Changed to Raw :-)

DBB

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I've officially crossed to side of certifiable lunatic. I bagged up Cocos small hard poo on the beach today and made himself squeeze it in the bag as I was so proud of it's 'consistency':eek:

Errrrr.....congratulations?

tk123

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I've officially crossed to side of certifiable lunatic. I bagged up Cocos small hard poo on the beach today and made himself squeeze it in the bag as I was so proud of it's 'consistency':eek:

Early on took a photo of the bagged poo (poo not actually visible) beside a clicker that was attached to the lead for perspective to show my mum lol!

What were Benson and Coco's poos like before switching? My friends setter - you can smell him farting from a mile off in the park before he does a poo - and they're not pretty! The kennels they use recommend Arden Grange and they won't entertain the notion that it might not agree with him and be the cause of his wind, bald patches, constantly gooey ears and bitey paws!

borderlinemeath

DBB wrote: »

Errrrr.....congratulations?

It was the first decent 'small hard one' she had done, we're on day 4 of raw feeding so we had a few days of 'detox poo' prior to this.

And I have to say, he did give the bag a squeeze and he was very impressed! I think after me chopping up hearts the other day he's not surprised at anything anymore:o.

borderlinemeath

tk123 wrote: »

Early on took a photo of the bagged poo (poo not actually visible) beside a clicker that was attached to the lead for perspective to show my mum lol!

What were Benson and Coco's poos like before switching? My friends setter - you can smell him farting from a mile off in the park before he does a poo - and they're not pretty! The kennels they use recommend Arden Grange and they won't entertain the notion that it might not agree with him and be the cause of his wind, bald patches, constantly gooey ears and bitey paws!

.
They weren't too bad, they were solid enough, but bigger. I went through a few different types of foods with them, Coco had the smelliest farts from Hills and looser poos but she loved it, I think it was the sticky sweet coating that was on it. Benson never had smelly farts but had 'loud' ones - so dried food definitely gave him wind. Luckily they never had ear infections or intolerances but my friends setter was plagued with them and she made the switch last year and hasn't looked back.

That's really bad about the kennels pushing the food like that, really annoying, can you not direct them towards this thread? I'm sure they would slash their vets bill by giving it a go, hell even switching to a different dried food might make a difference.

tk123

Believe me I've tried to convince them!! I went from being subtle about it to brutal lol! I won't name the kennels but lets just say the owner has a reputation of being rude/off with people and are based in Dublin! . My friend's husband is deaf in one ear so you'd often have to speak up or repeat yourself but he can hear the farts no probs because they're that loud!! It's so rare for Bailey to fart that he looks back at his bum in shock/surprise the odd time he does lol!

borderlinemeath

tk123 wrote: »

Believe me I've tried to convince them!! I went from being subtle about it to brutal lol! I won't name the kennels but lets just say the owner has a reputation of being rude/off with people and are based in Dublin! . My friend's husband is deaf in one ear so you'd often have to speak up or repeat yourself but he can hear the farts no probs because they're that loud!! It's so rare for Bailey to fart that he looks back at his bum in shock/surprise the odd time he does lol!

Did you leave Bailey there before? Think I know where you're talking about;). Maybe if Bensons coat dramatically improves I might send you some before and after photos to help with the persuasion!

Benson used to do that as well, wonder where the noise of the fart was coming from!

tk123

I left him there once when he was a pup but don't think I'd use them again. Not that he was mistreated or anything just that I don't think I could handle the stress of me worrying I'd say the wrong thing and would be sent packing!!

Bailey's coat has really changed and is still getting thicker - I thought he was getting fat the other day until we went to hydro and he came out looking like skeletor!

borderlinemeath

tk123 wrote: »

I left him there once when he was a pup but don't think I'd use them again. Not that he was mistreated or anything just that I don't think I could handle the stress of me worrying I'd say the wrong thing and would be sent packing!!

Bailey's coat has really changed and is still getting thicker - I thought he was getting fat the other day until we went to hydro and he came out looking like skeletor!

Benson has the setter woolly coat that can happen with neutering. It's also still quite thin in places as he had mange when he was rescued, so it came out in clumps and when he finally arrived home to us he still had a fairly baldy belly. It's grown quite well but I'd like to see can I get the shine up and a bit of thickness to it.

I also want Coco to lose a little bit of weight. She put on a bit after her spay and also when Benson arrived about 18 months ago she started eating a bit more. She was never that into her food, only eating when she was hungry but when Benson landed she took more interest in it, just in case he would take her share!

mymo

Tk, my fella lost half his hair about 2 years ago after I switched to Arden grange. I nearly had a heart attack when I came home one day to tumble weed like clumps of white hair, he rarely sheds normally, just a bit on the brush. It ended up his belly and back end were near bald, with 4 or 5 days of taking him off the AG it stopped falling out. Took about 18 months to thicken up again and I still think its not right. Never again.
I'm loving this raw thread, I will change my two over when I can.

Just to add, went to vet for tests, was defo the food.

DogsFirst

mymo wrote: »

Just to add, went to vet for tests, was defo the food.

9 / 10 it is food sensitivity

The top 3 allergens are wheat (gluten), and processed meat (notably chicken and beef), and food chemicals used in dry food. These cause so much inflammation, which results in recurring skin, ear, eye, and gut issues.

That's always the crux of a recurring issue, remove the cause(s). If someone is punching you in the nose and your nose bleeds, your first thought of action should not be the best drug to stem a nose bleed, it should be to get out of the way of the next one.

Go for it Mymo, your dog can only benefit. If he doesn't, he stands only to gain from the removal of antigens that hammer their immune system not to mention the added vitamin and absorbable minerals in their time of illness. If his hair grows back I might even try it myself....

mymo

My vet never prescribed anything, just take him off the food and see what happens. The first thing he asked was had I changed food of washing powder, etc. He did take blood to check for other issues, but nothing came back.
Less than a week after stopping the food the hair stopped falling out.

I am currently feeding barking heads lamb and rice and he's doing great on it, not as mad and hair is looking great. Grew back fine, just took forever as he's a long haired breed.

So far as I know barking heads is cereal free, the only source of meat is lamb. Chicken does have an effect on him.

DogsFirst

If it's working then that's a good thing, best of luck!

DogsFirst

borderlinemeath wrote: »

It was the first decent 'small hard one' she had done, we're on day 4 of raw feeding so we had a few days of 'detox poo' prior to this.

And I have to say, he did give the bag a squeeze and he was very impressed! I think after me chopping up hearts the other day he's not surprised at anything anymore:o.

Lets see it then.......

borderlinemeath

DogsFirst wrote: »

Lets see it then.......

Unfortunately I left it in a black poo bag in a bin on the beach:D.

ISDW

Interesting new research into dogs and carbohydrates http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jan/23/science/la-sci-how-dogs-evolved-20130124

DBB

Was reading this the other day alright, and meant to post it, so you saved me a job ISDW!
It's really interesting that this study builds on the evidence first mooted by Ray and Lorna Coppinger 10 or so years ago, that wolves domesticated themselves, rather than us setting out to do so by robbing cubs from dens as had traditionally been supposed.
As for their ability to digest starch better than wolves, I'd love to know how good the wolves are at it? I mean, can wolves do it a bit... that dogs can do it 5 times better, does that still mean that dogs can still only manage it a bit, just more than wolves can?!
I don't suppose it comes as any great surprise that dogs can digest starch to some extent... but what would seriously turn things on their heads would be if they find a gene in the canine genome which codes for dealing with gluten, lactose, and all the other nasties which tend to cause problems with dogs :eek:

DogsFirst

Spot on. Dogs can digest starch, it's really easy easy stuff to break down, and an excellent source of energy. Like you said the problem is when it suddenly comprises 50% of their diet. Dogs require zero in their diet, they make their own via glucogensis, same as all carnivores. The sad truth is dry food companies leap on these studies and use them to support a diet of 50% cheap cereal / carbs, and all the other stuff that goes with it. If wheat is an entirely inappropriate every day cereal for humans, dogs are going to fare a lot worse. Ignoring the fact that dogs are 25 - 50 times more likley to suffer pancreatitis (the dogs pancreas has to do do all the carb breaking down, as well as produce enough insulin to balance soaring blood sugars, all completely unnatural), and suffer diabetes far more than humans, 2/5 dogs are obese, now exceeding westerner society. It's carbs fault with us but with dogs it must be something else!!

tk123

Rather than staring a new thread... I got a couple of packs of Nature diet at the weekend to try as a back up plan if for whatever reason we can't feed raw.
Anyhoos I'm a bit confused about the feeding amount - it's basically double the amount I'd feed on raw. Is this right? I'm assuming there's water added etc so it's not as condensed (if that's the right word) compared to meat/fish and veg?

toadfly

Got chicken today for Lexi in the butchers rather than the supermarkets and it was only €2/kg :-)

borderlinemeath

TillyGirl wrote: »

Got chicken today for Lexi in the butchers rather than the supermarkets and it was only €2/kg :-)

I only noticed today (and I thought it was really sneaky) but I was in Dunnes and I had bought chicken thighs from the reduced fridge just before Christmas and put it in the freezer, 1kg packs. Was there today and their pack size had reduced to 950g.

I bought in bulk from dogsfirst when they were doing offers a few weeks back so got chicken at €1.30 per kg:). I also got 20kg of salmon which the dogs LOVE. They devour it, even Coco:p. and I mix it up with the mash & veg and it's still devoured. Defo a favourite.

DBB

tk123 wrote: »

Rather than staring a new thread... I got a couple of packs of Nature diet at the weekend to try as a back up plan if for whatever reason we can't feed raw.
Anyhoos I'm a bit confused about the feeding amount - it's basically double the amount I'd feed on raw. Is this right? I'm assuming there's water added etc so it's not as condensed (if that's the right word) compared to meat/fish and veg?

Jayney, I don't know... I used Naturediet when we went on hols down t'country last year and fed the troops the same amount as I'd feed of raw food? They didn't seem too put out by it in the hunger stakes, but I suppose you could supplement with tinned fish if you think he's hungry on it? For the price of it it's a damn good prepared food, to use as a stopgap if you can't raw feed for a week or two.

tk123

I'm not worried about him being hungry on it - more him turning into a fatty-bum-bum!! He only only gets around 400g of raw a day (as well as other daily treats) to keep him lean - the ND trays are 390g. Pet Mania sell single trays btw so you can get a mix of flavors - works out at around 30-40c a tray dearer than buying online but perfect if you want to mix and match. He loved the salmon one we tried last week so might start giving him a tray once a week for a treat!

The Sweeper

Any die hard raw feeders including a fast day in their regime? My dog's been fed raw all his life - he'll be three 1st of May - and I find his teeth are almost spotless (first traces of brown have appeared, very minimally, on the back ones); his weight is perfect if on the lean side (vet comments on it but usually by describing him as 'nice and lean'), but I find he fasts himself approximately once a week. I put dinner down at night and it's still there in the morning.

He can be odd about his food sometimes but we have a 'no eat, no treat' policy so that night's dinner goes in the bin and he gets fresh the next night (as opposed to being offered an alternative).

I thought about it recently and I reckon it happens about once a week. Am wondering about introducing an actual fast day so I don't waste a night's food... Awkward dog is fed at night because he'll ignore his food if anything else interesting is happening in the house. He's fed last thing before bed.

tk123

Why do you throw it out - could you not put it in the fridge for the next day? Don't think greedy Bailey would ever fast himself lol!

borderlinemeath

tk123 wrote: »

Why do you throw it out - could you not put it in the fridge for the next day? Don't think greedy Bailey would ever fast himself lol!

I don't think mine would do it either! They seem hungrier now than when I used to feed them kibble, even though I feed them twice a day as per before, even though they're getting more 'grams' than with kibble, they're not getting full. Coco just stuck the paw into the bowl and looked at me which is her way of saying 'I'm hungry'. (and she got an extra load of salmon today as I had defrosted about 1200g rather than a kg between them.

DBB

Jayney... I just can't imagine having a fast day here, there'd be war!
But interesting that you do hear of occasional dogs who naturally take a fast day themselves.
Does anyone know where the idea of a fast day came from? My understanding is that it's from the idea that wolves don't eat every day, and may have to go several days without eating.. is that it? Or is there something more to it than that?

tk123

DBB wrote: »

Jayney... I just can't imagine having a fast day here, there'd be war!
But interesting that you do hear of occasional dogs who naturally take a fast day themselves.
Does anyone know where the idea of a fast day came from? My understanding is that it's from the idea that wolves don't eat every day, and may have to go several days without eating.. is that it? Or is there something more to it than that?

Maybe wolves have more cop on - Bailey would eat until he got sick..and then probably eat the sick :pac:

TooManyDogs

tk123 that made me snort laughing cos I'd say my lot would do the exact same

I don't do a fast day but on the rare occasion I forget to defrost food they do without until the next day. There would be anarchy here if I had a regular fast day, there could be cats doing the tango in the kitchen and none of mine would lift the head out of their bowl until it was clean.

The Sweeper

tk123 wrote: »

Why do you throw it out - could you not put it in the fridge for the next day? Don't think greedy Bailey would ever fast himself lol!

Sometimes he won't touch his food until the small hours. Usually I put it down, he sniffs it and then he moves away and lies in his bed until everyone is gone before eating. Subsequently I don't wait to see if he's eating, and if he's not, the raw will have been lying out at room temp for 8 hours by the time I get up - bin it is!

If it has been an exciting day (e.g loads of people over for a BBQ) he won't eat that night. He's been in kennels twice and starved himself each time. He's well suited to raw because he eats each piece slowly and carefully, but he definitely has issues with food. He was starved as a pup (rescue origins).

toadfly

tk123 wrote: »

Maybe wolves have more cop on - Bailey would eat until he got sick..and then probably eat the sick :pac:

Hahaha TK that's exactly what Lexi is like. There would be war if I fasted one esp if the others are eating.

tk123

Went into Tescos on the way home to see if they had any of the tasty pancakes they had last year but there was none! Got 5 herrings for €3.65 though lol!

DogsFirst

Lovely bit of herring. There's whole mackerel in Lidl. Big lads, whole, smoked, around €2.50 if stuck. In plastic wrapper and all, handy for freezer. Do they have a reduced section in Lidl? Have never seen one...

borderlinemeath

DogsFirst wrote: »

Lovely bit of herring. There's whole mackerel in Lidl. Big lads, whole, smoked, around €2.50 if stuck. In plastic wrapper and all, handy for freezer. Do they have a reduced section in Lidl? Have never seen one...

I remember reading somewhere that their short dated stuff is reduced first thing in the morning - rather than the evening like tesco/dunnes. I'm never in a supermarket that early so I've never checked to see if it's the case. I'm usually the person running into Aldi with 10 minutes to closing:o

bluecherry74

Don't know about Lidl, but I've gotten half price chicken legs in Aldi a few times on Friday evenings. :-) I buy 'em all whenever I see them.

tk123

SIGH!! My friend forked out €100 for the dogs ear infection again - won't be told it's time to try a different food!

borderlinemeath

tk123 wrote: »

SIGH!! My friend forked out €100 for the dogs ear infection again - won't be told it's time to try a different food!

My friends setter suffered from ongoing ear infections until they changed to raw. Not a bother on him now, no irritated paws anymore either. They had tried everything from Burns to Barking Heads but until they went natural he was plagued with infections.

My two aren't on it long enough to gauge but Coco only ever had one ear infection all her life and Benson only when he was just rescued on deaths door. (god love him he had everything ).

They're in their element at the minute, bone time! And a nice sunny day to enjoy them too.

180220132634.jpg

Whispered

We're down to raw feeding only 75 - 80% of the time. The rest of the time is brown rice mixed with either tinned fish or occasionally tinned dog food. Loads of cooked veggies though and all of our dinner scraps (we don't eat a lot of processed foods so I'm happy enough to give them our scraps).

I think this is hitting a happy medium for all of us. They are getting a more varied diet, fresher food and most of the time healthier food. We're happy that they are getting a better diet than dry food but we're not worrying too much about them getting fresh raw meat every single day.

DogsFirst

tk123 wrote: »

SIGH!! My friend forked out €100 for the dogs ear infection again - won't be told it's time to try a different food!

Steroids to the rescue! Poor dog, it's so hard to watch.

tk123

"If it was an allergy it would be both ears" .. :rolleyes:

DogsFirst

It MUST be something else so, best not even try it!!!

"Maybe we're using the wrong dry food.......I believe I have a bag of kibble here especially designed for mild infections of the left ear of setters....no wait, what ear is it again?? The right ear??!! Damn this is for left ears......."

juniord

is the food the same price if its left or right ear

bluecherry74

One of my Setters had ear problems too until I switched to raw. Had to get drops from the vet several times and his ears needed cleaning regularly as they were constantly filled with waxy goo. Since I switched he hasn't had a single problem. I really hope your friend comes around tk, she doesn't know what she's missing!

nala2012

What do people feed the dogs when they go away? Its fine when i leave nala with someone she's still raw fed but i'm planning on bringing her with us this summer and trying to figure out what to feed her?!

toadfly

I dunno Nala I guess it depends where you are staying. If we end up getting a self catering cottage I will still be able to feed her raw.

Hooked

Made up my second batch of raw yesterday... Mince, chicken stripped from the bone, mackerel, sardines, eggs, salmon oil, carrots, broccoli and green beans. And the bones fed as treats every other day.

Dad dropped in a dozen meaty brisket bones last week, and my brother... Who is in the kitchen in a local hotel brought home a load of salmon off cuts from yesterday's meals.

My freezer is packed to the rafters... And I must say... The difference in Hugo after 2 weeks is very noticeable!

We still feed kibble in the morning meal and raw in the afternoon. He's not had any trouble with both.

Anyone have any thoughts on feeding kibble and raw (not in the same meal). Should we make the full switch over?

Have a 15kg bag of royal canin still to get through...

toadfly

If he is doing well on both I wouldnt waste the dry food. Unless you want to donate it to a rescue and fully change but otherwise I wouldn't bother.

fifib

last time we were away with dog we brought a few tins of sardines and tuna with us and some of her dried food. was ok for just a weekend away. I'm sure the cleaner in the hotel thought we were very strange when she was cleaning out the bin full of empty tuna tins!! i was washing them out in my shower gel so they wouldnt stink!:D

bluecherry74

I took the dogs to Kerry last year - we rented a cottage and I made sure in advance that it had a freezer. I just packed a cool box with a week's supply of food, already frozen. Plan B if there was no freezer was to bring a couple of days worth of meat, store in in the fridge and buy more every couple of days.

If that's not an option you could use a good quality canned food. I know several people here swear by Nature Diet, although I've never tried it myself. You might want to try it out in advance of the holiday to be sure it agrees with your dog.

@Hooked - Sounds like Hugo is getting a lovely varied diet. I bet he's in heaven. No harm in finishing off the dry food if it's already open.

Hooked

bluecherry74 wrote: »

I took the dogs to Kerry last year - we rented a cottage and I made sure in advance that it had a freezer. I just packed a cool box with a week's supply of food, already frozen. Plan B if there was no freezer was to bring a couple of days worth of meat, store in in the fridge and buy more every couple of days.

If that's not an option you could use a good quality canned food. I know several people here swear by Nature Diet, although I've never tried it myself. You might want to try it out in advance of the holiday to be sure it agrees with your dog.

@Hooked - Sounds like Hugo is getting a lovely varied diet. I bet he's in heaven. No harm in finishing off the dry food if it's already open.

He's really thriving on it! Speaking of Kerry, we're off to Castlegregory next month for our third trip. Must get my hands on a cool box (as above) and make sure to prep enough grub.

@TillyGirl - Thanks! I think I'll just keep going with both as he's not shown any ill effects during his, ahem, toilet breaks.

bluecherry74

Hooked wrote: »

He's really thriving on it! Speaking of Kerry, we're off to Castlegregory next month for our third trip. Must get my hands on a cool box (as above) and make sure to prep enough grub.

If you freeze everything a few days in advance (to make sure its deep frozen) and fill in any gaps in the cool box with frozen water bottles, everything will stay frozen for at least half a day, if not more. That's in a hard plastic cool box - the soft sided bags will only last a couple of hours. Enjoy the holiday