Changed to Raw :-)

tk123

PrincipessaBox wrote: »

I have just checked this Tripe from Natures menu but from what I have seen it seems like more processed tripe than it should be (or I want it to be:) It would be perfect to find a local butcher who would want to sell it, otherwise I will get it from Slaney again or something. Its very convinient in packs of 500g, and its unprocessed.
I have to say I am so jealous on all of you who have extra freezer.. I don't have space enough for everything I want; especially for those chicken feet and necks, marrow bones and joint bones which are huge.. I can order only food for app.3 weeks because my dog gets around 500-800g of chub-package daily plus some extras like chicken legs, oxtail, or anything I find in stores.

I started with one drawer, then a under counter freezer, then the upright freezer lol! :P

nowayout1

Hey I have a 6 month old GSD and sort of looking into a raw feed diet, any useful tips in doing it? Found a place in Clondalkin that sells minced meat with veg and organs already in the Chubb. For him how long would 12kg of raw feed last? Would we need to get a chest freezer to freeze it? What's the best way of sorting it out for feeds? Does it smell bad?

tk123

nowayout1 wrote: »

Hey I have a 6 month old GSD and sort of looking into a raw feed diet, any useful tips in doing it? Found a place in Clondalkin that sells minced meat with veg and organs already in the Chubb. For him how long would 12kg of raw feed last? Would we need to get a chest freezer to freeze it? What's the best way of sorting it out for feeds? Does it smell bad?

How much to feed depends on the pup - the general guide is 10% of their weight but you may need to increase/decrease as he grows and going by his condition. When my retriever girl was a puppy she was getting 1kg maybe more a day at one stage so 12Kg wouldn't have lasted us that long. I actually mixed good quality wet food (Rocco junior) from zooplus to bulk out her meals and save money because she needed that much at one stage! Kellys do a plus chub that has more calories so might be better for your pup and more cost effective? The chubbs are a good starter but you're paying a premium to have them made up for you. You'd save a lot of money buying plain minces and dividing it up yourself - I use takeaway boxes from Dealz and it doesn't take that long - a few mins per bag of mince so worth the saving for me.
As for needing a separate freezer - it depends how much you want to buy at once. When I started out my boy was fully grown and I used one drawer in the house freezer, then started buying a bit more at a time so progressed to an under counter freezer and when the pup came along I got an upright freezer as well so I could buy even more at a time lol.
It smells like fresh raw meat - we're meat eaters in our house so nobody has a problem with it. Tripe stinks but you don't have to buy it if you don't want. For tripe I definitely wouldn't buy it if you don't gave a separate freezer because it can taint everything else(!)
I buy from http://www.slaneypetfoods.ie (keep an eye on his FB page - he usually does runs every few weeks with free shipping) and Kellys

Some of the stuff is cheaper from Slaney e.g.
15gs of duck wings in 1.5kg bags @ €20.50 vs 15kg in 1kg bags from Kellys @ €37.50 (Yes you can get a 15kg box for €15 from both but handy to already have it divided up for you)

DBB

Just to clarify something tk says above... The amount of raw food an adult dog generally needs is a lot less than a puppy... 10% of body weight would be too much for your dog now, I think.
Adult dogs generally need 2-3% of their body weight per day... My 40kg GSD would therefore need 800-1200g per day. As it happens, and you will find that you need to go with the flow, she needs no more than 800g per day, any more and she'll put on weight, but she is a supremely chilled-out dog, not a busy bee which would need more food. Just to give you an idea using my dog as illustration.
Have a good, thorough read of this thread and the links on it, so that you get a feel for how much meat vs offal vs meaty bones vs veg (if you feed it) you need to be aiming for.

tk123

Sorry I remembered a FB group I'm on has a chart for puppies - they say 6% weight for a 5-9 month old pup.

SillyMangoX

Don't know if anyone here raw feeds cats, but maybe someone might have advise?
I like to supplement my guys food with a bit of raw every now and again, at the moment they're on high quality wet and dry food. But I just feel adding in some raw may give a little oomph? They get raw wings every now and again, but this is time consuming as they wont crunch the bone unless I'm holding the other end, otherwise they just lick it.
When I'm cooking, I drop little scraps and off cuts for them, and if I go to the butchers I'll usually ask for any hearts they have going (which are usually beef/lamb, absolutely massive!) I hate cutting up the hearts, I'd enough of that in college! Do butchers usually have chicken or duck hearts? They might be a bit easier for bite size portions! (The dog loves when I get the big hearts, most of it goes to her ) I wouldn't have the space to bulk order a big bag of hearts for the sake of one or two each a week!

Nody

SillyMangoX wrote: »

Don't know if anyone here raw feeds cats, but maybe someone might have advise?
I like to supplement my guys food with a bit of raw every now and again, at the moment they're on high quality wet and dry food. But I just feel adding in some raw may give a little oomph? They get raw wings every now and again, but this is time consuming as they wont crunch the bone unless I'm holding the other end, otherwise they just lick it.
When I'm cooking, I drop little scraps and off cuts for them, and if I go to the butchers I'll usually ask for any hearts they have going (which are usually beef/lamb, absolutely massive!) I hate cutting up the hearts, I'd enough of that in college! Do butchers usually have chicken or duck hearts? They might be a bit easier for bite size portions! (The dog loves when I get the big hearts, most of it goes to her ) I wouldn't have the space to bulk order a big bag of hearts for the sake of one or two each a week!

We feed raw to a few of our cats (one of our cats refuse to eat wet, one will only nibble both due to being kibble fed for years). What you're after is chicken hearts; they are about 1.5cm long and easily eatable directly; turkey hearts would be doable (about 4cm long, 1.5m wide) but they risk spreading blood all around from them.

The thing with hearts as well while heavy in Taurine is that they are also heavy in sodium which means you should limit the number of hearts per day (3 chicken hearts daily if fed every day). The risk of giving to much sodium is that they may get a seizure from it if unlucky or predisposed to it (our cat with epilepsy will get one if she gets to eat to much of it and the size depends on the amount of hearts she got). You can also look at chicken necks (they will chew those bones off easier than on a wing) and duck hearts (more solid and easier to cut without blood everywhere) as well. A great site for raw feeding cats is Feline Nutrition which also has information on what to feed, supplements, various ways of feeding raw, how to transition cats etc.

3dogs

SillyMangoX wrote: »

! Do butchers usually have chicken or duck hearts? They might be a bit easier for bite size portions! (The dog loves when I get the big hearts, most of it goes to her ) I wouldn't have the space to bulk order a big bag of hearts for the sake of one or two each a week!

I've found 1kg bags of chicken hearts in my local eastern European shop in the freezer

Dubs1990

So guys need some help !

My german shepherd pup is 7 months old , I have him on markus muhle junior , I am having problems with him pooing alot even tough they are formed . I'm not surprised if he goes 4 times a day and these are big amounts also he loves eating them ! Another thing is in the morning the gunk around his eyes ! I have been reading up on raw so I can get away from chemicals etc but I'm nearly afraid to give him raw bones etc do you have to give these ?With him been ruffle 20kgs it's saying I should feed him 1.5kg a day on slaneys food guide is this just meat or is this taking in the weight of veg , rice etc if it's just meat it will be very expensive ! I'm spending 50 euro a month at the moment on the kibble , sorry for the long post but really don't know where to start on this adventure ☺. Thanks

tk123

Dubs1990 wrote: »

So guys need some help !

My german shepherd pup is 7 months old , I have him on markus muhle junior , I am having problems with him pooing alot even tough they are formed . I'm not surprised if he goes 4 times a day and these are big amounts also he loves eating them ! Another thing is in the morning the gunk around his eyes ! I have been reading up on raw so I can get away from chemicals etc but I'm nearly afraid to give him raw bones etc do you have to give these ?With him been ruffle 20kgs it's saying I should feed him 1.5kg a day on slaneys food guide is this just meat or is this taking in the weight of veg , rice etc if it's just meat it will be very expensive ! I'm spending 50 euro a month at the moment on the kibble , sorry for the long post but really don't know where to start on this adventure ☺. Thanks

You don't have to feed bones yet or at all if you're not comfortable with them. The guide weights are meat/bone as mentioned a few posts backs I used to bulk my girls meals out with wet food - usually Rocco Junior from zooplus when she was that age to save money because I have 2 mouths to feed! You could even go one raw meal and one dry or mix wet and dry - it's a myth that you can't. Every dog is different too - he may need more than the guide weight or he may need less - it'll be trial and error while he's still a pup.

DBB

I would be very much inclined to make sure the dog is getting bone and cartilage, for the life of the dog but particularly whilst he's growing. It doesn't have to be entire.. The raw meats from Slaney, and I'm assuming the Carnivore Kelly's meats and chubs, have bone minced into them.

tk123

DBB wrote: »

I would be very much inclined to make sure the dog is getting bone and cartilage, for the life of the dog but particularly whilst he's growing. It doesn't have to be entire.. The raw meats from Slaney, and I'm assuming the Carnivore Kelly's meats and chubs, have bone minced into them.

Slaney definitely do but some of the kellys minces are just meat... I even had a rabbits eye in the mince last week(!) :eek::pac:
Personally I'd stick to minces for the first few weeks to give the dog's stomach time to get used to it and the right level of acids etc to build up before giving actual bones which is what I assumed Dubs1990 was asking about. Lucy swallowed her first duck neck whole too as she was a gulper as a pup. (it stayed down thank god lo!l)

PrincipessaBox

I wonder do the minces on the dog raw food market include cartilage which is necessary for joint support? Although I give my dog joint supplement I would prefer raw food rich in cartilage,ligaments... Joint bones and not just "bones" ,its not the same. My dog is arthritic and had cruciate ligament knee surgery year ago, so I am trying to minimise developing arthritic changes in future.
This is what I already new before but I will try to explain that with explanation from one BARF manufacturer from Germany and his beef mince, and this would be key points:
The secret of healthy ingredients from the bones are actually joints. The tubular part of the bone contains fibrous proteins that are absolutely non-digestible and marrow, which is the fat of that dog can get diarrhea. The healthiest part of the bone is cartilage and everything in and around the joint. The healthiest part of long bones are only the tops, pieces of ribs, throats and almost the entire pelvis - pelvis and breastbone that operate inside the spongy, contain minerals (calcium and phosphorus, primarily) and joint bone chondroitin and glucosamine.

So I actually tried to give my dog only beef joint bone but she can't eat it, she just plays with it,its to big, so I would really like to find BARF with grounded bones which would "do the job" like lubricating and protection of joints, hips...
Puppies, whose bones are developing, especially large breeds, would benefit a lot from this kind of BARF, and possibly could avoid joint&hip problems in future.

DBB

I'd be pretty sure that the ones I mentioned above include the cartilage in the bone content... no reason why it wouldn't, as their minced meats (the ones that don't specifically state "meat only" comes from entire chunks of what's left over after the usable meat has been removed for human consumption... bones, joints, mesentery, meat, the lot!
If you're in any doubt, drop them an email to ask!

tk123

PrincipessaBox wrote: »

I wonder do the minces on the dog raw food market include cartilage which is necessary for joint support? Although I give my dog joint supplement I would prefer raw food rich in cartilage,ligaments... Joint bones and not just "bones" ,its not the same. My dog is arthritic and had cruciate ligament knee surgery year ago, so I am trying to minimise developing arthritic changes in future.
This is what I already new before but I will try to explain that with explanation from one BARF manufacturer from Germany and his beef mince, and this would be key points:
The secret of healthy ingredients from the bones are actually joints. The tubular part of the bone contains fibrous proteins that are absolutely non-digestible and marrow, which is the fat of that dog can get diarrhea. The healthiest part of the bone is cartilage and everything in and around the joint. The healthiest part of long bones are only the tops, pieces of ribs, throats and almost the entire pelvis - pelvis and breastbone that operate inside the spongy, contain minerals (calcium and phosphorus, primarily) and joint bone chondroitin and glucosamine.

So I actually tried to give my dog only beef joint bone but she can't eat it, she just plays with it,its to big, so I would really like to find BARF with grounded bones which would "do the job" like lubricating and protection of joints, hips...
Puppies, whose bones are developing, especially large breeds, would benefit a lot from this kind of BARF, and possibly could avoid joint&hip problems in future.

Chicken/duck/turkey feet would be a cheap option since they're all cartilage

Email but do your own research would be my advise - like the German retailer's attitude - the manufacturers (as opposed to re-sellers) will give the same kind of spiel as to why their product is the supposedly the best and everyone else's is crap! :rolleyes:

DBB

Email but do your own research would be my advise - like the German retailer's attitude - the manufacturers (as opposed to re-sellers) will give the same kind of spiel as to why their product is the supposedly the best and everyone else's is crap! :rolleyes:

Lol, that probably very much depends on who you get talking to

PrincipessaBox

tk123 wrote: »

Chicken/duck/turkey feet would be a cheap option since they're all cartilage

Email but do your own research would be my advise - like the German retailer's attitude - the manufacturers (as opposed to re-sellers) will give the same kind of spiel as to why their product is the supposedly the best and everyone else's is crap! :rolleyes:

I am pretty sure he wanted to emphasize the importance of joint bones in raw food rather than saying other BARF product is crap
For example, I am feeding with Nutriment at the moment, and the Beef formula doesn't contain bone at all, it is stated on the web and on the box.
Also, I am looking for chest freezer, do you guys have one for BARF? Which size should I look for? I suppose 60l is too small? Any advice?

tk123

I went for an upright freezer over a chest one on advise from other people - it's easier to organise things and see what I have. I tried out some chest freezers in DID etc and found I had to stand on my tippy-toes to reach down to the bottom so knew it'd be a pain lol! No problems with the upright one at all. I went for a frost free one and it's brilliant - I wish our house freezer was frost free too - can't wait for the bloody thing to break and replace it lol! Go for Beko if you plan to have it in a shed at any stage. I went from 1 drawer in the house freezer -> under counter freezer -> shed with under counter freezer and upright freezer


My dog had pretty major surgery on his legs btw and I've supplemented since as well as feeding raw. It's a small price to pay for me because he's so healthy and pain free.

PrincipessaBox

Yeah, I am sure upright are much more handy, thanks for advise.
I am planing to fill it up with lots of different stuff, now I am forced to only necessary because I don't have enough space, but once I get freezer, I will get chicken feet, necks, fish,oxtail and also try again with bones, but smaller one:) I saw Slaney has great range of treats and bones, hope they are not too big. Next time I will order beef trachea stuffed with chicken, OMG, I was so happy when I saw it in range, but unfortunately its out of stock..
It is not the topic, but after my dog had knee TTA surgery, she recovered well, but recently she started to limp after running/swimming on the other rear leg, I am afraid its happening what happens in 70%; when dogs tears one ligament, soon the same thing happens with the opposite leg.
I am searching for great orthophedic vet./surgeon in ROI, who will examine and do RTG, and determine if she candidate for surgery (again)

tk123

PrincipessaBox wrote: »

Yee leg.
I am searching for great orthophedic vet./surgeon in ROI, who will examine and do RTG, and determine if she candidate for surgery (again)

Shane Guerin in Gilabbey vets in Cork is the best in Ireland - he did Bailey's operations.

Selfheal

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nala2012 wrote: »

Anyone feeding their cats raw? My cat is indoor only and getting a bit fat so trying to be careful about how much she eats. She was getting one pouch of natures menu and some meowing heads dry food. Last night i gave her a chicken wing it took her a while but eventually she ate it all. Just wondering how many she can have a week and should i give them instead of the pouches?

We've been feeding our cat 50% raw since we got her aged five months. She is eight years old now. In the morning she gets one scoop of the Hills nuts from the Vet, and for dinner she gets either roughly chopped turkey or chicken breast. Her coat is so shiny it actually glistens, and she has always been very healthy thank goodness. Occasionally if she gets bored with her diet we will hive her a small Tesco can of wet food. She wont touch pouches, of any variety...

Millem

I hope I am posting in the right place! I have 2 labs 30kg and 35kg. I looked at "dogsfirst" site and it suggests the girls need 600g and 700g each day. They had links to a shop in clondalkin. So could I just buy something like this https://carnivorekellys.myshopify.com/collections/famous-meat-mix-chubs/products/new-chicken-beef-plus
Does that have everything it in?
Also please excuse my ignorance but everything goes in the freezer and then I defrost in fridge the night before?

DBB

That is a complete food, but variety is the spice of life, so throw in the odd egg, tin of fish, yogurt, or whatever meat and veg leftovers you have yourself. There are also supplements that raw feeders use, just in case you're missing out on anything nutritionally, you've got that safety net.
You may have to tinker with the amounts.. If I feed my 40kg GSD to 2% of her body weight, she gains weight. She's not an overly active dog so doesn't burn it off.

Millem

DBB wrote: »

That is a complete food, but variety is the spice of life, so throw in the odd egg, tin of fish, yogurt, or whatever meat and veg leftovers you have yourself. There are also supplements that raw feeders use, just in case you're missing out on anything nutritionally, you've got that safety net.
You may have to tinker with the amounts.. If I feed my 40kg GSD to 2% of her body weight, she gains weight. She's not an overly active dog so doesn't burn it off.

Dbb I always thought I would have to make my own so delighted I found a ready made one! I had visions of me with mincers etc! Is that complete food very expensive compared to making it myself?
It seems I feed much more than dry food?

DBB

You do feed more because there's a lot more water in wet food.
Unless you've got a way of buying meat cheaply, the chubs are a wee bit more pricey than buying meat over the counter... But they're very handy too! If they're the same size as they used to be, you'll fit about 12kg of chubs into one freezer drawer. And yes, defrost them before feeding them!
I'm assuming your dogs, being labs, will hoover anything up? I have found my dogs go through spells of not wanting to eat raw, but they will eat it cooked. You may find you have to do this at first to entice the girls, but maybe not, if they're typical labs

Millem

DBB wrote: »

You do feed more because there's a lot more water in wet food.
Unless you've got a way of buying meat cheaply, the chubs are a wee bit more pricey than buying meat over the counter... But they're very handy too! If they're the same size as they used to be, you'll fit about 12kg of chubs into one freezer drawer. And yes, defrost them before feeding them!
I'm assuming your dogs, being labs, will hoover anything up? I have found my dogs go through spells of not wanting to eat raw, but they will eat it cooked. You may find you have to do this at first to entice the girls, but maybe not, if they're typical labs

Oh gosh I never thought about freezer space! We just have 1 fridge freezer! The smaller lab will eat anything and I mean anything even tries to eat dirty nappies :eek: the older one is the biggest fusspot you will ever meet!
If I ever give them cooked (if my dog food hasn't arrived) I see the carrots in their poo? Should I avoid carrots

tk123

Doesn't that 'plus' chubb have extra fat in it or something so you feed less or for higher energy dogs? I don't buy the chubs because they're too expensive ....or anything from Kellys any more for various reasons - I find Slaney better for variety/service/value because I'm on his route for his meat runs He even dropped an order to me on a Saturday one time when I'd missed the FB post saying he was doing a run and he was going to be at a show in Cloughran.
You could always start with something like chicken legs - you don't HAVE to get minces.

Millem

tk123 wrote: »

Doesn't that 'plus' chubb have extra fat in it or something so you feed less or for higher energy dogs? I don't buy the chubs because they're too expensive ....or anything from Kellys any more for various reasons - I find Slaney better for variety/service/value because I'm on his route for his meat runs He even dropped an order to me on a Saturday one time when I'd missed the FB post saying he was doing a run and he was going to be at a show in Cloughran.
You could always start with something like chicken legs - you don't HAVE to get minces.

Tk I don't have a clue about raw tbh. I just thought that ready made stuff would have everything in all the right proportions! I don't have a lot of time or storage space. I know this is probably a stupid question but Do the dogs eat the bones? I don't want to give them bones that would take long to eat as they will fight and WW3 will break out :eek:

tk123

Millem wrote: »

Tk I don't have a clue about raw tbh. I just thought that ready made stuff would have everything in all the right proportions! I don't have a lot of time or storage space. I know this is probably a stupid question but Do the dogs eat the bones? I don't want to give them bones that would take long to eat as they will fight and WW3 will break out :eek:

Yep they eat the bones and chicken bones are quite soft so won't last long enough to have a fight over! I used to separate my two eating when Lucy was a pup but they sit out now beside each other eating their bones.

DBB

One of the advantages to both the chubs, and the Slaney minced foods, is that there's bone mashed up into the mince, so your dog gets the nutritional value out of them without eating them the traditional way!
If you're short of freezer space, then combining raw with Rocco (or similar) is a good comprise... Hell, even combining it with a good quality dry food isn't a bad compromise either!
Another suggestion, if it's an option that's open to you, is to make space in shed for a cheap freezer, maybe a 2nd hand one? Like tk, it didn't take long at all for me to resign myself to having a freezer for us, and a freezer for the dogs

Millem

DBB wrote: »

One of the advantages to both the chubs, and the Slaney minced foods, is that there's bone mashed up into the mince, so your dog gets the nutritional value out of them without eating them the traditional way!
If you're short of freezer space, then combining raw with Rocco (or similar) is a good comprise... Hell, even combining it with a good quality dry food isn't a bad compromise either!
Another suggestion, if it's an option that's open to you, is to make space in shed for a cheap freezer, maybe a 2nd hand one? Like tk, it didn't take long at all for me to resign myself to having a freezer for us, and a freezer for the dogs

We designed a big special press in the kitchen for them to fit those curver 20kg dog food bins. Maybe a small freezer would fit there? Our shed is not wired
We are going on hols next week so won't be changing until the following week at the earliest. Was thinking of switching to totw or wold of the wilderness but they have seem to have many ingredients in them compared to burns as younger dog is very sensitive. I am just aware that burns doesn't have a lot of meat in comparison. Could I in theory just say give them potatoes, veg and raw meat (chicken wings) from fridge (not defrosted)? Or does it all need to be mashed and mixed?

tk123

Millem wrote: »

Could I in theory just say give them potatoes, veg and raw meat (chicken wings) from fridge (not defrosted)? Or does it all need to be mashed and mixed?

Yeah that's fine! Although I find chicken wings too small - I've had whole bones come out so feed duck wings instead and all good. Some people say they don't need veg blah blah - well Bailey LOVES it and asks for help if there's veg stuck and he needs help with his bowl lol Their tummies will mix it for you would be my motto! Today my 2 are getting duck wings, tripe, rabbit, kefir and veg for Bailey - I don't give it to Lucy because it can make their ears yeasty and she's had problems in the past. Any leftover veg goes in their bowls too. There's rarely any leftover meat untill somebody ie my mum has saved them something

Millem

Gosh I need to do lots of research on it for quantities! I do my food shopping on tesco online. I presume tesco is not good value? I wouldn't mind just making potatoes, veg and then raw meat to start me off!

DBB

Chicken legs are also a good size for labs too.
Amounts... 70% meat and offal (don't forget the offal!), 20% veg, 10% spuds.