Limerick improvement projects

Mc Love

zulutango wrote: »

Of course you can develop what's not Georgian!

Putting a 15 storey tower on its own is another matter. Look how hideous the Clayton Hotel is, for example. Possibly one of Limerick's worst eyesores. Far worse than Sarsfield House.

Really? I dont think its as bad as Sarsfield House, I actually like it, even though some call it the dick on the dock.

kilburn wrote: »

You lose all credibility with stuff like this possibly the best news story for the city in years and thats how you great it.

Sorry to be following you around, but we cant all live in cloud cuckoo land, he's just saying what could happen! I'm sure An Taisce will probably object.

geotrig

zulutango wrote: »

Of course you can develop what's not Georgian!

Putting a 15 storey tower on its own is another matter. Look how hideous the Clayton Hotel is, for example. Possibly one of Limerick's worst eyesores. Far worse than Sarsfield House.

But you wanted all high rise development down the docks last week
and i think outside of 1-2 issues it sits nicely on its site for what it is.
I could pick out 10+ other buildings around the city that are worse than those.

They are high rise ,they are supposed to tower over everything !

Cookiemunster

zulutango wrote: »

There's no goal post moving. You can't pretend that St. Mary's Cathedral isn't in the immediate vicinity. ABP don't just make their rulings on proximity to Georgian buildings alone, in case you didn't know.

Your initial argument on this was that it shouldn't be above the height of the Georgian buildings on Rutland St. Now you're saying it shouldn't be built because of a church a few hundred meters away on the far bank of the river. As I said, goal post moving.

keane2097

I think it's great news anyway.

Dying to hear what the impending developments w.r.t Debenhams, Pennys and Arthurs Quay also!

Cookiemunster

Mc Love wrote: »

I'm sure An Taisce will probably object.

They're guaranteed to appeal. Luckily though they're generally ignored by ABP.

kilburn

Mc Love wrote:

Sorry to be following you around, but we cant all live in cloud cuckoo land, he's just saying what could happen! I'm sure An Taisce will probably object.

Maybe if Zulu started with thats great but....

I dont live in cloud cuckoo land by the way....

Chavways

Glenomra wrote: »

imagine you are driving from UL's back gate towards Clare. It's the land on your left-hand side extending across the link road leading towards the small bridges.

The land that floods every year without fail!

zulutango

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Your initial argument on this was that it shouldn't be above the height of the Georgian buildings on Rutland St. Now you're saying it shouldn't be built because of a church a few hundred meters away on the far bank of the river. As I said, goal post moving.

That's not true. I always mentioned St. Mary's Cathedral. You're being very disingenuous.

zulutango

geotrig wrote: »

But you wanted all high rise development down the docks last week

Towards the docks is the most appropriate place for tall buildings because there are two already there, and a third with planning. None of them are going to win architectural awards so the only thing to do is cluster a few together and hope that a few better ones improve the situation. The Clarion / Clayton is particularly ugly, with hardly any architectural merit, plonked half way into the river.

Cookiemunster

zulutango wrote: »

That's not true. I always mentioned St. Mary's Cathedral. You're being very disingenuous.

No, you first said no building should be above the height of the Georgian building. When it was pointed out that this occurs in multiple sites around the city you then brought St. Mary Catehdral and the castle into the conversation.

The Cathedral is 200m from the site of the tower with a river and open space on both banks between the two. The castle is 400m away. A 50-60m tower that far away won't take away from either building.

geotrig

zulutango wrote: »

Towards the docks is the most appropriate place for tall buildings because there are two already there, and a third with planning. None of them are going to win architectural awards so the only thing to do is cluster a few together and hope that a few better ones improve the situation. The Clarion / Clayton is particularly ugly, with hardly any architectural merit, plonked half way into the river.

I dont think clumping them all together does anything for the city ,only adding a odd looking highrise zone out of the centre.

I do agree none have any architectural merit but at least they weren't totally devoid of any thought been put into their design either.

zulutango

Cookiemunster wrote: »

No, you first said no building should be above the height of the Georgian building. When it was pointed out that this occurs in multiple sites around the city you then brought St. Mary Catehdral and the castle into the conversation.

The Cathedral is 200m from the site of the tower with a river and open space on both banks between the two. The castle is 400m away. A 50-60m tower that far away won't take away from either building.

Rubbish. You're either being very disingenuous or you are not reading my posts properly. I do not hold the view that no building should be above the height of the Georgian building. I was asked what height I thought was appropriate for the site at Bank Place and I said the Georgian parapet line, but I am not absolute and never was absolute about it. I referenced St. Mary's Cathedral and the setting, which is the principle point that ABP will make its judgement on, from the very start.

Cookiemunster

As i said, luckily ABP are throwing out the majority of ridiculous objections from ABP.

zulutango

Cookiemunster wrote: »

As i said, luckily ABP are throwing out the majority of ridiculous objections from ABP.

This makes no sense.

Tefral

zulutango wrote: »

This makes no sense.

I think he meant An Taisce...

kilburn

Can we stop having the same argument every week in this thread my god its a good news story and the Limerick forum has descended to An Taisce vs everyone else again.

Glenomra

I did a simple search on google News for the terms Galway and Limerick. Everyone accepts that Galway is flying but what is fascinating is the number of significant projects proposed\pending for Limerick City. The overall trend certainly appears promising.

yop

mod note. More bans handed out.
This thread is turning into a boiling pot resulting in reported posts and bans. Either revert to proper civil discussion or it will be closed. It's your choice.

Cookiemunster

Tefral wrote: »

I think he meant An Taisce...

Indeed, I was typing on the run.

Tefral

I work in Construction, I would be an ardent supporter of preserving the Georgian look of Limerick. I love visiting old cities and the architecture interests me - gives a place character. Like the buildings in Amsterdam and Bruge. I even like the likes of Hamburg and its mixture of really new buildings and some of the small number of buildings that survived the war. It tells a story.

The problem we have here is the buildings were left to rot and bad planning has made them extremely difficult to bring back to their former glory. I have priced the refurbishment of some of these buildings. I am involved in the fit out of Maggie Choos and Opium, I was in 101 also. The costs of keeping these buildings going is not tens of thousands. Its hundred of thousands. Q-Con are doing one up on at the moment and its well over a million.

People don't have this kind of money here. Businesses don't either and banks loathe to lend to this kind of work. There's a reason why a lot of these buildings are decaying and its lack of will due to lack of money. My dream house would be a fully refurbished Georgian building in O'Connell Street, but to bring them to current regs so that they are cost effective to live in after the capital investment is prohibitively expensive. If the council really want to incentivise their refurbishment they need to become the bank and give a really low rate to the owners and they probably need to give them huge grants also - and you cant just hand out money to private individuals.


Given the above and the strict Building Control Act you need to have balance. There's a place for the new too in cities and i think the opera development is a very welcome development indeed.

geotrig

perfectly said !

nim1bdeh38l2cw

zulutango wrote: »

Of course you can develop what's not Georgian!

Putting a 15 storey tower on its own is another matter. Look how hideous the Clayton Hotel is, for example. Possibly one of Limerick's worst eyesores. Far worse than Sarsfield House.

It's beautiful.

zulutango

Tefral wrote: »

Given the above and the strict Building Control Act you need to have balance. There's a place for the new too in cities and i think the opera development is a very welcome development indeed.

Agree with all this. Thankfully, none of the Georgian buildings in the current Opera proposals are to be knocked. This is in stark contrast to previous proposals, but thanks to the hard work of many people and organisations Limerick 2030 are protecting these buildings.

Glenomra

yop wrote: »

mod note. More bans handed out.
This thread is turning into a boiling pot resulting in reported posts and bans. Either revert to proper civil discussion or it will be closed. It's your choice.

They are all genuinely interested in Limerick, despite different perspectives, so maybe with the Christmas Spirit you could forgive them ...again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

keane2097

I really think we should be able to have a discussion about competing visions for the improvement of the city without people constantly whinging and reporting each others' posts.

Cookiemunster

zulutango wrote: »

Agree with all this. Thankfully, none of the Georgian buildings in the current Opera proposals are to be knocked. This is in stark contrast to previous proposals, but thanks to the hard work of many people and organisations Limerick 2030 are protecting these buildings.

They're not being knocked, but what will be original other than the facades?

madbeanman

Maybe someone not from Limerick will help.

I lived in Limerick for a cumulative total of 6 years up until very recently. It is one of my least favourite places that I have ever visited.

But I think the current Limerick narrative of big development projects and a sense of ambition on the side of planners is a really positive one that should be welcomed.

I think that Limerick is a city of immense potential (given its relative affordability in contrast to Dublin) and the story that UL will move some stuff into the city centre is great news at a time when suburbs are tearing apart town centres. Moreover, I am happy to see some good news for that dreadful eye sore near Parkway. I know its not in the city centre but it really does need something done with it, Yikes.
UL is easily the most beautiful campus in Ireland and the land that it has available would make a great little university town.

Limerick has so much going for it and I wish it the best.

zulutango

madbeanman wrote: »

Maybe someone not from Limerick will help.

What kind of help are you looking for? I am from Limerick so I guess that excludes me.

MarkR

Everyone, I would really appreciate it if everyone could get back to their corners. This is a thread for discussing Limerick Improvement Projects. Not to snipe at people whose opinions differ from yours. You wouldn't do it in person, so please don't do it here.

Vanquished

kilburn wrote: »

You lose all credibility with stuff like this possibly the best news story for the city in years and thats how you greet it.

Cant spell

In all fairness that is an embarrassing statement. No critical analysis whatsoever. Have you any idea of the damage that has been done or was about to be done to the city in the past with that level of happyclapping?!

The "opera" site badly needs to be rejuvenated but not at all costs. It needs to be designed and built to an extremely high standard. The city should accept nothing less. The details I've seen so far along with the PR I heard from the consultants at the presentation event have not inspired confidence.

Take a look at the attached CGI from the planning application they made a balls of in 2017. What are your thoughts on the height, bulk, quality of materials, design and it's impact on that vista and immediate surroundings?