Restricted dog insurance

Oberlus

Hi,

I am thinking of getting a puppy but it is listed in the "restricted breeds" and I am finding many difficulties to find a pet insurance.
Which pet insurance company covers these dogs?

Thank!

Assassins Creed

I have a gsd, no problem getting pet insurance. Try petinsure.ie or Allianz.

SillyMangoX

Which breed is it you are looking into getting? There could be owners on here of the same breed so they would be able to let you know where they got theres!

Oberlus

czechoslovakian wolfdog
Cheers!

Oberlus

I tried these ones but they said no...

SillyMangoX

That isn't s restricted breed, the restricted breeds in Ireland are:

American Pit Bull Terrier
Bull Mastiff
Doberman Pinscher
English Bull Terrier
German Shepherd (Alsatian)
Japanese Akita
Japanese Tosa
Rhodesian Ridgeback
Rottweiler
Staffordshire Bull Terrier
Every other strain of cross of every breed or type of dog listed above.

So you shouldn't have a problem with insurance. Unless it's a wolf/dog hybrid.

Rommie

If they're counting it as a wolf/dog hybrid, though it is technically a breed now, then you could always say it's a Czechslovakian Vlčák (pronounced Vu-chak if my czech is right) and see if they accept it. That's what the breed is called in Czech. My housemate has her akitas insured with Petinsure.ie and they're a restricted breed

BillyMitchel

SillyMangoX wrote: »

That isn't s restricted breed, the restricted breeds in Ireland are:

American Pit Bull Terrier
Bull Mastiff
Doberman Pinscher
English Bull Terrier
German Shepherd (Alsatian)
Japanese Akita
Japanese Tosa
Rhodesian Ridgeback
Rottweiler
Staffordshire Bull Terrier
Every other strain of cross of every breed or type of dog listed above.

So you shouldn't have a problem with insurance. Unless it's a wolf/dog hybrid.

There's a few breeds that insurance companies still wont insure regardless of the restricted breed list. Where they get their info from I have no idea. Some of them are international companies and they probably also look at lists from sister/parent companies.

Wow OP nice dog! Any photos? How old?

KingIsabella

This restricted dog business pisses me off. Should be a restricted owners list. I have three holes in my leg from a Lab. Who i know for a fact had ****ty owners. Put them on a list.

Oberlus

it's a breed but originally it's a cross of GS and a wolf, that is why it is in the list.

Oberlus

dont have it yet )

BillyMitchel

Oberlus wrote: »

dont have it yet )

Yeah sorry just seen that!

ISDW

Oberlus wrote: »

it's a breed but originally it's a cross of GS and a wolf, that is why it is in the list.

Its not on the list.

Magenta

Oberlus wrote: »

it's a breed but originally it's a cross of GS and a wolf, that is why it is in the list.

ISDW wrote: »

Its not on the list.

OP, if I were you I would do a bit more research before getting this dog.

SillyMangoX

Oberlus wrote: »

it's a breed but originally it's a cross of GS and a wolf, that is why it is in the list.

All breeds originally started out as different types of dogs crossed with each other, but if it is now a stand alone breed then it is no longer considered a cross breed. Unless the dog you are buying has a GSD as a mom and a wolf as a dad (or vice versa)

Assassins Creed

Op. What reason did they give you for refusing cover. While im not getting into whether this dog is on the restricted list or not, petinsure and allianz insure breeds on the restricted list. I dont know if they will insure all the breeds.

Oberlus

Thanks everyone!

Oberlus

Assassins Creed wrote: »

Op. What reason did they give you for refusing cover. While im not getting into whether this dog is on the restricted list or not, petinsure and allianz insure breeds on the restricted list. I dont know if they will insure all the breeds.

They just said they don't cover them. Just don't cover any wolfdog.:(

Wibbs

I agree with Magenta 100% you NEED to do more research. Don't be quick to believe the interweb hype especially if coming from an online breeder, esp in the UK.

With those type of dog breeds(the Saarloos wolfdog another) the problem is the UK. They were illegal to import into the UK until a couple of years ago as they were considered wolf hybrids, even though they've been recognised in Europe for decades. That legislation has since changed in the UK. Actually we never had those restrictions. Still don't, in fact you could probably get away with a full blooded wolf in Ireland, but the insurance companies with their UK head offices haven't quite caught up, so hence your problem. IF you are getting one I'd suggest looking to Europe, where they've been a full blown breed for decades so you've more choice and better pedigree papers, rather than the UK where most are non pedigree/crosses because of previous restrictions.

I'd also do as much research as possible on the breed. They are not lapdogs. They tend to retain the destructive tendencies of their ancestry, as well as the prey drive and immense stamina and cunning. They need crazy levels of attention, better a second dog for company(though can be dog agressive) and never mind huge exercise and socialisation requirements. They're not like a German Shepherd and the like that is much more focused on his masters/mistresses bidding. On the other hand they also retain the vigour of their ancestry and tend to love longer than a similar sized breed.

If this is your first dog? No, no thrice no. If your only experience of dogs is easy going Labs and the like, inc Rotties, no way either. Maybe, if you've had huskies and can handle a forceful dog and know how to train then OK.

All of these reasons are why they never really caught on in their original intended role as military/police dogs in the former Czechoslovakia. They came out of an experiment in the 50's(IIRC) where they crossed the czechoslovakian version of the German Shepherd with the Carpathian wolf. They were hoping to get a trainable dog with all the higher strength and brains and vigour of the wolf. Mixed success even with intensive breeding programme that euthanised scores of pups that didn't measure up. The Saarloos is an interesting one. In that case it was one bloke who wanted to make very healthy dogs immune to distemper. IT didn't work. Their tendency is to be very twitchy as a breed. Though some rare ones did make it as guide dogs. The Lupo Italiano is another of these breeds. Bred specifically for mountain and wilderness search and rescue teams in Italy(actually illegal for a civilian to have one). Actually all these breeds make incredible SAR dogs. They can follow a trail waaaay better than a bloodhound and have enormous stamina. If you ever get stuck up an Italian or eastern European mountain pray the SAR teams have a couple of these lads on board, well before their wild ancestors get a sniff of you. Actually truth is their ancestors will leave you well alone unless you're stranded with Liam Neeson...

Oberlus

Thanks Wibbs,

The breeder is a friend of mine from my home country, I trust him 100% and know how he works, in Spain there is an asociation of this breed lovers and my friend is very wellknown and has written a book in Spanish. So, I know the breed, I've read books about the breed, how to socialize, how to interact with them, etc. So, the only issue I am finding is an insurance. So as per your reply, I don't know if I understood properly, can I get an insurance from a different European country? Will it cover in case something happens in Ireland, would vet fees be included in Ireland?

Thank you very much for your time!

Wibbs

Good to hear you've had a good think and have a background with the breed. Good point re insurance from a different country. I dunno if it would be recognised here though. Maybe someone else does. IMHO pet insurance has become a bit of a scam and has driven up costs as medical insurance invariably does.

syklops

Even after reading the books I would still recommend caution getting this type of dog. Could you borrow one of your friends ones for a week so you can see just how energetic they are? I would love one, but I would want to be working as a game keeper or something where I was on the ground all day. This won't sit by the fire waiting for you to get home from the office. There is a reason why Czech/Slovak police use German Shepherds(and Yorkshire terriers ) and not these as working dogs. Even an 8 hour shift on the beat isn't enough to wear them out. Do you work outside all the time? If not, or if you can't have the dog with you basically 24/7, I'm not sure if this is the dog for you.

Wibbs

To be fair S they're not that bad. Just not for someone new to dogs or someone buying one for fashion or on a whim. No dogs should be, but some are worse than others. My previous post was intended for someone who saw a pic online and thought "ahhhh they're looovely" and maybe hadn't considered the whole idea beyond that.

If Oberlus has done the research, knows the breeder and likely temperament of the dogs in question then and is willing to put the time in early on, I don't see the issue beyond the hype around the "wolf" part of their name and it can be hype more than not, considering the wolf DNA is pretty dilute at this stage. Plus many a late 19th century gent kept actual European wolves as "pets", including Von Stephanitz the founder of the German Shepherd breed(and added same to that breed early on). I must try and dig up some of the literature and links on that score. It seems the European subspecies is far more amenable to human contact and interaction than the North American.

While not a common breed in Europe there are enough of them about. I know two people in Europe with Vicaks(and a woman in the UK with two, though not full pedigrees) and they're fine. Only one is neutered too. The two in Europe live in apartments, don't even have a garden to run around in and they're fine, easy going well adjusted dogs. They were all real handfuls as pups and youngsters, eating sofas and the like, but calmed down as they aged.

One of the European guys has had huskies all his life and he reckons they're much easier in many ways than the working line huskies. So long as they're not bored and they get bored easily. EG While their recall isn't 100% they're far better than most huskies in this regard. They're happier to stay indoors too.

They're very owner/family centric dogs which can be an issue as they get very upset if the owners/family's away for very long. Major separation anxiety. One reason why S's suggestion of borrowing one wouldn't really work. You'd not be dealing with a happy dog. The guys I know with them bring them on holidays with them because of this, so that may be restrictive for potential owners. The guy with the husky experience has trained his guy and won prizes with him. He reckons they're midway between a husky and a shepherd on this score. Very independent streak but with the family dependence thing going on. It's why they and the Lupo Italiano breeds are so good at SAR, they can be relied to work independently out of sight of the handler in tracking. Funny this, rather than stamina is why they weren't so great as police dogs. For a start they weren't great at the attack and pinning naughty people. They didn't really go for that on command. The other problem was that in the rare instances if they did feel that they or their master was threatened they would press the attack and couldn't be easily called off. Not good with a dog that has a bite strength that makes a Pitbull look weak.

On the other hand I've heard the Saarloos wolfdog can be a right pain. Very nervous animal. Though that said a friend of a friend had one in the Meath neck of the woods and she was a dote. So...

syklops

I didn't post here because I was sticking my oar in. I know people with the breed. Both live in apartments, but if left alone for any length of time or if they don't get enough exercise they will either destroy the inside of the apartment, or get out and go wander. I have brought one of the dogs home to his a owner a few times. They are very smart, very energetic, not to mention big dogs with big appetites. Getting an animal like this as your first dog, is really inadvisable.

Wibbs

syklops wrote: »

I didn't post here because I was sticking my oar in. I know people with the breed. Both live in apartments, but if left alone for any length of time or if they don't get enough exercise they will either destroy the inside of the apartment, or get out and go wander. I have brought one of the dogs home to his a owner a few times. They are very smart, very energetic, not to mention big dogs with big appetites. Getting an animal like this as your first dog, is really inadvisable.

Oh I agree 100% S. Not for a first time dog owner or "part time" owner and I made that part clear. I'd not recommend Malamutes, Siberians* or Akitas to "newbies" for similar reasons. You could add a number of other breeds to the list of dogs people shouldn't own unless they know what to expect and know what they're doing and are prepared to do it. I'm just suggesting that the wolf part is what can get peoples hype gland up to high do and can put a slant on it. Often erroneously.



*personally given a choice between a Sibe and a Vicak I'd take the latter any day of the week.

Oberlus

Thank you to both of you. I appreciate your advises.

I read that the only park in Dublin for dogs is in Marley Park, I went to check it and there were few dogs. Do you know any other place good enough to socialize a puppy?

BillyMitchel

Oberlus wrote: »

Thank you to both of you. I appreciate your advises.

I read that the only park in Dublin for dogs is in Marley Park, I went to check it and there were few dogs. Do you know any other place good enough to socialize a puppy?

The IKC run a puppy socializing class every Tuesday, its just beside the Airport and is only a 5euro. If that's to far there is a few training schools that do them on weekends too, cant remember the names but a quick Google search will sort you out, they aren't that expensive either.

When you getting this dog? Some good reading in all the previous posts!

Oberlus

cheers! probably next June