The RA

Nodin

Border-Rat wrote: »

The Stickies have huge arms caches and the Provos are in bed with Putins regime. You really do know nothing.

Isn't it the other way round...?

Border-Rat

czx wrote: »

Straight from the horse's mouth!

What? Its hardly a secret, you can read about these things on the internet.

Border-Rat

Nodin wrote: »

Isn't it the other way round...?

I guess you're right. The UVF thug the Provos shot in 2011 trying to burn down a chapel was shot with ball-bearings.

czx

Border-Rat wrote: »

What? Its hardly a secret, you can read about these things on the internet.

I want the truth though, not the internet!

Seaneh

Tom_Cruise wrote: »

So will N.Ireland will always be part of Britain?

It was never part of Britain, britain is an island...

lugha

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I don't broadly 'defend' the PIRA - I would say that people have the right to take up arms against an oppressive anti-democratic regime (which for all intents and purposes is what the British backed Unionist statelet was).

Well, this is what I would call broadly defending PIRA but no matter.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

That I can't say whether or not the PIRA advanced the cause of civil rights or hindered it?

Yes. Who can?

Well I think that is a very cavalier attitude to the use of violence. Some of us would want to be pretty convinced that there is no other option before we turn to violence.

Border-Rat wrote: »

I hope you don't liVe in the South. Surely a man of your morals couldn't see himself living in a state founded by an IRA much, much worse than the PIRA?

I don’t know what you are referring to? But it matters not as we are not talking about morals. I have no doubt in my mind about the morality of PIRA. We are discussing whether or not their intervention was productive or counter-productive, a different consideration to whether or not it was justified.

Chuck Stone

lugha wrote: »

Well I think that is a very cavalier attitude to the use of violence.

I hate violence. I'd consider myself anti-war/conflict. Talking is always better than violence and peace should be the goal of all civilised people.

Some of us would want to be pretty convinced that there is no other option before we turn to violence.

Do you think you would have been a 'Ghandi' had you been living in the Bogside of Derry on the 30th Jan 1972? How about if you'd been burned out of your home by loyalists as the so-called 'security forces' watched? Or how about watching your Dad being pulled out of his bed by people with British accents and guns and being imprisoned without trial? (none of these things happened to me fwiw)

I would never be so arrogant to say that I wouldn't have fought back having witnessed such events happen to my family and community.

Red About Town

Border-Rat wrote: »

The Stickies have huge arms caches and the Provos are in bed with Putins regime. You really do know nothing.

I expect you can provide some sort of factual evidence for these claims?

Strange, I didn't see these claims mentioned in any of the IMC reports from 2004 to 2011. But they obviously knew nothing as well :rolleyes:

Killer Wench

When up in Belfast, I went on one of those tours led by a Republican and a Loyalist. Walking through the Republican area, it felt more welcoming to me. Being Black American, the Republican tour guide approached me and told me how he was personally inspired by the Civil Rights Movement of my parent's generation. I felt a connection with them. Then, I went over to the Loyalist section and the first thing I saw was a swastika. Of course, the swastika hadn't been properly inverted, but the message was conveyed. The tour guide for this portion immediately began talking about how they had been burning the Republicans out of their homes and had them on the run, and that it was those Republicans that called in the Army to stop the violence. Granted, these were just two individuals representing a greater movement, but the stark contrasts in personality and viewpoint just left me biased toward the Republican side.

Chuck Stone

Killer Wench wrote: »

Being Black American, the Republican tour guide approached me and told me how he was personally inspired by the Civil Rights Movement of my parent's generation.

My favourite mural in Belfast (Ardoyne)

Not sure if it's still there.

oranbhoy67

up them!!!

OnTheCounter

Heard on the radio today about 500 people showed up to the funeral of that RIRA lad in white shirts and black armbands. Seems there are still a lot of active members around. MI5 trolling through surveillance footage as we speak and more names added to watchlists.

Would be interesting to know if most of them were just young idiots or more serious individuals.

lugha

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Do you think you would have been a 'Ghandi' had you been living in the Bogside of Derry on the 30th Jan 1972? How about if you'd been burned out of your home by loyalists as the so-called 'security forces' watched? Or how about watching your Dad being pulled out of his bed by people with British accents and guns and being imprisoned without trial? (none of these things happened to me fwiw)

I would never be so arrogant to say that I wouldn't have fought back having witnessed such events happen to my family and community.

Well this all relates to justification or motivation for PIRA acting as they did. I am asking about the effectiveness of their actions.

There is barely a thread on any aspect of the Northern troubles that doesn’t have some republican hailing how much the cause for nationalists was advanced by PIRA. I am asking if anyone can make a supporting argument for this assertion. Or is it the case that the lot of nationalists improved, not because of PIRA, but in spite of them? Violence invariably tends to harden attitudes and invoke a response in kind, which pushes resolutions further away,

I can point to lots of examples of sectarianism and racism and all sorts of other isms that were rife in many countries 40 or 50 years ago that have now all but been done away with. And not because of the actions of any armed militia, but because there is a natural propensity for people and countries to evolve to behave in a more civil and humane way.

Anybody with a nodding acquaintance with British society will know how sensitive they have become to ethnic and other minorities, which was not the case 30-40 years ago. Does anyone thing that the British establishment could have evolved like this in their dealings in Britain but simultaneously retained a 1960s outlook in NI?

getzls

Killer Wench wrote: »

When up in Belfast, Then, I went over to the Loyalist section and the first thing I saw was a swastika.

A swastika you say. Never seen one fly in N.Ireland in my life.

Really it would be rude of me to call you a lair, so i will not be rude.:cool:

Chuck Stone

lugha wrote: »

Well this all relates to justification or motivation for PIRA acting as they did.

You say justification - I say contextualising. Potato - potahto, tomato - tomahto.

I am asking about the effectiveness of their actions.

And I'm saying I don't believe it can be answered.

There is barely a thread on any aspect of the Northern troubles that doesn’t have some republican hailing how much the cause for nationalists was advanced by PIRA. I am asking if anyone can make a supporting argument for this assertion. Or is it the case that the lot of nationalists improved, not because of PIRA, but in spite of them?

Take it up with them then. You have my view on the matter.

I can point to lots of examples of sectarianism and racism and all sorts of other isms that were rife in many countries 40 or 50 years ago that have now all but been done away with. And not because of the actions of any armed militia, but because there is a natural propensity for people and countries to evolve to behave in a more civil and humane way.

Equally there are lots of examples to the contrary and history is replete with minorities being massacred and genocide.

Anybody with a nodding acquaintance with British society will know how sensitive they have become to ethnic and other minorities, which was not the case 30-40 years ago.

I'd agree with that. I would also highlight that the north isn't Britain. Britain is a far more multi-ethnic and tolerant place than the north. The north had a deliberately created majority that had the power to treat the minority how they chose. They chose to make it a sectarian cesspit and tried to preserve their privilege at all costs including living with a nasty conflict rather than 'have a Catholic about the place'.

Does anyone thing that the British establishment could have evolved like this in their dealings in Britain but simultaneously retained a 1960s outlook in NI?

Probably not in the absence of sectarianism, discrimination, and violence but again, that's not the reality we're working with.

Stars and Bars

Always preferred the Protestants from Ulster to the IRA. The Protestant cause in Ulster seems like a more fair and just cause and has more meaning behind of a people wanting to defend the land and traditional principles and not over bearing government in a Irish Republic.

Stars and Bars

getzls wrote: »

A swastika you say. Never seen one fly in N.Ireland in my life.

Really it would be rude of me to call you a lair, so i will not be rude.:cool:

I would call bull**** on that too. It was the brave sons of Ulster who went and fought the Nazis. While the Irish Republic decided to act like cowards. Although you did get those Irish in the Republic who did fight bravely but got persecuted for doing it.A great shame.

Chuck Stone

Stars and Bars wrote: »

Always preferred the Protestants from Ulster to the IRA. The Protestant cause in Ulster seems like a more fair and just cause and has more meaning behind of a people wanting to defend the land and traditional principles and not over bearing government in a Irish Republic.

Bahahahaha

Hi KeithAFC.

Shouldn't a youngster like you be out having fun on a Saturday night rather than getting stressed over a discussion on an Irish based forum?

Stars and Bars

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Bahahahaha

Hi KeithAFC.

Shouldn't a youngster like you be out having fun on a Saturday night rather than getting stressed over a discussion on an Irish based forum?

All those IRA groups and you still can't get those 6 traditional counties. Just following in the tradition of Republican failure I see.

pragmatic1

Stars and Bars wrote: »

I would call bull**** on that too. It was the brave sons of Ulster who went and fought the Nazis. While the Irish Republic decided to act like cowards. Although you did get those Irish in the Republic who did fight bravely but got persecuted for doing it.A great shame.

Obvious troll is obvious.

Stars and Bars

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Obvious troll is obvious.

The truth hurts. The government of the Irish Republic acted like cowards. Luckily not all of Ulster was prepared to act like such cowards.

Chuck Stone

Stars and Bars wrote: »

All those IRA groups and you still can't get those 6 traditional counties. Just following in the tradition of Republican failure I see.

They don't belong to your crowd any more, son.

If Nationalists/Catholics vote to remain within the union then that doesn't bother me in the slightest - all it would prove is that they are happy with the Status quo - the future is bright, the future is green.

Pace2008

Stars and Bars wrote: »

Trololololololololo

Well said, Keith.

Stars and Bars

Chuck Stone wrote: »

They don't belong to your crowd any more, son.

If Nationalists/Catholics vote to remain within the union then that doesn't bother me in the slightest - all it would prove is that they are happy with the Status quo - the future is bright, the future is green.

Which is what the stats show. The Republican argument is failing and now Sinn Fein work for a British government. Leave the citizens of Northern Ireland to their own affairs and stop interfering Southern boy.

Killer Wench

getzls wrote: »

A swastika you say. Never seen one fly in N.Ireland in my life.

Really it would be rude of me to call you a lair, so i will not be rude.:cool:

It wasn't flying. It was spray painted on an abandoned house with the letters BNP. I pointed it out the tour guide and he said that if he knew who had had written them, he would have smacked them across the head. Eh.

Chuck Stone

Stars and Bars wrote: »

Which is what the stats show. The Republican argument is failing and now Sinn Fein work for a British government. Leave the citizens of Northern Ireland to their own affairs and stop interfering Southern boy.

I have a UK birth cert and grew up in the north. I'm half north - half south.

I can be British if I choose to. :eek:

MoonDancer

Seriously??!!
An awful lot of people seem to have forgotten that we were in a war at the time, and if it wasn't for the IRA, we would all be bowing in front of the queen today!

lugha

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Take it up with them then. You have my view on the matter.

Well I am putting the question out but they are awfully shy about answering! At the moment, in terms of evidence that the endeavours of the PIRA actually did improve the lot for nationalists, you are out in front with a total score of zero evidence.

But I’m sure there is someone, some where that fancies their chances at topping that! :pac:

mixed up

It's very easy to answer your question because they are all cowards.I had met alan ryan who was shot and he was a complete and utter w*nker.I also went to school with patrick dermody which i will link to.He is just so slow that they took advantage of him and he was so stupid he went along with them trying to be a hard man :eek: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/real-ira-tried-to-invent-bomb-court-told-317629.html

Chuck Stone

lugha wrote: »

Well I am putting the question out but they are awfully shy about answering! At the moment, in terms of evidence that the endeavours of the PIRA actually did improve the lot for nationalists, you are out in front with a total score of zero evidence.

The best score anyone can achieve to this question is zero because you're asking for evidence that can't be provided.

The PIRA were part of the history of the north. For anyone to provide evidence that equality (still a work in progress, mind) would have been achieved sooner rather than later (or vice versa) in the absence of the PIRA would require you to 'do the experiment' again only this time it would have the PIRA variable removed.

Now, unless you are some sort of god that can set up an experiment of this magnitude your asking for such evidence only underscores that you don't really understand the very question that you're asking.

Zaph

Stars and Bars permabanned for re-regging

Fenian Army

Big lol a the experts quoting numbers earlier in the thread, delusional stuff.

The provos (you know, the actual IRA) wouldnt have had some of the numbers quoted (judging by reported turnout at IRA special conventions were they'd have a delegate for every 10 members)

.jacksparrow.

I cant believe keithAFC has joined us once again:pac:

.jacksparrow.

Fenian Army wrote: »

Big lol a the experts quoting numbers earlier in the thread, delusional stuff.

The provos (you know, the actual IRA) wouldnt have had some of the numbers quoted (judging by reported turnout at IRA special conventions were they'd have a delegate for every 10 members)

OIRA 1000 members:pac:

policarp

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

I cant believe keithAFC has joined us once again:pac:

Has or Hasn't.?

tippspur

Colmustard wrote: »

I hate them. They disgust me and I wish they would just go away.

Good man,I hate them myself.Crowd of ****in idiots the lot of them.

.jacksparrow.

policarp wrote: »

Has or Hasn't.?

Has

policarp

This era of history hasn't been taught in school, because parents had children in classes where both sides of the civil war might have had relations or friends killed, and some teachers would be biased
Therefore we haven't a true picture of what history really is. . .

briany

http://oi49.tinypic.com/soonqp.jpg

The lads could do with another hunger strike.

cursai

If we keep talking about the tooth fairy it'll become real again as well.

policarp

It does exist. . .

poeticseraphim

Einhard wrote: »

That's fair enough. Both the Brits and the IRA have innocent blood on their hands.

There was a time in the 70's when the IRA were planting an average of 1500 bombs per year the only reason so many were disarmed were because the British Army risked their lives to do so.

They were saving lives they made huge mistakes but they saved more lives than they killed.

The IRA saved no one, they intended to harm the innocent and the numbers they murdered are multitudinous in comparison to the Brits.

The British have innocent blood on their hands, the IRA is drowning in innocent blood.

Lapin

OnTheCounter wrote: »

Im curious to know what is the modern day makeup of the IRA/CIRA/RIRA.

Here you go OP

Nodin

poeticseraphim wrote: »

There was a time in the 70's when the IRA were planting an average of 1500 bombs per year the only reason so many were disarmed were because the British Army risked their lives to do so.

They were saving lives .....

The poor misunderstood little lambs.....for years I thought they were brutalising the nationalist population, beating lads half to death at checkpoints and holding up a sectarian regime. Instead they were misunderstood little angels, send to wrap us all in fluffiness.

czx

Nodin wrote: »

The poor misunderstood little lambs.....for years I thought they were brutalising the nationalist population, beating lads half to death at checkpoints and holding up a sectarian regime. Instead they were misunderstood little angels, send to wrap us all in fluffiness.

As opposed to the IRA?

Fuinseog

Pace2008 wrote: »

3:23 on this video gives a good account of some of the main players in the RA:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBT4ZWy6Lm4

good song, but I find it sad the bandits had to explain that is was a satire

OnTheCounter

Thread is not really dealing with the modern day, just the same ould stuff about persecution of people in the north spoken by southerners whose own experience is watching hollywood movies.

LordSutch

Nodin wrote: »

The poor misunderstood little lambs.....for years I thought they were brutalising the nationalist population, beating lads half to death at checkpoints and holding up a sectarian regime. Instead they were misunderstood little angels, send to wrap us all in fluffiness.

That's so bleedin predictable, the Brits were the bad guys and the RA were the protectors/heroes of the Nationalist community :cool:

Border-Rat

LordSutch wrote: »

That's so bleedin predictable, the Brits were the bad guys and the RA were the protectors/heroes of the Nationalist community :cool:

Were? Just last year the IRA defended a Chapel full of Nationalists from the UVF (Who were firing on it, luckily not knowing how to shoot weapons). 'The taigs were shooting back from the roof', I believe is how the poor misunderstood Unionists put it. Shooting back - the assured act of lowdown scum!

Maybe they (The Provisional IRA) should've taken notes from the Old IRA and went out to burn some Prods out of their homes that same night. That woulda taught em!

Border-Rat

Lining up Protestant farmers in Cork and shooting them dead, making sure to burn out their relatives (Gotta be thorough) - noble acts, lets celebrate it in 2006 and again in 2016. In fact, lets make it a National holiday.

On the other hand, shooting Paratroopers or Lenny Murphy in Ulster - heinous, despicable cowardice. What scum!