The Gardai - Accomplishments to date

MagicSean

JRant wrote: »

So a teenager can make a simple mistake like that and you'd happily call them a criminal for the rest of their lives! How do you know the young man wasn't remorseful about it?

You keep calling it a mistake but it was done deliberately and an attempt was made to justify it afterwards. That's not a mistake.

JRant wrote: »

Your just making stuff up at this stage. How do you know what he said to his mates and what they believed? Sure anybody could make stuff up like that to suit whatever argument they wanted.

I heard him.

JRant wrote: »

Show me where I said I had contempt for the Garda. You'll be a long time trying because it never happened. I've merely pointed out how I've seen both sides to the force, good & bad, and am of the opinion that it depends on the area you grow up in.

I wasn'y actually referring to you personally.

JRant wrote: »

It's the Garda and people like you that view individuals as 'default criminals' because of where they live that needs a serious attitude overhaul.

Where have I viewed people as default criminals? I never have. I judge people on the choices they make.

JRant

MagicSean wrote: »

JRant wrote: »

So a teenager can make a simple mistake like that and you'd happily call them a criminal for the rest of their lives! How do you know the young man wasn't remorseful about it?

You keep calling it a mistake but it was done deliberately and an attempt was made to justify it afterwards. That's not a mistake.

JRant wrote: »

Your just making stuff up at this stage. How do you know what he said to his mates and what they believed? Sure anybody could make stuff up like that to suit whatever argument they wanted.

I heard him.

JRant wrote: »

Show me where I said I had contempt for the Garda. You'll be a long time trying because it never happened. I've merely pointed out how I've seen both sides to the force, good & bad, and am of the opinion that it depends on the area you grow up in.

I wasn'y actually referring to you personally.

JRant wrote: »

It's the Garda and people like you that view individuals as 'default criminals' because of where they live that needs a serious attitude overhaul.

Where have I viewed people as default criminals? I never have. I judge people on the choices they make.

We'll have to agree on disagreeing in this matter then.

Apologies so, it wasn't clear from the original post that this was the case. Do you know what he was charged with? That, to me, has more bearing than what he told his mates. If he's going around trying to break in to peoples homes he's not somebody worth listening to.

It certainly seemed as if you were referring to me. I would agree that some people can act in such a manner. What is needed though is not just to say these people are wrong but to look at the underlying issues and see how they can be rectified. It's a shame that this divide between Gardai and people exists in certain areas. I don't think it would take to much effort from both sides to quickly change this.

whiskey_bar

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Another Guard bashing thread on AH.

Time for....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbh6My_bhnU

boards.ie is overwhelmingly gushing in praise of AGS , valid threads which ask hard questions about the force are flippantly dismissed as a bash thread when they clearly are not

whiskey_bar

mikemac1 wrote: »

Like many companies management seem to be obsessed with stats and desperate for promotion

Alan Shatter's house was burgled in March, immediate response, technical staff sent there, a garda left to watch it and detectives picking up people the same day

Sure the Mininster needs security and a top response as it's a security threat

I got burgled the same weekend, intruder found in the house, still waiting for a letter or phonecall or anything. Followed up twice, nobody will reply to me.
Have a cigarette lighter with prints, offered to bring it to the station but told wait for your garda, where is my garda as he doesn't return phone calls.


Some senior garda probably got a promotion for their work on Shatters house

Go to Limerick and break a window in Castletroy and then break a window on Michael Noonan's house and I'm certain there will be a different reaction from the local management

how willing guards are to act often depends on who is complaining and who is being complained about , i also agree with those earlier posters who claimed that a persons adress will have an impact on how they are treated , guards like judges are very class and occupation conscious when it comes to approaching an individual or a case , history is littered with examples of where AGS have shown deference to power , from the church to other areas

cardinal sean brady is roundly condemned now for not having gone to the guards back in the seventies when he was a lowly priest , in reality it would not have made a blind bit of difference as the guards would have done nothing bar report him to the bishop , quee a one way ticket to nigeria for the present day cardinal from cavan

steddyeddy

In other countries there is a culture of questioning certain institutions with the aim of trying to improve them. In Ireland when you criticise the church, gaurds for valid reasons you must have been criminal or rofl "a softie".

steddyeddy

whiskey_bar wrote: »

how willing guards are to act often depends on who is complaining and who is being complained about , i also agree with those earlier posters who claimed that a persons adress will have an impact on how they are treated , guards like judges are very class and occupation conscious when it comes to approaching an individual or a case , history is littered with examples of where AGS have shown deference to power , from the church to other areas

cardinal sean brady is roundly condemned now for not having gone to the guards back in the seventies when he was a lowly priest , in reality it would not have made a blind bit of difference as the guards would have done nothing bar report him to the bishop , quee a one way ticket to nigeria for the present day cardinal from cavan

Indeed as BBC'S newsnight pointed out the gaurds in Ireland played a big part in covering up child abuse. So according to people here newsnight must have been in trouble with the gaurds before. That doesnt mean I dislike indivual gaurds but I dont give ablanket respect to the gaurds in general. Blanket respect lets institutions get away with murder (or child rape).

whiskey_bar

steddyeddy wrote: »

In other countries there is a culture of questioning certain institutions with the aim of trying to improve them. In Ireland when you criticise the church, gaurds for valid reasons you must have been criminal or rofl "a softie".

most people never have any dealings with AGS and therefore form their opinions based on idealised cliches , i.e , the guards like superman are always unconditionally wholesome and clean so whoever had a negative experience is by defintion a troublemaker , the reality is that the guards is very political in nature and by virtue of the fact that you may have at one time had a run in with someone who happened to have contacts in high places , you quickly find yourself at odds with AGS, like i said before , guards are extremley deferential to power , even small town power

MagicSean

I really don't see the point or relevance in examples from 4 decades ago. Even a Garda just starting out back then would be retired by now. The laws have changed as have many other things. Any kind of legitimate criticism should really be based on incidents in the last decade.

whiskey_bar

MagicSean wrote: »

I really don't see the point or relevance in examples from 4 decades ago. Even a Garda just starting out back then would be retired by now. The laws have changed as have many other things. Any kind of legitimate criticism should really be based on incidents in the last decade.

i didnt realise that it was left to you to set the parameters of the discussion ?

MagicSean

whiskey_bar wrote: »

i didnt realise that it was left to you to set the parameters of the discussion ?

What are you on about?

whiskey_bar

MagicSean wrote: »

What are you on about?

no need to be ratty , your not on duty now , nowhere does it say that past cultural practices in AGS are not to be discussed , besides , while AGS may have cast off their allegiance to the church , they still exhibit many examples of hat tipping to various high status individuals and institutions

Mod:
Re-reg Banned.

MagicSean

whiskey_bar wrote: »

no need to be ratty , your not on duty now , nowhere does it say that past cultural practices in AGS are not to be discussed , besides , while AGS may have cast off their allegiance to the church , they still exhibit many examples of hat tipping to various high status individuals and institutions

Nothing wrong with discussing past cultural practices or incidents. Fill your boots. Live in the past all you like. You evidently joined boards for that purpose. But they are irrelevant when it comes to criticism of the current organisation. Different staff, training, legislation and accountability.

Irish Musician

I think going to work every day and not knowing whether you will be abused beaten or killed before the end of the day while you are trying to protect the community and still getting a pasting from the general public while retaining a sense of humor. Thats a good achievement.

RATM

humbert wrote: »

I wonder how many of the people defending the gardai have been the victim of a crime and needed them.

I had a reasonably positive attitude to them until I needed them and since that time I find it difficult not to regard them with contempt.

I have to accept it's bad to judge a whole organisation based on one personal experience but it's consistent with reports from other people.

I think things are improving as there seems to be at least a growing accountability for misconduct.

This.

I have respect for the guards but lately I get a feeling that there are certain crimes they either don't want to try solve or just can't be bothered. Had my moped stolen on no less than three occasions from the same spot- each time I rang back up to ask how the investigation was going, the reposone I got kept getting was that there was nothing they could do. The moped got stolen again and again by (according to my own enquiries) the same person. When told about this they still didn't do anything. In other words my transport to work was just a sitting duck at any given time for whatever scumbag wanted to steal it.

Proven methods of community policing seem to be lost on the younger generations of guards. There is a well known and respected theory in criminology about how a criminal weighs up whether or not to commit a crime. In doing so their thought processes do not factor into account the potential amount of jail time- instead they assesses whether or not they think they'll get away with it. It then follows that if you arrest a guilty criminal and question them but haven't enough evidence to charge them it is still a victory over crime because you've marked their card and they will think much harder about doing the same crime again. But in the case of my moped they just didn't seem to get this- if they had of talked to the guy after the first theft then the chances of thefts no.2 and no.3 occuring would have been considerably less and also saved me thousands of euro in repair bills and a ton of heartbreak.

But the guards don't seem to operate in this manner, crimes against property in Ireland seem to me to be way way down their list of priorities and the general feeling across the force seems to be one of ambivalence.

Another proven method of policing is maintaining a visible presence on the streets. On foot and on foot alone- it is a psychological thing and also beneficial to community policing- get to know the busy bodys in the community and suddenly you have a flow of intelligence on both crimes committed and ones that might be planned. But in my area and others I have observed they are rarely seen out and about on foot. If a criminal never sees guards patroling an area on foot soon they begin to think the guards are never around and that they can get away with this burglary. In the 1980's and 1990's they all did beats on the streets and people felt safer. But then the Celtic Tiger came along and they were given more cars than ever before and now they never seem to get out of them- even in Temple Bar, a pedestriansed area- they patrol it by car, often making tourists get out of their way in an area that has been designated as car free. But instead what we have every weekend night is a couple of male guards crusing around Temple Bar with their windows fully up looking like they are kerb crawling- why don't they just get out and walk- it is much more likely people will approach them with intelligence on suspected pickpockets, etc if they are on foot than if they are in the car. I get the distinct impression that for some guards the public are a hindrance that they don't want to deal with.

SocSocPol

They managed to allow a group of criminal thugs dressed in paramilitary uniforms and acting like stormtroopers to march through North Dublin yesterday, after they had fired a volley of shots outside a dead scumbags house.
Grat accomplishment for the boys in blue.

MagicSean

SocSocPol wrote: »

They managed to allow a group of criminal thugs dressed in paramilitary uniforms and acting like stormtroopers to march through North Dublin yesterday, after they had fired a volley of shots outside a dead scumbags house.
Grat accomplishment for the boys in blue.

Wearing combats is not a crime as far as I am aware.

SocSocPol

MagicSean wrote: »

Wearing combats is not a crime as far as I am aware.

Firing volleys of shots certainly is.

MagicSean

SocSocPol wrote: »

Firing volleys of shots certainly is.

True but what evidence would their be to connect the shots to the people in uniform. It's not like there'd be any witnesses to point them out. And you are assuming that the same people wore the uniforms each time when they actually changed a number of times.

Colmustard

2 points on my licence:(

I can't believe the force is not monitored by modern policing and emergency response computers. I bet their unions don't want them. The Garde are a bit like the nurses, good at PR.

But it is a disciplined force, apart from my mate, who is not, one of those PS people who should have been sacked years ago, but he was probably on another sickie for that occasion.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Colmustard wrote: »

2 points on my licence:(

I can't believe the force is not monitored by modern policing and emergency response computers. I bet their unions don't want them. The Garde are a bit like the nurses, good at PR.

.

Bit pointless spending money on computer monitoring if the guards don't even have basic transport systems. Sometime late this year or very early next year the majority of Garda cars are going to hit 300k Kim's and be retired from use and they have no budget for new cars as the government don't think it's important enough. The garda budget will be cut again in the next budget so things will get worse.

Iwannahurl

RATM wrote: »

This.

I have respect for the guards but lately I get a feeling that there are certain crimes they either don't want to try solve or just can't be bothered. Had my moped stolen on no less than three occasions from the same spot- each time I rang back up to ask how the investigation was going, the reposone I got kept getting was that there was nothing they could do. The moped got stolen again and again by (according to my own enquiries) the same person. When told about this they still didn't do anything. In other words my transport to work was just a sitting duck at any given time for whatever scumbag wanted to steal it.

Proven methods of community policing seem to be lost on the younger generations of guards. There is a well known and respected theory in criminology about how a criminal weighs up whether or not to commit a crime. In doing so their thought processes do not factor into account the potential amount of jail time- instead they assesses whether or not they think they'll get away with it. It then follows that if you arrest a guilty criminal and question them but haven't enough evidence to charge them it is still a victory over crime because you've marked their card and they will think much harder about doing the same crime again. But in the case of my moped they just didn't seem to get this- if they had of talked to the guy after the first theft then the chances of thefts no.2 and no.3 occuring would have been considerably less and also saved me thousands of euro in repair bills and a ton of heartbreak.

But the guards don't seem to operate in this manner, crimes against property in Ireland seem to me to be way way down their list of priorities and the general feeling across the force seems to be one of ambivalence.

Another proven method of policing is maintaining a visible presence on the streets. On foot and on foot alone- it is a psychological thing and also beneficial to community policing- get to know the busy bodys in the community and suddenly you have a flow of intelligence on both crimes committed and ones that might be planned. But in my area and others I have observed they are rarely seen out and about on foot. If a criminal never sees guards patroling an area on foot soon they begin to think the guards are never around and that they can get away with this burglary. In the 1980's and 1990's they all did beats on the streets and people felt safer. But then the Celtic Tiger came along and they were given more cars than ever before and now they never seem to get out of them- even in Temple Bar, a pedestriansed area- they patrol it by car, often making tourists get out of their way in an area that has been designated as car free. But instead what we have every weekend night is a couple of male guards crusing around Temple Bar with their windows fully up looking like they are kerb crawling- why don't they just get out and walk- it is much more likely people will approach them with intelligence on suspected pickpockets, etc if they are on foot than if they are in the car. I get the distinct impression that for some guards the public are a hindrance that they don't want to deal with.

I think you've made some reasonable points in a thoughful manner.

But try posting this thread in the Emergency Services forum and you will see the 'closing of ranks' someone referred to earlier.

There is a lot of disillusion and dissatisfaction among the AGS these days due to severe cutbacks (some in the ES forum talk about "not caring anymore"), which is understandable to some degree, but in my opinion/experience the public as nuisance syndrome preceded the economic collapse.

It's only anecdotal of course, but over the last six or seven years I have become aware of numerous instances where AGS members have simply shown no interest whatsoever in enforcing the law or exerting their authority, even when they had the time and opportunity to do so.

That last point is a key one: failure to take action is now being blamed on a lack of personnel and resources, but in my experience this does not explain every instance of non-response.

For the record, my particular area of interest currently is road safety, eg speeding and other violations of road traffic law that affect vulnerable road users (eg pedestrians, cyclists, disabled people, children etc). Getting AGS to respond is like trying to get blood from a stone.

RATM

SocSocPol wrote: »

They managed to allow a group of criminal thugs dressed in paramilitary uniforms and acting like stormtroopers to march through North Dublin yesterday, after they had fired a volley of shots outside a dead scumbags house.
Grat accomplishment for the boys in blue.

Broadsheet.ie have an interesting report here
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/09/10/glock-paper-scissors/

On Saturday known paramilitaries were allowed to fire shots in the air while the Garda were present
On Sunday peaceful protesters of the bondholders & bailout were prevented by Gardai from handing out leaflets outlining their position on the bailout

Bullets are fine, political literature isn't was the message

shanered

It is a bit of a disgrace really!