Fees For Being "Stupid" - Inspired by O Leary

Skylinehead

Abi wrote: »

Reminds me of the boards rule - attack the post, not the poster. Everyone knows that 'this post is stupid' means 'you're fúcking stupid'.

I think they're not wrong for charging her extra for this, because it was her OWN mistake. While I understand he's a very out spoken person who calls a spade a spade, well it just seems a bit unprofessional. You wouldn't see a small business owner calling or insinuating that customer was stupid (certainly not to their face or publicly) as it would damage business. He has no reason to resort to this in my opinion, they were in the right in the first place.

I think he's having a go because she went public with her claims, and he feels that he needs to point out that she's completely in the wrong (she was). His language was very OTT, but that's how Michael O'Leary rolls.

Abi

Einhard wrote: »

Ok, I'm gonna come out and say it: it's wrong to charge a family £380 after a holiday because someone made the mistake of forgetting to print out the boarding cards. I agree that there should be some charge to deter everyone from doing it, but that kind of fee can destory a family holiday. Such a massive charge was unnecessary, and it's a bit depressing to hear people agree with it simply because it was in the T&C's. Is it now the way that any and all mistakes should be punished in as harsh a manner as one can get away with? Because that's pretty shitty IMO.

They are there for a reason. Much in the same way that there are charters for all of the forums on boards. You could hop and skip through every thread in AH and call everyone bollixes and cúnts, but you won't be doing it for long. These measures have to be put in place or it's a free for all.

Tipsy McSwagger

I hate that expression 'a gesture of goodwill'.

Abi

Skylinehead wrote: »

I think he's having a go because she went public with her claims, and he feels that he needs to point out that she's completely in the wrong (she was).

Oh I agree she was in the wrong.

His language was very OTT, but that's how Michael O'Leary rolls.

I know he's like that, but I still don't think it was really that needed. Like I said, I think if he was running a much smaller gig he mightn't be as mouthy. But he's not, he's billy big bollix, so he says what he likes.

Chuck Stone

I agree with the 'charge' in principle but I think it should be €60 to use the printing facility rather than €60 per card. As it is it punishes families a lot more than individuals.

From a public relations point of view I think it would be good if Ryanair offered the out-of-pocket woman flights to the value of what she was fined as a goodwill gesture.

seven_eleven

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Dear Mick

please take charge of the HSE

kind regards

SEPT 23 1989

Dear christ no.

MOC88

Well he won't be recieving any more letters of the like and gets a rake of publicity - ryanair haven't been in the news enough recently is my guess. He probably gets a rake of these kind of letters and doesn't respond to them

seligehgit

I think he was dead right!:D

Abi

seven_eleven wrote: »

Dear christ no.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Dear Mick

please take charge of the HSE

kind regards

SEPT 23 1989

Despite what I think of him insinuating that this broad was an idiot, this ^ might not a bad idea. Also social welfare. His no bullshít attitude would come in pretty handy with chancers and those abusing the system.

hardCopy

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Imagine an airline which treated it's customers nicely but at the same cost of Ryanair minus the pathetic attempts at trying to swindle you. They wouldn't even need to shortchange you as everyone would fly with them, who wants the stress and bad experiences of rude staff, absurd luggage procedures and being treated like cattle? If there are any would be entrepeneurs out there please set up an airline like this and run Ryanair out of business.

There have been many many such airlines. Most have gone out of business, because despite what people say on the internet or in the pub, few customers will pay extra for what you've outlined.

I've heard great reports about Cityjet's service, they fly out of a great location in central London with very short check-in and security queues. Unfortunately they're way out of my budget so I've never flown with them.

faceman

I'm normally in the pro O'Leary camp but this time round I'm not

The whole "tough, it's in the T&C's" argument is face palm stuff. If it was in the T&C's that if you forget to print your boarding card you'll get beaten up, would that be ok?
Just because it's in the T&C'S doesn't make something fair or right.

Also the argument that having people reprint boarding cards will hold up and delay flights is crap too. It didn't hold up flights before the policy was introduced, why would it hold up flights if the policy was scrapped?

Also the cost of additional staff is nonsense too. Take Dublin airport for example. If you don't have your boarding card you don't go to the check in desk. You go to what I call the "Uh oh desk". It's the ryanair desk (thats always manned) you have to go to if you have to pay for anything like overweight bags etc before you check in.

While nothing Ryanair have done in this instance is illegal, it is highly unethical in my opinion. If they have an unethical practice in what has become an issue in the big domain, what other areas are their their question marks over?

Make no mistake, the charge is there not for anyone's benefit except the shareholders.

hardCopy

Abi wrote: »

Despite what I think of him insinuating that this broad was an idiot, this ^ might not a bad idea. Also social welfare. His no bullshít attitude would come in pretty handy with chancers and those abusing the system.

I can fly Ryanair for a few hours at a time, but I don't think I'd want to be in one of their hospitals for a week.

The Idyll Race

hardCopy wrote: »

There have been many many such airlines. Most have gone out of business, because despite what people say on the internet or in the pub, few customers will pay extra for what you've outlined.

I've heard great reports about Cityjet's service, they fly out of a great location in central London with very short check-in and security queues. Unfortunately they're way out of my budget so I've never flown with them.

And that is the nub of the problem. If you have to fly with FR, you are O'Leary's bitch and he knows it. Perhaps one day he will get a random boot in the balls, but until then he will remain cock of the walk.

smash

I find O'Leary comical but I hate Ryanair and their policies. I know so many people who have been screwed over by them and made check through hand luggage that was within the size and weight limits. I also know the staff get paid commission for every bag they make people check through and that's why they do it. Then when you go to complain, they tell you to phone the national consumer agency. ****!

seven_eleven

Abi wrote: »

Despite what I think of him insinuating that this broad was an idiot, this ^ might not a bad idea. Also social welfare. His no bullshít attitude would come in pretty handy with chancers and those abusing the system.

Just think about it. **** customer service, crammed into a tiny plastic seat with no recline, you dont get any food/services at all without paying extra for them, you have to listen to constant crap advertisements and people trying to sell scratch cards to you, overworked staff and horrible hours (because doctors and hospital staff dont work long enough as it is?).

Whats that you want some water lying in your hospital bed? thats €2
A&E would have no sturctured system, everyone would just have to try barge there way through and get a spot with the consulting nurse first.

hardCopy

faceman wrote: »

I'm normally in the pro O'Leary camp but this time round I'm not

The whole "tough, it's in the T&C's" argument is face palm stuff. If it was in the T&C's that if you forget to print your boarding card you'll get beaten up, would that be ok?
Just because it's in the T&C'S doesn't make something fair or right.

Also the argument that having people reprint boarding cards will hold up and delay flights is crap too. It didn't hold up flights before the policy was introduced, why would it hold up flights if the policy was scrapped?

Also the cost of additional staff is nonsense too. Take Dublin airport for example. If you don't have your boarding card you don't go to the check in desk. You go to what I call the "Uh oh desk". It's the ryanair desk (thats always manned) you have to go to if you have to pay for anything like overweight bags etc before you check in.

While nothing Ryanair have done in this instance is illegal, it is highly unethical in my opinion. If they have an unethical practice in what has become an issue in the big domain, what other areas are their their question marks over?

Yes the desk is always manned, but what happens when you need additional staff at the uh-oh desks? You need additional space. I've never passed this desk without seeing a long queue, they are already at capacity even with this high charge, if the queue was any longer people would simply miss their flights. Although in Liverpool they have a better system where you buy a slip from a vending machine to pay for any extras and then bring it to the check-in desk.

faceman wrote: »

Make no mistake, the charge is there not for anyone's benefit except the shareholders.

Everything they do is for the benefit of shareholders, they're a public company, who else should they benefit?

fergalr

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Dear Mick
please take charge of the HSE

Abi wrote: »

Despite what I think of him insinuating that this broad was an idiot, this ^ might not a bad idea. Also social welfare. His no bullshít attitude would come in pretty handy with chancers and those abusing the system.

Do we want to build institutions which are run without compassion?

You want a Ryanair model applied to the health system?

What about telling people, "Oh, you didn't buy health insurance? Sorry, we aren't going to give you that life saving surgery, then. You should have bought the health insurance - did you not read the T&Cs?"

There are countries in the world that operate like that.

I'd like Ireland to move further away from that model, not closer to it.

I think its important to have institutions - including corporations, but especially state services - that are somewhat tolerant of mistakes, and have some level of compassion.

We all make mistakes. Do you want to live in a world where they are punished without empathy?

seligehgit

Can't understand people complaining re Ryanair,everybody knows what they are about.I love O Leary and his no nonsense airline.They are really cheap.I do not expect Ritz treatment,only ever bring carry on luggage.I'm aware that the majority of their airports are miles from city centres but heck they've super shuttle bus services.We all know what to expect re delays,boarding passes etc....I always print two.I had to head home after a flight was cancelled in Knock due to high winds,c'est la vie.Flew the next day.So if people really detest MOL and Ryanair do not fly with them and stop whinging when they simply implement the terms and conditions associated with their flights.

Abi

hardCopy wrote: »

Abi wrote: »

Despite what I think of him insinuating that this broad was an idiot, this ^ might not a bad idea. Also social welfare. His no bullshít attitude would come in pretty handy with chancers and those abusing the system.

I can fly Ryanair for a few hours at a time, but I don't think I'd want to be in one of their hospitals for a week.

I meant it from a cutting through bull sh1t approach.

smash

hardCopy wrote: »

Yes the desk is always manned, but what happens when you need additional staff at the uh-oh desks? You need additional space

AerLingus have a machine which scans your passport and prints out your ticket. In fact they have lots of these machines. Ryanair could easily install them at the airport for people to use. They could even charge a fiver a ticket and people would use them.

The Idyll Race

seligehgit wrote: »

Can't understand people complaining re Ryanair,everybody knows what they are about.I love O Leary and his no nonsense airline.They are really cheap.I do not expect Ritz treatment,only ever bring carry on luggage.I'm aware that the majority of their airports are miles from city centres but heck they've super shuttle bus services.We all know what to expect re delays,boarding passes etc....I always print two.I had to head home after a flight was cancelled in Knock due to high winds,c'est la vie.Flew the next day.So if people really detest MOL and Ryanair do not fly with them and stop whinging when they simply implement the terms and conditions associated with their flights.

Whinging. What a loaded little word it is, attempting to shut down viewpoints dissenting from your own.

If you don't like reading criticism of O'Leary, don't read it. It won't stop me and others thinking that he is an arrogant and thin skinned wee privileged shyte who despises his customers.

Daisy M

My friends father was flying with ryanair and he became ill, she said the way he was treated by them was amazing. The flight had to make a detour to the nearest airport, his companion was given transport to the hospital, help with arranging accomodation for the companion was also given, they rang to check on him numerous occasions and flights home when he recovered were complimentary. If you book a flight with ryanair and someone close to you dies you get a no quibble refund, I have read quiet a few posts in the travel forum confirming this.

smash

Daisy M wrote: »

My friends father was flying with ryanair and he became ill, she said the way he was treated by them was amazing. The flight had to make a detour to the nearest airport, his companion was given transport to the hospital, help with arranging accomodation for the companion was also given, they rang to check on him numerous occasions and flights home when he recovered were complimentary.

We'll they'd hardly want someone dying on their plane in fairness.

hardCopy

smash wrote: »

AerLingus have a machine which scans your passport and prints out your ticket. In fact they have lots of these machines. Ryanair could easily install them at the airport for people to use. They could even charge a fiver a ticket and people would use them.

I'd imagine they'd be there already if a fiver a ticket would cover the capital cost of installing them.

There are so many things they could do to improve their service but they won't do it if it affects their margins.

smash

hardCopy wrote: »

I'd imagine they'd be there already if a fiver a ticket would cover the capital cost of installing them.

There are so many things they could do to improve their service but they won't do it if it affects their margins.

Your second line is the reason they're not there. It's nothing to do with capital costs, it's to do with being able to charge so much more at the desk.

O'Leary's attitude is "We're cheap, so suck it up" which is a crap attitude to have towards those who are keeping your business afloat.

Hersheys

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I agree with the 'charge' in principle but I think it should be €60 to use the printing facility rather than €60 per card. As it is it punishes families a lot more than individuals.

From a public relations point of view I think it would be good if Ryanair offered the out-of-pocket woman flights to the value of what she was fined as a goodwill gesture.

He doesn't need the PR.

If he gave in & gave the woman back the money then you'd have numptys doing it the whole time.

Gandhi

RyanAir are not charging a fair price to cover their costs here, they are using a bureaucratic loophole to extort an exorbitant fee. It is not illegal, but it is crap customer service. I also don't see how this woman is "stupid". She made a simple mistake that anyone could have made. The rule is a cynical way to squeeze extra money out of stressed out travelers, and nothing more.

Having said that, I will credit RyanAir that they make no pretense about being anything other than bottom-feeders. They charge a bargain-basement price (in theory) and you get exactly what you pay for (if even that). One slight slip that any other airline would would forgive with a smile and a mouse-click, RyanAir pounce on you with glee. And when challenged on it, O'Leary's response is basically "Haven't you heard? We suck!"

swimming in a sea

i last flew ryanair about 7 years ago and up then i never had any problems, the only thing i find with Ryanair is they are a false economy, with their airport locations, if i want to fly to london i always go to Heathrow then jump on the tube and i can go to anywhere in london, better than paying £50 return to come from Luton or Stansted, but if it suited i'd have no problems with ryanair.

Just print out your boarding pass it's not hard.

smash

I think I'll open a small printing kiosk at Dublin airport beside the Ryanair desk and charge a euro per sheet.

Abi

smash wrote: »

I think I'll open a small printing kiosk at Dublin airport beside the Ryanair desk and charge a euro per sheet.

Imagine it... O'Leary would be laughing his hole off at the newest addition to the airport. People with their tickets here please, 'the idiot line is over there for the rest of you' :pac:

Higher

smash wrote: »

I think I'll open a small printing kiosk at Dublin airport beside the Ryanair desk and charge a euro per sheet.

Already printers there and as said you can't check in 3 hours before your flight.

Yawns

davet82 wrote: »

people are that price concious now a days that wouldnt happen imo

aer lingus have the same amount of staff at their counters and people dont miss flights or have massive queing, the same would be said for the other carriers

If people are that price conscious then they wouldn't let themselves get stung for an easily avoidable €60 charge I would have thought. I think you are giving idiots far greater credit than they deserve.

Aer Lingus do it as do a host of other carriers yes, but I find they are delayed more so than Ryanair. Coincidence?

Einhard

Abi wrote: »

They are there for a reason. Much in the same way that there are charters for all of the forums on boards. You could hop and skip through every thread in AH and call everyone bollixes and cúnts, but you won't be doing it for long. These measures have to be put in place or it's a free for all.

I agree that there should be some punitive sanction. I'm not arguing with that. I think most people would agree that, say, a maximum penalty of £100 would suffice, and not the £380 that this family has to pay. For many families, that's a pretty huge sanction, more than many people would pay on conviction for driving dangerously or public disorder, yet people seem to think it fits the transgression. It puzzles me. Are those who cheer Ryanair for imposing a charge almost equal to the average UK weekly wage? I think that's incredibly harsh, incredibly cold, and I just hope those supporting such a punitive sanction never, ever make mistakes in their own lives.

Skid

Einhard wrote: »

I just hope those supporting such a punitive sanction never, ever make mistakes in their own lives.

When I am travelling with Ryanair, I usually check and double check that I have done everything by the book

Einhard

Skid wrote: »

When I am travelling with Ryanair, I usually check and double check that I have done everything by the book

Fair enough, but say you made the simple mistake of not checking- would you not think a punishment equivalent to a week's wage is commensurate? I don't.

Skid

Einhard wrote: »

Fair enough, but say you made the simple mistake of not checking- would you not think a punishment equivalent to a week's wage is commensurate? I don't.

I wouldn't turn up to a flight without a Passport. Equally, I wouldn't turn up without a Boarding Pass.

mr kr0nik

Jesus, there's a lot of people in here who seem to like sticking it to the little person. I hope that none of you ever have the misfortune of mislaying/forgetting anything in future.

She was in the wrong here but being honest she probably would have learned the lesson paying EUR60 in total rather than per pass.

Michael O'Leary is a great business man and has revolutionised the airline industry. I'd just like to know how much Ryanair is making each year out of peoples misfortune/forgetfulness/stupidity. Probably enough to keep his racehorses trained and fed.

Reality_Check1

I love Michael O leary and his business plan. They offer to get you to your destination for next to nothing once you jump through hoops and play by their rules. They operate on the pretense that they will fcuk you up if you step outside the T&C's which is fair enough imo.

By the way dont feel too sorry for people who get stung at the airport like this. The so called "idiot tax" keeps flights cheap for the rest of us :cool:

efb

Idiot tax keeps flights cheap for the savvy

Red Alert

Fees are great for preventing time-wasters wasting everyone else's time. I would also add on:

€10 for use of the onboard toilet on flights under one hour.
€20 for those who do not put all their metals into their carry on bag prior to security.
€50 for those who do not have their liquids / laptop removed prior to security.
€50 for those whose bags have a prohibited item that needs to be removed.
€100 per extra child to discourage those travelling with more than 1 child per adult.
€200 for those without a printed boarding pass, or smartphone on which to show their boarding pass.

Einhard

Red Alert wrote: »

Fees are great for preventing time-wasters wasting everyone else's time. I would also add on:

€10 for use of the onboard toilet on flights under one hour.
€20 for those who do not put all their metals into their carry on bag prior to security.
€50 for those who do not have their liquids / laptop removed prior to security.
€50 for those whose bags have a prohibited item that needs to be removed.
€100 per extra child to discourage those travelling with more than 1 child per adult.
€200 for those without a printed boarding pass, or smartphone on which to show their boarding pass.

And €10,000 for not being Red Alert! :pac:

nyarlothothep

hardCopy wrote: »

There have been many many such airlines. Most have gone out of business, because despite what people say on the internet or in the pub, few customers will pay extra for what you've outlined.

I've heard great reports about Cityjet's service, they fly out of a great location in central London with very short check-in and security queues. Unfortunately they're way out of my budget so I've never flown with them.

Hmm this isn't what I mean. I was suggesting that if staff were more ameniable and not such blowhards in terms of sticking to procedure in absurd situations (with respect to some recently controversial case), in addition to having a booking system which wasn't filled with comically bad attempts to fool you of your money you may people flocking to that instead of Ryanair. Additionally if you had an airline that took a relatively liberal stance towards musicians, ie not having to pay to pay for an extra seat for your cello, guitar, violin etc but instead being able to bring it onboard you would already have the entire market of musicians as they (and I) absolutely hate the way airlines are so mule headed about musical instruments, especially Ryanair. I am simply suggesting that by not being dicks about flying such an airline would capture so much of the market as to outweigh losses based on not implementing fleecing policies like the online booking system, or charging musicians extra. By being nice to customers, they could attract more and more in a similar manner to a store which has a nice ambience which steals customers from other stores that treat their customers like dirt. The difference would principally be in the attitude. By and large any chance I get I fly with Aer Lingus, they provide virtually the same service as Ryanair but with less of the dickishness. If people like the latter, well each to their own.

Red Alert

Einhard wrote: »

I agree that there should be some punitive sanction. I'm not arguing with that. I think most people would agree that, say, a maximum penalty of £100 would suffice, and not the £380 that this family has to pay. For many families, that's a pretty huge sanction, more than many people would pay on conviction for driving dangerously or public disorder, yet people seem to think it fits the transgression. It puzzles me. Are those who cheer Ryanair for imposing a charge almost equal to the average UK weekly wage? I think that's incredibly harsh, incredibly cold, and I just hope those supporting such a punitive sanction never, ever make mistakes in their own lives.

You're also free not to fly with them...

Einhard

Skid wrote: »

I wouldn't turn up to a flight without a Passport. Equally, I wouldn't turn up without a Boarding Pass.

efb wrote: »

Idiot tax keeps flights cheap for the savvy

Savvy people make mistakes too. It's wonderful though, to see that so many people on AH have yet to make mistakes in their lives. Hats off.

Einhard

Red Alert wrote: »

You're also free not to fly with them...

Nothing to do with my point that a £380 sanction is unnecessarily punitive.

As another poster stated, it does seem that a lot of people in AH have a pronounced sense of schadenfreude when it comes to other people making mistakes. Maybe it reinforces their own sense of infallibility or something?

Latchy

Red Alert wrote: »

Fees are great for preventing time-wasters wasting everyone else's time. I would also add on:

€10 for use of the onboard toilet on flights under one hour.
€20 for those who do not put all their metals into their carry on bag prior to security.
€50 for those who do not have their liquids / laptop removed prior to security.
€50 for those whose bags have a prohibited item that needs to be removed.
€100 per extra child to discourage those travelling with more than 1 child per adult.
€200 for those without a printed boarding pass, or smartphone on which to show their boarding pass.

F F S ,why not herd everybody into a compound surrounded by bared wire ?

Travel is supposed to be a pleasure,not a greedy excuse to milk Joe public at every opportunity .At those rates above you'll put the holiday and tourism industry out of business and you would be better off flying Aer Lingus .

I suspect there are a few Ryanair employees on this thread to who are full of the bull**** to .

seligehgit

Red Alert wrote: »

Fees are great for preventing time-wasters wasting everyone else's time. I would also add on:

€10 for use of the onboard toilet on flights under one hour.
€20 for those who do not put all their metals into their carry on bag prior to security.
€50 for those who do not have their liquids / laptop removed prior to security.
€50 for those whose bags have a prohibited item that needs to be removed.
€100 per extra child to discourage those travelling with more than 1 child per adult.
€200 for those without a printed boarding pass, or smartphone on which to show their boarding pass.

Do they allow you show a boarding pass pdf on a smartphone?Just curious,is it possible for the staff to scan it.I have saved a boarding pass as a pdf on my ipod touch before but I was not if I could use same.

steve9859

Einhard wrote: »

Savvy people make mistakes too. It's wonderful though, to see that so many people on AH have yet to make mistakes in their lives. Hats off.

I have made the mistake before. And I've coughed up the 120 euro for me and my girlfriend without complaining (not that I wasn't p*ssed off at my own stupidity!)

It is a good rule, Mo'L is exactly right, and people screwing up helps fund my cheap Ryanair flights.

steve9859

Latchy wrote: »

F F S ,why not herd everybody into a compound surrounded by bared wire ?

Travel is supposed to be a pleasure,not a greedy excuse to milk Joe public at every opportunity .At those rates above you'll put the holiday and tourism industry out of business and you would be better off flying Aer Lingus .

I suspect there are a few Ryanair employees on this thread to who are full of the bull**** to .

Your post makes no sense. It's a free market. You travel in the style that you want to pay for. If you don't want to be herded onto a Ryanair flight, you're quite free to buy Aer Lingus and buy the good seats!

Latchy

steve9859 wrote: »

It's a free market. You travel in the style that you want to pay for. If you don't want to be herded onto a Ryanair flight, you're quite free to buy Aer Lingus and buy the good seats!

The days of herding people onto cattle ships has long gone and the only thing I can take from your post is that there is an alternative to flying Ryanair .There always was and there always will be !