The Gardai - Accomplishments to date

holystungun9

granturismo wrote: »

Having to call to someones door and tell them that their son has died in a car accident is reason enough to deserve respect.

If the scumbags in this country respected the guards there would be a lost less problems.

Should they respect or fear the guards or maybe both? It will be a long time before they respect them that's for sure. I feel they should fear them but I'm not sure how this can come to be. Or fear the law if not the garda force.

Theta

They havent arrested most of the bankers/politicians who have acted improperly or corruptly

This is a classic one.....lock them all up.
If you can name the crime they have committed and provide hard evidence im sure they would have no problem arresting them as it would look great for the stats.

As much as they are the dregs of society and we all hate them all they did was make money without breaking any laws or regulations that existed at the time.

MagicSean

holystungun9 wrote: »

Should they respect or fear the guards or maybe both? It will be a long time before they respect them that's for sure. I feel they should fear them but I'm not sure how this can come to be. Or fear the law if not the garda force.

They often don't even respect their own mothers.

JRant

TheVoodoo wrote: »

Tarring every single guard with the same brush is a bit much. Sure there are jobs-worths, same as every single profession. It's not the random guard on the beats fault the "corrupt politicians" haven't been arrested. Those things take time, months maybe years to compile evidence books. No point in saying 'sure look at the economy, thats the evidence you need'. It simply doesn't work like that. Also it's not csi. The chances of finding a usable print amongst thousands of others are slim. I hate Garda bashing threads, especially when the actual basing is awfully poorly constructed without actual plausible basis.

IMO ones preception of ná gadaí is completely dependent on where you grew up. Having grown up in a very 'rough' area, I seen firsthand the good and bad of the organisation, unfortunately it's more bad then good.
For example, despite never being in trouble with them I was repeatedly stopped and searched, pulled over on the way home from work and generally being treated like a piece of **** by them because I happened to live in a certain area. The attitude of every single one of them was reprehensible and is the main reason why I feel they are not respected at all in working class areas.
However having moved to a more middleclass area the difference in how garda deal with people is completely at odds with this, most are polite, curtious and generally will be of as much help as is possible.
So I can completely understand both points of view.
What I don't want to keep hearing is "oh, it's a difficult job, pays crap, blah blah". This is a non runner for two good reasons. They are fully aware of what they sign up for and to suggest otherwise does the individual involved a huge disservice. The pay is plenty good, as it is not only the salary that must be taken into account but also the pension recieved plus if there not happy with it they can leave.

Musiconomist

CreepingDeath wrote: »

A law has to be broken first.
Please tell me which law a politician has broken specifically?
Fianna Fail were incompetent at managing the economy and made a serious judgement call on the bank guarantee but they were legally elected and given the power to make that call.
They didn't break a law.
Maybe the financial regulator could've been punished for rubber stamping false declarations from the banks, but what politician has broken a law?
You don't understand the situation. .

Bertie Ahern
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0323/breaking1.html

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Gardai have the right to use force to remove people who are causing an obstruction/disruption to the community if necessary.

Welcome to 1984

CreepingDeath wrote: »

And not all bank robbers wear masks/disguises, but we all know the majority do. It's common sense..

Common sense? Most burglaries are carried out by drug addicts. Addicts dont fully understand the implications of their actions, as their frontal lobes are impaired due to substance addiction. Would they be more or less likely to think ahead and bring gloves?
There I just plucked some common sense out of thin air too.

CreepingDeath wrote: »

How do you know that they didn't request information?
On serious incidents they post notices at the scene of the crime and the Gardai ask people if they were around that location at the time..

So a rape isnt serious anymore? Because there were no notices around the crime scene or train station. I've looked. If I had seen one, I wouldnt have posted.

CreepingDeath wrote: »

You tell me?
The gardai have enough work to do with reported crimes, they're not going to go on speculation unless someone makes a report/complaint..

Read the Murphy report.

CreepingDeath wrote: »

You need to prove they had knowledge of it.
Also, they could argue that they heard it under the seal of confession and were not able to disclose it..

Read the Murphy report. Even with this excuse, it doesnt justify moving a priest from one diocese to another.

CreepingDeath wrote: »

No... you still don't understand.
Their job is not to get the criminals to the courtrooms.
You need to read up on the Irish justice system..
Their job is to obtain evidence and file charges to the DPP.
The director of public prosecutions makes a decision whether or not the Guards have enough evidence and have followed the proper procedures (warrants etc), to bring the alleged criminal to court.... not the guards.

Ok, so they're either not following procedures or are not getting sufficient evidence for the DPP to bring these people to court.

Musiconomist

MagicSean wrote: »

How many parents were aware of the claims and did not act? And even sent the kids back to their abuser. The fact is that the church had such a hold over the country that nobody did anything. It's a little strange to be blaming the Gardaí alone. The whole country should take some of that blame.

The keepers of our law shouldnt be held accountable for allowing abuse which they were aware of to continue? The gardai are there to make the rightdecisions, not join in with popular opinion. If they were ruled by popular opinion, child abusers would be hung.

I think I've stopped taking you seriously.

flas

out of the 3 guards i know,only one would have my respect as a guard,he has worked his way up through the ranks and is now what you would call an elite guard,the other two,well one just became a guard because in his own words its a job for life with a good pension and early retirement,the other fella is a complete numpty,he even puts up details of interactions he has had with people throughout his shift etc...he is an absolute idiot who thinks a uniform will make people give him respect. on the not well paid aspect,that doesnt add up either,they are all under the age ofc 34 and all have their own houses and cars,far from bangers by the way!two of them have new golfs,while the other one has a new passat,the only guards ij know who are in anyway a bit screwed financially are so because they bought a few houses to rent out during the boom!i would like to see actually how many landlords in this country are guards!

they do a tough job but its what they signed up for!some are good,some not so good,and it will always be the not so good ones people remember!

MagicSean

Musiconomist wrote: »

The keepers of our law shouldnt be held accountable for allowing abuse which they were aware of to continue? The gardai are there to make the rightdecisions, not join in with popular opinion. If they were ruled by popular opinion, child abusers would be hung.

I think I've stopped taking you seriously.

Again you show your ignorance. While the investigation and prosecution of crime falls to the Gardaí, the decision to prosecute falls to the DPPs office, an office influenced by politics.

And don't worry, I stopped taking you seriously on the first page.

JRant

Theta wrote: »

They havent arrested most of the bankers/politicians who have acted improperly or corruptly

This is a classic one.....lock them all up.
If you can name the crime they have committed and provide hard evidence im sure they would have no problem arresting them as it would look great for the stats.

As much as they are the dregs of society and we all hate them all they did was make money without breaking any laws or regulations that existed at the time.

My opinion would be that it's the lack of any type of investigation that irks most people. I mean there's plenty of scope within the legislation for the fraud squad or revenue commissioner to get involved. Falsifying company accounts and fiddling expenses have lead to plenty of joe soap's being brought before the 'man'.
We also have the C.A.B. who as far as I can tell have powers that could be used against some individuals involved.
However Garda HQ are failing to direct these vechiles available to them in a more proactive manner.

cursai

When I was young I had a sick budgie. Its head was falling off. I went to the vet to get it fixed. The vet couldn't fix its loose head. I couldn't understand why not.
All vets are budgie killers.

MagicSean

JRant wrote: »

What I don't want to keep hearing is "oh, it's a difficult job, pays crap, blah blah". This is a non runner for two good reasons. They are fully aware of what they sign up for and to suggest otherwise does the individual involved a huge disservice. The pay is plenty good, as it is not only the salary that must be taken into account but also the pension recieved plus if there not happy with it they can leave.

No Garda is on the same wage structure as they were when they signed up. There has been a minimum of 20% cut from net pay. Perhaps there are some that may not have joined if they knew they'd take such massive pay cuts.

And no Garda joins up knowing the full extent of what they will have to do. It's not possible. Sure if you have a family member in the organisation you might have some war stories but that won't prepare you for the stuff you'll have to face or do.

If every Garda who was not happy with the way they were treated and the abuse they have to put up with left then there would be nobody in the organisation, and nobody would join.

JRant

cursai wrote: »

When I was young I had a sick budgie. Its head was falling off. I went to the vet to get it fixed. The vet couldn't fix its loose head. I couldn't understand why not.
All vets are budgie killers.

That sir is an ex-budgie

JRant

MagicSean wrote: »

JRant wrote: »

What I don't want to keep hearing is "oh, it's a difficult job, pays crap, blah blah". This is a non runner for two good reasons. They are fully aware of what they sign up for and to suggest otherwise does the individual involved a huge disservice. The pay is plenty good, as it is not only the salary that must be taken into account but also the pension recieved plus if there not happy with it they can leave.

No Garda is on the same wage structure as they were when they signed up. There has been a minimum of 20% cut from net pay. Perhaps there are some that may not have joined if they knew they'd take such massive pay cuts.

And no Garda joins up knowing the full extent of what they will have to do. It's not possible. Sure if you have a family member in the organisation you might have some war stories but that won't prepare you for the stuff you'll have to face or do.

If every Garda who was not happy with the way they were treated and the abuse they have to put up with left then there would be nobody in the organisation, and nobody would join.

Biggest reduction in pay comes from reduced overtime. USC is a cut on everyones pay, 7% increased pension contribution will be repaid with a hell of a lot of interest attached. If there not happy with the renumeration then they are more than free to see what their skill base will pay elsewhere.
Nobody would join? Now come on, over 400,000 people out of work and you think there wouldn't be a massive queue for new recruits if the opportunity arose!
I'm no Garda but I'd have a very good idea of what the job intails. You would have to be either incredibly naive or dumb not to.
You don't have to be a fireman to know that it's a dangerous job, cutting bodies from car crashes, pulling burning bodies from a fire etc.

Fozzie Bear

To start I'll declare my conflict of interests here. My brother and several of my friends, neighbours and people I know are Gardai.

Secondly I normally just don't bother posting on these types of bashing threads because its about as effective as picking up mercury with a fork. People have entrenched views about the Gardai and what they should or shouldn't do regardless of the what the law says, specific case curcumstances, the pathetic resources they are given and the courts system in this country.

Its just easier to assume Gardai are all corrupt, lazy and don't give a toss about the public or their jobs despite 1000's of crimes being detected and solved every year. But no its the one case where they don't turn up on time or solve a crime to the satisfaction of an individual that's focused on in forums like this and ipso facto they are lazy, useless etc etc etc.....

The OP asked some questions/made points and I'll try to answer them but this is the only post I'm putting in this thread.

Musiconomist wrote: »

[*]They havent arrested most of the bankers/politicians who have acted improperly or corruptly

Is that down to the "corrupt" Gardai or political influence? It's all good and well to say they should kick in their front door and drag them off to Mountjoy. But without the political will to do so this will not happen. Its just the way of the world. To say otherwise is simply deluded. Its not the Gardai fault. Do you think they, their friends and families are not suffering just the same as the rest of us? Do you not think they would like nothing more then to be unleashed on those people who ruined us??

Musiconomist wrote: »

[*]They dont overly mind baton-charging protesters

What protestors specifically?
The Shell to Sea crowd? Have you been down there and heard and seen what these "protestors" do?
The Students last year who tried to storm the dept of Education? Should they have opened the doors to them? Its nice to sit on the side lines or watch on TV and tut tut at the Gardai because they defend themselves of other people and their property, i.e. do their job.....

Musiconomist wrote: »

[*]They took a long time to respond to a call when our house was broken in, and then didnt take prints. (The "There's very little chance of catching him." attitude)

One of the Gardai I know, his district covers an area of almost 100 square miles with one functioning squad car. If they get two call outs which one do they attend first? Or if they are already at a call and another comes in do they drop what they are doing and race off to the second call? Its a no win situation for them. For christ sake a Garda had to be driven to a robbery scene by the victim in Donegal a few weeks ago because there was no squad car at all.

As for no prints. Thats done by a crime scene specialist not the ordinary Garda who turns up at your door. He is not going to whip out a roll of sellotape and start dusting with talcom powder from the bathroom. What happens if there is a CSI guys who is off duty or is covering another district or at another crime scene? The Gardai get slated by joe public is what. Is it really there fault? Are they are sitting in the barracks scratching their balls or actually trying to do an impossible job with piss poor equipment and man power.

Musiconomist wrote: »

[*]A girl was attacked recently at my local train station (the 3rd in 4 years), yet they havent notified the community or made requests for information. This one really annoyed me, as I thought it would be common sense to do that, and could be preventative.

Again you are assuming they have the man power and resources to do all that. In an ideal world they would. It will be investigated no doubt but maybe not in a high profile way that you would like. It depends too on the attacks really. Were they all the same type? Sexual? Physical? Mugging? Drunken rows? Scum bags fighting? Which type would you expend all your meagre resources on? What happens when those resources are focued on that one crime and someone else gets attacked or mugged somewhere else? Do they forget about the first case and move on? They have to pick their battles I'm afraid. That or they are all just lazy and don't give a fock. Which do you think is more likely?

Musiconomist wrote: »

[*]That guard who got a slap on the wrist for making the rape joke. I hate that "closed ranks" mentality

As someone already said it was a doctored tape by the "protestors" down there. What was said was completely and utterly taken out of context and blown out of all proportion by sections of the media, the usual taking heads and of course the "protestors" for propaganda purposes. If there was a case to answer the Ombudsman would have seen to it. Ask the Gardai in Waterford who were jailed earlier in the year about the Ombudsman fearlessness in charging them when needs be.

Musiconomist wrote: »

[*]The whole Catholic church thing

What thing? Child abuse? I don't know what exactly they have done/not done here?

Musiconomist wrote: »

[*]I also suggested that if they were not satisfied with the judicial system, it would make sense (and be a bold statement) if the guards were to march for judicial reform

Thats just a silly and lazy comment to make. They cannot legally march/strike or otherwise for judicial reform. Thats the politicians job.


I would suggest if you know or are friends with a Garda to sit down with them over a pint and ask they to tell you about a typical day in their job. Sure there are some lazy ass holes, corrupt and power tripping types in the Job but 99% of they are tyring to do an honest job of it.

laoch na mona

yes guards should display a higher moral with the bankers and such
problem is the only issue ive ever heard a guard complain about is their pay


that said they do a **** job and if the went after bankers they'd probably get fired.
the department limits their ability to do their job and plenty of them seem lazy.

beating protesters should stop but guards have a long history of treating people the govt don't like like **** look at frank ryan for example he and his associates were regularly detained for no reason by special branch men

mayotom

Musiconomist wrote: »

[*]They havent arrested most of the bankers/politicians who have acted improperly or corruptly

Our previous government have made the law to complex for them to simply arrest and charge these criminals.

Musiconomist wrote: »

[*]They dont overly mind baton-charging protesters

to be fair most of these protestor's are only out for trouble and this is mild compared to most police forces worldwide.


Most of what you have mentioned is due to a weak judicial system, where the police have their hands tied.

I have heard of so many cases where the Gardai have put criminals/animals away and then the Judicial system fails and this animals roam the streets again and kill and rape and rob again and again.
There have been a number of cases in recent years when people have been let out on bail despite police protest and they have gone on to commit murder.

Do the Guards have a tough job?? YES

Valetta

JRant wrote: »

My opinion would be that it's the lack of any type of investigation that irks most people. I mean there's plenty of scope within the legislation for the fraud squad or revenue commissioner to get involved. Falsifying company accounts and fiddling expenses have lead to plenty of joe soap's being brought before the 'man'.
We also have the C.A.B. who as far as I can tell have powers that could be used against some individuals involved.
However Garda HQ are failing to direct these vechiles available to them in a more proactive manner.

I'm intrigued.

How do you know all this?

laoch na mona

mayotom wrote: »

to be fair most of these protestor's are only out for trouble

bull**** they want to make a difference was martin luther king looking for trouble or the civil rights protests in the north

CreepingDeath

Musiconomist wrote: »

Bertie Ahern
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0323/breaking1.html

I asked you to tell me what crime they committed, not to name a politician.
A very expensive tribunal tried to find evidence of his alleged corruption, but could only comment that he was being "untruthful".

Musiconomist wrote: »

Welcome to 1984

From your naivety I doubt you were born in 1984.
Baton charges are only used in extreme cases of civil disobedience and disruption.
Members of the public have no right to sit in the middle of O'Connell Street or block a business indefinitely, there are limits.
Actually I'm surprised "Occupy Dame Street" lasted as long as it did.

Musiconomist wrote: »

So a rape isnt serious anymore? Because there were no notices around the crime scene or train station. I've looked. If I had seen one, I wouldnt have posted.

You don't have all the facts on that specific case, neither do I.
There's probably CC TV footage from the station.

Also there's plenty of times on the news/tv where "Gardai are appealling for witnesses", they have a press office for that.

Musiconomist wrote: »

Read the Murphy report. Even with this excuse, it doesnt justify moving a priest from one diocese to another.

How many decades are you going back in the past?
Your angry post is about todays Gardai, not from decades ago.

Musiconomist wrote: »

Ok, so they're either not following procedures or are not getting sufficient evidence for the DPP to bring these people to court.

Who are "these people" and what evidence do you think they missed?
You're making general claims.

If you're talking about the politicians, they're not likely to have a notebook detailing each bribe they took, how much and from whom.
If you're talking about the priest abuse cases, again, what do you think they can prove in some cases that may only have come to light maybe 20 years after the abuse?

No, count me out, I'm dismissing your uninformed and unrealistic opinions.

mayotom

laoch na mona wrote: »

bull**** they want to make a difference was martin luther king looking for trouble or the civil rights protests in the north

You are missing the point, there is always room for protest, however there are plenty of idiots who join these protest and often they don't even know what the protest is for, these are the people who are just there hoping for trouble where they can take advantage by getting a swipe at the Gardai or looting etc...

you can't compare MLK to the yobbos who have gotten involved in the riots like the O'Connell street protest a few years ago

JRant

Valetta wrote: »

JRant wrote: »

My opinion would be that it's the lack of any type of investigation that irks most people. I mean there's plenty of scope within the legislation for the fraud squad or revenue commissioner to get involved. Falsifying company accounts and fiddling expenses have lead to plenty of joe soap's being brought before the 'man'.
We also have the C.A.B. who as far as I can tell have powers that could be used against some individuals involved.
However Garda HQ are failing to direct these vechiles available to them in a more proactive manner.

I'm intrigued.

How do you know all this?

Well, I read.
7billion used by Anglo, procured from INBS to cook the books.
Numerous TD's found to be abusing expenses or using public funds for purposes other than what intended for.
50,000 'won on the horses', CAB can go after monies/assets gained in an unlawful manner, in this case blantant bribery with the burden of proof placed on the accused to prove where the money came from.

reprazant

JRant wrote: »

Well, I read.
7billion used by Anglo, procured from INBS to cook the books.
Numerous TD's found to be abusing expenses or using public funds for purposes other than what intended for.
50,000 'won on the horses', CAB can go after monies/assets gained in an unlawful manner, in this case blantant bribery with the burden of proof placed on the accused to prove where the money came from.

There is an ongoing garda investigation into this and it was IL&P who lent Anglo the money, not INBS.

In relation to the TD expenses, as far as I know, these are investigated by the Oireachtas, not the gardai though I might be wrong on that.

As for Bertie, there was a very long, very expensive tribunal into his dealings that was unable to prove anything. Not sure is CAB would be able to do anything else.

Valetta

JRant wrote: »

Well, I read.
7billion used by Anglo, procured from INBS to cook the books.
Numerous TD's found to be abusing expenses or using public funds for purposes other than what intended for.
50,000 'won on the horses', CAB can go after monies/assets gained in an unlawful manner, in this case blantant bribery with the burden of proof placed on the accused to prove where the money came from.

Originally Posted by JRant
My opinion would be that it's the lack of any type of investigation that irks most people. I mean there's plenty of scope within the legislation for the fraud squad or revenue commissioner to get involved. Falsifying company accounts and fiddling expenses have lead to plenty of joe soap's being brought before the 'man'.
We also have the C.A.B. who as far as I can tell have powers that could be used against some individuals involved.
However Garda HQ are failing to direct these vechiles available to them in a more proactive manner.

My question was:

How do you know there was "a lack of any type of investigation"?

How do you know that the fraud squad or the revenue commissioners were not involved?

How do you know that "Garda HQ are failing to direct these vehicles available to them in a proactive manner?

starviewadams

Their fake Twitter thing is funny enough if that counts?

https://twitter.com/UnGarda

FatherLen

cursai wrote: »

When I was young I had a sick budgie. Its head was falling off. I went to the vet to get it fixed. The vet couldn't fix its loose head. I couldn't understand why not.
All vets are budgie killers.

pretty bird... pretty bird....

mayotom

Does anybody know how many vehicles the Gardai have.

By comparison in the district I currently live in where the population is 130,000 we have the following:

Policia Local: 45 Cars, 38 Motorcycles, 8 horses, Bicycle back ups.
Policia National: 28 Cars, 20 Motorcycles, 2 buses, one Armoured Car, one Helicopter
Guada Civil: 25 cars, 36 Motorcycles, 2 Boats, Buses and air cover

That would be an equivilent population to County Mayo, which at anytime has access to less than 10 vehicles..

Yamanoto

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

Sure there are some lazy ass holes, corrupt and power tripping types in the Job but 99% of they are tyring to do an honest job of it.

Your 99% figure strikes me as a little generous.

The majority of dealings I've had with rank and file gardai has left me underwhelmed. That may not be a broad representative sample by which to gain real insight, but it's all I've got to go on.

The Gardai still appear to me a closed shop with an us against them mentality - where accountability is treated with fear and suspicion, internally scoffed at and tacitly resisted. This is opinion only, based on what I've read and on discussions with friends in the Law.

Decades of being left to run their own show has inevitably had an influence on the forces culture, which will prove difficult to change. I think funding for the force should always be a priority but I also think it's in need of fairly extensive reform.

samk1

Valetta wrote: »

The Gardai acomplish hundres and thousands of things every month/year.

You just don't get to hear about them. Doesn't mean they dont happen.

You have given two examples of your personal experiences that were negative.

How can you possibly draw any conclusions from those?

I have had more negitive experiences then positive with the gardi and i feel the majority of people would say the same.

Valetta

JRant wrote: »

Well, I read.
7billion used by Anglo, procured from INBS to cook the books.
Numerous TD's found to be abusing expenses or using public funds for purposes other than what intended for.
50,000 'won on the horses', CAB can go after monies/assets gained in an unlawful manner, in this case blantant bribery with the burden of proof placed on the accused to prove where the money came from.

samk1 wrote: »

I have had more negitive experiences then positive with the gardi and i feel the majority of people would say the same.

That is because it is a natural tendancy to complain vocally about something you are not happy with, but not be vocal about a positive or neutral experience.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Say what you will about the Gardaí, they're extremely good when it comes to solving murders/deaths.

OK, but if your house gets burgled while your family is in bed somebody's gonna have to get their throat slit in their sleep before the guards get off their fat supermacs eating holes and put a genuine investigation into place. Why does it seem like every crime has to end in a trail of corpses before ANY work whatsoever goes into it?

A few years ago someone I know got robbed in the street. He goes into the station to report it. Sits in an office for a while until two detectives who are clearly in a foul temper and in no mood for doing anything resembling police work come in. One of them flicks through a book of mugshots, stops half way through, and says "no, there's no one answering that description in here" without ever actually showing it to the victim.

Good cop then leaves the room and let's bad cop take over the "investigation". He accuses the victim of being drunk and says he's sick of people thinking they might be entitled to some sort of public compensation so they make stuff up that never happened. Victim says he left the station feeling lucky not to have been arrested himself.

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

As for no prints. Thats done by a crime scene specialist not the ordinary Garda who turns up at your door. Are they are sitting in the barracks scratching their balls or actually trying to do an impossible job with piss poor equipment and man power.



That or they are all just lazy and don't give a fock. Which do you think is more likely?

I used to live in a building with six flats over three floors. One Sunday afternoon the two flats on the top floor got burgled while the two lads living there were out. Now, I'm not talking about forensics or taking fingerprints or what guard's job it is to perform which task, but two guards turn up to "investigate" and neither of them bothered to ask any of the neighbors if they'd seen or heard anything.

I just fail to see how what you describe as "piss poor equipment and man power" comes into play here. Two guards couldn't knock on four goddamned doors in one building between them to ask "were you home between the hours of three and six?". There's NO WAY you are gonna convince me that that has anything to do over work, understaffing, poor resources, etc. So yeah, as a matter of fact I think it is more likely they're all "just lazy and couldn't give a fook".

I'm not trying to tar them all with the same brush or anything but there are simply way too many people coming on here with way too many stories for me to believe this is just a small minority of guards. Sure, I accept that not everyone understands that not every guard is capable of taking fingerprints, but when he's also not capable of knocking on your next door neighbors door to see if they heard anything for anything less than murder is just appalling.

Augmerson

I'll admit, I am not mad about the Gardai but if I was in charge of the country, I'd give them a hell of a lot more resources. Considering the Gardai are policing the country without firearms (we may be one of a handful of countries in Europe that don't equip our force with weapons) and still do a fairly decent job, I think that is quite an accomplishment.

I think the Gardai should get more resources. I think the Defence Forces should be used to assist them more often in certain situations, like deterring drug running operations at ports and airports, road blocks. I think all of the available Gardai should be freed up from office jobs and allowed to do what they are really good at, we could make up a Civilian Aid section of the Gardai that processes paperwork etc, and I think that drugs like Marijuana should be made legal so that the Gardai don't have to waste their time and the Courts time with arrests over possession of small quantities for personal use.

JRant

reprazant wrote: »

JRant wrote: »

Well, I read.
7billion used by Anglo, procured from INBS to cook the books.
Numerous TD's found to be abusing expenses or using public funds for purposes other than what intended for.
50,000 'won on the horses', CAB can go after monies/assets gained in an unlawful manner, in this case blantant bribery with the burden of proof placed on the accused to prove where the money came from.

There is an ongoing garda investigation into this and it was IL&P who lent Anglo the money, not INBS.

In relation to the TD expenses, as far as I know, these are investigated by the Oireachtas, not the gardai though I might be wrong on that.

As for Bertie, there was a very long, very expensive tribunal into his dealings that was unable to prove anything. Not sure is CAB would be able to do anything else.

Posting in work so don't have time to proof read my comment but you are correct it was IL&P thanks, my bad.
The garda investigation was a long time in being pursued and gave plenty of time for stuff to "go missing".

Wrt TD's even if the Oireachtas were to investigate them I fail to see how that exempts them from the law of the land.

Did the tribunal not have specific terms of reference and as such would differ from a criminal investigation as such. CAB can take assets off people if they suspect it has been gained in a non legal manner and have done to great success.

bill buchanan

It's hard for Joe Public to know how successful the gardai are, or aren't.

But we can just go on our experiences. I've not had good experiences with them. Been a victim of crime a few times and they never did anything about it.

Never found them friendly either. Always seem to be rude to people, though I did deal with one really sound garda a while ago.

So, the opinon that my family and I have of the gardai are that they are rude and incompetent. But it's hard to know if that's the case throughout the country.

Regardless of how good they are at their job, I think a LOT of people would agree that their attitude could do with a makeover.

JRant

Valetta wrote: »

JRant wrote: »

Well, I read.
7billion used by Anglo, procured from INBS to cook the books.
Numerous TD's found to be abusing expenses or using public funds for purposes other than what intended for.
50,000 'won on the horses', CAB can go after monies/assets gained in an unlawful manner, in this case blantant bribery with the burden of proof placed on the accused to prove where the money came from.

samk1 wrote: »

I have had more negitive experiences then positive with the gardi and i feel the majority of people would say the same.

That is because it is a natural tendancy to complain vocally about something you are not happy with, but not be vocal about a positive or neutral experience.

As you say it is human nature after all.
To be honest I don't want to come across like they're all useless as I know that is not the truth.
What I would like to see it that we are all subject to the same laws and treatment and this clearly isn't the case at the moment.

samk1

Valetta wrote: »

That is because it is a natural tendancy to complain vocally about something you are not happy with, but not be vocal about a positive or neutral experience.

or because i had a batton trown at me when i was no older then 10!and ive more stories that may not be as bad but would make you question who apply and are graduated as gardi.

I no it not all garda either ive a friend whos a gardi. But the sad fact in my own experiences that the gardi ive met / delt with should be wearing clown suits.

JRant

bill buchanan wrote: »

It's hard for Joe Public to know how successful the gardai are, or aren't.

But we can just go on our experiences. I've not had good experiences with them. Been a victim of crime a few times and they never did anything about it.

Never found them friendly either. Always seem to be rude to people, though I did deal with one really sound garda a while ago.

So, the opinon that my family and I have of the gardai are that they are rude and incompetent. But it's hard to know if that's the case throughout the country.

Regardless of how good they are at their job, I think a LOT of people would agree that their attitude could do with a makeover.

As far as I can see their attitude depends on the area they are called to.
If I talked to any client the way I've been spoken to by a lot of garda I'd be out the door before my feet hit the ground and rightly so.
Manners cost nothing and would go a long way to earning an awful lot more respect, that goes for every walk of life.

Mr Benevolent

I've had far more positive than negative experiences with the Gardai. Never a problem, frankly.

Fukuyama

humbert wrote: »

I wonder how many of the people defending the gardai have been the victim of a crime and needed them.

I had a reasonably positive attitude to them until I needed them and since that time I find it difficult not to regard them with contempt.

I have to accept it's bad to judge a whole organisation based on one personal experience but it's consistent with reports from other people.

I think things are improving as there seems to be at least a growing accountability for misconduct.

Armed robbery in work.

Gardaí responded within five minutes.

Knew the guy and his door was put in that evening.

CreepingDeath

samk1 wrote: »

I have had more negitive experiences then positive with the gardi and i feel the majority of people would say the same.

I completely disagree.

In my life I was robbed/attacked twice and the Gardai caught the guys both times.

A flat of mine was broken into many, many years ago.
Not much they could do, anything robbed was probably offloaded/sold by the time I got home from work. if you don't catch them in the act, there's not much they can do.

My sister was saved by an unmarked garda car from being dragged into a car and abducted/raped by two immigrants in Rathmines one night.
Later they found date rape drugs and ecstasy in their flat.
(One got 5 years for the drugs offenses, the driver of the car was an illegal immigrant and deported immediately)

I was caught speeding in my old "boy racer" Celica car doing 103kph in a 80kph zone. They asked if I knew the speed limit, I said 80kph.
They didn't give me a lecture or anything.
I didn't bullshit them or give them grief... they gave back the same amount of respect as they got.
Yes, I got the penalty points, but it was a fair cop.

If you give them attitude you'll get it back.

Fukuyama

laoch na mona wrote: »

beating protesters should stop but guards have a long history of treating people the govt don't like like **** look at frank ryan for example he and his associates were regularly detained for no reason by special branch men

They were members of the IRA.

I suppose special branch should have ignored them

Monty Burnz

Musiconomist wrote: »

My argument went something like this:

• They havent arrested most of the bankers/politicians who have acted improperly or corruptly
• They dont overly mind baton-charging protesters
• They took a long time to respond to a call when our house was broken in, and then didnt take prints. (The "There's very little chance of catching him." attitude)
• A girl was attacked recently at my local train station (the 3rd in 4 years), yet they havent notified the community or made requests for information. This one really annoyed me, as I thought it would be common sense to do that, and could be preventative.
• That guard who got a slap on the wrist for making the rape joke. I hate that "closed ranks" mentality
• The whole Catholic church thing

1. They can't arrest people who haven't broken the law. The idiots running the banks may have acted corruptly, but it's hard to prove. Most of the problem was caused by stupidity.
2. Baton charges are sometimes necessary.
3. Yeah, sometimes they don't seem to care very much. I've experienced similar.
4. That's perhaps more of a community issue.
5. The 'rape joke' wasn't a joke about rape, or a threat to rape - it was a private conversation where they were making fun of a protester who made the ridiculous claim that the guards might rape someone they were trying to detain, which is plainly ridiculous. The whole 'it was a joke about rape' was just disinformation from the S2S people who want the Gardaí to look bad.

MaxSteele

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmumHQM7vmA :pac:

I live in quite a rough area and have to say the garda are fine and dandy as long they don't have to deal with you on a regular basis.

I went to school with some of the worst scum and useless tossers. I wouldn't blame the guards for returning the favour of treating the c**ts like dirt.

Some people think they're untouchable because of where and who they grew up with.

laoch na mona

Dean0088 wrote: »

They were members of the IRA.

I suppose special branch should have ignored them

you cant go detain everyone who disagrees with you

bill buchanan

CreepingDeath wrote: »

If you give them attitude you'll get it back.

I've heard this a lot, and disagree. I grew up in one of the "rougher" parts of Dublin and they were always rude to us. My parents always told us to respect people like teacher and the gardai etc, so I was never a person to give them any grief and have no criminal record. But I got stopped and searched "randomly" as a teenager twice and they were incredibly rude to me. Friends have had the same experience. I know some of the scum where I grew up hated them because of the job they did, but there were a lot of good people there who were just treated badly by the gardai because of where they were from. And crime always seem less of a priority when we were in trouble. Therefore, we, as a community, didn't really like them.

I guess the argument is all about perception. But i'd guess that's the perception a lot of people in working class areas would have of the gardai.

steddyeddy

él statutorio wrote: »

You don't get respect, you earn it.

There are very few Gardaí who I'd respect and the ones that I do are all approaching retirement. IMHO a lot of the younger Gardaí don't give a toss.

Funnily enough I would put money on the new recruits having slightly different training to the old recruits.

CreepingDeath

bill buchanan wrote: »

But I got stopped and searched "randomly" as a teenager twice and they were incredibly rude to me.

How about as an adult?

I wouldn't expect them to be polite to teenagers, putting a bit of fear of the law into teenagers isn't a bad thing.
Especially if ye were part of a group hanging around somewhere where anti-social behavior was reported/complained about by the residents.

JRant

bill buchanan wrote: »

CreepingDeath wrote: »

If you give them attitude you'll get it back.

I've heard this a lot, and disagree. I grew up in one of the "rougher" parts of Dublin and they were always rude to us. My parents always told us to respect people like teacher and the gardai etc, so I was never a person to give them any grief and have no criminal record. But I got stopped and searched "randomly" as a teenager twice and they were incredibly rude to me. Friends have had the same experience. I know some of the scum where I grew up hated them because of the job they did, but there were a lot of good people there who were just treated badly by the gardai because of where they were from. And crime always seem less of a priority when we were in trouble. Therefore, we, as a community, didn't really like them.

I guess the argument is all about perception. But i'd guess that's the perception a lot of people in working class areas would have of the gardai.

Couldn't agree more, it would seem to be a common theme in certain areas.

bill buchanan

CreepingDeath wrote: »

How about as an adult?

I wouldn't expect them to be polite to teenagers, putting a bit of fear of the law into teenagers isn't a bad thing.
Especially if ye were part of a group hanging around somewhere where anti-social behavior was reported/complained about by the residents.

As an adult tehy've been rude to me, too. But in a less aggressive way.

But it's madness, IMHO, to suggest it's OK for gardai to be rude to teenagers.

I can think of one occasion where there were a group of us sitting at a wall. A guy legged it past us and ran down street A. 1 min later the gardai ran around the corner asking where he went. My mate pointed them down street B because they treated him like crap when they searched him.

I'm still close to those friends, and all our opinion of the gardai would be low enough. A lot of that probably has to do with our formative years.

JRant

CreepingDeath wrote: »

bill buchanan wrote: »

But I got stopped and searched "randomly" as a teenager twice and they were incredibly rude to me.

How about as an adult?

I wouldn't expect them to be polite to teenagers, putting a bit of fear of the law into teenagers isn't a bad thing.
Especially if ye were part of a group hanging around somewhere where anti-social behavior was reported/complained about by the residents.

I expect them to be polite to everyone until they have a good reason not to be.
If you had a child and they were spoken to or treated in such a way I'm sure you'd be happy! And before you mention it, if they are acting the goat then they should be dealt with but from my experience it's more a case of everyone from an area being tarred with the same brush.

bill buchanan

JRant wrote: »

I expect them to be polite to everyone until they have a good reason not to be.
If you had a child and they were spoken to or treated in such a way I'm sure you'd be happy! And before you mention it, if they are acting the goat then they should be dealt with but from my experience it's more a case of everyone from an area being tarred with the same brush.

Exactly, just like all the best teachers you remember were the ones who showed you some respect and treated yo liek an adult. I still have nbo respect for the oens who just roared and screamed, but fondly remembered the ones who actually earned respect.