Is Humpty Dumpty an Egg?

Topper Harley

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It was concept art gone violently and tragically wrong.

Humpty was meant to represent the working man, standing on his own on top of the kings wall but he had too much booze and fell off it. The Kings men and Horses (Capitalism) couldnt help him went he did fall off the wall and all his socialist mates (who fed him the booze) used it as an attack on the health service.

No, he was an egg.

Riddle101

This came to my mind when I read the OP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwAookPFWZQ

MadsL

iverjohnston wrote: »

At the time of the civil war in 1648, Colchester was a town with a castle and several churches and was protected by the city wall.

During the siege of Colchester, the 15th century tower of the church known as 'St Mary's by the Wall' was indeed much damaged. This happened because, on June 15th 1648, the church was strengthened against attack, by putting a cannon on the roof. As in the story, a gunner known as 'One-Eyed Jack Thompson' fired the cannon. He caused a lot of damage to Lord Fairfax's attacking troops.

Thompson's success made many of the Roundheads fire onto the church roof and, sometime during the 14th or 15th of July, Thompson and his gun came tumbling down. The damaged cannon could not be raised again.

This was one of a number of setbacks and, on August 28th 1648, the Royalists lay down their weapons, opened the gates of Colchester and surrendered to the Parliamentarians

Got thisfrom "Myths &Ledgends" from Google.

and debunked as a hoax...

http://bshistorian.wordpress.com/2008/10/11/putting-the-dump-in-humpty-dumpty/

This story is being used heavily to promote the book, because it sounds so damn plausible, and specific, just as statements made by a bogus psychic can. The author evens claims to have discovered a lost verse;

In Sixteen Hundred and Forty-Eight
When England suffered the pains of state
The Roundheads lay siege to Colchester town
Where the King’s men still fought for the crown
There One-Eyed Thompson stood on the wall
A gunner of deadliest aim of all
From St. Mary’s Tower his cannon he fired
Humpty-Dumpty was its name
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall…
Needless to say, the local press loved it. But as you’ve probably guessed, and as this journalist reports, this story, this part of the book, and perhaps even ALL origin stories for nursery rhymes, are BS. But let’s focus on Humpty and Colchester. First off, this is NOT a new discovery. The siege origin has been online for some time (1996 in fact, more on that below). There are also serious problems with the language and structure used in the expanded rhyme. The language used is not 17th century English, in my opinion. It’s also far more detailed than any nursery rhyme, and is in fact a fully-fledged poem. Even if period, it would make sense only as an historical piece based upon an existing rhyme, not, as advertised, the other way around.

As far as I can tell, this interpretation of the story originally concerned Gloucester, NOT Colchester. That town got in on the act some time later (I’ll touch on this later on). It’s also completely fictional. To quote the Oxford Dictionary of Nursery Rhymes;

“Professor David Daube, in one of a series of spoof nursery-rhyme histories for The Oxford Magazine (1956), put forward the ingenious idea that Humpty Dumpty was a siege engine in the Civil War.”

Yes – a spoof. No doubt a relatively subtle one for this day and age, but a spoof nonetheless. This 1880s review gives a flavour of its remit. Even if taken literally, the leaps of logic the involved make Daube’s a nonsense hypothesis. Iona Opie put it best when she said of this and other made-up origins that;

“This is ingenuity for ingenuity’s sake; but the inventor must also feel some satisfaction if, as with the current craze for horrific “urban legends”, he can watch his story spreading to a public gullible enough to repeat it in earnest”.

Lando Griffin

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Lars1916 wrote: »

Some snakes lay eggs, too. Do they?

Indeed my learned friend. In fact, quite a few members of the reptile species lay eggs. A very good documentary I would suggest to watch is Jurassic Park.

Also one must remember that fish lay eggs too.

MadsL

Lando Griffin wrote: »

Also one must remember that fish lay eggs too.

La-di-da cav-i-ar...? Or battered roe?

MadsL

An anagram of "is Humpty Dumpty and egg" = A Mugged Tipsy Pun Myth

Plazaman

Given the load bearing strenght of the average 5 foot stone wall as y and the ovality factor of an average egg as an integer which we shall call x and then the relative positioning of said egg on a wall be it

or

. Therefore

y^4-3(x^4)=-131
3(x^4)-y^4=131

[3^1/2 (x^2)]^2 - [y^2]^2=131
{

-

}{

+

}=131

---

expression (A)
the {

+

} is not integer because,

IF: x and y were positive integers then x^2 and y^2 would also be integers,
SQRT(3) is not an integer, therefore (x^2)(sqrt(3)) cannot be an integer

we can expand {

-

} again as difference of squares

{(3^1/4)(x)}^2-y^2}= [3^1/4(x)-y][3^1/4+y]
so we have - using "int" for integer and "non" for non integer,
[non-int]=non
[non+int]=non

So, in (A) we have, (non)(non)(non)=131

The fractional part of the first and second (non) is the fractional part of the root of 3 but the integer part is different so, it will not produce an integer.
The fractional part of the third (non) is the fractional part of sqrt of 3 so, it will not produce an integer when multiplied with the first 2 (non).
Therefore, these (non)(non)(non) will not produce an integer. But 131 is an integer.

It follows that our initial supposition about x and y was not valid and therefore we can conclude that Humpty Dumpty did not actually fall but in fact caught a dose of the gay from sitting on said wall.

--Kaiser--

Here's a nice trick

1) Aquire French acquaintance
2) Get them to read the passage below
3) Fall over laughing

Un petit d'un petit
S'étonne aux Halles
Un petit d'un petit
Ah! degrés te fallent
Indolent qui ne sort cesse
Indolent qui ne se mène
Qu'importe un petit d'un petit
Tout Gai de Reguennes.

Topper Harley

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Here's a nice trick

1) Aquire French acquaintance
2) Get them to read the passage below
3) Fall over laughing

Un petit d'un petit
S'étonne aux Halles
Un petit d'un petit
Ah! degrés te fallent
Indolent qui ne sort cesse
Indolent qui ne se mène
Qu'importe un petit d'un petit
Tout Gai de Reguennes.

I don't get it. It's just gibberish.

EDIT: Oh, now I get it. Very good.

You have to wonder why they thought it'd be a good idea to let the horses try first.

LordSutch

Humpty was an egg 'past tense'. He fell off the wall (possibly pissed)? and all the kings horses and all the kings men couldn't pun humpty back together again. Or at least they said they couldn't, but maybe they just weren't arsed on the day? On the other hand, if you have ever dropped an uncooked egg you will know that putting it back together again would be a near impossible task, unless of course Humpty was hard boiled?

pickarooney

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Here's a nice trick

1) Aquire French acquaintance
2) Get them to read the passage below
3) Fall over laughing

Un petit d'un petit
S'étonne aux Halles
Un petit d'un petit
Ah! degrés te fallent
Indolent qui ne sort cesse
Indolent qui ne se mène
Qu'importe un petit d'un petit
Tout Gai de Reguennes.

Lines 5, 6 and 7 don't work


Hall deux qui ne sort seize
Un dole, deux qui ne se mènent
Qu'a donc peut un petit
Tout gai de Reagan

Second line doesn't sound right either - "Ca tonne aux halls" would be better.

--Kaiser--

pickarooney wrote: »

Lines 5, 6 and 7 don't work


Hall deux qui ne sort seize
Un dole, deux qui ne se mènent
Qu'a donc peut un petit
Tout gai de Reagan

Second line doesn't sound right either - "Ca tonne aux halls" would be better.

Believe me, get a native French speaker, it works a charm. The point is to make it sound like someone saying the nursery rhyme with an exaggerated, outrageous accent

gozunda

Ok but I believe we have missed the essential exetential nature of Humpty as an Egg. Take the theory of origins for example - which came first the chicken or the egg? Well there is no chicken explicitly referred to in this rhyme therefore Humpty appears to exist in isolation from a creationist point of view. Was there ever even a chicken involved, could it perhaps been a Duck egg....

(...always wanted to be arts student...sigh!)

Edit: just remembered dinosaurs also laid eggs but unfortuantely that was before horses or even humans evolved so that is a bit of an evolutionary dead end....but at least we can rule out Humpty being a dinosaur.

pickarooney

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Believe me, get a native French speaker, it works a charm. The point is to make it sound like someone saying the nursery rhyme with an exaggerated, outrageous accent

Nah, it's missing too many syllables. There's no 'the' equivalent in 5 and 6 and the "ouldn't" is not either either.

Isn't Humpty Dumpty supposed to be Richard III anyway?

Topper Harley

pickarooney wrote: »

Nah, it's missing too many syllables. There's no 'the' equivalent in 5 and 6 and the "ouldn't" is not either either.

Isn't Humpty Dumpty supposed to be Richard III anyway?

It's not supposed to be perfect, if it's read quickly and with the correct accent, it's adequate enough to know what's meant. Unless it's read by someone with no English and who's never heard of Mr. Dumpty. But any anglophones listening will get it.

bonzodog2

Humpty Dumpty, what a Numpty.