What is the average wage in Ireland?

maninasia

I simply don't agree with the idea of 'generous minimum wage'.
The nominal amount per hour matters most especially after tax earnings . In that regard Ireland is definitely top 5 in the world!

My point about legal and illegal migrants moving to Ireland to work minimum wage jobs is because they can live 10 or 20 to a house and come out with good cash savings from their perspective. They would not move to Colombia for this daft notion of 'generous minimum wage'. For native Irish most won't and don't need to live like that.

Colombia's minimum wage is 1.18 USD/hour!
Irelands wage is 9.32 times Colombia's ,meaning you would need to work 9.32 the hours to get the same money into your hand as Colombia!
You would need to work more than nine months for the same nominal amount as 1 month in Ireland.
Working 8 hours a day in Colombia you would get slightly more than 9 euros. Not going to get you very far anywhere is it?

Peregrinus

Nonsense. What matters in the level of the minimum wage relative to earnings in the economy concerned, and to the cost of living in that economy. The notion that the proper level of the minimum wage should be set by reference to how it would look to an illegal immigrant is ridiculous. Setting the minimum wage by reference to this criteria would be a case of a very small tail wagging a very large dog; the minimum wage is not devised as an instrument of immigration policy.

maninasia

Nonsense, so how come there's not a huge rush of people moving to Colombia from Venuzuela and Brazil?

How come they come 1000s of miles across the Atlantic the to work minimum wage jobs in Ireland instead?

How come Irish aren't moving to Colombia to work these generous minimum wage jobs of 1.18 USD/hour?

Peregrinus

maninasia wrote: »

Nonsense, so how come there's not a huge rush of people moving to Colombia from Venuzuela and Brazil?

For all I know, there is. Or, if there isn't, it could be that there are legal, cultural or other barriers to migration. Or, other aspects of Colombian life may militate against this. Or - here's a thought - maybe the minimum wage isn't the huge driver of migration that you seem to assume?

maninasia wrote: »

How come they come 1000s of miles across the Atlantic the to work minimum wage jobs in Ireland instead?

Ireland's a safer country? Ireland offers better jobs, or better study opportunities? The Portugal-Brazil connection makes it easier for them to get into the EU than into Colombia?

maninasia wrote: »

How come Irish aren't moving to Colombia to work these generous minimum wage jobs of 1.18 USD/hour?

For that matter, how come Colombians aren't moving to Ireland in such vast numbers, if the minimum wage is the driver you think it is? i cautiously suggest that your beliefs about this are not evidence-based.

I come back to the point I already made, and you choose to ignore. The minimum wage isn't primarily an instrument of immigration policy. It's not raised or lowered with a view to adjusting migration levels; that is not its function.

We could erode the quality of life for the low-paid in Ireland in a variety of ways in order to reduce immigration, but it does seem like a rather self-destructive policy, doesn't it? And I'm unclear as to why you think we should focus on the minimum wage. There are lots of ways in which we could make life in Ireland more horrible; why do you pick on this one?

blanch152

Peregrinus wrote: »

If we drop the rather difficult-to-define concept of "better off" and just look at who enjoys the most generous minimum wage, I suggest the appropriate comparison is the minimum wage expressed in relation to typical earnings for the economy concerned. (A minimum wage which is high in absolute terms may still leave you suffering significant poverty and social exclusion if you live in a high-earning, high-spending economy.) This table from the OECD ranks OECD members in terms of their minimum wage in relation to median earnings. On this measure, the most generous minimum wage is in Columbia; the least generous is in the United States. Ireland is ranked towards the bottom, 25th out of 33 countries. Canada, the UK, Germany and France are all ahead of us. The most generous minimum wage in the Anglosphere is paid in New Zealand, followed by Australia; the least generous in the US. The most generous minimum wage in the EU is paid in France; the least generous in Spain.

It is not as simple as that.

The mere fact that a basket case such as Colombia ends up with the most generous minimum wage shows the futility of your measurement. A proper assessment would take into account, both the absolute level of the minimum wage as already pointed, the relationship with median earnings as you suggest, but also some element of the level of social protection. Even then, how do you conclude which is best for society, especially if you wish to reward those who work hardest?

Turned into a decent discussion of the average wage of Venezuela, this

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

maninasia wrote: »

Nonsense, so how come there's not a huge rush of people moving to Colombia from Venuzuela and Brazil?

There are millions of illegal Venezuelan immigrants in Colombia and more come every day. It's been all over the news for months.

blanch152 wrote: »

It is not as simple as that.

The mere fact that a basket case such as Colombia ends up with the most generous minimum wage shows the futility of your measurement. A proper assessment would take into account, both the absolute level of the minimum wage as already pointed, the relationship with median earnings as you suggest, but also some element of the level of social protection. Even then, how do you conclude which is best for society, especially if you wish to reward those who work hardest?

It's hardly fair to describe Colombia as a 'basket case' considering the changes that have come over the country in recent years. It's currently a safer place than many of its neighbours and has a stronger economy than almost anywhere else in Latin America.

Peregrinus

blanch152 wrote: »

A proper assessment would take into account, both the absolute level of the minimum wage as already pointed, the relationship with median earnings as you suggest, but also some element of the level of social protection.

I agree. And, in addition to those things, the cost of living, in particular the cost of the basics of life, and the accessibility of oppportunities to improve your position so that you don't always have to be a low-earner. So whether low earners are better off in Ireland than in some other country may actually involve quite a complex judgment, and a useful answer may have to be more than a simple "yes" or "no".

blanch152 wrote: »

Even then, how do you conclude which is best for society, especially if you wish to reward those who work hardest?

That's a good point, but a whole different point. The question raised by maninasia is whether Ireland is, relatively speaking, the best country to be in if you are a low-paid worker. Whether being a good place for low-paid workers is a good thing for society at large is a whole other question. In order to be a good place for low-paid workers, what does a society have to pay or sacrifice, what compromises has it made, and is that justified, given the outcome? Maninasia is preoccupied with the effect that a favourable position for low earners has on people's migration choices. I've said before that I think that's a small tail wagging a very large dog, but there could certainly be other issues that we need to be considering here, like the effect on incentives to improve one's earnings.
'

Geuze

Geuze wrote: »

2016 earnings data published just now.

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elca/earningsandlabourcostsannualdata2016/

Average earnings = 36,919, up 400 from 2015

Average for full-time workers = 45,611

Average in industry = 44,821

2017 data published this week

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elca/earningsandlabourcostsannualdata2017/

Average earnings, both PT and FT workers:

2015 = 36,458
2016 = 36,920
2017 = 37,646


Average for full-time workers

2015 = 45,059
2016 = 45,627
2017 = 46,402

Five year growth rates = 4.3-4.4%




Definition: Wages and Salaries

All wages and salaries payments are gross (i.e. before deduction of income tax and employees' PRSI contributions and levies such as the public sector pension levy). In the analysis, the total wages and salaries are divided into:

- Regular earnings: payments made regularly at each pay period during the year, excluding all irregular and overtime earnings.

- Overtime earnings: payment for hours worked in excess of normal hours.

- Total earnings excluding irregular earnings: regular earnings + overtime earnings.

- Irregular earnings: bonuses which are not paid regularly at each pay period. For example: end of quarter or year productivity bonus.

- Apprentice/Trainees earnings: total of apprentices & trainees' regular wages and salaries, overtime and irregular bonuses and allowances.

- Total earnings: total of regular earnings, overtime earnings and irregular earnings.

Geuze

Average hourly earnings have crossed 23 euro, SA.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elcq/earningsandlabourcostsq22018finalq32018preliminaryestimates/

Average weekly earnings approaching 750.



Wages and Salaries

All wages and salaries payments are gross (i.e. before deduction of income tax and employees’ PRSI contributions and levies such as the public sector pension levy). In the analysis, the total wages and salaries are divided into:

- Regular earnings: payments made regularly at each pay period during the year, excluding all irregular and overtime earnings.

- Overtime earnings: payment for hours worked in excess of normal hours.

- Total earnings excluding irregular earnings: regular earnings + overtime earnings.

- Irregular earnings: bonuses which are not paid regularly at each pay period. For example: end of quarter or year productivity bonus.

- Apprentices/Trainees earnings: total of apprentices & trainees' regular wages and salaries, overtime and irregular bonuses and allowances.

- Total earnings: total of regular earnings, overtime earnings and irregular earnings.

Geuze

Great to see better data on this, published today by the CSO:

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-eaads/earningsanalysisusingadministrativedatasources2018/

2018 data

mean annual earnings = 44k
median annual earnings = 36k

Note that this includes the effects of PT workers.

The data is published down to county level.