Limerick improvement projects

keane2097

Limerick City isn't all that wet relative to the whole country.

http://www.met.ie/climate/rainfall.asp

John_Mc

Suppose I'm coming from the perspective of Dublin as I lived there for 10 years.

zulutango

Limerick isn't too wet really. As with Panda, cycling is my principal mode of transport around the city and I rarely have to don the waterproofs. I rarely have to go very far though. For me, the bigger issue is safety. I'd like to see far better cycling infrastructure in place. I also think that the poor public transport infrastructure limits the ability of Bus Eireann to provide a good service. Realistically, a bus should be able to get from Corbally to Raheen in 15 - 20 minutes at peak times and it should always be on time. That won't happen unless we spend money on bus corridors though.

Insect Overlord

William Street is awful for cycling. People use the right-hand lane for parking/deliveries, pedestrians stroll around as if they actually want someone to hit them, taxis merge into traffic without looking, and there's often double-parking on the left near the top of the street. I do miss cycling to work though, from a fitness point of view.

dellas1979

Vanquished wrote: »

The O'Connell Street situation is an absolute joke at this point. The street is in a disastrous condition. Miserable broken pavements with noisy, dirty traffic constantly trundling up it. It projects a really negative image of the city. It should be obvious to everyone that it needs high quality paving and lighting, plenty of trees and some decent street furniture. To my mind we also need a pedestrianised core. The two blocks from William Street to Roches Street would seem like the most logical location for this. The arguments are predictable and we've heard them all before. But at the end of the day, the street is primarily being used as a through route from the likes of Corbally to Dooradoyle etc. Traffic brings no vibrancy whatsoever to O'Connell Street. The current arrangement has existed for decades and the street has experienced a massive period of regression and stagnation. It is still hugely underperforming. Nobody can argue that the street is operating successfully and I can't understand how advocating the maintenance of the status quo is going to revive its fortunes.

The Council has a golden opportunity to radically change the city centre. Remove the one-way system on Henry Street for example and re-route as much traffic as possible from O'Connell Street. But as usual it looks like they're going to bottle it. I think the unfortunate reality is that more people are far more bothered about getting around the city centre in their car than revitalising O'Connell Street.

Agree. I was in there today, and oh jesus, I actually cringed with how bad it is. Dirty. Old. Broken. The Limerick suburbs have come such a long way...why arent they doing something for the city center, focussing on patrick St/O Connell st.

Why do we (in Ireland) have such dirty filthy and broken pavements and roads? And no up keep of anything.

Ive written to the council myself to ask why, in the name of their (council) privileged holes, arent they doing something for O Connell St. Its smelly looking old disgrace.

Edit: Just emailed the council again there. Maybe something needs to be done at this stage...a petition or a rally. Was really taken aback by the state of it!

air

Free parking and illegal parking at weekends is another big issue for the city centre. People seem to abandon their cars there all day and as a result it's very difficult to get on street parking at all for anyone wishing to do a bit of business.

tototoe

o'connell street is the biggest issue with the city centre..fix that and the rest will follow. It really is miserable and how the council have left it decay to that extent is astonishing..and then they wonder why people don't use the city centre. The paths are a disgrace, litter everywhere, it just looks filthy. What LCC are up to is anyone's guess.

The businesses have a responsibility here too though and very few of them put any great effort into their shop fronts or outside them.

Penny's must be one of the busiest shops around and it's a dump. Similarly Debenhams though not as busy. Brown Thomas do make an effort but very few others do imo.

Cookiemunster

dellas1979 wrote: »

Agree. I was in there today, and oh jesus, I actually cringed with how bad it is. Dirty. Old. Broken. The Limerick suburbs have come such a long way...why arent they doing something for the city center, focussing on patrick St/O Connell st.

Why do we (in Ireland) have such dirty filthy and broken pavements and roads? And no up keep of anything.

Ive written to the council myself to ask why, in the name of their (council) privileged holes, arent they doing something for O Connell St. Its smelly looking old disgrace.

Edit: Just emailed the council again there. Maybe something needs to be done at this stage...a petition or a rally. Was really taken aback by the state of it!

Have the remodeling plans passed you by completely? I know it's going at a snails pace and some people aren't happy with the proposals, but it's not like they're completely ignoring O'Connell St.

tototoe

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Have the remodeling plans passed you by completely? I know it's going at a snails pace and some people aren't happy with the proposals, but it's not like they're completely ignoring O'Connell St.

The big problem with that is when...they have been talking about it for decades at this stage. Meanwhile the main city street is like a bomb site.

Cookiemunster

tototoe wrote: »

The big problem with that is when...they have been talking about it for decades at this stage. Meanwhile the main city street is like a bomb site.

No they've been talking about this exact plan since they got they got €4.1m of EU funding in early 2016. There was weeks of roadworks last summer for site investigations along the street. There's been public consultations and the drawings of the preferred option has been released.

It isn't being ignored as is being suggested, but it is taking way longer than necessary.

tototoe

Cookiemunster wrote: »

No they've been talking about this exact plan since they got they got €4.1m of EU funding in early 2016. There was weeks of roadworks last summer for site investigations along the street. There's been public consultations and the drawings of the preferred option has been released.

It isn't being ignored as is being suggested, but it is taking way longer than necessary.

Is there a start date? They've been talking about O'Connell Street for donkeys years. 2 years since they got funding and still talking. It's shocking imo and doing noone in the city any favours. There really is no excuse for it.

Vanquished

The crazy thing is that they have been promising to rejuvenate O'Connell Street for almost 30 years. There is a newspaper article from the summer of 1990 where the then City Architect discusses upcoming developments in Limerick. Below is a direct quote:

Pedestrianisation at O'Connell Street is also close at hand. It involves two blocks, the one the George Hotel is on and the block below. The implications for city traffic have already been closely examined. The motivation for the move was O'Connell Street's lack of a focal point. 'You sort of drift into it from the Patrick Street end and you're never aware of the centre. You don't meet any focal point until you reach the Daniel O'Connell monument.'

Sound familiar?

Another plan was unveiled in 2000/01 and a further revised proposal then in 2007. Formulating plans isn't the issue. It's the fine tuning and implementation where it all falls down. We are really really poor at managing infrastructural and urban planning projects like this in Ireland. The levels of bureaucracy and over-elaboration are infuriating. Yet again with this latest LUCROC plan, we are seeing that the timeline is straying badly off course.

zulutango

The Council made the mistake of seeing this as a road infrastructure plan rather than an urban design one. So, they put road engineers on the job and came up with a plan that was incredible only for its mediocrity and lack of ambition. They saw the first problem as one of minimising the impact on traffic and that killed any half decent aspirations that the project might have had. Another ridiculous restriction was the insistence that the St. Patrick's Day parade needed to be able to go down it for a few hours in the year, as if this was critical to the future prosperity of the city.

dominatinMC

Folks, not being in any way facetious here, but it always amazes me to see so many well-reasoned and sensible ideas being put forward on this thread. It beggars belief as to why the powers that be (i.e. the council) cannot adopt the same reasoning, and be a little more progressive and forward-thinking with their plans. Is it simply stubbornness, and an unwillingness to adapt? Or maybe, it is simply the wrong people in the job. Or, perhaps, it is something more sinister and Machiavellian, and that there is money involved to keep the status quo! I don't know enough to pass judgement, but I do know that, based on the suggestions I read here, I would much prefer for some of the posters on here to be in the council decision-making roles! :pac:

panda100

For anyone interested in improving cycling infrastructure in our city, Limerick Cycling Campaign are holding a public meeting on Tuesday 24th April, 7.30pm at Ormston House. All are welcome to come along and have their say on improving cycling infrastructure and normalising cycling as an integral part of the transport system in the city.

Glenomra

For anyone interested in the future of limerick retail, please look at what's happening in Patrick street in Cork where recent 'improvements'have decimated many businesses. Meanwhile, clare council are planning to build another competing town on the perimeter of the city. The limerick authorities must oppose this mad proposal or it will be another body blow to limerick. Another doughnut.

zulutango

Glenomra wrote: »

For anyone interested in the future of limerick retail, please look at what's happening in Patrick street in Cork where recent 'improvements' have decimated many businesses.

Is there any solid evidence for this? The changes may impact on some businesses while greatly improving the fortunes of others. Those that are impacted will make the most noise of course.

Glenomra

There is a thread on the subject elsewhere on the site. Ghost town etc. Reporting 40% fall in footfall, 60 % fall in turnover at certain times. Whilst I cannot vouch for the figures some of the stories relating to store closures etc are graphic.

zulutango

If you can send on the link I'd appreciate it. Cork's experience is important to understand and learn from.

A question for Limerick (and for the retail organisations) is are shop closures, reduced revenues in the short term justifiable in order to achieve greater economic activity in the centre in the future?

Treepole

Glenomra wrote: »

There is a thread on the subject elsewhere on the site. Ghost town etc. Reporting 40% fall in footfall, 60 % fall in turnover at certain times. Whilst I cannot vouch for the figures some of the stories relating to store closures etc are graphic.

What's the actual reason for it?
No one was going into Cork City to park on Patrick's St? Has it made other routes more congested?

johnnyryan89

Glenomra wrote: »

The limerick authorities must oppose this mad proposal or it will be another body blow to limerick. Another doughnut.

Or maybe they should pull the finger out and make sure the city centre isn't left behind instead of complaining.

Glenomra

Apologies, it's on politics.ie not this site and I am very computer illiterate. I will try for a link but maybe someone more able than me will oblige.

Glenomra

http://www.politics.ie/forum/economy/263244-ghost-town-2nd-city-main-street-daily-closure-40-decline-footfall-60-slump.html

Eureka, I think I managed it. Time for a celebratory coffee

Vanquished

Glenomra wrote: »

http://www.politics.ie/forum/economy/263244-ghost-town-2nd-city-main-street-daily-closure-40-decline-footfall-60-slump.html

Eureka, I think I managed it. Time for a celebratory coffee

Plenty of hysteria and sensationalism there with little in the way of solid figures. A few usual suspects in there too. That fish monger who met Queen Elizabeth back in 2011 never turns down a media opportunity. He loves a good whinge! The restriction has only been in place for 3 weeks yet apparently the city centre is already on the brink of collapse. I think they need to ask Bernie from Rochestown how she feels about it again. She was awfully put out about the whole thing last week in 'de paper'.

John_Mc

Vanquished wrote: »

Plenty of hysteria and sensationalism there with little in the way of solid figures. A few usual suspects in there too. That fish monger who met Queen Elizabeth back in 2011 never turns down a media opportunity. He loves a good whinge! The restriction has only been in place for 3 weeks yet apparently the city centre is already on the brink of collapse. I think they need to ask Bernie from Rochestown how she feels about it again. She was awfully put out about the whole thing last week in 'de paper'.

Why would they lie? If the changes had a positive impact on their business then they would be praising it and want it to be kept in place.

zulutango

John_Mc wrote: »

Why would they lie? If the changes had a positive impact on their business then they would be praising it and want it to be kept in place.

It'll need time for the changes to have their positive effect, possibly even a few years. And even at that, if your business depends on cars parking outside the door it's probably doomed.

John_Mc

zulutango wrote: »

It'll need time for the changes to have their positive effect, possibly even a few years. And even at that, if your business depends on cars parking outside the door it's probably doomed.

That's not really good enough for businesses and they're employees is it? You can't expect them to wait "a few years" if ever for footfall to return to what it was before a council policy is introduced.

tototoe

There's been little to no parking on that street for years. Think the reaction in cork is overblown ATM. I'd give it the 3 months and see where it is. A week or two of data means feck all particularly when you take into account t early Easter this year and the trade that brings. I know a couple of businesses I deal with in cork are saying similar..it's way too early for people to be claiming 40% drops yet.

zulutango

What if the Council policy serves a greater good? Are some businesses expendable? Or should a Council pander to the needs of existing business at the expense of the long term prosperity of the city?

Vanquished

tototoe wrote: »

There's been little to no parking on that street for years. Think the reaction in cork is overblown ATM. I'd give it the 3 months and see where it is. A week or two of data means feck all particularly when you take into account t early Easter this year and the trade that brings. I know a couple of businesses I deal with in cork are saying similar..it's way too early for people to be claiming 40% drops yet.

Indeed. There are very little parking spaces to be had since the street was redesigned in 2004. Much like in Limerick, St. Patrick's Street is primarily used as a traffic corridor through the centre of the city serving destinations in outlying areas. All access routes serving multi storeys and other car parking facilities remain open so I fail to see how a 3 hour daily restriction is leading to armageddon.

Initiatives such as this are always going to be met with significant levels of hostility. We don't have a culture of adapting our urban centres to give greater priority to people. Any attempts at limiting traffic levels on city streets is seen as a hugely regressive measure. Little wonder then that our city centres public realm and general appearence are so clearly inferior in comparison to most of Europe.