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Limerick improvement projects
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found an article for 2015 - https://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/revealed-the-irish-counties-most-and-least-visited-by-overseas-tourists-35117642.html
so can compare to 2017 figures - https://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/revealed-the-irish-counties-most-and-least-visited-by-tourists-37236244.html
Visitor numbers:
Dublin + 20%
Galway + 24%
Cork + 10%
Clare + 25%
Limerick + 20%
Mayo + 7%
Kilkenny + 17
Im not doing the entire list but its not good news all around, spare a thought for Donegal & Waterford who are down.
Unfortunatly domestic figures were not included from 2015, also i cant seem to access CSO website so cant find these.0 -
Silentcorner wrote: »Jesus, our reputation may be costing us up to €200 million a year in lost tourism revenue....thats €4 million a week, remember if it wasn't for Munster Rugby we'd be in the bottom 5/6....we can thank in large part, RTE, Irish media, and local media for much of that!
I dont think its our reputation, i think it comes down to the look of the city. Limerick is one of the most beautiful cities in the world from certain angles but you cannot walk 100 meters without coming across some form of dereliction, often on a large scale. 2 of the best assets the city has (king johns castle & the milk market) are surrounded by empty run down empty buildings. These problems need to be addressed before we can hope to have domestic and international figures like our immediate neighbours, i dont even think a massive spend is necissary. Cleanup of these areas is not mentioned on the draft Limerick tourism strategy, even though the document shows a picture of a derelict building! Unfortunately this document is simply an overambitious fluff piece full of buzz words. Its available below if your interested
https://www.limerick.ie/sites/default/files/media/documents/2018-03/Limerick%20Tourism%20Development%20and%20Marketing%20Strategy_DRAFT.pdf0 -
I dont think its our reputation, i think it comes down to the look of the city. Limerick is one of the most beautiful cities in the world from certain angles but you cannot walk 100 meters without coming across some form of dereliction, often on a large scale. 2 of the best assets the city has (king johns castle & the milk market) are surrounded by empty run down empty buildings. These problems need to be addressed before we can hope to have domestic and international figures like our immediate neighbours, i dont even think a massive spend is necissary. Cleanup of these areas is not mentioned on the draft Limerick tourism strategy, even though the document shows a picture of a derelict building! Unfortunately this document is simply an overambitious fluff piece full of buzz words. Its available below if your interested
https://www.limerick.ie/sites/default/files/media/documents/2018-03/Limerick%20Tourism%20Development%20and%20Marketing%20Strategy_DRAFT.pdf
Well, I respectfully disagree.
Of course the city centre has issues, which have all been discussed over and over and over again on this forum, no one in this city believes we live in an urban utopia, we are probably more in tune with our issues than most other Irish cities.
But talk to anyone in the hospitality industry and they will tell you, we still get tourists into this city who have been advised by Irish people to stay away from here, I recently met two Germans myself recently who mentioned it to me, how many tourists have opted not to risk it?
In the last few years our domestic visitor has been improving but from a very very low base, and interestingly, we get waaay more hen parties than we do stag parties.
Now do you think all those Irish people who have being advising tourists not to come here, have actually come here themselves? Most will have seen Limerick through media. The persistent cycle of negative narratives takes a massive toll on a citys reputation, any city with that kind of media exposure would suffer to attract visitors.
For a city fairly in tune with its issues, it always surprises me how we deny that our reputation is a problem...it has been an affliction.0 -
I remember hearing before that Limerick has the highest hotel occupancy rates in the country, but I don't know the veracity of that. The fact that many of the hotels are seeking to build extensions must be an indication of increased visitors. And it stands to reason that the city would be a major gateway. The marketing of the The Wild Atlantic Way has been far more successful than anticipated and is probably spilling over into the city. Plenty of people will stop over here en route to the south or west. I wonder how many of those who stay actually spend time in and around the city. It boggles the mind that there isn't a decent hostel in the city. There's a huge amount of couch surfers passing through so that would indicate a good market for one.
Id agree with that 100%. Recently looked up hotel rooms for a work night out in the city.little availability and what was available was v expensive.in the end booked a room in a student village near UL.
One way to boost domestic tourism is maybe try a get decent concerts into thomand park to attract people to stay overnight. Needs to be some sort of a visit limerick advert like what you see for belfast carrdiff etc.0 -
I remember hearing before that Limerick has the highest hotel occupancy rates in the country, but I don't know the veracity of that. The fact that many of the hotels are seeking to build extensions must be an indication of increased visitors. And it stands to reason that the city would be a major gateway. The marketing of the The Wild Atlantic Way has been far more successful than anticipated and is probably spilling over into the city. Plenty of people will stop over here en route to the south or west. I wonder how many of those who stay actually spend time in and around the city. It boggles the mind that there isn't a decent hostel in the city. There's a huge amount of couch surfers passing through so that would indicate a good market for one.
I think I read think I read the same, highest outside Dublin. It’s worth noting though that Limerick city is down 3 hotels from 10 years ago, the railway hotel, the clarion suites (or Ryan hotel if you prefer) and punches hotel (now student accommodation) so this may be why. Also, the 2 mile in (Clare) is no longer competing with limerick hotels. On the hostel front, Flan Costello is still planning the much anticipated Hostelloes. Also Limerick travel boutique hotel seem to be looking toward that end of the market0 -
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Silentcorner wrote: »Well, I respectfully disagree.
Of course the city centre has issues, which have all been discussed over and over and over again on this forum, no one in this city believes we live in an urban utopia, we are probably more in tune with our issues than most other Irish cities.
But talk to anyone in the hospitality industry and they will tell you, we still get tourists into this city who have been advised by Irish people to stay away from here, I recently met two Germans myself recently who mentioned it to me, how many tourists have opted not to risk it?
In the last few years our domestic visitor has been improving but from a very very low base, and interestingly, we get waaay more hen parties than we do stag parties.
Now do you think all those Irish people who have being advising tourists not to come here, have actually come here themselves? Most will have seen Limerick through media. The persistent cycle of negative narratives takes a massive toll on a citys reputation, any city with that kind of media exposure would suffer to attract visitors.
For a city fairly in tune with its issues, it always surprises me how we deny that our reputation is a problem...it has been an affliction.
The cities reputation is not deserved, but is reinforced by how it looks. Dereliction makes people feel uncomfortable and unsafe, this is commonly accepted. How can we change opinions when this is how the city presents itself?
I’ve met people around Ireland who, like you have said, we’re told not to visit Limerick, often by cork or Dublin people. While it definitely has an effect on tourism, I think the real issue is how tourist enjoy the city at the end of the day. Unfortunately, from my experience many people are turned off Limerick by the sight of it.
We get a lot of visitors to my company from USA, Britain and Europe who generally fly in, stay the night and work for a few days - sometimes alone or sometimes in groups. They all say the same thing, they arrive, drive around for a bit and decide to go back to the hotel. These types of visitor are bread and butter to Dublin and cork, they arrive, head out and enjoy themselves while they work and come back later that year for a family holiday or a trip with friends.
While on my travels, I’ve also met a lot of genuine tourists who visited Limerick, while noone had any particularily bad words to say of Limerick, I have never met someone with any fond memories. Limerick to most people is a quick stop on a larger trip, easily forgotten.
I think a lot could be done to improve the visitor experience ( as well as the experience of the people living here), but it would be all pointless if the city looks unsafe.0 -
The cities reputation is not deserved, but is reinforced by how it looks. Dereliction makes people feel uncomfortable and unsafe, this is commonly accepted. How can we change opinions when this is how the city presents itself?
I’ve met people around Ireland who, like you have said, we’re told not to visit Limerick, often by cork or Dublin people. While it definitely has an effect on tourism, I think the real issue is how tourist enjoy the city at the end of the day. Unfortunately, from my experience many people are turned off Limerick by the sight of it.
We get a lot of visitors to my company from USA, Britain and Europe who generally fly in, stay the night and work for a few days - sometimes alone or sometimes in groups. They all say the same thing, they arrive, drive around for a bit and decide to go back to the hotel. These types of visitor are bread and butter to Dublin and cork, they arrive, head out and enjoy themselves while they work and come back later that year for a family holiday or a trip with friends.
While on my travels, I’ve also met a lot of genuine tourists who visited Limerick, while noone had any particularily bad words to say of Limerick, I have never met someone with any fond memories. Limerick to most people is a quick stop on a larger trip, easily forgotten.
I think a lot could be done to improve the visitor experience ( as well as the experience of the people living here), but it would be all pointless if the city looks unsafe.
How it looks is one thing, I won't argue that the city centre needs to be improved...it would be great to have entertainment for people and tourists alike in the evening time, but that won't happen until such a time as we start embracing the city centre as a place to shop/live/work...instead of being afraid of it!
I don't work in the tourism industry but I do know a good few who do, and unlike you they suggest a different tourist experience to the one you are describing, but like you, I cannot back up that opinion. However, if you go to tripadvisor you'll see a handful of experiences like you describe but the vast majority are describing a much more enjoyable experience.
I don't think Limerick is for the masses, like Galway or Killarney, but it is a much more pleasant experience than you seem to think, and you are not on your own, this city is more popular with foreign tourists than it is with Irish people.
I know I am in the minority when I say this, but a city with an image problem that has hung over us for nearly 40 years, must also have a self image problem, it would be impossible to avoid that...our image problem goes much deeper than perceived crime...0 -
And, €4 million extra a week in the coffers of businesses would go a long way to sustaining more entertainment venues, more restaurants, more pub...more people....it's a catch 22!0
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Silentcorner wrote: »How it looks is one thing, I won't argue that the city centre needs to be improved...it would be great to have entertainment for people and tourists alike in the evening time, but that won't happen until such a time as we start embracing the city centre as a place to shop/live/work...instead of being afraid of it!
I don't work in the tourism industry but I do know a good few who do, and unlike you they suggest a different tourist experience to the one you are describing, but like you, I cannot back up that opinion. However, if you go to tripadvisor you'll see a handful of experiences like you describe but the vast majority are describing a much more enjoyable experience.
I don't think Limerick is for the masses, like Galway or Killarney, but it is a much more pleasant experience than you seem to think, and you are not on your own, this city is more popular with foreign tourists than it is with Irish people.
I know I am in the minority when I say this, but a city with an image problem that has hung over us for nearly 40 years, must also have a self image problem, it would be impossible to avoid that...our image problem goes much deeper than perceived crime...
The people who are afraid of town are at this stage a minority are unlikely to change, there are plenty of people who have embraced town. Have a look at rental cost in Limerick city, people would love to live in the city center, but there is a lack of available living space. The problem is accessibility, if people are forced to live outside town they will shop outside town also.
People will have different experiences and it’s all anecdotal, but I would argue due to a lack of a significant city population (for the size of the city) we have less restaurants, bars etc for tourists to enjoy, with far more vacant premises - adding to the neglected city loook.
I don’t see why Limerick wouldn’t be for the masses, if the place looked clean and presentable and if the local population weren’t so sparse then tourism would thrive.
Unfortunately Limerick council are to blame, they have gone to great lengths to prevent new housing in the city. They are running around pointing the finger at DUNNE’s for their vacant property while ignoring the multiple derilict properties under their control. They sanctioned the destruction of numerous historical buildings, including Cruised hotel (albeit this one was quite some time ago). They are dragging their feet on the O’Connell street upgrade. Look at the eye scream mural is, that was a kip for years until the civic trust did it up and then the council moved in a tore up the civic trust work. Worst off all the council ignore our local history in favor of cheap tourist trinkets. They installed a statue of Richard Harris from a film no Irish person saw to appeal to American tourists, they rushed to build another deplorable statue of a British broadcaster who although was born her had no other links to the city, and at one point they even tried to rename the Shannon bridge to the JFK bridge to appeal to tourists. Unfortunately, the tourism strategy I linked to will likely result in more cheap attempts to trick people into liking the place.
There is some simple things to be done to turn things around, make they city livable and watch vacant properties come back to life. Clean the streets and fix up derilict properties. Finally, we do need to embrace our local history and our culture and forget the cheap tricks.0 -
M&C Saatchi of London have been selected to design a new brand for Limerick.
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/0827/987796-mc-saatchi-to-create-brand-for-limerick/0 -
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Poxyshamrock wrote: »M&C Saatchi of London have been selected to design a new brand for Limerick.
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/0827/987796-mc-saatchi-to-create-brand-for-limerick/
Excellent news.0 -
Poxyshamrock wrote: »M&C Saatchi of London have been selected to design a new brand for Limerick.
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/0827/987796-mc-saatchi-to-create-brand-for-limerick/Unfortunately, the tourism strategy I linked to will likely result in more cheap attempts to trick people into liking the place.
Looks like you were completely wrong and underestimated the Council's spending power and commitment to PR/spin/marketing!0 -
I think its worth pointing out that in the week that limerick announced an expensive rebranding strategy, Waterford gets free press for their street art festival. stark contrast to limerick council who literally applauded when they cut the arts budget last year
http://www.thejournal.ie/waterford-walls-4198128-Aug2018/0 -
It'll be interesting to see what Saatchi come up with. How they will tackle and begin to unravel the deep rooted prejudice against Limerick will be interesting. Hopefully they get it right. The last thing we need is another lame attempt to sell the "Sporting City" or "River City" narratives. These are so so shallow and meaningless and ultimately have very limited worth as branding strategies.0
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It'll be interesting to see what Saatchi come up with. How they will tackle and begin to unravel the deep rooted prejudice against Limerick will be interesting. Hopefully they get it right. The last thing we need is another lame attempt to sell the "Sporting City" or "River City" narratives. These are so so shallow and meaningless and ultimately have very limited worth as branding strategies.
Kebabland... awaken your taste buds and have all your dreams come true.0 -
We laugh now ...0
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What is the current state of affairs with the undeveloped site adjoining the Park Canal on Pa Healy Rd? This really is another prime city center site that needs to be zoned for high density apartment & housing.0
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It'll be interesting to see what Saatchi come up with. How they will tackle and begin to unravel the deep rooted prejudice against Limerick will be interesting. Hopefully they get it right. The last thing we need is another lame attempt to sell the "Sporting City" or "River City" narratives. These are so so shallow and meaningless and ultimately have very limited worth as branding strategies.
they will likely come up with some meaningless phrases and audience test them, the journal just put up an article on the recent midlands "hidden heartlands" branding process
https://fora.ie/ireland-hidden-heartlands-name-4190984-Aug2018/0 -
It would be great to extend O'Brien Park into it. It could be an amazing amenity for the city given all the water courses, paths, etc in the vicinity.0
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"Lovely Limerick"
"Lady Limerick"
"Limerick them lads what won the hurling"0 -
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mastershake wrote: »What is the current state of affairs with the undeveloped site adjoining the Park Canal on Pa Healy Rd? This really is another prime city center site that needs to be zoned for high density apartment & housing.
Funzone or whatever that travelling fairground is called has been in there a couple of times recently. Are they renting it from the council?0 -
An advertising campaign, rebranding, etc is all well and good but it’s the end product that is actually important.
Young, Ambitious, Vibrant
Words mean nothing.
If the city carries on being in the same mess it was in ten years ago, no amount of sugar coating will make it a desirable place to invest, live, visit, etc.0 -
The people who are afraid of town are at this stage a minority are unlikely to change, there are plenty of people who have embraced town. Have a look at rental cost in Limerick city, people would love to live in the city center, but there is a lack of available living space. The problem is accessibility, if people are forced to live outside town they will shop outside town also.
People will have different experiences and it’s all anecdotal, but I would argue due to a lack of a significant city population (for the size of the city) we have less restaurants, bars etc for tourists to enjoy, with far more vacant premises - adding to the neglected city loook.
I don’t see why Limerick wouldn’t be for the masses, if the place looked clean and presentable and if the local population weren’t so sparse then tourism would thrive.
Unfortunately Limerick council are to blame, they have gone to great lengths to prevent new housing in the city. They are running around pointing the finger at DUNNE’s for their vacant property while ignoring the multiple derilict properties under their control. They sanctioned the destruction of numerous historical buildings, including Cruised hotel (albeit this one was quite some time ago). They are dragging their feet on the O’Connell street upgrade. Look at the eye scream mural is, that was a kip for years until the civic trust did it up and then the council moved in a tore up the civic trust work. Worst off all the council ignore our local history in favor of cheap tourist trinkets. They installed a statue of Richard Harris from a film no Irish person saw to appeal to American tourists, they rushed to build another deplorable statue of a British broadcaster who although was born her had no other links to the city, and at one point they even tried to rename the Shannon bridge to the JFK bridge to appeal to tourists. Unfortunately, the tourism strategy I linked to will likely result in more cheap attempts to trick people into liking the place.
There is some simple things to be done to turn things around, make they city livable and watch vacant properties come back to life. Clean the streets and fix up derilict properties. Finally, we do need to embrace our local history and our culture and forget the cheap tricks.
Whilst I agree with about 80% of your points, you cannot suggest that the city has an undeserved reputation, and simultaneously ignore the effect that reputation has on our ability to attract Irish visitors.
I don't believe Limerick is for the masses because of its gritty (not to be confused with derelict) city centre...we have excellent exhibition spaces and museums in the city centre, we should build on that reputation.
There is a very well established start up community, there are several established grass roots scenes in the city, it is actually a lot more vibrant than it looks! I'd love to see Cleeves Factory used to host the countries different more niche cultural endeavours.
I think it is very interesting to see how this agency will do justice to the city, for such a small city it is full of surprises, a long way from perfect...but it's never quite as it seems!0 -
Silentcorner wrote: »Whilst I agree with about 80% of your points, you cannot suggest that the city has an undeserved reputation, and simultaneously ignore the effect that reputation has on our ability to attract Irish visitors.
I don't believe Limerick is for the masses because of its gritty (not to be confused with derelict) city centre...we have excellent exhibition spaces and museums in the city centre, we should build on that reputation.
There is a very well established start up community, there are several established grass roots scenes in the city, it is actually a lot more vibrant than it looks! I'd love to see Cleeves Factory used to host the countries different more niche cultural endeavours.
I think it is very interesting to see how this agency will do justice to the city, for such a small city it is full of surprises, a long way from perfect...but it's never quite as it seems!
My point was that the majority of Limerick people have embraced the city, those who live near it at least. The point I was trying to make on other Irish visitors is the image the Limerick environment projects (empty, derilict, unsafe) matches the reputation of the city regardless of the actual crime rates. Irish people will come to limerick for buildings or leisure, if this is the impression they take home then is it a wonder the reputation still exists?
I think there is plenty to build on. It’s great to see the city busier, but in a national contest we’re only doing alrigh, far behind Dublin and cork, just a little ahead of Galway and Waterford in terms of new developments( although Waterford do have a very good development plan). IMO that’s down to Limerick councils overambitious grand plans that don’t link up while they ignore their basic responsibilities. We will see how the future goes, hopefully things improve, I really would like a livable city with nice ameanities0 -
Silentcorner wrote: »there are several established grass roots scenes in the city,
What are they?
I do think Limerick needs an image overhaul that needs to be lead by City Hall but getting this media company on board is a huge waste of money. Will be very interesting to see whether they engage with the local community or if it will be the typical Celia Holman Lee/Richard Lynch/Paul O'Connell PR guff for the city0 -
Poxyshamrock wrote: »An advertising campaign, rebranding, etc is all well and good but it’s the end product that is actually important.
Young, Ambitious, Vibrant
Words mean nothing.
If the city carries on being in the same mess it was in ten years ago, no amount of sugar coating will make it a desirable place to invest, live, visit, etc.
I tend to agree. However, looking at it from a slightly different perspective, maybe this "rebranding" exercise can act as a catalyst for change in the council. They are spending a lot of money on this, meaning there will (hopefully) be a lot of scrutiny (both from within Limerick and from further afield) on how the city is progressing and what the council is doing to strengthen the "brand" that is being developed. If the city is gaining a bit more exposure, nationally, that might put more pressure on the council when making decisions. That doesn't necessarily equate to them making the "right" decision either though I suppose :pac:0 -
What are they?
I do think Limerick needs an image overhaul that needs to be lead by City Hall but getting this media company on board is a huge waste of money. Will be very interesting to see whether they engage with the local community or if it will be the typical Celia Holman Lee/Richard Lynch/Paul O'Connell PR guff for the city
Why is it that whenever something is suggested or tried out in Limerick it is immediately shouted down as being a waste of time, money and effort? This is a major problem in Limerick, especially with the natives and one of the roots of the image problem. If we can't like ourselves how can others?
I think this is very positive and shows somebody in the council is willing to try something new and different. It has worked for others places so what exactly is the issue?0 -
I think people are concerned given the Council's track record, especially in the marketing and branding side of things. I'd keep an open mind on it though. I don't know how anyone can categorically say it's a good or bad decision without being privy to how the decision was made.0
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James Bond Junior wrote: »Why is it that whenever something is suggested or tried out in Limerick it is immediately shouted down as being a waste of time, money and effort? This is a major problem in Limerick, especially with the natives and one of the roots of the image problem. If we can't like ourselves how can others?
I think this is very positive and shows somebody in the council is willing to try something new and different. It has worked for others places so what exactly is the issue?
I absolutely don't think it's a waste of time or effort. Rebranding of our city desperately need to happen and led by Limerick council as I already stated. I think many Limerick people are cynical about these big PR announcements. We had something similar a few years back with the announcement of Limerick Marketing Company that faded into oblivion. I absolutely hope that M&C saatchi are the positive link that will help us to rebrand our city as the great place to work and live that it is. However, I think that Limerick citizens are absolutely right to scrutinise these decisions and make sure the council is accountable for spending our money in the best way possible for the benefit of the city and county. They havent shown this to date imo.0 -
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Interesting reading back on this that the focus on the tourist numbers is almost totally focused on the limitations of the city and not the limitations of the county. For a lot of the counties ahead of us in those figures, visitors are not flocking in droves to the county town. I have a hunch that Waterford is not beating us as a destination because they have tapped into a great public desire to visit Waterford City.
We are not blessed with beaches, laden with lakes or made for mountaineering. Scenery-wise, there is plenty of good stuff ringed around, but for a domestic market in particular it is probably a harder sell to associate any of that with Limerick, and I think county rivalries play a big part in this. Just as an example, the Galtee Mountains jut into a corner of the county, but there is a stronger association claimed by our neighbours in Tipp. The Ballyhoura Country is a relative good news story for Limerick, with the walking festival and the bike trails, but I wonder is there more that they can do to lay a stronger claim as base for the Galtees also? Killaloe and the Lough Derg region has various water, adventure and walking facilities, all only 30 minutes away from the city.
For the city itself, for me it's a no-brainer: History. A rich history will feature on any list of reasons visitors come to our shores. We have the picture-perfect postcard advertisement for this in King John's Castle. The King's Island/Nicholas St area has improved greatly in the last five years or so. Is there something we can do to augment this and bring the broader history of Ireland to visitors and not just the history of Limerick?
One small thing that suprises me sometimes is that the very name of Limerick is well known around the world for its connection to the humorous verse, but there is, as far as I can see, no real attempt to exploit this. I know there has been a Limerick Literary Festival over the last few years which I think is very much tied to Kate O'Brien. There's a trick missing here somewhere.0
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