Limerick improvement projects

Glenomra

I cannot find a mention, but then that's probably my failing

Vanquished

zulutango wrote: »

Reputable Rog wrote: »

I don't get it. I just think Limerick gets shafted every time. Even the way the media reports things, it's always Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick. It's never Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway.

Well, the one for everyone in the audience approach to infrastructure investment causes more harm than good. It may be that Galway and Cork should get the investment and Limerick shouldn't. As a country we have to prioritise. Limerick has no birthright to be the third or second city. It should get the investment if it's the right place for it. And there's arguments both for and against that. The strongest argument in our favour is having Shannon Airport on our doorstep.

We were never going to get preferential treatment but the council and the other local representative bodies have to continue to fight for funding for the services and infrastructure that are sorely lacking in the city. The obvious one is public transport. We need far more bus lanes, cycling and pedestrian facilities etc. The city centre public realm also needs major investment and improvement.

This may be just me but I think we need to be wary of what appears to be a concerted effort, orchestrated or not to undermine Limerick and exclude it from discussions etc regarding urban centres. There seems to be a determination almost in some quarters to portray the media darling Galway as the third city. Many ignorant clowns are buying this too.

Ultimately we have to get our own house in order and hopefully responsible planning and smart investment will see the city growing sustainably in to the future. Population growth has been weak in Limerick over the last 25 years. This has to be turned around in order for the city to thrive and prosper in a viable way.

mart 23

Glenomra wrote: »

I cannot find a mention, but then that's probably my failing

Its not mentioned. Completion of Coonagh to Knocklisheen is. Im sure It will be mentioned as part of the 10 year plan when the route and design planning is completed .

marno21

Road priorities beyond 2022 in the plan aren't very clearly defined because a lot of projects that will be done as part of the plan between 2022-2027 haven't been planned or designed yet. The plan makes allowance for this and says that future projects will be prioritised if the business case for them is in line with the plan and the public spending code.

Coonagh-Knocklisheen will be done as part of the plan, the rest of it could make it in there if the Council can get it pushed in there.

pigtown

The Strand hotel is seeking to add 20 new bedrooms to be built on the roof of the current hotel.

Silentcorner

Vanquished wrote: »

We were never going to get preferential treatment but the council and the other local representative bodies have to continue to fight for funding for the services and infrastructure that are sorely lacking in the city. The obvious one is public transport. We need far more bus lanes, cycling and pedestrian facilities etc. The city centre public realm also needs major investment and improvement.

This may be just me but I think we need to be wary of what appears to be a concerted effort, orchestrated or not to undermine Limerick and exclude it from discussions etc regarding urban centres. There seems to be a determination almost in some quarters to portray the media darling Galway as the third city. Many ignorant clowns are buying this too.

Ultimately we have to get our own house in order and hopefully responsible planning and smart investment will see the city growing sustainably in to the future. Population growth has been weak in Limerick over the last 25 years. This has to be turned around in order for the city to thrive and prosper in a viable way.

This was evident in the first draft of this plan when it was released back in November I think....I couldn't believe what I was reading....I can't find a link to it now unfortunately...

Limerick is always relegated to the "poor city with bad planning issues and poverty/crime etc"....this is evident to anyone who consumes Dublin media (which is RTE/Irish Times/Indo/TV3 plus tabloids)...it is actually a symptom of the insular nature of the South Dublin mindset...where all the power and influence in this state resides....which is the problem this 2040 plan is trying to address...Waterford may as well not exist in the minds of the same people by the way...

As long as all the power and influence in this state is centralized in a very dysfunctional city then this city will always struggle to grow....it is impossible for a city with our population to double in size without state assistance...

This plan does not even scratch the surface of the deep dysfunction that is now evident in our state institutions...I find it all very disappointing...if 30% of that plan is actually implemented i'll be surprised...

Glenomra

imo the Independent is not the worst offender. it has occasional positive stories about Limerick city, some excellent features. the main problem lies with the Elites, Rte and the Irish Times. its Dublin and Galway. we can all play our part by highlighting the City's positives. I know, i do. Eventually, the various improvement, Garden site, Film studio, opera centre etc will be noticed. Maybe, in ways Limerick by flying under the radar has a unique opportunity to make real progress. Speak to a contractor, Limerick is getting much busier. we need more events however.

damowill

The media may have Galway as their darling and 3rd city however I don't believe the government do. Galway city centre is lovely and they have attracted a lot of companies especially in the medical devices sector however infrastructure is a complete mess due to bad planning. Limerick is miles ahead in terms of infrastructure and layout. With plans for the northern distribution road the city has a ring road with access to and from our main industrial estates, raheen and plassey with a tunnel and dual carriage way to shannon. The city centre has ambitious plans of it's own with the opera centre, hanging gardens, Cleeve's and Bishops Quay development. The initial plans for o connell st were underwhelming and need to be planned out further. But if you work for the IDA then Limerick is a much easier sell than Galway and maybe even Cork.

zulutango

Northern Distributor Road is a mistake lads. It's classic car-centric infrastructure planning from the 1950's. We'd only be following Galway and be creating a major headache for ourselves down the line. The way we'd really get an edge on the other cities would be to invest heavily in quality sustainable transport infrastructure. We actually have a chance to do that, Galway doesn't because of the way they've allowed their city develop in the last three decades. We've made some similar mistakes here but not as many, thankfully.

Glenomra

My problem with the distributor road phase two, is not the spatial one but the fact that for the reasons I gave previously it will never be built. Just last week, the proposed route from across the Shannon was under water, a mile and a half. Who is going to give planning permission to build on the largest floodplain of the Lower River Shannon. People should be 'screaming' to get UL to open up their Clare campus to vehicular traffic not putting their faith in an unattainable road.

mart 23

The Rugby museum has got approval from the council Fines jewellers were the lone objectors.

Vanquished

pigtown wrote: »

The Strand hotel is seeking to add 20 new bedrooms to be built on the roof of the current hotel.

A clear indicator of an upturn in the local economy. If only the Savoy would venture down the same route instead of their mental plan to ruin the mill building!

Silentcorner

zulutango wrote: »

Northern Distributor Road is a mistake lads. It's classic car-centric infrastructure planning from the 1950's. We'd only be following Galway and be creating a major headache for ourselves down the line. The way we'd really get an edge on the other cities would be to invest heavily in quality sustainable transport infrastructure. We actually have a chance to do that, Galway doesn't because of the way they've allowed their city develop in the last three decades. We've made some similar mistakes here but not as many, thankfully.

I've actually come around to the idea that you are correct....

If you look at each of the Irish Cities (and Irish cities are supposed to be the generators of economic activity and wealth and population growth) they are all dysfunctional to varying degrees....largely due to planning....for some reason, Limericks planning issues are probably the least severe...for now...

Dublin's principal piece of infrastructure is the M50, which is now at maximum capacity...and they have no where else to go...because of the low rise suburban sprawl (which enriched land owners and developers) we will never be able to afford to buy the land within the city required to provide a good public transport system.

Cork County Council (with it's own planning culture issues) has ensured the population growth occur in sprawling satellite towns like Ballincollig, Carrigaline, Blarney, Glanmire, etc it will be difficult to achieve the critical mass of people required to offer an efficient light rail network...meaning a heavily car dependent future for the sizeable population of those areas...

Galway is a planning basket case...it is difficult to see how they are going to achieve growth in the coming years...they cannot address the issues they have today!!

A city needs to provide access to Employment/Education/Amenities in a timely manner to every citizen, young old, rich or poor, with or without own transport, therefore population density is the goal, suburban sprawl is the enemy....

But, the Department of Environment, based in Dublin, holds the right to determine the fate of all our cities and towns...that is what we are up against...

That and Paddy's love of the three bed semi....

Silentcorner

Glenomra wrote: »

imo the Independent is not the worst offender. it has occasional positive stories about Limerick city, some excellent features. the main problem lies with the Elites, Rte and the Irish Times. its Dublin and Galway. we can all play our part by highlighting the City's positives. I know, i do. Eventually, the various improvement, Garden site, Film studio, opera centre etc will be noticed. Maybe, in ways Limerick by flying under the radar has a unique opportunity to make real progress. Speak to a contractor, Limerick is getting much busier. we need more events however.

The Irish Independent was the institute that declared Limerick to be the Murder Capital of Europe in an obscene/farcical twisted presentation of statistics back a few years....unfortunately, in Irish media, the only institutions that have ever attempted balance when it comes to Limerick is the Irish Examiner, the standalone media outlet that hasn't prostituted the media narrative of Limerick is TnG, they have aired some excellent pieces on the city and region over the years...

Glenomra

Fair point

Reputable Rog

Silentcorner wrote: »

Cork County Council (with it's own planning culture issues) has ensured the population growth occur in sprawling satellite towns like Ballincollig, Carrigaline, Blarney, Glanmire, etc it will be difficult to achieve the critical mass of people required to offer an efficient light rail network...meaning a heavily car dependent future for the sizeable population of those areas...

Galway is a planning basket case...it is difficult to see how they are going to achieve growth in the coming years...they cannot address the issues they have today!!


That and Paddy's love of the three bed semi....

You seem to think that Cork County Council planned in a vacuum.
Growth in all the towns you identified was earmarked as far back as the 1970's in the original LUTS plan, further backed up in CASP and the birth of Metropolitan Cork in the geographic lexicon.
Cork City Council on the other hand failed to anything of note for the past 30 years other than blame the County.
They allowed one high rise development, The Elysian, which they claimed was a mistake and amended the City Development Plan to place height restrictions on buildings in the City Centre, they also allowed Mahon to happen which is had a very pernicious influence on the City Centre in terms of retailing and employment.
You might point to Opera Lane and One Albert Quay to counter my argument but these are only sticking plasters on a tough situation for the City Centre, the western end of Patrick Street is in serious trouble, a giant tracksuit shop will not fix it.
Also where new housing developments were proposed the City Council failed to impose higher densities.
The new City Boundary will also further reduce the population density and make it more difficult to achieve the critical mass needed for projects like Iight rail.

Silentcorner

Reputable Rog wrote: »

You seem to think that Cork County Council planned in a vacuum.
Growth in all the towns you identified was earmarked as far back as the 1970's in the original LUTS plan, further backed up in CASP and the birth of Metropolitan Cork in the geographic lexicon.
Cork City Council on the other hand failed to anything of note for the past 30 years other than blame the County.
They allowed one high rise development, The Elysian, which they claimed was a mistake and amended the City Development Plan to place height restrictions on buildings in the City Centre, they also allowed Mahon to happen which is had a very pernicious influence on the City Centre in terms of retailing and employment.
You might point to Opera Lane and One Albert Quay to counter my argument but these are only sticking plasters on a tough situation for the City Centre, the western end of Patrick Street is in serious trouble, a giant tracksuit shop will not fix it.
Also where new housing developments were proposed the City Council failed to impose higher densities.
The new City Boundary will also further reduce the population density and make it more difficult to achieve the critical mass needed for projects like Iight rail.

What I meant was that Cork County Council have long been accused of planning irregularities and I pointed to the satellite towns as an example..

I know the city authority has its issues, but from a commuting point of view, those towns are, in my opinion, an excellent example on how wrong planning a city can be...the city/county divide merely exacerbates the problem...the Metropolitian Cork Area is meaningless really...

mdmix

Silentcorner wrote: »

I've actually come around to the idea that you are correct....

If you look at each of the Irish Cities (and Irish cities are supposed to be the generators of economic activity and wealth and population growth) they are all dysfunctional to varying degrees....largely due to planning....for some reason, Limericks planning issues are probably the least severe...for now...

Dublin's principal piece of infrastructure is the M50, which is now at maximum capacity...and they have no where else to go...because of the low rise suburban sprawl (which enriched land owners and developers) we will never be able to afford to buy the land within the city required to provide a good public transport system.

Cork County Council (with it's own planning culture issues) has ensured the population growth occur in sprawling satellite towns like Ballincollig, Carrigaline, Blarney, Glanmire, etc it will be difficult to achieve the critical mass of people required to offer an efficient light rail network...meaning a heavily car dependent future for the sizeable population of those areas...

Galway is a planning basket case...it is difficult to see how they are going to achieve growth in the coming years...they cannot address the issues they have today!!

A city needs to provide access to Employment/Education/Amenities in a timely manner to every citizen, young old, rich or poor, with or without own transport, therefore population density is the goal, suburban sprawl is the enemy....

But, the Department of Environment, based in Dublin, holds the right to determine the fate of all our cities and towns...that is what we are up against...

That and Paddy's love of the three bed semi....

so far the only part of the 2040 plan that looks like it makes sense (in the context of Ireland 2040 aims/objectives) is the cork docklands project, which will likely get a huge chunk of the 2 billion urban fund. the whole idea is based on creating office space for 30k and residential for 20k, which will create destiny to support trams/ public transport. compare that to the limerick 2030 plan which ticks some boxes but completely misses the point in other areas. I think we have been let down by our city officials here and are losing out because of this.

also, on a smaller scale, see the Waterford north quays project which seems to tie in pretty well with Ireland 2040. its a much smaller scale than cork or even limericks plans, but is the only complete planning document available from any of the cities. puts the limerick 2030 planning to shame

Reputable Rog

Silentcorner wrote: »

What I meant was that Cork County Council have long been accused of planning irregularities and I pointed to the satellite towns as an example..

I know the city authority has its issues, but from a commuting point of view, those towns are, in my opinion, an excellent example on how wrong planning a city can be...the city/county divide merely exacerbates the problem...the Metropolitian Cork Area is meaningless really...

It's bit of a joke term alright. Kind of feeds into Cork's inflated sense of itself though.
Carrigaline should work better given its proximity to Ringaskiddy but still to this day you cannot get a bus from Carrigaline to Ringaskiddy.
Blarney, think of a large version of Castleconnell, the railway station will reopen there in the next few years and one would hope to see some modal shift there.
Ballincollig is very much a county town that it starting to work well, up until the mid noughties it was bit of a dump with a reputation to match but it has been transformed, there is still work to be done and I fear that the new City boundary may not result in the continuation of the good work down there by the County Council.
Glanmire, I won't even try and argue for.

Twoman Fullbackline

Silentcorner wrote: »

Galway is a planning basket case...it is difficult to see how they are going to achieve growth in the coming years...they cannot address the issues they have today!!

Galway is screwed because of its geography. The city is wedged between Lough Corrib and Galway Bay, which means it has to develop linearly along the coast. Allied to this, road/rail connections to most of the other major urban centres on the island all lead east in the same direction out of the city, which exacerbates the issue.

By contrast, Limerick's location is its strong point. Major traffic from the other four cities in the state all come from different directions. Rail lines already exist in multiple directions out of the city. From a transport infrastructure point of view it has a big advantage in this regard.

J Mysterio

I still think Limerick could do with a Luas.

UL/ National Technology Park -> Castletroy -> City -> Dooradoyle/ Crescent -> University Hospital

Silentcorner

J Mysterio wrote: »

I still think Limerick could do with a Luas.

UL/ National Technology Park -> Castletroy -> City -> Dooradoyle/ Crescent -> University Hospital

If you allow the Horizon Parkway site to be build as a huge shopping mall, that line would link up three massive shopping areas, Parkway - City Centre - The Crescent....

Limerick at that point could become a shopping destination for people across the state, as an alternative to people travelling to Dublin to face huge traffic congestion....

Shn99

Silentcorner wrote: »

If you allow the Horizon Parkway site to be build as a huge shopping mall, that line would link up three massive shopping areas, Parkway - City Centre - The Crescent....

Limerick at that point could become a shopping destination for people across the state, as an alternative to people travelling to Dublin to face huge traffic congestion....

Whats the latest on the Horizon site do you know?

johnnyryan89

J Mysterio wrote: »

I still think Limerick could do with a Luas.

UL/ National Technology Park -> Castletroy -> City -> Dooradoyle/ Crescent -> University Hospital

Would something like that not have to go from Castletroy straight to Dooradoyle before entering the city from Dooradoyle. It would never fit in the Ballysimmon road once you pass the Tipperary roundabout or the Dublin road once you pass the Parkway roundabout I'd say.

Reputable Rog

Shn99 wrote: »

Whats the latest on the Horizon site do you know?

Going to be used in the filming of Gomorrah Season 4.

zulutango

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

Would something like that not have to go from Castletroy straight to Dooradoyle before entering the city from Dooradoyle. It would never fit in the Ballysimmon road once you pass the Tipperary roundabout or the Dublin road once you pass the Parkway roundabout I'd say.

Just give it priority of road space over cars and it will fit.

johnnyryan89

zulutango wrote: »

Just give it priority of road space over cars and it will fit.

So basically turn the Dublin road and Ballysimmon roads into one way roads, also gotta remember from the Tipperary roundabout up to the fairgreen petrol station you've got houses on either side of the road and the train tracks running above the road near the roundabout. I'm not sure how wide the luas would be but would they need to widen that.

Dublin road also has houses and businesses either side of the road and tracks running above the road.

mdmix

limerick has the population to support light rail but not the density. if there was light rail running from raheen to ul via the city centre it would be a point to point connection and not a loop like the busses do. that being the case, most people in castletroy and raheen would live too far away from the stops so would still opt to drive.

there are plenty of places to fit the light rail, but unless we start building apartments, which limerick council are totally against, then not only will we not get light rail, we will miss our population targets and lose on on additional services to cork and galway

mdmix

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

So basically turn the Dublin road and Ballysimmon roads into one way roads, also gotta remember from the Tipperary roundabout up to the fairgreen petrol station you've got houses on either side of the road and the train tracks running above the road near the roundabout. I'm not sure how wide the luas would be but would they need to widen that.

Dublin road also has houses and businesses either side of the road and tracks running above the road.

as we are potentially getting BRT, this problem will need to be solved anyway. usually roundabouts are solved with smart lights that stop traffic in advance to allow the bus through. I saw a council document a while back which said Childers road could be widened to accommodate an extra lane. the Dublin rd could as well possibly

dashoonage

jesus lads wtf....i was taking the piss about the monorail....