Limerick improvement projects

Limerick Dude

zulutango wrote: »

Today is the last day for submissions regarding the Bishop's Quay development.

I had a look through it and what struck me was that in early planning meetings the developer wanted it to be primarily a residential development, but the Council insisted on it being an office development first and foremost.

Had a quick look at the submissions myself, in addition to the one discussed here regarding the loss of privacy for the person who has an apartment in the Howleys Quay complex, other submissions relate to protected structures and loss of Georgian architecture. There were also submissions supporting the project.

Decision date due at the end of the month, I really hope the developers have their homework done and this doesn't get delayed to ABP.

Cookiemunster

Limerick Dude wrote: »

Decision date due at the end of the month, I really hope the developers have their homework done and this doesn't get delayed to ABP.

Even if they have all their homework done and the council approve it, it can still get referred to ABP.

Vanquished

zulutango wrote: »

Today is the last day for submissions regarding the Bishop's Quay development.

I had a look through it and what struck me was that in early planning meetings the developer wanted it to be primarily a residential development, but the Council insisted on it being an office development first and foremost.

The original design concepts for an apartment building were very mediocre. Stumpy, bulky and unimaginative!

The actual proposal that they submitted is vastly superior.

Limerick Dude

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Even if they have all their homework done and the council approve it, it can still get referred to ABP.

Is there a certain 'weight' behind a submission which means it gets referred to ABP?

I'd imagine the 'loss of privacy' argument wouldn't lead to ABP but perhaps a submission relating to lack of sunlight, amenity or loss of Georgian heritage might?

Cookiemunster

Limerick Dude wrote: »

Is there a certain 'weight' behind a submission which means it gets referred to ABP?

I'd imagine the 'loss of privacy' argument wouldn't lead to ABP but perhaps a submission relating to lack of sunlight, amenity or loss of Georgian heritage might?

Anyone who made a submission to the planning application can appeal a decision to APB within 4 weeks of the decision being made. http://www.pleanala.ie/guide/appeal_guide.htm

Jofspring

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Looks like the upgrade works on Parnell St and Davis St are about to start. https://t.co/OnUGx9GrFq
18 weeks seems VERY optimistic though.

We have a business on davis street and this is the first I'm hearing about that commencement date.

Mc Love

Great - I'm going to be delayed in the mornings now! So will a lot of other people as a lot of people come into the city via mallow/parnell st. Just checked again, if the work isnt going to start until 9:30am it might not be so bad.

Anatidaephobia

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/219555/big-plans-for-old-cleeve-s-factory-in-limerick.html


I wouldn't exactly describe a 14 storey building as "towering", but it still looks like a promising development. I think the convention centre idea is an interesting one.

Jofspring

Would have been cool to see a smaller version of the 3 arena there. This country is seriously lacking in a good mid sized venue. If it was to happen it would be Dublin though.

mart 23

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Looks like the upgrade works on Parnell St and Davis St are about to start. https://t.co/OnUGx9GrFq
18 weeks seems VERY optimistic though.

Hi
Did this work commence.?

adaminho

mart 23 wrote: »

Hi
Did this work commence.?

Davis street has been closed all week anyway.

Jofspring

Ya preliminary work on Davis street has started. It's now a one way heading towards the station(even though people are completely ignoring it).

Exeggcute

Cllr Cian Prendiville of the Anti-Austerity Alliance warned that there is a need to develop social housing at Cleeve’s.

“I think it would be a mistake to assume people want a 15-storey office block there. It would also be a mistake if council spends millions on three big projects – the Opera Centre, the Hanging Gardens and Cleeve’s – and not a single social house is built. Spending millions developing offices in the middle of a housing crisis does not make sense.” He also called for a commemoration of the Limerick Soviet at Cleeve’s, taking into account the role the former factory played in the lockout.

For the love of god...

mart 23

Today the planning dept have asked for further information regards the Bishops. Quay development.

zulutango

mart 23 wrote: »

Today the planning dept have asked for further information regards the Bishops. Quay development.

Any idea what the further information request relates to?

Vanquished

Council planners had 8 weeks to assess this application and they request further information 1 day before a decision was due!

We really have an incredibly inefficient planning system in this country!

Reputable Rog

Vanquished wrote: »

Council planners had 8 weeks to assess this application and they request further information 1 day before a decision was due!

We really have an incredibly inefficient planning system in this country!

There's a minimum five weeks before they can issue a decision. There are also other things going on besides this development.
The Irish system is actually hasty in the extreme.
Chances are, most of the F.I. has been prepared or in the process following discussions between the PA and the developers agents.

Vanquished

I wouldn't exactly call it "hasty". A further information request can be issued at any point once the original application has been received. There were some fairly obvious concerns about aspects of this particular application such as the scale of interventions in the Bishop's Palace and the resulting loss of historic fabric etc. It's not unreasonable to expect FI to be sought in a timely manner and not at the very end of the 8 week period.

The applicant has 6 months to submit a response to the local authority who then must make a decision within 4 weeks. There is a further 4 week window during which appeals can be lodged with An Bord Pleanala (and this project is a certainty to be appealed). It could take up a further 6 months or more for ABP to rule on a case and of course those rulings are notoriously inconsistent and hard to call.

It could very easily be this time next year before this application is finalised one way or another.

Reputable Rog

No, they must wait a minimum period of 5 weeks before issuing a decision or requesting FI. I am completely familiar with the planning system and know all about the appeal period etc. I don't need it explained to me.
I'm also familiar with other planning systems and compared to most others, it is very hasty.
Systems like the US and Canada require an intensive pre planning process which involves gaining various certificates of compliance with statutory codes before you can even lodge an application.
8 weeks therefore is a particularly short window.

Vanquished

I couldn't agree with that. In my experience pre planning discussions are extremely onerous and ultimately frustrating. You get mired in a sea of regulations and directives and yet having satisfied those requirements you can then be hit with yet more compliance requests. Despite not being previously advised that such information or documentation was required.

Having to wait up to 12 months or even longer for determination of an application is pathetic in my book!

Reputable Rog

Vanquished wrote: »

I couldn't agree with that. In my experience pre planning discussions are extremely onerous and ultimately frustrating. You get mired in a sea of regulations and directives and yet having satisfied those requirements you can then be hit with yet more compliance requests. Despite not being previously advised that such information or documentation was required.

Having to wait up to 12 months or even longer for determination of an application is pathetic in my book!

Well maybe if you did your homework you wouldn't be waiting 12 months.
A lot of agents are chancers and know what the planning authorities require but deliberately leave out basic details in order to profit from f.i.

Vanquished

Sure I suppose not everyone is as special as you!

Planners are well known for moving the goalposts. Deviating from previously agreed fundamentals. Applicants tend to have no control over delays resulting from frivolous and dubiously motivated objections to ABP either.

Reputable Rog

I fail to see how they can move the goalposts when the development strategy for an area is clearly set out in LAP's and Development Plans, backed up by regulations and the act ( as amended).
It's developers taking shortcuts where the problem lies.

Are you saying there should be no third party appeal rights ?

Vanquished

Local Authorities have been reprimanded for flouting Departmental directives and policies and for not adhering to their own development plans rigorously enough. Although I was more referring to issues such as design principles, materials, signage etc.

Where did you pluck that nonsensical notion out of?! Of course appeals to an independent planning body should be permitted. They are an integral part of a functioning planning system. If you had read the post properly I said frivolous appeals. You know the type where Mary and Pat lodge an objection against a project citing the ubiquitous "out of character with the street/area" line. When in reality it's either a stalling tactic. Or they just don't fancy having someone else living or operating a business adjacent to them.

Appellants making such dubious and flimsy appeals should have to demonstrate that there are clear and legitimate grounds for their objection before it can be accepted. An Bord Pleanala could do with adopting a tougher stance in this regard. It has the power to do so.

Brennans Row

Riverside Office Plan Put On Hold (Limerick Chronicle)

Seven objections to the proposed Bishop's Quay development.

The Irish Georgian Society, two local businesses US Bargain Stores and Squire McGuires Pub, plus four local residents.

Cookiemunster

Brennans Row wrote: »

Riverside Office Plan Put On Hold (Limerick Chronicle)

Seven objections to the proposed Bishop's Quay development.

The Irish Georgian Society, two local businesses US Bargain Stores and Squire McGuires Pub, plus four local residents.

What a complete and utter non story form the Leader. They've basically reprinted selected segments the public submissions to make a story.
The project is on hold? The planners looking for further information from the developer is not putting the whole project on hold, and there's no evidence that the request has anything to do with the objections.

Poxyshamrock

Brennans Row wrote: »

Riverside Office Plan Put On Hold (Limerick Chronicle)

Seven objections to the proposed Bishop's Quay development.

The Irish Georgian Society, two local businesses US Bargain Stores and Squire McGuires Pub, plus four local residents.

Surprised at the two local businesses objecting on the basis of light. One is a dark pub and the other has a narrow door with sleeping bags and clothing obscuring the door/window. :pac:

Tefral

I'm amused at the objectors "right to light" there is none.

Mc Love

Tefral wrote: »

I'm amused at the objectors "right to light" there is none.

I cant imagine there being an issue as the light would have been blocked by the HOMS building, but the owner of the sporting goods store sits out in the sun on sunny days anyway. But light is a funny one as others have posted!

zulutango

It's an irresponsible article from Nick Rabbits / The Limerick Leader. The project is not on hold. It's merely going through the usual planning process, as any project must.

If I were the developer or the senior planner in the city Council I would look for a retraction of that story.