Limerick improvement projects

air

I'd agree but Dublin is in an even worse position and is one of our main competitors.
On the plus side Limerick is a lot more open to tall buildings in the city centre which is a big competitive advantage vs Dublin.
There is also plenty of available development land in the city centre area.
Build a bit high end residential tower in the vicinity of the office block and the accomodation problem is solved.
A lot to be said for building a large tower and fitting out the floors as required ala Travel Lodge in Castletroy.

wigsa100

air wrote: »

I'd agree but Dublin is in an even worse position and is one of our main competitors.

Don't agree with that. In Dublin, if you're willing to pay for it, you'll find somewhere to live. In my recent experience here it's impossible to find somewhere decent, whether you have a big budget or not. That goes for town and Castletroy side anyway.

zulutango

We have the strange situation in Limerick where most people who are renting in the city centre are paying very low rents, and at the same time there are a hell of a lot of people willing to pay a lot more in order to get a place in the centre. I'd imagine it's only a matter of time before landlords and letting agencies cop on to this and drastically increase the rents (there is evidence of this happening already). That in turn will be the incentive for developers to look at building new residential blocks and renovating old ones in the city centre.

MrJones2013

Treepole wrote: »

Where were they going to be "enticed" to?
Where in the city center could have accommodated them?

That's the thing, there was no where in the city centre to entice them to, as Zulutango said the Hanging Gardens and Bishops Quay are late coming on stream but hopefully when they are almost complete there'll be tenants ready to move in!

air

wigsa100 wrote: »

Don't agree with that. In Dublin, if you're willing to pay for it, you'll find somewhere to live. In my recent experience here it's impossible to find somewhere decent, whether you have a big budget or not. That goes for town and Castletroy side anyway.

Short term you may well be correct but in the medium to longer term Limerick has a lot more potential to develop available sites in good locations to meet any increased demand for accommodation.

Special Circumstances

air wrote: »

Short term you may well be correct but in the medium to longer term Limerick has a lot more potential to develop available sites in good locations to meet any increased demand for accommodation.

Are they waiting to time the completion for the next slump soft landing or what?

air

Who's "they" exactly?
By the sounds of it rents are going to increase a lot in Limerick over the short to medium term in which case private property owners and developers will have an incentive to redevelop vacant sites.
Where Limerick has an advantage is a plentiful supply of vacant or underutilised land in the city centre area and a city council that is happy to grant permission for mid rise developments.

Reputable Rog

air wrote: »

I'd agree but Dublin is in an even worse position and is one of our main competitors.
On the plus side Limerick is a lot more open to tall buildings in the city centre which is a big competitive advantage vs Dublin.
There is also plenty of available development land in the city centre area.
Build a bit high end residential tower in the vicinity of the office block and the accomodation problem is solved.
A lot to be said for building a large tower and fitting out the floors as required ala Travel Lodge in Castletroy.

Limerick is not a competitor of Dublin.

Special Circumstances

air wrote: »

Who's "they" exactly?

Who are "private property owners and developers" exactly? Are they "they" then? They are though, aren't they ... exactly eh?

air wrote: »

By the sounds of it rents are going to increase a lot in Limerick over the short to medium term in which case private property owners and developers will have an incentive to redevelop vacant sites.
Where Limerick has an advantage is a plentiful supply of vacant or underutilised land in the city centre area and a city council that is happy to grant permission for mid rise developments.

When is the short term exactly? We're talking at least medium term on a human scale I would have thought before any significant developments can be started from scratch and completed in some sort of responsible manner.

zulutango

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Limerick is not a competitor of Dublin.

How is it not?

Reputable Rog

zulutango wrote: »

How is it not?

Dublin is a large urban conurbation with the critical mass needed to attract large scale multinationals and finance houses with an international airport offering a huge variety of destinations.
Limerick is a provincial city about the size of a medium sized town in most other countries, Limericks opportunity is in working with Cork and Galway to create a counterbalance to Dublin.
It will never be a competitor in real terms.

zulutango

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Dublin is a large urban conurbation with the critical mass needed to attract large scale multinationals and finance houses with an international airport offering a huge variety of destinations.
Limerick is a provincial city about the size of a medium sized town in most other countries, Limericks opportunity is in working with Cork and Galway to create a counterbalance to Dublin.
It will never be a competitor in real terms.

I see what you're saying in that it doesn't compete on an even footing, but it competes all the same. I mean, there is plenty of commercial activity and industry in Dublin that could take place here in Limerick. So, we are and should be competing for this.

Vanquished

Another perspective on the proposed Bishops Quay office building.

johnnyryan89

Vanquished wrote: »

Another perspective on the proposed Bishops Quay office building.

Not a bad view, pity they couldn't get the guards a new station somewhere else and have the whole block done.

zulutango

The more I look at it the less enthusiastic I am for it. It's not exactly an impressive design, is it? It's a big square, glass box. It's not exactly, on a par with the new buildings gone up around Grand Canal Dock in Dublin or Albert Quay in Cork.

Shouldn't we be aiming a lot higher? (pardon the pun)

MrLaurel

zulutango wrote: »

The more I look at it the less enthusiastic I am for it. It's not exactly an impressive design, is it?

Is there any development that occurred in Limerick in the last 20 years that you actually like? You seem to be a "glass half empty" type in regards to Limerick at least.

zulutango

MrLaurel wrote: »

Is there any development that occurred in Limerick in the last 20 years that you actually like? You seem to be a "glass half empty" type in regards to Limerick at least.

Howley's Quay, Riverpoint, Strand are all ok. The Carlton Apartments are impressive too. We don't exactly have world class modern architecture in Limerick though, do we?

The Milk Market refurb is great, and the Graduate Entry Medical School in UL is fantastic, as is The Living Bridge. Also, I really like the new buildings that have gone up in UL in the last few years. I like the Travel Lodge building, but it's location is an issue obviously. Think it would look great in the city by the quays.

I've looked closely at the plans for the Hanging Gardens and they are very good (rather unlike the original plan by Robert Butler / Healy's)

Is there anything decent that I've missed?

cgcsb

zulutango wrote: »

How is it not?

Scale. Google will buy a building in Dublin's docklands, surrounded by other ICT companies with an immediate pool of talent and an easy connection to the rest of the world, they wouldn't even settle for establishing in Dublin's suburbs(perhaps Sandyford at a push). Limerick will attract smaller companies for whom Dublin rents represent a barrier to entry. The rent difference to the bigger companies is an irrelevance.

cgcsb

looks great, good to see some mid rise in Limerick

Vanquished

zulutango wrote: »

The more I look at it the less enthusiastic I am for it. It's not exactly an impressive design, is it? It's a big square, glass box. It's not exactly, on a par with the new buildings gone up around Grand Canal Dock in Dublin or Albert Quay in Cork.

Shouldn't we be aiming a lot higher? (pardon the pun)

It's not the worst proposal ever but at the same time it's not exactly a striking statement of a building either. It's just a little featureless and dull. A deviation from the standard bulky, block shape with some curves and indentations would be welcome.

I wouldn't be holding One Albert Quay up as a triumph of architectural magnificence I must say. As far as I'm concerned it's just a ubiquitous glass box. It's in no way unique or innovative. Despite how many times the Irish Examiner try to remind us that it's "Irelands smartest office building!"

On the whole we have a poor record when it comes to the design of larger scale buildings like this in Ireland. The approach is usually extremely conservative and the finished product uninspiring!

zulutango

Albert Quay on the inside is very impressive. I was down there lately at some meetings. If you haven't been inside, I'd recommend a visit!

zulutango

MrLaurel wrote: »

Is there any development that occurred in Limerick in the last 20 years that you actually like? You seem to be a "glass half empty" type in regards to Limerick at least.

It's worth pointing out here that some of the worst, most damaging projects in Limerick City in recent decades were overwhelmingly lauded as good ones at the planning stage.

When it comes to projects that will have a big impact on the city immediately and for generations to come, it's better to be be questioning and critical than blindly enthusiastic.

Garry123

zulutango wrote: »

Albert Quay on the inside is very impressive. I was down there lately at some meetings. If you haven't been inside, I'd recommend a visit!

And how do you know that this proposed building won't be equally as impressive on the inside when completed?

Most people experience a building from the outside, to criticise this proposal and yet praise the interior of a similar building comes across as rather odd.

Do you have expertise in building, architecture, design, planning etc? You make an awful lot of criticisms of Limericks buildings, streets etc I assume you do so from a technical view point.

dave 27

Out of interest does anyone know how much the river point development was worth? This is a 40 million euro one of similar height and size, I doubt they would just throw it up without any nice interior, especially being a landmark building too

zulutango

Garry123 wrote: »

And how do you know that this proposed building won't be equally as impressive on the inside when completed?

Most people experience a building from the outside, to criticise this proposal and yet praise the interior of a similar building comes across as rather odd.

Do you have expertise in building, architecture, design, planning etc? You make an awful lot of criticisms of Limericks buildings, streets etc I assume you do so from a technical view point.

The big, square, glass box suggests that it may not be a very innovative design. I'm just questioning it, and I think that's the right thing to do. I haven't viewed the plans yet, but will be doing so.

Yes, I have lots of experience and/or exposure in all of the above areas. It's what I work at. How about you?

Tefral

Id love if they did something like the Strabags Dancing Towers in Hamburg.

Garry123

zulutango wrote: »

The big, square, glass box suggests that it may not be a very innovative design. I'm just questioning it, and I think that's the right thing to do. I haven't viewed the plans yet, but will be doing so.

Yes, I have lots of experience and/or exposure in all of the above areas. It's what I work at. How about you?

Wouldn't know one building from another from a technical point of view. Aesthetics are a matter of taste. Architecture, like art, can be a bit like the emperors new clothes.

Poxyshamrock

Tefral wrote: »

Id love if they did something like the Strabags Dancing Towers in Hamburg.

Hopefully this new building could be the catalyst to get more high rise buildings along the quays. One could easily go where the old Dunnes is. Would be no harm to have Steamboat Quay levelled in the near future too.

zulutango

Garry123 wrote: »

Wouldn't know one building from another from a technical point of view. Aesthetics are a matter of taste. Architecture, like art, can be a bit like the emperors new clothes.

This isn't an argument about aesthetics. I'm saying that the basic design may point to it being a basic building in every sense. That would be a huge missed opportunity for the city.

zulutango

Poxyshamrock wrote: »

Hopefully this new building could be the catalyst to get more high rise buildings along the quays. One could easily go where the old Dunnes is. Would be no harm to have Steamboat Quay levelled in the near future too.

And Arthur's Quay, Harvey's Quay and half of Sarsfield House (refurb the other half)

edit: how could I leave out Mount kenneth!!