Changed to Raw :-)

Lemlin

DogsFirst wrote: »

Up the meat content (include lots of tasty organs etc), drop the veg a bit. They're not necessary. That recipe was to show someone I could get my fresh dog food bill below €1.50 or something!!

My dog has been raw fed for half her life but still doesn't like chicken fillets. Think it's the texture. Feed smaller bits of chick on the bone!! Very tasty chicken skin etc.

It's hard to give a growing pup too much to be honest, especially a nice fresh meaty diet like that. Generally dogs can't get enough of those tasty ingredients! Especially greedy little pups!! Not sure what the cause of the inappetance is .....

I generally wouldn't give chicken fillets but my brother got his hand on a few boxes for his dogs so he gave me one of them for my two.

I'm not sure about her liking the organs tbh. I managed to get a load of turkey guts off a neighbour (who will have plenty over the next few weeks luckily) so I'm going to try her on those but she didn't seem at all interested in the tripe. And she seems to like liver far less than fish or chicken.

This morning I gave her the last of that tripe I had, mixed through with liver, veg and rice, with an egg cracked on top. I gave her exactly 400 grams. She didn't seem at all interested in it when I was leaving for work. The breeder told me she's a field trial Labrador so will be smaller and quicker than the chunkier breed. He told me her final weight will be about 18kg so I was trying to feed her about 6kg a week (30% of her body weight) which is about 850 grams a day.

She seemed hungry because when I brought out the food, I put it on the back window sill and she was sniffing away trying to get at it but then when I put it down, she sniffed it and walked off.

I'll try to up the meat content a bit over the next few days with the turkey guts and see how she gets on.

One question I do have, what supplements do people add and where do they get them? I generally add garlic (get that in Tesco), a few tea spoons of salmon oil (get that from Zooplus) and some apples.

I'd be interesting in what supplements others add though and where they actually get them and the price?

tk123

Lemlin are you feeding white or green tripe?

Lemlin

tk123 wrote: »

Lemlin are you feeding white or green tripe?

I don't know tbh. Whatever type it is the smell is unreal.

I got it off a man who has greyhounds. I wasn't aware there were two different types. I was told the type I got is cow's stomach.

DogsFirst

It's invariably green tripe. It'll be green if it smells rotten, can look brown, the older the smellier. White stuff is washed clean, doesn't smell too bad, but not recommended.

EVERYONE CHECK YOUR TRIPE FOR FLUKE, THERE IS A SEROIUS ISSUE WITH THIS AT THE MOMENT. WE HAVE STOPPED USING IT DUE TO THREE CORRUPTED LOADS IN A ROW!!

Check earlier post here for pics of what the fluke look like. Or type in "rumen fluke" into boards and see how many farmers are having a problem with it. These can and do populate dogs, readily.

DogsFirst

Hey Lemlin, re supplements, kelp is brilliant, probably the best. Available all over web. There are two types, Laminaria (very good, real kelp) and Ascophyllum (not as good, regularly sold as kelp, great for cleaning their teeth though!!). Stuffed full of all the good stuff as well as a few polysaccharides that are only found in seaweed which are proven to have a variety of benefits including anti-oxidants, anti-tumour growth etc!!

Also great is gluten free brewers yeast (stuffed full of vitamins and trace elements).

Also bit of safflower oil if you can find it. Great for coats. Half a teaspoon twice a week.

Any herbs that are good for humans are brilliant for dogs too if you wanted to sneak them in now and again. Talk to natural shop, they're full of info.

Fresh / raw fed dogs don't really require all the extra stuff mind, but dry fed dogs with depleted vitamin levels absolutely do.

tk123

I've been playing that lidl scratchcard game thing on FB everyday in the hope of winning a €50 voucher to spend on meat lol!!

kam3qnwvebf4jh

Has anyone tried Slaneypetfoods yet?
22 euro for 20 pounds of chicken/beef sounds too good to be true ?

Lemlin

DogsFirst wrote: »

Hey Lemlin, re supplements, kelp is brilliant, probably the best. Available all over web. There are two types, Laminaria (very good, real kelp) and Ascophyllum (not as good, regularly sold as kelp, great for cleaning their teeth though!!). Stuffed full of all the good stuff as well as a few polysaccharides that are only found in seaweed which are proven to have a variety of benefits including anti-oxidants, anti-tumour growth etc!!

Also great is gluten free brewers yeast (stuffed full of vitamins and trace elements).

Also bit of safflower oil if you can find it. Great for coats. Half a teaspoon twice a week.

Any herbs that are good for humans are brilliant for dogs too if you wanted to sneak them in now and again. Talk to natural shop, they're full of info.

Fresh / raw fed dogs don't really require all the extra stuff mind, but dry fed dogs with depleted vitamin levels absolutely do.

Thanks for the info.
Is there anything you'd recommend as a natural repellent to worms/fleas that can be added to food?

DogsFirst

Lemlin wrote: »

Thanks for the info.
Is there anything you'd recommend as a natural repellent to worms/fleas that can be added to food?

Wormwood is an excellent herb for anti-worm in dogs. It is highly effective on intestinal parasites. Others include liquorice but to be honest a quick google will give you many more. Use a variety, you can't OD on small herb inclusions. If you suspect a worm issue, like you can see it in their poo, a dose of drontal may be required. After this I would immediately dose with natural anti-oxidants (available in any health food store) to purge the body of chemicals.

Neurotoxic flea drops are almost never recommended though some types are useful for mange etc. Lets assume your dog's not there yet. Fresh garlic and rosemary work well for flea repellents. Clean all bedding areas first. There are a number of coat washes you can make up, again google will give you what you need. Away from laptop at mo

juniord

diatomaceous earth is a good supplement for parasites , it can be put in the food for internal or dusted on the coat for external parasites

DogsFirst

nice one, never heard of it, must look into

LisaO

Freya Savory Self-control wrote: »

Has anyone tried Slaneypetfoods yet?
22 euro for 20 pounds of chicken/beef sounds too good to be true ?

Came across their website at the weekend. Sent them an e-mail re: the dry food they sell but not received any reply

LisaO

juniord wrote: »

diatomaceous earth is a good supplement for parasites , it can be put in the food for internal or dusted on the coat for external parasites

DogsFirst wrote: »

nice one, never heard of it, must look into

Tis strange & amazing stuff !!

TooManyDogs

Has anyone actually used DE though? I've looked into it and haven't found much unbiased information on it. The websites I've found seem to be written by zealots who use it to cure everything from worms to bad weather. If anyone can find any scientific info I'd love if you posted links

DBB

TooManyDogs wrote: »

Has anyone actually used DE though? I've looked into it and haven't found much unbiased information on it. The websites I've found seem to be written by zealots who use it to cure everything from worms to bad weather. If anyone can find any scientific info I'd love if you posted links

Off the top of my head, I think animals in the wild seek out diatomaceous earth when they're not feeling well. I'm guessing it has the same sort of effect on bad digestion as, say, a glass of Andrew's, or a Rennie, because it neutralises painful stomach acids because it's alkaline.
Not so sure about its preventative abilities though, and I don't know of any research, or indeed valid theories, as to how it prevents or treats parasites either. However, if someone can provide same, I'd also like to see it.

DogsFirst

Never came accross this before. Interesting. Not much support in the literature at all. It's certainly used to keep nasties out of grain etc, works on beetles, and mites, a lot on grain quality, but as an ingestible for worming, certainly in dogs, there's nothing.

There's something on cows here actually, and the results show no effect over the control, compared to chemical worming.

Not sure about this. Not a huge amount on wormwood either mind. They make an awful lot of drugs out of wormwood species, anti-malarial, wormers etc, so anecdotally the leap seems sound.

nala2012

Anyone feeding their cats raw? My cat is indoor only and getting a bit fat so trying to be careful about how much she eats. She was getting one pouch of natures menu and some meowing heads dry food. Last night i gave her a chicken wing it took her a while but eventually she ate it all. Just wondering how many she can have a week and should i give them instead of the pouches?

Nody

nala2012 wrote: »

Anyone feeding their cats raw? My cat is indoor only and getting a bit fat so trying to be careful about how much she eats. She was getting one pouch of natures menu and some meowing heads dry food. Last night i gave her a chicken wing it took her a while but eventually she ate it all. Just wondering how many she can have a week and should i give them instead of the pouches?

From what I found googling 1 to 2 wings a week only.

Rommie

nala2012 wrote: »

Anyone feeding their cats raw? My cat is indoor only and getting a bit fat so trying to be careful about how much she eats. She was getting one pouch of natures menu and some meowing heads dry food. Last night i gave her a chicken wing it took her a while but eventually she ate it all. Just wondering how many she can have a week and should i give them instead of the pouches?

My cats get a wing every day each, and have been getting them for about two months now with no problems

toadfly

13 months ago all this crap started with Lexi, €2,000 worth of tests, more on food that cost €90/12kg bag and after three months on raw Lexi has reached her target weight I am delighted and a bit emotional! Its been such hard work trying different foods, bringing her for massive exploratory surgery, vitamen injections every week and just watching her loose weight no matter what we done.

Thanks everyone for your help with all this.

tk123

TillyGirl wrote: »

13 months ago all this crap started with Lexi, €2,000 worth of tests, more on food that cost €90/12kg bag and after three months on raw Lexi has reached her target weight I am delighted and a bit emotional! Its been such hard work trying different foods, bringing her for massive exploratory surgery, vitamen injections every week and just watching her loose weight no matter what we done.

Thanks everyone for your help with all this.

Yaaay!! Well done for being a good mammy and finding a solution for her!

bluecherry74

That's fantastic to hear! It really hammers home the fact that dogs need to be fed their natural diet.

DogsFirst

Thumbs up +1,000,000

Expensive, invasive tests, ridiculously expensive processed foods, terribly hard drugs, swopping from dry food to dry food (with intermittent soujourns on chicken and rice while the "right bag" is found) as the dog wastes away, and no answer at the end.

So many dogs going around with repeating ear issues, repeating stomach upset, recurring skin complaints, orthopaedic complaints and arthritis, mucky, weeping eyes, rotten teeth, diabetes, pancreatitis, anal gland issues, hyperactivity, lethargy

All answered with a nice, fresh, biologically appropriate meal.

Good on ya TillyGirl for sticking with it, it's not easy at the start with all the backwards menusha from the other side.

Now go tell the world!!!!

tk123

Sides of salmon in the reduced meat up in Tescos for €4...and cheese cake for us humans lol! Everyone's happy!

toadfly

When ye just give meaty bones ye get from the butcher for free..what kind do ye ask for?

tk123

TillyGirl wrote: »

When ye just give meaty bones ye get from the butcher for free..what kind do ye ask for?

I ask 'any bones for the dog? ' and see what I get. Now if they ask if I want big or small ones I ask for smaller ones - I think they're shanks? ( will post a pic for identification lol) because the big ones are HUGE like the size of my leg lol and they're more recreational - i prefer the smaller ones because he eats them and gets better benefit poop wise One time we got the T from T-bone steaks - like the the whole long bone if that makes sense not just one steaks's worth.

Shazanne

I'm new to this thread but have been following it and have read sections of it along the way as I try to decide about changing to raw.
I have done alot of research as I don't think its a decision to take lightly and I have even gone so far as to get some gRaw food, which is currently in my freezer.
While I have some concerns that have been raised and answered throughout this thread, the one major lingering concern I have is about salmonella. Both my dogs are lickers - they lick us all the time and I don't have any problem with that. In fact, both of them give me a 'kiss' every night before I go to bed:p:p
I have been advised that this will have to stop if they are eating raw food - particularly raw chicken and fish. As I have a phobia about vomiting myself, you can imagine how this scares me as I would be a bag of nerves if I though I could contract an illness through being with my dogs.
I realise that some people may say that I should put their long-term health before my fears and just stop them licking me or whatever, but they are such happy dogs who are the lights of my life and I don't want to cut them off like that

Whispered

I haven't stopped anything like jumping up or licking. I assume once consumed everything is fine? I wipe the counters with antibacterial wipes after making their food, I wash their dishes in very hot water soapy water after each meal and I wipe their containers in the freezer with antibac wipes. I never thought that their actual mouths would be an issue. I'd be interested to hear what others say.

Actually, I also wanted to ask; how likely is it that large bones will damage their teeth. There is almost constantly a bone available to them, they like to suck on the marrow. If they've been grinding them down a bit I usually give them some oily fish to make sure there are no constipation issues but wonder if I should cut back a bit. They've been getting them for as long as they've been my dogs with no issues so far.

tk123

Yeah it sounds like pet food company propaganda tbh - like them getting the taste of blood and all that crap!

For bones damaging their teeth I've found Bailey doesn't try to chew/bite really hard bones? He'll work away at the cartilage and get to the softer bone underneath but leave the longer/harder parts alone.

Shazanne

I will be so happy to know for certain that there is no risk or salmonella etc from their mouths! I know it sounds selfish but I am terrified of vomiting - its a lifelong phobia with me:(
But I really want to do my best for them and am ready to start once I am sure.

tk123

Shazanne wrote: »

I will be so happy to know for certain that there is no risk or salmonella etc from their mouths! I know it sounds selfish but I am terrified of vomiting - its a lifelong phobia with me:(
But I really want to do my best for them and am ready to start once I am sure.

Tbh they smell/lick other dogs bums, eat garbage etc so if you've been fine up until now I wouldn't worry about it! They drink when the eat anyways so it's not like they have a mouth full of raw meat all the time like hamsters. Anyhoos did they not use dog's in the olden days to keep wounds clean - just like dogs lick their own wounds to clean them and help them heal?

Whispered

Shazanne wrote: »

I will be so happy to know for certain that there is no risk or salmonella etc from their mouths! I know it sounds selfish but I am terrified of vomiting - its a lifelong phobia with me:(
But I really want to do my best for them and am ready to start once I am sure.

It doesn't sound selfish at all, if it's a fear of yours and you think that you wouldn't be able to be as close to your dog then I'd imagine your dog would do better on a high quality dry food and loads of cuddles than the best raw diet in the world and an owner who doesn't want kisses.

DogsFirst

A dog's lick is cleaner than any part of the human body. Containing lots of different bacteria killing things such as lysozyme, the french foreign legion still bring dogs into battle to help clean wounds. Bacteria can't live on a dogs mouth or about his lips. That said, I wouldn't go kissing them on a mouth after a meal.

Raw fed dogs pass more Salmonella to their faeces than dry fed dogs. That is established. Which species remains to be determined as most of the studies neglect to mention which species of Salmonella, which is incredible and highly dubious. Humans and dogs house Salmonella in the intestines to help break down food. Dogs fed a natural diet void of carbs and cereal are expected to have a much healthier digestive flora than dry fed dogs. It could be that raw feed dogs pass more of these Salmonella to the faeces as the vast majority of Salmonella dissolve in the stomach acid of pH1.5. Very little can survive that.

The leap is then that humans are more at risk around raw fed dogs, but the stats and the literature do not support this at all. However, strangely, this fact does not make to front of discussion. Numerous people have been given Salmonella by dog food, ALL of which have been linked to dry food. Studies available on request. There has not been one single incidence of zoonosis between a raw fed dog and a human, and believe me the pseudo-science arms of pet food companies are looking.

Dry food contains meat so it will house Salmonella over time, despite whatever lethal anti-microbials they chose to pump into the food. Dry feeders hold kibble in their bare hands, store on cupboard floors where children crawl. Not to mention so many cases annually of vomitoxin and alfatoxin and other posionous fungals (see FDA website/recalls for these). Then there's unavoidable storage mites after three weeks etc etc. Pigs ears are kept in sweaty clear plastic boxes in pet shops for months and are positively riddled with the stuff, lots of references on this one!! This would never ever be permitted in humans.

Some reasons for the lack on infection may be that fresh feeders are generally better educated to nutrition having been made do their own research due to lack of support from those educated on dry food dollars. Thus bowls are washed more often, food handled with care, surfaces wiped down with appropriate solutions (who disinfects after handling dry food?), poo is picked up perhaps more quickly, fresh fed dogs are statistically more robust, and are therefore expected to keep disease at bay better than dogs that are immunologically challenged ever day by poor ingredients or rotten teeth, they are expected to better keep fleas and parasites at bay, less scratching occurs as there's no food allergy, aggressive golden retrievers (and humans) are proven to calm on a fresh diet, so less biting maybe?! Who knows, but there has to be a reason for the lack of contamination.

As long as you don't pick up and play with their poo, ironically you're statistically safer with raw food.

It's actually really really hard to get Salmonella, a decent piece of meat has to be eaten in the first place and generally the immune system needs to be compromised to some degree. If it's dog poo you're concerned about I have only ever heard of one child eat a (dry fed) dog poo, they were OK. But even if this child was to get infected, the argument stands that would this be a reason to force feed nutritionally defunct processed meals to a carnivore every days of its life? In the same light we would need to remove from humans dangerous lego, chewing gum, hot dogs, peanuts, shellfish, chicken.........

The odds are with fresh food completely. It is a raw product with meat pulled from the human food chain, it will have the same potential to harm you as the meat you buy in the supermarket. Handle with care and you and yours will be fine.

Irishchick

So many dogs going around with repeating ear issues, repeating stomach upset, recurring skin complaints, orthopaedic complaints and arthritis, mucky, weeping eyes, rotten teeth, diabetes, pancreatitis, anal gland issues, hyperactivity, lethargy

All answered with a nice, fresh, biologically appropriate meal.

Sorry I have to step in here. The above conditions can be multi factorial and can have nothing to do with diet. Please don't assume a raw diet will just cure everything. If anyone here reading this believes your pet has any of the above issues please take it to the vet for a thorough check up before giving it some raw meat and assuming it can cure all!!

DogsFirst

Irishchick wrote: »

Sorry I have to step in here. The above conditions can be multi factorial and can have nothing to do with diet. Please don't assume a raw diet will just cure everything. If anyone here reading this believes your pet has any of the above issues please take it to the vet for a thorough check up before giving it some raw meat and assuming it can cure all!!

No you're right Irishchicksome of those mentioned are very serious issues that require vet assistance, preferably one learned in the nutritional causes and solutions to them.

Please don't assume fresh food will cure all of your dogs complaints.

Shazanne

Whispered wrote: »

It doesn't sound selfish at all, if it's a fear of yours and you think that you wouldn't be able to be as close to your dog then I'd imagine your dog would do better on a high quality dry food and loads of cuddles than the best raw diet in the world and an owner who doesn't want kisses.

Thank you so much for that comment Whispered - it is hugely appreciated:)

nala2012

DogsFirst wrote: »

Liver has lots of zinc in it. As do fresh bones. Also a little almond oil on their food (half a teaspoon twice a week). You can apply almond oil topically on to things like elbow crusts (zinc deficiency), run through dry coat etc. Excellent stuff.

Phytic acid (in wheat) and gluten (in wheat) block zinc absorbtion. Also zinc oxide (used in dry food) is a poorly absorbed form of zinc. Hence dry fed dogs having elbow crusts that lots of people thought was because they lay on hard ground.

If you're feeding dry and are adding good foods and want zinc absorbtion it needs to be on a wheat free kibble!

cheers for the advice on liver and almond oil... Does work. Nala had the elbow crusts and after giving her more liver and almond oil over the last couple of weeks they've gone

DogsFirst

nala2012 wrote: »

cheers for the advice on liver and almond oil... Does work. Nala had the elbow crusts and after giving her more liver and almond oil over the last couple of weeks they've gone

Great stuff! Coat and nails will pop in two weeks also. And that's just the benefits on the outside. Zinc deficiency will weaken bone and connective tissue so its an entirely inappropriate food for those keen on good orthopaedics, greyhounds etc. Ironically zinc deficiency also lessens the dogs ability to taste anything. Coupled with extremely high dose salt, its the main reason they can eat it every day. Adding zinc type foods has resulted in some dogs going off their dry food, possibly the taste buds kicking back in!

tk123

Anyone know what kind of bone this is? The dish is 8 inches to give an idea of the size.


Also LOL - look what Santa is bringing Bailey! A T-Bone steak to match his 'leg of lamb' that he got last year lol!! Couldn't resist it! :pac:

Lemlin

My dog seems to be gone off her raw again. She doesn't seem mad into mince or liver. In fact, the only food which she gobbles straight down is chicken.

She loves meaty bones but if I give her a lump of liver or mince, she just ignores it. The past few days I got some turkey guts off a local farmer and she didn't seem into them at all. The same goes for tripe.

She's also fond of fish as well as the chicken so I'm wondering can I simply feed her on chicken and fish alone?

teacherspet

Just a quick question. Should the veggies be raw, slightly cooked or cooked ?

DBB

teacherspet wrote: »

Just a quick question. Should the veggies be raw, slightly cooked or cooked ?

Either raw and pureed, or well cooked, I think the latter is preferable! Seems to suit digestion better for most dogs.

DogsFirst

Hey Lemlin, I still can't get my girl to eat hunks of raw venison or chicken breasts, must be the texture. She was dry fed for the first few years and so it can be a rocky road converting them thereafter. Like above says, grind and hide etc and don't give them the option! Or you can simply pick up some natural multivitamins (better still "antioxidants" which are high in the trace elements too) and put a quarter of a tablet or whatever (dose by body weight) every other day. Then you wouldn't need to worry re the veg at all. They're not absolutely necessary, just adds a bit of variety.

Dogs can't breakdown plant fibre at all so the veg walls need to be broken down, either cook or use from frozen (par-cooked already) and puree / mash up. I just let the bag of green bean/ pea /carrot mix defrost and crush between my fists. Goes through just fine. Some breeds are better digesters though!

Chicken is the absolute business when it comes to dog feeding. Everything else pales in comparison. Lots of chicken, bit of fish (reccomend the oily types like tins of sardine in brine or tomato, salmon, heads best from frozen and free from shops!) and the odd bit of organ minced up when you can get it (kidney, heart, liver) will do just fine.

Beef mince is great but in small amounts, like lamb mince, due to very high fat content. It's not necessary at all. Don't worry re tripe. It's good too but pound for pound it can't hold a candle to chicken on the bone.

fatmammycat

I weighed the pup yesterday- out of curiosity more than anything else. Bearing in mind he's been on raw since he was 4 months old and he's a week shy of 10 months now, and he came in at a remarkable 34.10 kilos.
He hasn't a lick of fat on him anywhere, ribs covered but not padded- you can in fact see the outline of the last two ribs, even with the heavy winter coat on. Best thing I ever did was take him off dry food and feed raw, I would heartily suggest to anyone thinking about switching over to go for it.

borderlinemeath

We're changing now in the next few weeks. Just a small matter of a purchase of a chest freezer and we're away! As it is my regular freezer is packed to capacity with tesco/dunnes clearance counter meat and fish and the remains of a crate of bones my butcher gave me. But I still reckon I only have about 2 weeks supply so want to get the chest freezer and get stocked up.

tk123

borderlinemeath wrote: »

We're changing now in the next few weeks. Just a small matter of a purchase of a chest freezer and we're away! As it is my regular freezer is packed to capacity with tesco/dunnes clearance counter meat and fish and the remains of a crate of bones my butcher gave me. But I still reckon I only have about 2 weeks supply so want to get the chest freezer and get stocked up.

;'( we have no space for a chest freezer atm - we'll have to get a new kitchen to accommodate one lol!

borderlinemeath

tk123 wrote: »

;'( we have no space for a chest freezer atm - we'll have to get a new kitchen to accommodate one lol!

We're lucky, we have the room outside in the outhouse/utility shed/swallows nest in the summer house! There's enough room for a large one but I reckon a medium sized one will be plenty big.

DogsFirst

fatmammycat wrote: »

I weighed the pup yesterday- out of curiosity more than anything else. Bearing in mind he's been on raw since he was 4 months old and he's a week shy of 10 months now, and he came in at a remarkable 34.10 kilos.
He hasn't a lick of fat on him anywhere, ribs covered but not padded- you can in fact see the outline of the last two ribs, even with the heavy winter coat on. Best thing I ever did was take him off dry food and feed raw, I would heartily suggest to anyone thinking about switching over to go for it.

Incredible isn't it?!! Put up a picture!

This should be the number one reason for dog enthusiasts to change to a high meat diet. Think body builders. Protein builds muscle. Carbs don't. Raw meat fed dogs haven't a pick of fat on them.

Have an excellent example here of a Great Dane where the best dry foods weren't "putting the weight on". She was also on the standard mix of steroids and antibiotics for all her ailments. 36kg of rag and bone. Elbow crusts. Weeping eyes. Waxy ears. Sores on paws. Bad poos. Shocking coat. The lot.

We've pictures of 0, 2, 4, 6, 12 and 16wks on raw. 40kg of lean muscle mass later this 6 year old looks like a 2 year old.

kylith

A mix up at the buchers has left me with two beef kidneys that won't be eaten in my house. Any raw feeders around D8 are welcome to them.

DogsFirst

Can you post them to me?!