Inconsiderate landlord taking advantage?

The_Conductor

Pkiernan wrote: »

Report this criminal Garda directly to the Revenue. Please.

In a heartbeat.
Report anyone deliberately evading tax to the Revenue Commissioners.
That he is a Garda is particularly galling, given his oath to uphold the law, however any and all tax evaders should be reported to Revenue. Revenue has a Division dealing with professions which they colloquially term 'cash in hand professions' which has a specific section dealing with landlords. Report him- he will get his just desserts........

conorhal

smccarrick wrote: »

A deposit can't be used for normal wear and tear of furniture or fixtures/fittings (or appliances etc). It can be used for abnormal wear and tear, damage above what might be expected, unpaid utility bills, cleaning (if the property is left in a worse state than it was let in) etc.

An inventory of contents, alongside photographs of the property, notes on when all items were purchased etc- would be kept by most landlords. If you leave the place like a pig sty they most certainly will deduct from the deposit for cleaning. Feel free to dispute it by all means (its very easy to start a PRTB case)- good luck though if the landlord has good records and can show cause for purloining the deposit.

It can't be used to rectify normal wear and tear, but I'd have no problem witholding a deposit until the property was cleaned to a satisfactory state.

I helped my folks repaint the apartment they own over the summer, and I was disgusted (but not unsurprised) at the state of the place, in inch of burnt on grease in an oven that looked like it hadn't been cleaned in about 5 years, dirty carpets, cobwebs that made a ghost train ride look pristine in comparision, drawers and cupbords with grease and food stains spilled all over them and an attic full of broken junk.
I must have gone through 3 litre bottles of bleach cleaning the kitchen.

There are a lot of tennents out there that seem to think you're their mammy and that it's perfectly acceptable to leave a mess like that behind. I was furious with my dad, who is such a soft touch and hates confontation, and told him that he should never have returned a deposit to those people until they had left the apartment in the state of cleanliness that it had been in when they were handed the keys.

I also had him add a clause to the lease for the next tenents that required them to steam clean the carpets if they were there for more then a year. Some people might claim that's wear and tear but the landlord didn't walk that muck into the carpet or spill those beers. My policy would be, if it's your mess, you clean it up.

As for the OP's landlords 'tax exempt status'. Shop him by claiming the rent relief as other have said, revenue will soon catch up with him.

groovyg

Caroline_ie wrote: »

The landlord of the place I am moving from is being a condescending ass. I went back tonight to get my deposit back and he said the flat wasn't clean enough.

\rant

How come you didn't use your last months rent to cover your deposit? After 3 years living in a place your flat is not going to be exactly like the first day you moved in. How much rent was he charging you? I really think you should report him to the revenue - at least give them the name and address of where you were renting and they might look in to it.

BostonB

groovyg wrote: »

How come you didn't use your last months rent to cover your deposit? ...

Technically that's withholding rent which is illegal. Which suggests if there are any breakages or repairs or cleaning, above normal wear and tear you're going to stiff the LL of whatever that costs.

odds_on

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Report him for evading tax first and foremost.

And after three years living in the house, it's up to him to repair and maintain the interior of the property to the standard it was in at the start of the tenancy so that would include painting the walls every couple of years and it's most certainly not the op's responsibility to repair or maintain a carpet due to wear and tear

How many house owners paint the interior of their properties every couple of years. Certainly my parents did not paint even every five years. I certainly don't paint every five years, let alone every couple of years. I and my family have respect for my property, even with children in the house it is not necessary to do so. It seems that only landlords have to repaint the interiors every couple of years.

Dirt is dirt and is not normal wear and tear - if it can be cleaned, it is not normal wear and tear.

RATM

OP you don't necessarily need his PPS number to claim rent relief- Revenue can find this info out themselves using land registry records. All they need is his full name and the address of the property. Hs surname should be on the lease- send in a photocopy of this to back up your claim.

You are due a back payment from Revenue of 9% of the €20,000 rent paid to date- around €1,800. Revenue will send you a cheque for this amount or you can get it paid directly into your bank account.

As others have said I would be showing up with that rent relief form under the guise of cutting him a deal- either you get your deposit back in full or you post in the form AND also report him to the PRTB. Then when he pays the deposit back fill in the rent form regardless as it is the only way you'll get your hands on the €1,800 that is due to you.

Finally please realise that there is a certain breed of landlord in this country who operate in this manner, they like to act like bullies when it comes to paying deposits back. Not all landlords are like this but there is a significant minority who are. The mechanisms to report them and secure justice were not available to tenants for decades but now they are. Don't hesitate to use them, regardless of how slow the justice takes to arrive it will eventually arrive.

hognef

RATM wrote: »

You are due a back payment from Revenue of 9% of the €20,000 rent paid to date- around €1,800.

Where did you get those numbers from? They don't seem correct.

You can claim 20% of a capped amount of the rent. For 2012, the cap for a single person is €1200, meaning a max actual relief of €240. Higher caps were in place for previous years, but the overall amount will be nowhere near €1800. Details here:

www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/tax_relief_for_tenants.html

RATM

hognef wrote: »

Where did you get those numbers from? They don't seem correct.

You can claim 20% of a capped amount of the rent. For 2012, the cap for a single person is €1200, meaning a max actual relief of €240. Higher caps were in place for previous years, but the overall amount will be nowhere near €1800. Details here:

www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/tax_relief_for_tenants.html

Sorry my bad, didn't realise the Revenue had changed the rules since the last time I claimed it which was sometime around 2008/9. Back then it was 9% of the full amount, they've obviouly had major cutbacks of rent relief since then.

So to clarify the OP would be due €240 for 2012, €320 for 2011 and I am not sure what for 2010 as that link doesn't say (it might be 9% of the years rent so assuming €7k then 9% = €630 ) So an approx total refund of €1190 is due. Revenue will adjust the figuers as the OP hasn't lived there for all of 2012 and has lived there for some of 2009 so it may be a little higher than €1200. Revenue always seem to take a 10% slice for themselves in these things too- I don't ever remember getting a full full refund but a 90% one is better than nothing.

hognef

RATM wrote: »

hognef wrote: »

Where did you get those numbers from? They don't seem correct.

You can claim 20% of a capped amount of the rent. For 2012, the cap for a single person is €1200, meaning a max actual relief of €240. Higher caps were in place for previous years, but the overall amount will be nowhere near €1800. Details here:

www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/tax_relief_for_tenants.html

Sorry my bad, didn't realise the Revenue had changed the rules since the last time I claimed it which was sometime around 2008/9. Back then it was 9% of the full amount, they've obviouly had major cutbacks of rent relief since then.

So to clarify the OP would be due €240 for 2012, €320 for 2011 and I am not sure what for 2010 as that link doesn't say (it might be 9% of the years rent so assuming €7k then 9% = €630 ) So an approx total refund of €1190 is due. Revenue will adjust the figuers as the OP hasn't lived there for all of 2012 and has lived there for some of 2009 so it may be a little higher than €1200. Revenue always seem to take a 10% slice for themselves in these things too- I don't ever remember getting a full full refund but a 90% one is better than nothing.

It has been 20% of a capped amount at least since 2007 (2007: €1800, 2008-10: €2000):

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.revenue.ie%2Fen%2Ftax%2Fit%2Fforms%2Frent1.pdf&ei=nYtJUKThGMHS0QWS7IA4&usg=AFQjCNGyoRazCeoFu1ww-Hs_YCziz7h7uw

So for 2010 the OP would be die €400. Same for 2009, assuming she was in the flat for long enough to have paid at least €2000 in rent, and assuming she hasn't already claimed for that year against another rental.

Sum total might be 240+320+400+400=1360.

EricPraline

odds_on wrote: »

How many house owners paint the interior of their properties every couple of years. Certainly my parents did not paint even every five years. I certainly don't paint every five years, let alone every couple of years. I and my family have respect for my property, even with children in the house it is not necessary to do so. It seems that only landlords have to repaint the interiors every couple of years.

You have to naturally expect that renting will cause wear and tear above and beyond what you would get in an own-occupied property. Some tenants will naturally be less careful than others, no matter how closely you vet them.

Making comparisons to a owner-occupiers is a little flawed anyway. A landlord is running a business. Therefore, making a property attractive to prospective tenants by routinely spending a small amount of money to paint or do other minor redecoration seems like a sensible step.

If your parents were renting students bedsits, that's (perhaps) understandable. However, renting to professionals and leaving it more than 4 years to do a quick repaint of the interior is pushing it imho.

BostonB

I think the point is what is it that tenants do that causes so much wear and tear and damage and dirt. They are often in excess of what even toddlers would create. If it was students you might have some excuse. But mormal adults?

In one place the tenants took every knob, handle and wheel off every bed, locker and drawer in the house? another damaged almost every price of furniture in about 6 month when the previous tenant broke nothing in 5yrs. Just baffling to be honest.

Andy!!

Caroline_ie wrote: »

He told me that the day I moved in. I had nowhere else to go, I'm foreign, I said OK ...

There's lots of foreigners living in Ireland, not sure finding accomodation for yourself was akin to the Virgin Mary finding a barn to sleep in :pac:

You should have kept the place clean, but no, I do not think you should need to shampoo carpets. He is clearly taking the **** with not returning the deposit.

borderlinemeath

BostonB wrote: »

I think the point is what is it that tenants do that causes so much wear and tear and damage and dirt. They are often in excess of what even toddlers would create. If it was students you might have some excuse. But mormal adults?

In one place the tenants took every knob, handle and wheel off every bed, locker and drawer in the house? another damaged almost every price of furniture in about 6 month when the previous tenant broke nothing in 5yrs. Just baffling to be honest.

But then you do get the landlords that after getting stung once, will always hold a grudge and try and do every tenant thereafter.

TBH, a cobweb or two wouldn't bother me, I wouldn't penalise a tenant for regular housekeeping type cleaning. What I would have an issue with is a layer of grease in a kitchen because they won't turn on a fan or open a window. Same goes for mold in a bathroom due to refusal to open a window EVER.

What is it with tenants and windows?

BostonB

Andy!! wrote: »

...You should have kept the place clean, but no, I do not think you should need to shampoo carpets. He is clearly taking the **** with not returning the deposit....

That would depend if they just need a general clean, or if theres something thats damaged them.

BostonB

borderlinemeath wrote: »

But then you do get the landlords that after getting stung once, will always hold a grudge and try and do every tenant thereafter.

TBH, a cobweb or two wouldn't bother me, I wouldn't penalise a tenant for regular housekeeping type cleaning. What I would have an issue with is a layer of grease in a kitchen because they won't turn on a fan or open a window. Same goes for mold in a bathroom due to refusal to open a window EVER.

What is it with tenants and windows?

The odd cobweb is one thing. not doing any cleaning for 6 months is another. You know some swears blind they've scrubbed the place for days, and you put you hand on any surface and comes away black once you manage to free your hand from the surface suction.

borderlinemeath

BostonB wrote: »

The odd cobweb is one thing. not doing any cleaning for 6 months is another. You know some swears blind they've scrubbed the place for days, and you put you hand on any surface and comes away black once you manage to free your hand from the surface suction.

Agreed. What I would consider housekeeping would be a week or two, a light layer of dust etc.

Feck sack there's a spider living in the wing mirror of my car, every day I brush away the cobweb and every night he builds another!

hognef

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Same goes for mold in a bathroom due to refusal to open a window EVER.

What is it with tenants and windows?

Strictly speaking, a properly ventilated bathroom doesn't need windows (I've lived in several apartments with windowless bathrooms in which no dampness or mold has ever appeared). If a window needs to be opened regularly in order to avoid dampness, then this is due to a poorly implemented ventilation system.

But even accounting for poor building regulations and poor adherence to poor building regulations: Landlords regularly look for references from employers before the rental can commence, i.e. they're aware that the tenants will be at work most of the day.

If an alarm is used during the day (or the tenants are simply concerned about people climbing in the window), then most likely the window can't be open. So: When would you expect the tenants to open the window, assuming they mainly use the bathroom in the morning before leaving for work?

Dyr

hognef wrote: »

Assuming the walls and ceiling were scrubbed before you moved in, I'd say it would be reasonable to expect you to do the same. Spider's webs certainly shouldn't be present in a "clean" flat.

AFAIK its not reasonable or legal to withhold a deposit for cleaning or normal wear and tear over the course of a tenancy.

hognef

Bambi wrote: »

AFAIK its not reasonable or legal to withhold a deposit for cleaning or normal wear and tear over the course of a tenancy.

As BostonB has already stated, it is certainly legal to withhold parts of the deposit for unsatisfactory cleaning.

BostonB

hognef wrote: »

Strictly speaking, a properly ventilated bathroom doesn't need windows (I've lived in several apartments with windowless bathrooms in which no dampness or mold has ever appeared). If a window needs to be opened regularly in order to avoid dampness, then this is due to a poorly implemented ventilation system.

But even accounting for poor building regulations and poor adherence to poor building regulations: Landlords regularly look for references from employers before the rental can commence, i.e. they're aware that the tenants will be at work most of the day.

If an alarm is used during the day (or the tenants are simply concerned about people climbing in the window), then most likely the window can't be open. So: When would you expect the tenants to open the window, assuming they mainly use the bathroom in the morning before leaving for work?

Don't rent somewhere where you can't ventilate the room, and/or the window can't be locked in an open position. In my experience a lot of the windowless bathrooms do not have adequate ventilation. I've had to upgrade my own fan and ventilation for that reason. I think a lot of places were designed when baths were the norm, not marathon showers by numerous people, like a rented place with a number of people all going out in the morning.

GetWithIt

RATM wrote: »

Sorry my bad, didn't realise the Revenue had changed the rules since the last time I claimed it which was sometime around 2008/9. Back then it was 9% of the full amount, they've obviouly had major cutbacks of rent relief since then.

Rent relief was never claimed in this fashion. I've had the relief since 1998.

RATM wrote: »

So to clarify the OP would be due €240 for 2012, €320 for 2011 and I am not sure what for 2010 as that link doesn't say (it might be 9% of the years rent so assuming €7k then 9% = €630 ) So an approx total refund of €1190 is due. Revenue will adjust the figuers as the OP hasn't lived there for all of 2012 and has lived there for some of 2009 so it may be a little higher than €1200. Revenue always seem to take a 10% slice for themselves in these things too- I don't ever remember getting a full full refund but a 90% one is better than nothing.

Your figures are completely wrong. Just completely wrong in every respect.

OP, you can claim rent relief for the 3 years retrospectively. In fact it may be 4 years as it's an annual relief. This is assuming you were paying tax for those years.

You don't need all your Landlord's details. Simply get the form and fill in all the information you have. It should work out to something like E200 per year, assuming you paid sufficient tax during those years.

With regards the cleaning, your landlord may be taking advantage but there's no way of knowing without seeing the condition before and after. He may well be an ass but that's a different matter. Leave the place in a condition you feel is reasonable. Take plenty of pictures and if there are issues simply lodge a complaint with the prtb Your landlord does not need to be registered in order for them to act.

borderlinemeath

hognef wrote: »

Strictly speaking, a properly ventilated bathroom doesn't need windows (I've lived in several apartments with windowless bathrooms in which no dampness or mold has ever appeared). If a window needs to be opened regularly in order to avoid dampness, then this is due to a poorly implemented ventilation system.

But even accounting for poor building regulations and poor adherence to poor building regulations: Landlords regularly look for references from employers before the rental can commence, i.e. they're aware that the tenants will be at work most of the day.

If an alarm is used during the day (or the tenants are simply concerned about people climbing in the window), then most likely the window can't be open. So: When would you expect the tenants to open the window, assuming they mainly use the bathroom in the morning before leaving for work?

The windows in my house and in all my partners property are the type that you can leave 'on the latch' while securely locked.

Even in the depths of winter I open my own bathroom window before having a shower and leave it open for a few minutes afterwards. I miraculously manage to close it before leaving the house, if I don't the alarm tells me that one of the zones is preventing regular alarm set. (I can set it with the windows open for overnight)

Apart from the bathroom imagine having to clean a bedroom that the window had never been opened and the tenant chain smoked while it seems played marathon computer game sessions. The condensation streaks on the windows were orange. It took 3 coats of paint to rid the room of the smell.

And the kitchen. Fan ignored, windows practically sealed shut with grease.

hognef

BostonB wrote: »

Don't rent somewhere where you can't ventilate the room, and/or the window can't be locked in an open position. In my experience a lot of the windowless bathrooms do not have adequate ventilation. I've had to upgrade my own fan and ventilation for that reason. I think a lot of places were designed when baths were the norm, not marathon showers by numerous people, like a rented place with a number of people all going out in the morning.

My argument is that the onus is on the landlord to install ventilation adequate for the anticipated use. If they're expecting professional tenants, then upgrade the ventilation. Otherwise they shouldn't expect to get away with withholding any part of the deposit as a result of dampness/mold.

borderlinemeath

hognef wrote: »

My argument is that the onus is on the landlord to install ventilation adequate for the anticipated use. If they're expecting professional tenants, then upgrade the ventilation. Otherwise they shouldn't expect to get away with withholding any part of the deposit as a result of dampness/mold.

So should we hold the tenants hand while we show them how to open and close a window? :rolleyes: The onus is on a tenant to act like a responsible adult.

I have encountered tenants that despise those bathroom fans. In one of my partners properties they disconnected/broke it because it. And they still refused to open the window. In another they've asked for it to be disconnected because it's 'too loud'.

Victor

hognef wrote: »

So: When would you expect the tenants to open the window, assuming they mainly use the bathroom in the morning before leaving for work?

In particular, any time they've used a large amount of hot water. If you have a shower, leave the window open for 5 minutes.

hognef

borderlinemeath wrote: »

So should we hold the tenants hand while we show them how to open and close a window? :rolleyes: The onus is on a tenant to act like a responsible adult.

I have encountered tenants that despise those bathroom fans. In one of my partners properties they disconnected/broke it because it. And they still refused to open the window. In another they've asked for it to be disconnected because it's 'too loud'.

Of course there has to be a bit of responsibility on both sides, but: There's a reason why building regulations require active extraction to be installed in bathrooms. A window is not required, and should not be the primary means of ventilating a bathroom.

borderlinemeath

hognef wrote: »

Of course there has to be a bit of responsibility on both sides, but: There's a reason why building regulations require active extraction to be installed in bathrooms. A window is not required, and should not be the primary means of ventilating a bathroom.

That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard:D

Most bathrooms have windows. Pretty much all houses with bathrooms have windows, some apartments don't, or flats that are a house divided and converted. I don't know why you are so stuck on building regs when I am obviously giving an example of a house with a bathroom and a window, a house that was built about 50 years ago when there was no such thing as installing ventilation in bathrooms. You're getting stuck on a point which has nothing got to do with building regs but the responsibility of a tenant to maintain a property that they are renting as their home.

BostonB

Even if builders adhered to the regs which they didn't.

hognef

borderlinemeath wrote: »

That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard:D

Most bathrooms have windows. Pretty much all houses with bathrooms have windows, some apartments don't, or flats that are a house divided and converted. I don't know why you are so stuck on building regs when I am obviously giving an example of a house with a bathroom and a window, a house that was built about 50 years ago when there was no such thing as installing ventilation in bathrooms. You're getting stuck on a point which has nothing got to do with building regs but the responsibility of a tenant to maintain a property that they are renting as their home.

I'm renting a house built about 15 years ago, at which time I would have thought (but I could well be wrong on this) building regs would have required extraction, yet there's no such thing in either the en-suite or the main bathroom. We do try to open windows whenever the en-suite shower is in use, yet there is dampness and mold appearing. My conclusion is that it's not simply a case of opening windows - the room is not fit for purpose (regardless of building regs, really).

borderlinemeath

hognef wrote: »

I'm renting a house built about 15 years ago, at which time I would have thought (but I could well be wrong on this) building regs would have required extraction, yet there's no such thing in either the en-suite or the main bathroom. We do try to open windows whenever the en-suite shower is in use, yet there is dampness and mold appearing. My conclusion is that it's not simply a case of opening windows - the room is not fit for purpose (regardless of building regs, really).

It can also be caused by poor insulation and also lack of heating. If you have rads turned off in rooms that you don't use, check them regularly.