Lampard vs Gerrard

Beefy78

Beasty wrote: »

Not got a foot in either camp, but if I had the choice of which one to have by my side in the trenches it would be Gerrard. I feel Lampard is a great player at club level, but has never really done it for me at international level.

25 goals for England and England's player of the year twice. Lamps has had a great International career.

What I like about Lampard is that more than almost anyone I've seen in my time watching English football he's made the absolute most of the talent he was born with. He's a genuine role model and a great example for kids to see what you can achieve if you work hard and always strive to improve.

8-10

bookie basher wrote: »

lampard for me, scored more goals, was less prone to injury and seemed to be stonger mentally, gerrard was a good player & scored his share of goals but not as much as lampard & he was never great at organising the play or being a midfield playmaker like pirlo, xavi, deco etc

Em...they're both still playing btw, that's a lot of past-tense!

citytillidie

Beefy78 wrote: »

25 goals for England and England's player of the year twice. Lamps has had a great International career.

What I like about Lampard is that more than almost anyone I've seen in my time watching English football he's made the absolute most of the talent he was born with. He's a genuine role model and a great example for kids to see what you can achieve if you work hard and always strive to improve.

8 of lampards goals for England have been pens, while gerrard has no pens for England, so taking those out gerrard has more goals.

Gerrard has been England player of the year once but has also been UEFA Club Footballer of the Year 1 of only 2 English players to get that

PHB

I think Gerrard will always go down as being wasted potential for me. I genuinely think he had the potential to become one of the best midfielders of all time, but will instead go down as just one of the best of his generation.

Staying at Liverpool meant his game never really developed beyond the, I need to ****ing do everything so anytime I get the ball I'll try a 40 yard overhead through ball. Even know, he gives away possession so much it's incredible.

Lampard on the other hand grew into an utterly world class player, perhaps with less natural ability. Incredibly consistent in the league and scores big goals in big games, e.g. against Barca. Even know, he's developed his game as he's gotten older into being deeper in the pitch, and his ability to learn means he can keep playing at the highest level, unlike Gerrard, who appears to be fading away.

There's never really been any point though in their careers when I would have preferred Gerrard as a player to Lampard, but if you were signing them when they were 23, I'd take Gerrard every time. He could really have been something special, but ended up just being a club legend. Still, won the champions league and FA Cup, so I'm sure he's not unhappy.

Beefy78

citytillidie wrote: »

8 of lampards goals for England have been pens, while gerrard has no pens for England, so taking those out gerrard has more goals.

Do pens not count as goals then?

The point was that it's not fair to say that Lampard has never done it for England.

opr

I don't even know why they're being compared. Gerrard is a more like a Kaka, Ronaldino than a Lampard. The English media shoe horned him into the midfield role and Gerrard believed it himself but his truly devastating performances have come as an attacker. Lampard is the far superior central midfield player because he's disciplined, tactically aware, consistently good etc. Gerrard though while lacking some of these qualities has genius in those boots.

Opr

The Radiator

There has been 15 posts in the thread saying Gerrard is the better player, 10 saying Lampard is the better player. The poll says differently though.

I think most Man Utd fans will automatically vote for Lampard just because of the team Gerrard plays for. I think the arguments in this thread favouring Gerrard have been had much more substance. Personally, don't see how any unbiased poster could think Lampard is the better player

The Radiator

PHB wrote: »

Still, won the champions league and FA Cup, so I'm sure he's not unhappy.

Three league cups, two FA cups, a UEFA cup and a Champions League

Giggsy11

The Radiator wrote: »

There has been 15 posts in the thread saying Gerrard is the better player, 10 saying Lampard is the better player. The poll says differently though.

I think most Man Utd fans will automatically vote for Lampard just because of the team Gerrard plays for. I think the arguments in this thread favouring Gerrard have been had much more substance. Personally, don't see how any unbiased poster could think Lampard is the better player

Not at all biased.

And how many of those 15 posts are from Liverpool fans?

The Radiator

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Not at all biased.

And how many of those 15 posts are from Liverpool fans?

9 from Liverpool fans, and I'm not sure about two of those nine.

Out of the 10 posts for Lampard, 3 were Chelsea fans, 4 were Utd fans, one Leeds fan (I think, Kirby) and two who I don't know who they support

Will I Amnt

The Radiator wrote: »

I think most Man Utd fans will automatically vote for Lampard just because of the team Gerrard plays for.

What a load of rubbish.
You think Liverpool fans are going to be impartial here or something??

ahnowbrowncow

The Radiator wrote: »

9 from Liverpool fans, and I'm not sure about two of those nine.

Out of the 10 posts for Lampard, 3 were Chelsea fans, 4 were Utd fans, one Leeds fan (I think, Kirby) and two who I don't know who they support

So you're saying liverpool has 3 times the amount of supporters as chelsea in this thread and yet you're claiming the poll is biased towards lampard?

The Radiator

The Radiator wrote: »

Three league cups, two FA cups, a UEFA cup and a Champions League

+2 Community Shields.

The Radiator

Deleted User wrote: »

+2 Community Shields.

If you want to count them, sure. I wouldn't consider the Community Shield note worthy though

opr

Beasty wrote: »

However I take the point regarding the deterioration of Gerrard - I think he's suffering from being played too much as a youngster (when still growing and prone to niggling injuries - this is where Ferguson played a blinder with Giggs, making sure he was not overplayed early in his career)

What's this about? Someone posted this in another thread yesterday when we were talking about young players and the dangers of overplaying them at a young age.

Giggs is intelligent enough to be able to have a career despite being thrown into things too early. As he said himself, he hasn't been able to sprint since his mid 20', and has had to resort to an extremely regulated and regular schedule of yoga to keep him going due to his past.

17 year olds aren't adults. In fact, from a fitness point of view, a person's endurance stamina at 18 is at a level which it will not drop down to again until the person is 65 (found through extensive studies of marathon results - times of 17 and 18 year olds consistently match those of 60/65 year olds, while there are vast improvements in 20+ year olds)

Too much pressure put on young, undeveloped muscle will simply result in damaged muscle and a short career.

Gerrard was 17 going on 18 in his first season when he made 13 appearances. He made a total of 94 appearances in his first three seasons.

Ryan Giggs was 17 going on 18 in his first season in which he made two appearances. He made a total of 99 appearances in his first three seasons.

I don't really understand how such a blinder was played with Giggs?

Opr

The Radiator

opr wrote: »

I don't really understand how such a blinder was played with Giggs?

Opr

He's the Man Utd manager. Everything he does is a 'blinder' in the eyes of Man Utd fans. Butters his toast it's a 'blinder', ties his shoes it's a 'blinder', trips over an advertising board it's a 'blinder' and so on

I think Opr just played a blinder :cool:

Will I Amnt

The Radiator wrote: »

He's the Man Utd manager. Everything he does is a 'blinder' in the eyes of Man Utd fans. Butters his toast it's a 'blinder', ties his shoes it's a 'blinder', trips over an advertising board it's a 'blinder' and so on

Such an insightful poster,I look forward to hearing more from you :rolleyes:

Liam O

The Radiator wrote: »

opr wrote: »

I don't really understand how such a blinder was played with Giggs?

Opr

He's the Man Utd manager. Everything he does is a 'blinder' in the eyes of Man Utd fans. Butters his toast it's a 'blinder', ties his shoes it's a 'blinder', trips over an advertising board it's a 'blinder' and so on

Wtf are you on about? I'm not sure I've read one of your posts where you don't come across as a delusional moron.

The Radiator

Liam O wrote: »

Wtf are you on about? I'm not sure I've read one of your posts where you don't come across as a delusional moron.

I could honestly say the same about you

Will I Amnt

@The Radiator.
Aren't you the guy that tried to pass himself off as someone who has no club allegiance in the United superthread???
And then got shown up for the bitter Liverpool fan that you seem to be.

The Radiator

cambo2008 wrote: »

@The Radiator.
Aren't you the guy that tried to pass himself off as someone who has no club allegiance in the United superthread???
And then got shown up for the bitter Liverpool fan that you seem to be.

Which superthread was this? Leeds? Newcastle?

Will I Amnt

The Radiator wrote: »

Which superthread was this? Leeds? Newcastle?

You should know,you were the one spouting bullshìt in it

The Radiator

cambo2008 wrote: »

You should know,you were the one spouting bullshìt in it

I spout bullshít in a lot of places. I can't be expected to keep track of every single one

DARK-KNIGHT

The Radiator wrote: »

There has been 15 posts in the thread saying Gerrard is the better player, 10 saying Lampard is the better player. The poll says differently though.

I think most Man Utd fans will automatically vote for Lampard just because of the team Gerrard plays for. I think the arguments in this thread favouring Gerrard have been had much more substance. Personally, don't see how any unbiased poster could think Lampard is the better player

Ok u want more posts lampard is the better player by far IMO!!!

Gerard is massively overrated by liverpool fans.

The Radiator

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Ok u want more posts lampard is the better player by far IMO!!!

Gerard is massively overrated by liverpool fans.

I think we've found someone who contributes even less than I do

DARK-KNIGHT

The Radiator wrote: »

I think we've found someone who contributes even less than I do

Is that possible?

Why can't lfc fans take criticism? Next you will be saying next year is our year or telling us about the 70s and 80s.

My opinion is I don't rate gerrard, it's an opinion that's all

Liam O

This thread was interesting, now it's torture.

When you have posters saying they don't rate Gerrard or Lampard at all, you know they haven't a clue,and their opinion counts for zilch.

Hank Scorpio

Both are/were top class players, its impossible for me to vote for one or the other

Royal Legend

PHB wrote: »

I think Gerrard will always go down as being wasted potential for me. I genuinely think he had the potential to become one of the best midfielders of all time, but will instead go down as just one of the best of his generation.

Staying at Liverpool meant his game never really developed beyond the, I need to ****ing do everything so anytime I get the ball I'll try a 40 yard overhead through ball. Even know, he gives away possession so much it's incredible.

Lampard on the other hand grew into an utterly world class player, perhaps with less natural ability. Incredibly consistent in the league and scores big goals in big games, e.g. against Barca. Even know, he's developed his game as he's gotten older into being deeper in the pitch, and his ability to learn means he can keep playing at the highest level, unlike Gerrard, who appears to be fading away.

There's never really been any point though in their careers when I would have preferred Gerrard as a player to Lampard, but if you were signing them when they were 23, I'd take Gerrard every time. He could really have been something special, but ended up just being a club legend. Still, won the champions league and FA Cup, so I'm sure he's not unhappy.

Sometimes I thought that SG was over rated, then other times I saw what he was capable of. Lampard is consistent, I thought that his performance in the CL final last year was immense.

arodabomb

The Radiator wrote: »

There has been 15 posts in the thread saying Gerrard is the better player, 10 saying Lampard is the better player. The poll says differently though.

I think most Man Utd fans will automatically vote for Lampard just because of the team Gerrard plays for. I think the arguments in this thread favouring Gerrard have been had much more substance. Personally, don't see how any unbiased poster could think Lampard is the better player

United fan here and I can't understand how Lampard is even being compared to Gerrard. Gerrard is a far superior player (admittedly Gerrard has probably fallen behind Lampard this season and last). Gerrard is the closest player I've seen to Keane for his ability to drag everyone around him to another level.

Unfortunately Gerrard's loyalty to Liverpool has probably swayed peoples thinking. I don't think we'd be having this discussion if Gerrard had signed for Madrid or someone similar (no disrespect intended to Liverpool, Ronaldo has found another level to his game since leaving utd).

Beasty

opr wrote: »

I don't really understand how such a blinder was played with Giggs?

Opr

I'm talking about the first 4 or 5 years of their careers. It became clear early in his career that Giggs was injury prone - particularly susceptible to hamstring strains. Basically Ferguson would not risk him - he would not be played with any niggles and would be taken off at the first sign of injury.

United could afford not to risk him because they had plenty of other quality players around (and in Lee Sharpe someone who could slot into a similar role). Gerrard was, however, played with niggling injuries at a time particulary early on in his career when he was still growing. I suspect his injury problems over the years have been compounded because he did not get the "cotton wool" treatment that Giggs got early on (which I suspect has contributed to Giggs' longevity in the game)

opr

Giggs played 58 games to the 45 Gerrard played in his fourth season. Whether you look at it over 3, 4 or 5 years he played more games. I see the point you're trying to make as I do remember the growth spurs that Gerrard had which caused problems in his back early in his career but both players played far too many games at a young age. No one played a blinder.

Opr

wonderfullife

Stevie G had that Keane-esque ability to basically win a game on his own. Liverpool would not have come back to beat Milan without him on the park. However, unlike Keane, he has this niggling tendency (career long) to do a Harry Houdini impression for parts of games. The amount of games in his career where he has been anonymous is unreal. Lampard doesn't tend to go missing as much.

It's perfect pub debate though!! Both are/were super players and both will be remembered as such. It's probably no coincidence that Lamps had his best years with Makelele behind him being a machine and probably no coincidence Stevie G had his best years with Alonso behind him being a machine. i.e. both are better attacking midfielders than defensive. I don't think any direct comparisons between Keane v Lamps v Gerard work because they all had slightly different roles.

I know there is more to football than trophies but anyway i suppose it has to form part of the debate:

Gerrard:

2 FA Cups
3 League Cups
1 Champions League
1 UEFA Cup

Lampard:

3 League titles
4 FA Cups
2 League Cups
1 Champions League
1 Intertoto Cup

(Omitted meaningless one-off ones like Super Cup/Charity Shield)

So you would have to say Lamps has a much better career haul than Gerrard. I know Keano isn't in the OP but his career haul (7 league titles, 4 FA Cups and Champions League trumps both of them).

Tell ya though wouldn't be a bad side that had a peak Keane, Lamps and Gerrard in it. Keane DM, Lamps at the top of a diamond with Stevie G withdrawn striker!!!

I'm going back to sit on the fence now.:)

IvySlayer

Gerrard at his peak edges Lampard for me.

And lol at the precious fans claiming bias.

Fight_Night

At peak Gerrard for me. His headed goal in the CL final will always stick in my head. Neutral fan too. Tight call though, Lamps was a top class player in his peak too.

frankled

Gerrard has been, overall, streets ahead of Lampard. Lampard has largely just been influential in the attacking third, whilst Gerrard has more all-round ability. When Gerrard was deployed in Lampard's role (with Torres) he was more devastating.

Lampard never had the influence Gerrard had in a team. People forget that not only did Gerrard almost single-handedly win the CL in '05, he got them there the season before- his tackles achieving this as much as his goals.

People's judgement of Gerrard is usually clouded by the fact that he hasn't done much lately due to his injuries. As well as that, the dramatism of his heroic-style playing style ends up in him being labelled as a big-time charlie. People forget that some of his Hollywood passes would have gone to better effect had he had equal players playing with him. With good players near him i.e. Hamann, Mascherano, Alonso, Torres, Owen he was devastating. And he was a one-man team at times with lesser players.

Lampard is a class player and I like him, but he has never had to be depended on at Abramovich's Chelsea. He has a great penalty and shot, but so has Gerrard, and how many times has Gerrard had to orchestrate something out of nothing whilst Lampard has had quality players around him to set up his deflections?

It is probably a bit unfair on both of them to be constantly compared. I think Lampard is a class player, and for the first time ever showed his versatility in playing as DM against Barcelona of late. It was probably easy to play the role those nights as there were about 5 other Chelsea players playing it- but he did do well. Still, he can't be compared to Gerrard. Miles apart.

wonderfullife

frankled wrote: »

Gerrard has been, overall, streets ahead of Lampard. Lampard has largely just been influential in the attacking third, whilst Gerrard has more all-round ability. When Gerrard was deployed in Lampard's role (with Torres) he was more devastating.

Lampard never had the influence Gerrard had in a team. People forget that not only did Gerrard almost single-handedly win the CL in '05, he got them there the season before- his tackles achieving this as much as his goals.

People's judgement of Gerrard is usually clouded by the fact that he hasn't done much lately due to his injuries. As well as that, the dramatism of his heroic-style playing style ends up in him being labelled as a big-time charlie. People forget that some of his Hollywood passes would have gone to better effect had he had equal players playing with him. With good players near him i.e. Hamann, Mascherano, Alonso, Torres, Owen he was devastating. And he was a one-man team at times with lesser players.

Lampard is a class player and I like him, but he has never had to be depended on at Abramovich's Chelsea. He has a great penalty and shot, but so has Gerrard, and how many times has Gerrard had to orchestrate something out of nothing whilst Lampard has had quality players around him to set up his deflections?

It is probably a bit unfair on both of them to be constantly compared. I think Lampard is a class player, and for the first time ever showed his versatility in playing as DM against Barcelona of late. It was probably easy to play the role those nights as there were about 5 other Chelsea players playing it- but he did do well. Still, he can't be compared to Gerrard. Miles apart.

Ah will ya stop. It's 1 thing saying Stevie G is better and another saying it's miles apart.

Club stats from 2000/2001 season to present day:

Lamps:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/8941/frank-lampard?cc=5739

116 assists, 194 goals, 592 starts, 37 from bench, 1,158 shots

A goal every 3.24 games
A goal every 5.96 shots
An assist every 5.42 games

Stevie G:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/7935/steven-gerrard?cc=5739

100 assists, 150 goals, 519 starts, 37 from bench, 1,157 shots

A goal every 3.70 games
A goal every 7.71 shots
An assist every 5.56 games

Before anyone bangs the "Lampard takes penalties" drum - i will need to find the source but the figures i saw were:

Lampard: 46 goals from pennos for Chelsea
Gerrard: 29 goals from pennos for Liverpool

So a goal tally from that period minus pennos would read:

Lampard - A goal every 7.8 shots
Gerrard - A goal every 9.6 shots


They both have great stats, Lamps marginally better. Both super players. But if you still think Gerrard is on a different level to Lampard after those stats then it's mind boggling. There really is not a lot in it and if anything the stats lean to Lampard. Good job football is about more than stats and i wouldn't think anybody is silly for preferring one or the other, they are both excellent.

Kirby

One of the odd things when you compare them is that I think Gerrard has become much less effective over the last few years as he aged and became a weaker player. It is noticable that he is slower, his stamina is much poorer and his ball retention hasn't gotten any better. And even though he is well into his thirties, he has developed virtually no defensive skills.

Conversely, I actually rate lampard as a better player now than 5 or 6 years ago. He may get less goals due to his deeper position but his ball retention, control, positioning and passing is alot better than perhaps it was earlier in his career. I remember against Barca last year, he barely gave the ball away once in the whole second leg. I was impressed.

I think we can all agree that they are both good players. But I would agree with PHB that Lamard is the superior player at the moment, despite their similar ages.

SlickRic

Lampard is constistency personified.

Gerrard is a genius, who produces moments very few players can produce when it matters.

also, Lampard's best position is as CM.

Gerrard's best position is in a free role, or behind the striker.

it's like comparing Kaka to Xavi. you can try to do it, but you're probably doing a disservice to both if you do.

GavRedKing

SlickRic wrote: »

Lampard is constistency personified.

Gerrard is a genius, who produces moments very few players can produce when it matters.

also, Lampard's best position is as CM.

Gerrard's best position is in a free role, or behind the striker.

it's like comparing Kaka to Xavi. you can try to do it, but you're probably doing a disservice to both if you do.

Excellent summary for Lampard and Gerrard.

TheDoc

Lampard for me all the way.

Gerrard is a throw back to the helter skelter midfielder who just runs on stamina, flashes of brilliance but most often or not poor passing and decision making because at the pace he wants to play the game.

Lampard is more thorough, intellegent, precise and just an all round more accomplished midfielder.

You can even see now, in their older age, how Lampard has used his footie brain to adapt to a more deep lying role, whilst Gerrard just simply can't adapt to anything other then trying to play the game at the highest tempo.

Francie Barrett

TheDoc wrote: »

whilst Gerrard just simply can't adapt to anything other then trying to play the game at the highest tempo.

I take it you haven't been watching England as of late.

wonderfullife

TheDoc wrote: »

Lampard for me all the way.

Gerrard is a throw back to the helter skelter midfielder who just runs on stamina, flashes of brilliance but most often or not poor passing and decision making because at the pace he wants to play the game.

Lampard is more thorough, intellegent, precise and just an all round more accomplished midfielder.

You can even see now, in their older age, how Lampard has used his footie brain to adapt to a more deep lying role, whilst Gerrard just simply can't adapt to anything other then trying to play the game at the highest tempo.

That's a slightly harsh analysis, i see where you are coming from but Gerrard did have an excellent Euros in a poor English side and it wasn't all helter skelter 100 miles an hour stuff or 70 yard Hollywood Balls either. I would agree though that, at times, the only reason he is picked for club and country is down to his name. He's built up this mythology of being the all-action-hero yet he has failed to deliver on that consistently in years. Yet i don't see Hodgson or Rodgers dropping him anytime soon.

I would question the consensus though of Lampard being a CM with Gerrard being an attacking midfielder. Lampard, like Scholes, has made a career on getting into the box and scoring goals. They are a lot more similar than people give them credit for on this thread - both were at their best playing further up the field with a solid DM behind them like Makelele or Alonso. I don't think either have ever been a true DM or sitting deep. Gerrard is better in the hole behind the striker but Lampard isn't too far down the pitch behind that either.

TheDoc

wonderfullife wrote: »

Rodgers dropping him anytime soon.

No one to replace him, one of the most obvious things form Liverpools early season start is that Gerrard looks completely lost and no idea what he is to be doing.

Many are saying the toughest task ahead for Rodgers is how to phase him out...

Beefy78

TheDoc wrote: »

No one to replace him, one of the most obvious things form Liverpools early season start is that Gerrard looks completely lost and no idea what he is to be doing.

Many are saying the toughest task ahead for Rodgers is how to phase him out...

Personally I think they should move Gerrard further forward and play him on the right of the front three. It's not ideal but he's probably more suited to playing there than he is in central midfield in this system (as he showed against Arsenal the other week).

frankled

wonderfullife wrote: »

Ah will ya stop. It's 1 thing saying Stevie G is better and another saying it's miles apart.

Club stats from 2000/2001 season to present day:

Lamps:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/8941/frank-lampard?cc=5739

116 assists, 194 goals, 592 starts, 37 from bench, 1,158 shots

A goal every 3.24 games
A goal every 5.96 shots
An assist every 5.42 games

Stevie G:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/7935/steven-gerrard?cc=5739

100 assists, 150 goals, 519 starts, 37 from bench, 1,157 shots

A goal every 3.70 games
A goal every 7.71 shots
An assist every 5.56 games

Before anyone bangs the "Lampard takes penalties" drum - i will need to find the source but the figures i saw were:

Lampard: 46 goals from pennos for Chelsea
Gerrard: 29 goals from pennos for Liverpool

So a goal tally from that period minus pennos would read:

Lampard - A goal every 7.8 shots
Gerrard - A goal every 9.6 shots


They both have great stats, Lamps marginally better. Both super players. But if you still think Gerrard is on a different level to Lampard after those stats then it's mind boggling. There really is not a lot in it and if anything the stats lean to Lampard. Good job football is about more than stats and i wouldn't think anybody is silly for preferring one or the other, they are both excellent.

Yeah ok, not miles, fair enough. But still, in my opinion Gerrard is/has been a better player overall.

Chancer3001

lampard by a million miles,.

better player

passer

scorer

less transfer requests handed in

more consistent

has adapted his game better as he ages

Chancer3001

Chancer3001 wrote: »

lampard by a million miles,.

better player

passer

scorer

less transfer requests handed in

more consistent

has adapted his game better as he ages

Bloody hell.

Would love to know do some people actually watch football before posting ridiculous statements.