Non-Boiler Multifuel stove - long version

Briskit

Hello All,

I'm looking to install a Non-Boiler Multifuel Stove into a living room (circa 150ft/sq) that's adjacent to a similar sized dining room with adjoining door.

I'm in the south Dublin region and would welcome people's feedback and comments about people and places that they have used for such a purchase. I would prefer to have the unit professionally installed.

I would also appreciate any feedback about inserted stoves V's stand alone stoves.

I look forward to hearing back from those of you who are more experienced with such things.

Thanks for listing,

Briskit.

Briskit

The same question as above... Just in a more detailed, and I guess longwinded form:


Hello,

Brand new to this forum. I've been getting information from Boards for a long time now but have only recently decided participate more in the discussions here.. and yeah, ask a lot of questions.

I'm moving into a new house at the moment, and the living room has a very ugly 50's/60's tiled fireplace. Anyway... I'm definitely going to remove it sooner rather than later, but have been trying to research boilers.

I went to a showroom in Churchtown in Dublin today, and the man there who sold all kinds of boilers was saying that a properly done 'Insert Stove' is just a good at giving off heat as a stand alone stove.

He made a lot of sense as he said that its all about the materials used in the back and surround, and with the proper bricks, the heat would be reflected and projected out the front.. whereas with standard and non-professional approaches, the back and sides absorb a lot of the heat.

Anyway, I'm looking at something around 4-6kw that would comfortably heat a sitting and possibly a dining room if the adjoining doors were open using a mix of good quality turf and nice dry wood. (most likely softwood, but that would vary!)

The types of stoves I looked at today were TR multifuel stoves - they have insert and stand alone models.. and also some featured an 'air management system' called "scirrocco" which allegedly circulates the heated air to assist in the burning to get a more efficient burn with an end result of a hotter room!

The man today was very professional and couldn't emphasize enough how the PROPER fitting of these stoves makes all the difference and his explanations made his argument very convincing.

I'd like to hear your opinions on the different types of stoves available and your recommendations of the pros and cons with different systems.

Also, if somebody does this kind of work or is willing to recommend somebody, feel free to PM this kind of information with email, webpage or phone number.

I would also like to get some ball park prices ranges.

Today we discussed a surround.. a specialised fireplace that could take the heat... A more economical option would be nice, as I find some of the stand alone stoves are very attractive and don't really need a surround??

Also.. I've read on here on some older threads that the stand alone can be more awkward to get to the chimney when they need cleaning due to sharper angled bends in the flu.

Sorry about the length of the post... Don't know why everytime I ask a question it turns into an novel!

paddy147

I have a Stovax Riva 66 Multi Fuel insert stove.Its rated at 8kw.

I burn briquettes,turf and logs in it.
Some serious whack of heat out of it.

paddy147

Heating Distributors in M50 Business Park,Finglas have a very large showroom with alot of various makes and models of stoves on display.They also aell heat revovery systems and radiators too.

http://www.heating-distributors.ie/

They also have several working models too,so you can see how the various stoves work and burn fuel.

Briskit

paddy147 wrote: »

I have a Stovax Riva 66 Multi Fuel insert stove.Its rated at 8kw.

I burn briquettes,turf and logs in it.
Some serious whack of heat out of it.

Absolutely fair play to you Paddy. The pictures explain it very well and I love the simplicity of your final insert. I would definitely be happy with sothat mething along those lines. Nice work if you did it yourself!

As far as the bricks go... is there any particular type I should be looking for so all the heat radiates out around the room and the minimum possible heat is lost into the bricks.

Thanks again for your post.

Briskit

paddy147 wrote: »

Heating Distributors in M50 Business Park,Finglas have a very large showroom with alot of various makes and models of stoves on display.They also aell heat revovery systems and radiators too.

http://www.heating-distributors.ie/

They also have several working models too,so you can see how the various stoves work and burn fuel.

I'll look up this crowd later on when I have some time... Again, absolutely fair play to you for sharing your expertise.

Appreciate that,

Briskit

paddy147

Im no expert..far from it.

I was in the same boat as you...bought a mid 1950s house and rennovated/extended it.

One thing I will say is...INSULATION.

If you can internally insulate the house,then you will be as snug as a bug in a rug.

Briskit

haha... but you know more than me, that's for sure... so as I said, any information is gratefully accepted

There's no doubt, that's a priority that's on my mind right now too... the thing is... the rads are on the same external walls as the windows... so it makes drylining with the kingspan sheetrock boards awkward... I'll probably be starting a thread about insulation soon too.. I think there's some kind of thinner foil type insulation you can put on the walls with lats? and then sheetrock or plaster over... I think this would suit me, as I'd get in behind the rads... the one good point about the house is that it got nice pvc double glazed fitted about 5 years ago..... but I do know from past experience that these cinderblock semi-d's get very chilly when its cold... trying to get a good start before we unpack by taking care of these issues... even if its just a room at a time...

paddy147

Briskit wrote: »

haha... but you know more than me, that's for sure... so as I said, any information is gratefully accepted

There's no doubt, that's a priority that's on my mind right now too... the thing is... the rads are on the same external walls as the windows... so it makes drylining with the kingspan sheetrock boards awkward... I'll probably be starting a thread about insulation soon too.. I think there's some kind of thinner foil type insulation you can put on the walls with lats? and then sheetrock or plaster over... I think this would suit me, as I'd get in behind the rads... the one good point about the house is that it got nice pvc double glazed fitted about 5 years ago..... but I do know from past experience that these cinderblock semi-d's get very chilly when its cold... trying to get a good start before we unpack by taking care of these issues... even if its just a room at a time...

Any good plasterer will tell you that "idealy" you should remove the rads and bracksts to replaster a room.
You can get foil backed sheets of 8 x 4 plasterboard in any builders providers.

I had my house stripped back to 4 bare walls when renovating.

The entire house was then insulated with 50mm and 80mm insulated slab,the attics were spray foamed with Bio-Foam 800 open cell foam.
A-Rated windows too.

I also he ceilings done with 35mm insulated slab too.And then opted for a solar system install aswell.

The gas heating was barely on last winter and the previous winter,as the house holds the heat so well.

Just having people in the house creates heat and the house retains that heat unbelievebly well.

Stick on the stove for a few hours and the heat is absolutely amazing indeed.:)




If you can,then go and do the insulation,as you will not regret it.Its an investment for the future too.

The CER just allowed for an immediate price increase of 8.5% on gas and electricty,even though Bord Gais made massive proffits last year.

magicbastarder

there's a place with a good selection of stoves - insert and stand alone - in the place centred on the map here:
http://maps.google.com/?ll=53.453956,-6.63733&spn=0.007219,0.021136&t=m&z=16

i know someone who was quoted €800 for supply and fit of what i think was a 6kW or thereabouts insert stove.

magicbastarder

paddy147 wrote: »

I had my house stripped back to 4 bare walls when renovating.

The entire house was then insulated with 50mm and 80mm insulated slab,the attics were spray foamed with Bio-Foam 800 open cell foam.
A-Rated windows too.

out of curiosity, how were the rads mounted, given the thickness of the insulated wallboard?

paddy147

magicbastarder wrote: »

out of curiosity, how were the rads mounted, given the thickness of the insulated wallboard?

100 and 120mm Frame Fixers.

Plumber mounted the brackets this way when installing the new central heating system,and recommended them to me too.

Also used for installing curtain poles through the insulation.:)

Briskit

Absolutely brilliant Paddy. Inspirational stuff...

I don't think I can go as far as you did with stripping the place back to bare walls, but I just contacted a friend's brother from the country with plastering, sheetrocking and a decent bit of plumbing skills... he says that we should be able to put elbows on the radiator pipes so that they can be mounted further off the wall then they currently are to allow us to put the thick kingspan slabs up. Very excited about that.. he's going to come up to Dublin at the weekend and we're going to have a look at the place.

You gave me a grate idea with insulating the ceiling with slabs too and he said we'd have a look at that too... So am very enthused now to be taking the first steps in the right direction and its nice people like yourself share your good ideas and what not.

Herself won't be happy about us having just moved into a building site, but I'll suffer the grief for a month or two instead of hearing complaints for years about how cold the place is and how tight I am for switching the boiler on for only 8 hours a day!!!!!! I'd definitely like to get the place set up to retain more heat.

You're photos are terrific and it's no surprise that you were all tucked up comfortable even during that arctic winter two years back... Bord Gais must be still laughing at how much money I pumped up the chimney with one of those gas fireplaces!

Super stuff.. good to get the wheels in motion.

Briskit

magicbastarder wrote: »

there's a place with a good selection of stoves - insert and stand alone - in the place centred on the map here:
http://maps.google.com/?ll=53.453956,-6.63733&spn=0.007219,0.021136&t=m&z=16

i know someone who was quoted €800 for supply and fit of what i think was a 6kW or thereabouts insert stove.

that Price sounds good Magicbastarder, and cheers for the map. Do you recall the name of this place...

I'll have a better look at the map now in a bit, as the answer might be staring me in the face!

paddy147

Briskit wrote: »

Absolutely brilliant Paddy. Inspirational stuff...

I don't think I can go as far as you did with stripping the place back to bare walls, but I just contacted a friend's brother from the country with plastering, sheetrocking and a decent bit of plumbing skills... he says that we should be able to put elbows on the radiator pipes so that they can be mounted further off the wall thent he currently are to allow us to put the thick kingspan slabs up. Very excited about that.. he's going to come up to Dublin at the weekend and we're going to have a look at the place.

You gave me a grate idea with insulating the ceiling with slabs too and he said we'd have a look at that too... So am very enthused now to be taking the first steps in the right direction and its nice people like yourself share your good ideas and what not.

Herself won't be happy about us having just moved into a building site, but I'll suffer the grief for a month or two instead of hearing complaints for years about how cold the place is and how tight I am for switching the boiler on for only 8 hours a day!!!!!! I'd definitely like to get the place set up to retain more heat.

You're photos are terrific and it's no surprise that you were all tucked up comfortable even during that arctic winter two years back... Bord Gais must be still laughing at how much money I pumped up the chimney with one of those gas fireplaces!

Super stuff.. good to get the wheels in motion.

Well as my father allways used to say..."short term pain for long term gain"

Tell your missus that she will love you even more come winter time,when the house is much warmer and comfy to live in and you are using less gas/electricity to heat the house.;):D

PS-If you can afford it,then get the insulation and plastering work done NOW..while the weather is still good and not cold.:)

You can paint after about 3 weeks to a month after all the rooms and plaster has fully dried out/cured.

magicbastarder

Briskit wrote: »

that Price sounds good Magicbastarder, and cheers for the map. Do you recall the name of this place...

I'll have a better look at the map now in a bit, as the answer might be staring me in the face!

this is the place:
http://www.yellowtom.ie/148431/eco

magicbastarder

paddy147 wrote: »

You can paint after about 3 weeks to a month after all the rooms and plaster has fully dried out/cured.

i'e heard this a few times, but i've painted over plaster which was a week up, on a couple of occasions, and never had any ill effects.

paddy147

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'e heard this a few times, but i've painted over plaster which was a week up, on a couple of occasions, and never had any ill effects.

I had all the windows and doors open to let a stong draught the house.

Well I had no front door,just a piece of 8 x 4 WPB ply screwed into place as a door,each evening,after the builder and various trades people had finished for the day.

The plasterer,told me to hold off painting for as long as possible,as it would give the entire house a chance to dry out/cure natural.

I know that this may not suit everyone and their own situation,but I just decided to hold off for around 1 month.

Then myself and my girlfriend got stuck into choosing various paint colours and painting the house ourselves.

Saved alot of dosh doing it ourselves.;)

magicbastarder

getting back to the topic in question, i installed a stanley tara stove myself in my house (with help from the da) a few years back. we were lucky in that the fireplace opening was much bigger than the standard (was an arched affair, i'll see if i can find a photo).
i think the tara is an 8kW stove, using coal. but we only ever burned wood or the compressed wood shaving briquettes in it. we ended up getting a cheapish ceiling fan in B&Q as there was a big temperature gradient in the room (not helped by the house being a bit draughty).
anyway, the room was about the same size, with double doors into a room of about 200sq ft.
ideally, i'd have liked to get a back boiler model, but it was a gas fired central heating system so that ruled that out.

i got the stove in gings homevalue hardware in portlaoise - it was €300 cheaper than a stockist in dublin (admittedly in sandyford) for the same model.

Briskit

Again Magicbastarder... yourself and paddy147 have really gotten me up to speed here today.. I was just out in the house and I was checking the radiators, sockets, mouldings etc., in each room where drylining would be required... it's a good way to all of a sudden take in all the niggly bits... as you then see sockets etc., that may need extended wiring etc., as I noticed before when i changed a light fitting that there wasn't much room for play.

Anyway... I've only a day or so left in this place before I officially move out and having talked to you guys, i wish I had stayed here a month longer to get a headstart on myself pre all the stuff getting hauled in.. but feck it.. we'll just have to give it a whirl.

Thanks for the location of the stove store and I'll look up the Stanely Tara as well.. I'm on an oil fired central heating system, so I'll research the possibility of a back boiler now that I've been learning more... but we'll see.

Cheers lads,

Appreciate that.


P.S.

Paddy... was that you taking photos when herself was way up doing the high painting on the ladder ... mind you.. it did look like a good sturdy ladder all the same!! Spoiled ye have her;)

P.P.S. Between moving and adapting pets, cars, garden plants and garden 'ensembles', scooter, bikes, furniture and what not, .. coupled with work... I've been spread pretty thin... so it's been a pleasure to get such nice feedback on here on the rare occasion I get a chance to grab a cup of tay and maybe a bite... the only fecker is when you're moving between two gaffs... you always leave the phone/laptop charger in the wrong one!!!:D... That's Murphy playing tricks on me again.

Cheers again agus oíche mhaith...

magicbastarder

you can, afaik, get back boiler stoves which will plug into gas fired systems, but they're more expensive.
one of the benefits of a back boiler model - apart from the heating the rads bit - is that it reduces the amount of heat going into the room, so you don't necessarily get a tan from sitting near the stove.

the most important piece of advice i'd give about running a stove - do not burn unseasoned wood in it. it will drastically reduce the efficiency.

paddy147

Briskit wrote: »

Paddy... was that you taking photos when herself was way up doing the high painting on the ladder ... mind you.. it did look like a good sturdy ladder all the same!! Spoiled ye have her;)

P.P.S. Between moving and adapting pets, cars, garden plants and garden 'ensembles', scooter, bikes, furniture and what not, .. coupled with work... I've been spread pretty thin... so it's been a pleasure to get such nice feedback on here on the rare occasion I get a chance to grab a cup of tay and maybe a bite... the only fecker is when you're moving between two gaffs... you always leave the phone/laptop charger in the wrong one!!!:D... That's Murphy playing tricks on me again.

Cheers again agus oíche mhaith...

Im only good for taking the pictures and shes a tough little cookie indeed.;)

She is better at painting than myself,she did the ceilings and walls,and I did all the skirting boards.
She also designed and built/planted the gardens too.:)



Hope all has gone well for you so far,and hope all goes well for the future too.:)

Briskit

paddy147 wrote: »

Im only good for taking the pictures and shes a tough little cookie indeed.;)

She is better at painting than myself,she did the ceilings and walls,and I did all the skirting boards.
She also designed and built/planted the gardens too.:)



Hope all has gone well for you so far,and hope all goes well for the future too.:)

Well, if she's better at it than you are, then you're right to set her loose ... my one wouldn't be keen on ladders...

Regarding yesterday...

... didn't get much done yesterday, as on one of my last run's over with a packed car... the cat got out (they need time to settle in a new place) - so we were very upset about that and I even brought the dogs around the neighbourhood to see if they could pick up the scent... but alas, piddlin' on other dogs' scent is all they did!!!

Then, with a fully loaded borrowed estate car in the driveway, I realised that it was locked and I couldn't find the key.. & all my house key, bike, scooter keys etc., were in it... The only good thing was that I knew it had to be around as I needed the keyfob to lock the door in the first place, and the house wasn't locked when I arrived - although some of the rooms where I stored some stuff before were & you know by now where those keys were too:D.

... so a stressful and hectic late evening ensued, searching the pitch black lawns out front and back.. and if we have a torch, it's buried in a stack of boxes in an upstairs room!!! - it's amazing when I retraced the 5minutes after leaving the car how far and wide I had wandered (looking for the cat mainly).

Anyway... like you know yourself... herself, saw me in a state and told me to sit down relax and eat, as that's why I was frazzled and losing things in the first place.

So sit down and eat we did, and in wanders the cat himself... poor wee fella doesn't know what's going on with the change of scenery, but we were deeeelighted to see him safe and well.

... then, with stomach at ease from eating and not stressing about the cat, herself found the keys on the stairs and gave me a look!!!

So ended up being happy with the days work, even though I didn't get feck all done ... still delighted... Work's busy, so things are on the back boiler (bad pun) 'til the weekend, then I'm gonna go to that warehouse that Magicbastarder mentioned and do more web searches and the fella should be around on Sunday to discuss the drylining and insulation.


I realise I've gone a bit off-topic with this thread... but I'll pop in now and again but it really is time to get the finger out and there's heaps to keep busy with... so I'll pop back when I start making some progress, or when I get nearer narrowing down the stoves that suit my needs and pocket and I may throw a few questions back out there in the thread.

cheers,

Briskit.