Cuts in action!

bdoo

http://m.rte.ie/news/2012/0906/school-sends-pupils-home-early-due-to-budget-cuts.html

Some neck from the department....

They have expresses concern that some schools have chosen to deprive students of tuition time!

That is rich. If they'd let schools dump cspe and sphe they could probably cope.

Cuts to resource hours, increases in ptr especially the sneakily introduced lcvp one and the cut in guidance are the reasons for this.

I hope people don't start to blame the inflexibility of the teachers as they put it. The system has ticked over on gooswill for the past four years, the cracks are only starting to show now.

I'm the past schools could respond to cuts in allocation when numbers fell etc by reducing the school week this is not an option now seemingly.

We're always told to do the maths - we borrow x we spend y, we need to cut.

Schools are allocated x hours, they can only deliver x hours.

I wouldn't be so annoyed if the dept didn't say what they did, what other choice do schools have Other than to deprive students?

We know who is responsible for deprivation, and none of them are in schools

gaeilgebeo

bdoo wrote: »

http://m.rte.ie/news/2012/0906/school-sends-pupils-home-early-due-to-budget-cuts.html

Some neck from the department....

They have expresses concern that some schools have chosen to deprive students of tuition time!

That is rich. If they'd let schools dump cspe and sphe they could probably cope.

Cuts to resource hours, increases in ptr especially the sneakily introduced lcvp one and the cut in guidance are the reasons for this.

I hope people don't start to blame the inflexibility of the teachers as they put it. The system has ticked over on gooswill for the past four years, the cracks are only starting to show now.

I'm the past schools could respond to cuts in allocation when numbers fell etc by reducing the school week this is not an option now seemingly.

We're always told to do the maths - we borrow x we spend y, we need to cut.

Schools are allocated x hours, they can only deliver x hours.

I wouldn't be so annoyed if the dept didn't say what they did, what other choice do schools have Other than to deprive students?

We know who is responsible for deprivation, and none of them are in schools

I agree with everything you say bar "dumping" SPHE and CSPE.
Both subjects are important for Junior Cert students.
Maybe the syllabi aren't perfect but the subjects themselves are.

rainbowtrout

bdoo wrote: »

http://m.rte.ie/news/2012/0906/school-sends-pupils-home-early-due-to-budget-cuts.html

Some neck from the department....

They have expresses concern that some schools have chosen to deprive students of tuition time!

That is rich. If they'd let schools dump cspe and sphe they could probably cope.

Cuts to resource hours, increases in ptr especially the sneakily introduced lcvp one and the cut in guidance are the reasons for this.

I hope people don't start to blame the inflexibility of the teachers as they put it. The system has ticked over on gooswill for the past four years, the cracks are only starting to show now.

I'm the past schools could respond to cuts in allocation when numbers fell etc by reducing the school week this is not an option now seemingly.

We're always told to do the maths - we borrow x we spend y, we need to cut.

Schools are allocated x hours, they can only deliver x hours.

I wouldn't be so annoyed if the dept didn't say what they did, what other choice do schools have Other than to deprive students?

We know who is responsible for deprivation, and none of them are in schools

The minimum number of class contact time a student is supposed to receive is 28 hours a week. 3 years ago our students had 30 hours a week tuition time. Then we had to cut back to 28. I suspect the school in the article is the same and has gone under the 28 hour minimum.

I also suspect that the school had a strong union and teachers have refused to teach classes with more than the recommended number of students, so merging classes and going over the maximum has not occurred. I'd also assume that management are also of the same opinion. It also mentions that they feel guidance counselling hours are necessary. Not saying they are not, but it implies that they haven't cut the hours for GC even though it is now coming out of the main allocation where most other schools probably have. So guidance is taking up some of the allocation that would have gone to mainstream subjects. So they've cut hours on the timetable to put pressure on the Dept to give them an extra allocation. They probably will too now that it has become a topic in the media.

bdoo

rainbowtrout wrote: »

bdoo wrote: »

http://m.rte.ie/news/2012/0906/school-sends-pupils-home-early-due-to-budget-cuts.html

Some neck from the department....

They have expresses concern that some schools have chosen to deprive students of tuition time!

That is rich. If they'd let schools dump cspe and sphe they could probably cope.

Cuts to resource hours, increases in ptr especially the sneakily introduced lcvp one and the cut in guidance are the reasons for this.

I hope people don't start to blame the inflexibility of the teachers as they put it. The system has ticked over on gooswill for the past four years, the cracks are only starting to show now.

I'm the past schools could respond to cuts in allocation when numbers fell etc by reducing the school week this is not an option now seemingly.

We're always told to do the maths - we borrow x we spend y, we need to cut.

Schools are allocated x hours, they can only deliver x hours.

I wouldn't be so annoyed if the dept didn't say what they did, what other choice do schools have Other than to deprive students?

We know who is responsible for deprivation, and none of them are in schools

The minimum number of class contact time a student is supposed to receive is 28 hours a week. 3 years ago our students had 30 hours a week tuition time. Then we had to cut back to 28. I suspect the school in the article is the same and has gone under the 28 hour minimum.

I also suspect that the school had a strong union and teachers have refused to teach classes with more than the recommended number of students, so merging classes and going over the maximum has not occurred. I'd also assume that management are also of the same opinion. It also mentions that they feel guidance counselling hours are necessary. Not saying they are not, but it implies that they haven't cut the hours for GC even though it is now coming out of the main allocation where most other schools probably have. So guidance is taking up some of the allocation that would have gone to mainstream subjects. So they've cut hours on the timetable to put pressure on the Dept to give them an extra allocation. They probably will too now that it has become a topic in the media.

Agree totally. We should be doing the same. Why would they pay for something if they can squeeze it out for free.

The truth is that in most schools teachers are 'voluntarily' doing tons of extra work. When they aren't this is what happens. I've said it on here before that the sooner the effects of the cuts are seen the better.

At the minute it looks like we didn't need the two sna's we lost or our assistant principal and special duties posts. It's very hard to get this message across and very difficult to be hardline when you see first hand the impact on students and the school. But I think we need to be cruel to be kind.

TheDriver

Only issue is that the rest of us can "cope" whilst this school is throwing the baby out with the bath water and downing tools. All that will happen is inspectors will flood the place, all staff will have to shape up to get good reports and cause more work anyways for themselves.

Fizzical

TheDriver wrote: »

Only issue is that the rest of us can "cope" whilst this school is throwing the baby out with the bath water and downing tools. All that will happen is inspectors will flood the place, all staff will have to shape up to get good reports and cause more work anyways for themselves.

Not fair.

The staff haven't "downed tools", they are still working hard. The rest of us are not "coping" - I certainly am not and I know I'm not alone. I'm sick after one full week back to school from overwork and lack of sleep. I'll hide out, mostly in my bed, for the weekend and be back on Monday for more - that's not "coping".

And what's with the comment "all staff will have to shape up"? That's offensive and typical management-speak.

Well done to the school (or schools) for doing what they think is right.

bdoo

Fizzical wrote: »

TheDriver wrote: »

Only issue is that the rest of us can "cope" whilst this school is throwing the baby out with the bath water and downing tools. All that will happen is inspectors will flood the place, all staff will have to shape up to get good reports and cause more work anyways for themselves.

Not fair.

The staff haven't "downed tools", they are still working hard. The rest of us are not "coping" - I certainly am not and I know I'm not alone. I'm sick after one full week back to school from overwork and lack of sleep. I'll hide out, mostly in my bed, for the weekend and be back on Monday for more - that's not "coping".

And what's with the comment "all staff will have to shape up"? That's offensive and typical management-speak.

Well done to the school (or schools) for doing what they think is right.

I think inspectors will have to take what they get. They can only judge the standard of teaching and learning against the backdrop of savage cuts and stretched teachers.

Not to take this into account can only bring the whole system of inspection into disrepute. If it's not working because of cutbacks how can anything else be blamed.

As for shaping up, I'm doing my best atm, if I get notice of an inspection I will produce my folder and teach my classes. I have no intention of putting on a show.

milosh

I can only speak for myself but some of us are getting off lightly with the cutbacks relative to others. I have had 33 classes per week for the past 9 years teaching so no change there. My class sizes are slightly bigger but nothing that will massively increase my workload. I still coach one of the sports teams so my day is not made any longer with meetings than it was pre Croke Park, I'm just spending more time at planning meetings than coaching sessions. I genuinely do not feel any more or less tired than I would after a first week back pre cut backs.

I suppose the staff who have to do much more on a day to day basis like the special needs teachers, SNAs and Guidance Councillors must be noticing a big difference. Managing reduced hours must be very difficult and stressful for management also. At the risk of getting grief off lots of teachers, I would suggest many mainstream teachers have seen little substantial change in working conditions over the past few years.

rainbowtrout

TheDriver wrote: »

Only issue is that the rest of us can "cope" whilst this school is throwing the baby out with the bath water and downing tools. All that will happen is inspectors will flood the place, all staff will have to shape up to get good reports and cause more work anyways for themselves.

That's very unfair. It would appear that the teachers have refused to take over the recommended number in their classes, not that they are not working. And this has been backed by management as ultimately it is management that decide the timetable, have timetabled guidance hours, kept class sizes at a reasonable level and are sending students home. Can't see how you can make that comment about the teaching staff.

milosh wrote: »

I can only speak for myself but some of us are getting off lightly with the cutbacks relative to others. I have had 33 classes per week for the past 9 years teaching so no change there. My class sizes are slightly bigger but nothing that will massively increase my workload. I still coach one of the sports teams so my day is not made any longer with meetings than it was pre Croke Park, I'm just spending more time at planning meetings than coaching sessions. I genuinely do not feel any more or less tired than I would after a first week back pre cut backs.

I suppose the staff who have to do much more on a day to day basis like the special needs teachers, SNAs and Guidance Councillors must be noticing a big difference. Managing reduced hours must be very difficult and stressful for management also. At the risk of getting grief off lots of teachers, I would suggest many mainstream teachers have seen little substantial change in working conditions over the past few years.

Also very unfair. We had three classes of Irish in second year last year. Now we only have two in third year. About 30 in each. The teacher taking the weaker class told me the first day they all landed in to her there was war in her class because students were in there that we complaining that they wanted to be in the other class to do higher level and was she doing higher level, when her class were 90% ordinary and foundation level. From what I understand there are substantial differences between the higher and ordinary level course not to mind adding foundation to that mix. Add behavioural problems, learning difficulties and a classroom where there isn't room to swing a mouse let alone a cat because it wasn't designed for 30 students and you'll find mainstream teachers don't have it so easy. That's only one class in the school.

bdoo

rainbowtrout wrote: »

TheDriver wrote: »

Only issue is that the rest of us can "cope" whilst this school is throwing the baby out with the bath water and downing tools. All that will happen is inspectors will flood the place, all staff will have to shape up to get good reports and cause more work anyways for themselves.

That's very unfair. It would appear that the teachers have refused to take over the recommended number in their classes, not that they are not working. And this has been backed by management as ultimately it is management that decide the timetable, have timetabled guidance hours, kept class sizes at a reasonable level and are sending students home. Can't see how you can make that comment about the teaching staff.

milosh wrote: »

I can only speak for myself but some of us are getting off lightly with the cutbacks relative to others. I have had 33 classes per week for the past 9 years teaching so no change there. My class sizes are slightly bigger but nothing that will massively increase my workload. I still coach one of the sports teams so my day is not made any longer with meetings than it was pre Croke Park, I'm just spending more time at planning meetings than coaching sessions. I genuinely do not feel any more or less tired than I would after a first week back pre cut backs.

I suppose the staff who have to do much more on a day to day basis like the special needs teachers, SNAs and Guidance Councillors must be noticing a big difference. Managing reduced hours must be very difficult and stressful for management also. At the risk of getting grief off lots of teachers, I would suggest many mainstream teachers have seen little substantial change in working conditions over the past few years.

Also very unfair. We had three classes of Irish in second year last year. Now we only have two in third year. About 30 in each. The teacher taking the weaker class told me the first day they all landed in to her there was war in her class because students were in there that we complaining that they wanted to be in the other class to do higher level and was she doing higher level, when her class were 90% ordinary and foundation level. From what I understand there are substantial differences between the higher and ordinary level course not to mind adding foundation to that mix. Add behavioural problems, learning difficulties and a classroom where there isn't room to swing a mouse let alone a cat because it wasn't designed for 30 students and you'll find mainstream teachers don't have it so easy. That's only one class in the school.

PLUS

The loss of posts of responsibility and the overall cut in ptr means there are less teachers on the ground with time to do management work. This is being passed down the line to teachers to do voluntarily.

We have less teachers to do s&s so now we have to cover twice the area at our times to make sure there is adequate supervision. There's not. If this doesn't affect you fair play.