What do you know about windows?

okmqaz42

My house has old single glazed windows in timber frames and I want to try and have them replaced before the winter rolls around again but I know very little about windows and searching the forum is showing info that is helpful but a tad confusing.

I am starting from scratch here and my plan is to try and get about 4 quotes for the work. In the hope that I can get all companies to quote for the same spec what should I be looking for?

Any help or advice will be appreciated.

martinn123

okmqaz42 wrote: »

My house has old single glazed windows in timber frames and I want to try and have them replaced before the winter rolls around again but I know very little about windows and searching the forum is showing info that is helpful but a tad confusing.

I am starting from scratch here and my plan is to try and get about 4 quotes for the work. In the hope that I can get all companies to quote for the same spec what should I be looking for?

Any help or advice will be appreciated.

First question, what do you want the windows to be made from.

PVC, available in white, light oak, mahogany, rosewood, some Co's will do Red, Blue, Green etc.

Timber, softwood, hardwood, the colour will depend on the woodstain you use.

Alu-clad, a mixture of Timber on the inside, and Aluminium on the outside, loads of colours for the Alum available.

Aluminium, difficult to source for Domestic, most Co's are interested in Large Scale Industrial projects.

Next glazing, Double or Triple glazed, Argon filled units, low 'E' or K Glass ( same thing). Insulation is measure by 'U' value, the lower the number the better, ( i.e 1 is better than 2 )

So perhaps to start the quote ball rolling, look for PVC, white, Double Glazed, U value of 1.1 see how that suits your budget, if you haven't broken the Bank, plenty more to be spent on better features and products.

okmqaz42

Thanks Martin,
From a maintenance POV I was going to look at PVC.
White or Light oak.
Double or Triple glazed is confusing me a bit - I read somewhere that the north facing windows should be triple and south facing double so we get a benefit from any solar gains - it is a standard 3 bed house built in the mid eighties so not sure if this is relevant to non passive homes. None of the openings would be considered large.
From the little I have read on this Argon filled units, K Glass seems to be a good idea.

martinn123

With triple glazing it often comes down to cost.
As you say there is an advantage in Triple on a North facing wall, as there is no sunlight to get heat gain.

maybe get some quotes for a mixture of Double/Triple and see how the additional cost compares.

engineermike

Hi,
A suggestion I've put to clients in the past is - run through the set up / types / triple glazed / double glaze etc. with one of the larger national window companies. They will likely email you a quote - then copy and paste the spec (minus the price) & then email your spec to 4, 5 or 6 companies.

Make sure you have clarity on finishing of the ope's internally & externally and also things like debris removal etc.

I recently priced up 13 windows and doors and the variance in price was astounding, and it was straight forward supply & delivery only.
PM me if you want recommends.
Mike F

okmqaz42

Thanks Mike, good idea at least I will be comparing like with like.

I know it is pretty straight forward replacing single glazed with double glazed windows but for triple glazed does the window surrounds need to be modified to accommodate the extra depth of the frames?

Thanks for all the feedback so far.

sinnerboy

By window surrounds you mean the internal jambs / head and cill ?

You will a need a plasterer to patch up the head and jambs and a carpenter to replace the cill boards in any event , no matter what. It is sometimes called "making good". Redecoration ( painting ) is usually not part of "making good" unless expressly stated. Some window companies will include making good in their price , some will include as an option , some will not mention it at all. You must be alert to this.

Triple glazing insulates better and admits less solar gain compared to double glazing. Balanced over the year of weather it is better to have better insulation i.e. all things being equal I would opt for triple glazing every time.

Ask the various window companies you approach to give you options for
double glazing
triple glazing
making good included / excluded

engineermike

Hi The difference in triple glaze / double glaze:
(sample sizing - some manufactures spec. differs)
Triple Glazed window Option, 36mm Unit - 0.8 U-Value
Double Glazed window Option, 28mm Unit - 1.3 U-Value

8mm difference, the uPVC frame has a deeper profile than your standard older wooden window, but no real change will likely be required to the existing ope's.

The Triple glaze option, just get the price for the north face or north facing elevation of your home, you want the solar gain on the south / south east / south west aspect of the home.
I'd personally get a bog standard double glaze price for all windows and doors, and ask for the difference in price to have the windows / doors on the north face in Triple glaze.
Mike F

okmqaz42

sinnerboy wrote: »

By window surrounds you mean the internal jambs / head and cill ?

Showing my ignorance here Sinnerboy that is exactly what I meant...

martinn123

sinnerboy wrote: »

By window surrounds you mean the internal jambs / head and cill ?

You will a need a plasterer to patch up the head and jambs and a carpenter to replace the cill boards in any event , no matter what. It is sometimes called "making good". Redecoration ( painting ) is usually not part of "making good" unless expressly stated.

Ask the various window companies you approach to give you options for
double glazing
triple glazing
making good included / excluded

Most, if not all, will include plastering of the internal reveals, as the new frames are unlikely to be the same width, as the old ones coming out,
All will fit new PVc window boards, to match the window frames and remove the existing, timber boards, be sure that is part of the quote,
If you have tiles, up to the windows say in a bathroom, expect some to be damaged, replacements may be hard to match.

Redecoration is never included as you will want to let the new plaster dry out before painting.

If the old windows have to be removed, outwards, there will be some damage to the external reveals, again make sure repairs here are included.

BarneyMc

martinn123 wrote: »

Most, if not all, will include plastering of the internal reveals, as the new frames are unlikely to be the same width, as the old ones coming out,
All will fit new PVc window boards, to match the window frames

I got a quote recently and the supplier said that it would not be necessary to remove the window boards. The new window frames are white PVC but the old window boards are wooden. I was a bit weary that they wouldn't match too well?

Also if the window boards are being replaced then is there anything that can be done to make the new window board-wall join good and draft proof?

martinn123

BarneyMc wrote: »

martinn123 wrote: »

Most, if not all, will include plastering of the internal reveals, as the new frames are unlikely to be the same width, as the old ones coming out,
All will fit new PVc window boards, to match the window frames

I got a quote recently and the supplier said that it would not be necessary to remove the window boards. The new window frames are white PVC but the old window boards are wooden. I was a bit weary that they wouldn't match too well?

Also if the window boards are being replaced then is there anything that can be done to make the new window board-wall join good and draft proof?

Some fitters will leave the old timber boards in place, and put an ''L'' Pvc board over it, you have plenty of frame on the new windows to do this.

The new boards should be cut to fit the width tightly, come out past the top of the ledge, and go around the reveal by an inch or so on either side, then the plaster will be put on to cover up any gaps up to the frame, and down to the board, basically the new plaster will make it '' good and draft proof''. A bead of mastic between the board and the frame, and you are all set.

brophis

I'm of the same view as Sinnerboy in that I'd rather have triple glazed windows on a dull dark cold winters day when solar gain is zero. Has anyone run the numbers on this?
It cost me €2000 more (€15000) to go triple glazed, one of my main motivations was the better insulation and higher surface temperature to give that extra comfort factor.

BryanF

martinn123 wrote: »

Most, if not all, will include plastering of the internal reveals,

you'd think so, but not in my experience. it is definitely something the OP would need to specify up-front

BryanF

engineermike wrote: »

The Triple glaze option, just get the price for the north face or north facing elevation of your home, you want the solar gain on the south / south east / south west aspect of the home.

i have to disagree with your assumption here, using your example of double at 1.3 and triple at .08 thats over a 1/3 more efficiency were taking about!

for the lay person:
the 1.3w/m2k double glazed window equates to roughly a brick with 20mm of bog standard expanded polystyrene (EPS) on it
the .8w/m2k triple will be more like 40mm

that's the difference

good windows are expensive, air-tightness is a factor as is orientation for solar gains etc.

As per sinnerboys comments above, and in my experience of doing the calc's on solar gains v window U-value - triple is most definitely a better option and there are different coatings/ spec's for giving ample solar gain factor (solar G)

also (@ the OP) dont confuse solar gain with light - you wont notice the difference in light quality. what you will notice is the thermal difference when standing next to a double v triple glazed window when its January outside.

engineermike

(sample sizing - some manufactures spec. differs)

okmqaz42

Thanks for all the information, I picked up a couple of brochures over the weekend and at least now I know hat I am looking out for.
Cheers.