superior to everyone else's...I really enjoy as much aspects Irish culture as I can, I enjoy the culture of Dublin/Cork, as I do Limericks....I am entitled to express my opinion as much as anybody else is...

I think people are falling for it???? I know I am in the minority....but I am fine with that...

Special Circumstances

Seems strange to lump a load of contradictory things together all the same.

Liking gaa etc and all these are good things so, if you're gonna do logical handstands to make out you didn't infer anything negative about them.

And not liking limerick is associated with these things by you.


So.. by any extension of sane logic, "not liking limerick" must also be a good thing following the direction of you argument.

Harsh. I thought you'd be the last person to come out with that kinda logic, seems to contradict your other posts.

Unless you perceive gaa trad etc to be negative things. Then the basic logical extension would fit right in with the rest of your points.

Silentcorner

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Seems strange to lump a load of contradictory things together all the same.

Liking gaa etc and all these are good things so, if you're gonna do logical handstands to make out you didn't infer anything negative about them.

And not liking limerick is associated with these things by you.


So.. by any extension of sane logic, "not liking limerick" must also be a good thing following the direction of you argument.

Harsh. I thought you'd be the last person to come out with that kinda logic, seems to contradict your other posts.

Unless you perceive gaa trad etc to be negative things. Then the basic logical extension would fit right in with the rest of your points.

Can someone explain this one to me?

Logical handstands??? I've a bad back!!!

Special Circumstances

Silentcorner wrote: »

Can someone explain this one to me?

Logical handstands??? I've a bad back!!!

These things you associate with "not liking limerick" - do you have a positive or negative attitude toward them?

Silentcorner

Special Circumstances wrote: »

These things you associate with "not liking limerick" - do you have a positive or negative attitude toward them?

I don' mind GAA or Trad music, I enjoy hurling...I am not mad about the entrenched GAA supporters or the entrenched Trad enthusiasts...

Lets just wrap it up...I mean no ill will I just outlined my experience...

Garry123

Galways culture consists of getting pissed in the city centre and watching greasy haired buskers with dogs on a string and calling it crack. I've been there many times and have yet to meet a Galwegian in a pub. Wall to wall tourists listening to stage Irish trad. Drunken hoards attending the races vomiting & urinating in shop doorways are having the crack. A restaurant threatening to close for next year's races because of all the crack. Some culture.

As for the GAA, I have a strong dislike for the typical GAA fan who consider me somehow less Irish because I don't follow hurling or football.

Warts and all give me Limerick any day, followed by Cork.

Special Circumstances

Tony123 and silentcorner, seeing as Galway and dingle etc are pulling in thousands of poor oul gullible tourists and our own home grown philistines as you seem to regard them, what is your pitch for limerick? What would these misfortunate unenlightened people be missing out on here if only Limerick was better promoted at home and abroad?

Silentcorner

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Tony123 and silentcorner, seeing as Galway and dingle etc are pulling in thousands of poor oul gullible tourists and our own home grown philistines as you seem to regard them, what is your pitch for limerick? What would these misfortunate unenlightened people be missing out on here if only Limerick was better promoted at home and abroad?

For a start I don't believe in the commercialisation of Culture,...in this country it will only lead to massive drinking sessions something this nation needs to move away from...

I do think Limerick people should make more of an effort to get out and engage with what is already there, to help that I would like to see the following...

I think Culture Night should become a weekend long event.
I think Open House weekend is excellent as it is.
I would like to see a festival/weekend celebrating the cities Industrial Past, tours of the factories that are still there and talks in the different venues...

I would like to see a Festival Of War!!! We are an Ancient City well versed in the Art of War...there have been 5 seiges of this city and most us would struggle to outline more than one or two of those...We could tell Paul Williams it is based on Murder Inc, him and his kind would flock to the city...

I would like to see The Limerick Soviet Celebrated every year in April with a food/music festival...Cleeves is a perfect venue and has an historical tie in with the Soviet...

I would like to see a festival celebrating the Fashion across the city...LSAD is a highly regarded Design College, there is a reason it is highly regarded...it is time to bring that out of the college and into the city centre...

I would like to see an International Limerick Poetry festival (altho one may already exist I always miss it)...taking place in selected cafes accross the city...

I would love to see a larger Film Festival, which may happen when Troy Studios opens...

I would like to see an Opera Festival, we have produced a number of International Opera stars over the years it would be nice to commemorate them...

We have excellent city centre venues...Cleeves, Old Sailors Home, Ormenton House, Hunt Museum, City Art Gallery, LSAD Gallery (a beautiful building), Shannon Boat Club, as well as The Milk Market and King Johns Castle and St Marys Cathedral... that all could take Accoustic music sessions from any number of local bands...I would love to see a weekend of Made In Limerick Music in these venues....

We have Marching bands, Dance Groups, theatre groups and loads of artists who would gladly help to enhance any of the above...

I don't really care if tourists show up, I would like for Limerick people to make more of an effort....altho to be fair that is changing...

The last thing I would do to attract visitors, is build a bridge....we don't need it!

pigtown

pigtown wrote: »

This is a thread for discussion on projects that have already been proposed. It isn't a thread for discussing new ideas for the city. We already have enough of those. It is also not a place to engage in council/goverment bashing. It's just a thread where people can let the rest of us know if there is any movement on some projects.

Any chance we could go back to the first post of the thread?

cgcsb

Limerick Improvement Projects, points summary:

1)Galway's ****
2)Limerick City Council is ****

Special Circumstances

cgcsb wrote: »

Limerick Improvement Projects, points summary:

1)Galway's ****
2)Limerick City Council is ****

Or
Galway is for philistines!
People should visit Limerick instead for 15 things that don't exist!

zulutango

Culture Night is the way forward. It really is the one event that showcases the great, genuine and unique attractions of the city rather than contrived bull**** that is all too common here and elsewhere (Galway, I'm looking at you!).

Rather than having a weekend event, I think if we had one Culture Night per month in the summer months it would do wonders for Limerick. It would really put the city on the map as a summer destination, rather than one where people leave in summer time. I'd heavily fund it because the knock-on benefits would be huge, but I'd be very careful about who and what projects get funding. There is so much cronyism and nepotism in this city that whoever is in control would have to be ruthless, while also being qualified and credible. Not sure who that could be.

Johnny_BravoIII

There are reasons why people choose to live and work in Galway and Cork over Limerick. It's not superficial paddywhackery or an RTE bias.

The perception however that more people choose to live in Galway is
frankly ridiculous.

I don't mean it in the competitive sense. I mean there are people who choose to live in places for a variety of reasons. Dismissing them as shallow gaa country peasants is insulting, disingenuous and a undermines the more interesting points you make.

This constant comparison of Limerick to Galway is really unhelpful. It really hurts the debate in general.

I feel that Limerick is a great place to live, I commute for no more than 15 minutes to work and back every day, I enjoy a range of activities, sport, theatre, music etc etc more often than not I can't afford to get to all the things I would like to....I feel I live in a city that is great to socialise in, very safe, nowhere is mobbed to uncomfortable levels (apart form Nancys) we do not get the "mania" that goes with the lowball tourist stuff you feel we should be pursuing...it is a city with a great sense of humour, home to loads of talented musicians, artists, writers and sports people from all walks of life,

This is a perfect description as to why I live here. I have found its much easier to build a high quality life here than Dublin, Cork or Galway.

Where were you when the City of Culture 2020 bid book was being drafted!!

" Limerick had been a non-place in Europe, in Ireland for a long time."

The point I'm making the Limerick v Galway thing never made any sense to me. The constant framing of Limerick in comparison to Galway is really unhelpful. Limerick is a much different animal than Galway for some of the reasons raised above. At a very basic level I would say Limerick feels like a large cosmopolitan urban environment, whereas Galway feels like a town. If the conversation is what Limerick is and can be, then the Galway reference is irrelevant. IMO Limerick should stand proudly, independently on the merits of its own unique culture. If referencing "future improvement projects" then we should look to comparative projects in other large European cities.

The RTE thing, I still don't buy. It's overstated as a reason for any issues the city may have. IMO it's a classic case of the cart before the horse.

zulutango

Special Circumstances wrote: »

I'm not afraid to admit I like a pint and some good trad, a good game of hurling. Even though these things have been connected with "low" or "cheap" culture over the last few pages. (Where EVs were revealed as inefficient and Galway revealed as culturally insignificant).

I've checked back and nobody said EVs were inefficient.

James Bond Junior

I'm from Galway. I live in Limerick. I prefer Limerick. I have a better quality of life than I would in Galway. My euro goes further in Limerick.

There is plenty to do in Limerick for the person living here, walks, kayaking, fishing, the market, good shopping, several third level institutions., an airport on our doorstep with transatlantic links to name but a few. All of the above don't need alcohol to work whereas Galway's attractions revolve around drink.

I really do believe that the curse of st munchin exists, that outsiders do better here than the locals. Limerick, you need to stop looking out at others and look into what we do have. Only when that attitude changes can Limerick begin to prosper..

Reputable Rog

I was in Limerick on Saturday and have to say I was impressed,great buzz in the market and there now seems to be real connectivity between that Area and the Newtown Pery around Thomas Street/Catherine Street/Little Catherine Street/Bedford Row.
A stricter policy on retail uses would help matters greatly, particularly around the Southern End of Cruises Street/Chapel Street and William Street.
A few more pedestrian crossings would be helpful was well.

Special Circumstances

zulutango wrote: »

I've checked back and nobody said EVs were inefficient.

Grand, cars least efficient, joules per person per km was an endorsement of EVs.

Same as "lowbrow* GAA & trad loving hicks hate Limerick" was an endorsement of GAA and trad.



*For the benefit of SilentCorner - I wouldn't want your back to give out making the most minor of leaps/hops/tiny skips of comprehension http://lmgtfy.com/?q=low+brow

zulutango

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Grand, cars least efficient, joules per person per km was an endorsement of EVs.

Cars are the least efficient form of transport, in many ways. EVs are only clean if the electricity that charges them is generated using renewable energy systems. But they're still very inefficient in terms of getting people about the place, for the energy that they consume. It's off-topic, but I'm just saying it to refute your implication that there is some kind of ill-informed / whingey / luddite agenda here.

Special Circumstances

Grand grand, we can add EVs to the long list of things that were 100% not denigrated in this thread. Ordinary Joes, People who like trad, people who like GAA, people who like Galway, Galway itself.

Back to "making the non-place da wan place!"

Jimmy Garlic

Limerick has loads going for it. A well laid out grid city with dozens of streets, unlike Galway, which is more or less a glorified town.

marno21

Galway would be a much better place if the planning geniuses hadn't decided to put all the employment on one side of the city and all the housing in Knocknacarra on the west side of the city, seperated by a river, and connect them with a low grade relief road with lots of congested junctions. Of course, relief is on the way in the form of a €700 million expressway involving two tunnels (one under the racecourse of all places) and a large viaduct over the River Corrib.

dave 27

If you think that road is going to be built for that price you must be smoking something. You'd build a light rail system for that price, such a disaster if that's their cheapest alternative

Special Circumstances

Special Circumstances wrote: »

seeing as Galway and dingle etc are pulling in thousands of poor oul gullible tourists and our own home grown philistines as you seem to regard them, what is your pitch for limerick? What would these misfortunate unenlightened people be missing out on here if only Limerick was better promoted at home and abroad?

Silentcorner wrote: »

For a start I don't believe in the commercialisation of Culture,...in this country it will only lead to massive drinking sessions something this nation needs to move away from...

I do think Limerick people should make more of an effort to get out and engage with what is already there, to help that I would like to see the following...

....
....
....

I think Culture Night should become a weekend long event.
I think Open House weekend is excellent as it is.
I would like to see a festival/weekend celebrating the cities Industrial Past, tours of the factories that are still there and talks in the different venues...
...
...
...
We have excellent city centre venues...Cleeves, Old Sailors Home, Ormenton House, Hunt Museum, City Art Gallery, LSAD Gallery (a beautiful building), Shannon Boat Club, as well as The Milk Market and King Johns Castle and St Marys Cathedral... !

For the sake of brevity, rather than a slight against Silentcorner, I've deleted a load of things that don't exist (yet?).

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Limerick has loads going for it. A well laid out grid city with dozens of streets, unlike Galway, which is more or less a glorified town.

Come on guys, there has to be more. The castle is great, but its full potential was hamstrung decades ago with the choice of development around it.

For the purpose of keeping things on topic - I think Limerick improvement projects should include some element of restoring/emphasising the city's best features.

Garry123

What do you consider to be the city's best features and what restoration / emphasis would you suggest?

zulutango

Garry123 wrote: »

What do you consider to be the city's best features and what restoration / emphasis would you suggest?

Possibly the best, most unique feature of our city is the Georgian section. Most people see it as ugly and derelict (because it mostly is!) but it could be turned into something that would be the envy of cities all over Europe. That can only start by banning cars from it, almost entirely, and doing major upgrade work to the streets. Within 10 years we could have a thriving, bustling city which people want to live in and hundreds of thousands of tourists want to visit. Simple.

dashoonage

We have a Georgian section ?

cgcsb

marno21 wrote: »

Galway would be a much better place if the planning geniuses hadn't decided to put all the employment on one side of the city and all the housing in Knocknacarra on the west side of the city, seperated by a river, and connect them with a low grade relief road with lots of congested junctions. Of course, relief is on the way in the form of a €700 million expressway involving two tunnels (one under the racecourse of all places) and a large viaduct over the River Corrib.

€10,000 per head of the City's population is a bit steep alright, when just putting in quality public transport would produce greater benefits and save 90% of the cost of a mega-road.