Killer Drug?

Rigol

MDMA was used for therapy under lab conditions. on selected patients. By trained scientists, who took time and care and administered calculated doses.

You're an unselected average Joe getting MDMA + fck knows what. In nightclub conditions in an uncalculated dose. From trained scumbags who want quick money and seriously don't care.

I know from a friend that a 25mg variance in his epilepsy drug needs 2-3 appointments with a consultant hospital neurologist. And he's by no means a severe case, hasn't had a seizure in years if I recall. (an average sized paracetamol is 500 mg)

Some folks in here seriously need to realize how delicate the brain can be.

#Smokey#

bbam wrote: »

I have to say I'm really "Meah!" when I hear about someone dieing from taking drugs.. I mean, they know they are illegal and decide to dice with death by taking them, its their own doing.. Kinda like the career criminals who get their heads blown off... big deal !
My niece has epilepsy from taking E, silly cow. Really bad fits where she soils herself and all that... Self inflicted, she knew the risks, had her fun and now pays the price..

Sorry to hear that. The whole live by the sword die by the sword is another level though thats a lifestyle choice for those scum.
You can test pills and they even have a website to check if a particular batch/logo is good or bad or what strength it is and do them responsibly and you can always say no or puke it back up if your lucky.

Sipping water (max 2 litres over about 4 hours) and a multivitamin the day before and the day after and also 5-htp to take E (which should always only be clean mdma) is a responsible way to do it if you cant be talked out of it. Also valerian root if you want to try sleep and have any insomnia

mikom

bbam wrote: »

My niece has epilepsy from taking E, silly cow. Really bad fits where she soils herself and all that... Self inflicted, she knew the risks, had her fun and now pays the price..

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't realise MDMA causes epilepsy.

It doesn't............. but don't let that get in the way of a good story.

Herb Powell

say_who_now? wrote: »

Speak for yourself! What's this "we" business? I know prescribed drugs can have unpleasant or unexpected side effects, let alone non-prescribed or illegal drugs.

Call it what you want, if illegal drug users haven't been listening to public health warnings for years, they're hardly going to listen now, are they?

From an ex-coke addict, before you suggest I'm being a judgemental prick. Never touched tabs though, even though I grew up going to raves where disco biscuits were passed around like skittles!

There's a very good reason for that though.

xDramaxQueenx wrote: »

You're hardly going to be extra vigilant when you're mashed off your face on said drug, lets be realistic.

Yes, drug users use drugs all the time and are high 24/7..........

Gummy Panda

seanbmc wrote: »

More deaths are caused by alcohol related incidents than MDMA. If you stay hydrated and the stuff you're taking is clean, MDMA is a relatively safe drug.

Is this based on scale?

I always see this line about alcohol but alcohol will have a higher death rate due to being widely available and socially acceptable. If other drugs were the same, would they still have a lower death rate?

anhedonia

godeas16 wrote: »

Generally it's when they mix heroin into either E or Coke.
Katy French died that way there was large amounts of heroin mixed into the coke causing od. The same thing can happen with E usually speckled brown or else too pure and strong causing od.

This is just absolute horse****.

Heroin is NEVER used as a cutting agent. The idea of a cutting agent is to increase the amount of drug you have for sale thereby maximising your profits.

Given that your intention would be to maximise profits, Why then, in the name of holy ****, would you choose a cutting agent whose cost price is more expensive than it's weight in gold, over say...baking soda ????

You are totally retarded.

Sulla Felix

Rigol wrote: »

Drugs are like a box a chocolates...

of course we'll have the wiseguys on who know better. just like jerry and these graduates, they've got the real facts.

Not if you have some rudimentary chemistry knowledge. Most drugs can be cleaned of contaminants with a minimum of fuss.

mikom

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Is this based on scale?

I always see this line about alcohol but alcohol will have a higher death rate due to being widely available and socially acceptable. If other drugs were the same, would they still have a lower death rate?

A little more info.........

A 2009 review published in the British Columbia Mental Health and Addictions Journal

“In terms of [health-related] costs per user:

tobacco-related health costs are over $800 per user
alcohol-related health costs are much lower at $165 per user
cannabis-related health costs are the lowest at $20 per user.”

More recently, a February 2011 World Health Organization report concluded that alcohol consumption is responsible for a staggering four percent of all deaths worldwide, more than AIDS, tuberculosis or violence.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/25/regulations-not-criminal-prohibition-best-address-concerns-regarding-cannabis/#ixzz265ldM0Gg

Rigol

Sulla Felix wrote: »

Not if you have some rudimentary chemistry knowledge. Most drugs can be cleaned of contaminants with a minimum of fuss.

Turns out those boys were chemical engineering graduates. oops.

Gummy Panda

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Is this based on scale?

I always see this line about alcohol but alcohol will have a higher death rate due to being widely available and socially acceptable. If other drugs were the same, would they still have a lower death rate?

Drugs are widely available and subject to less quality control, legalising should lower the death rate. As for how high drug use is, it's not as high as alcohol but it's still damn high and a lot of the times is more easily available, most off-licences don't deliver for example. :pac: Getting started after 10? No drink for you!

I vaguely remember a figure of 1 million ecstacy tablets a week being sold in the UK being bandied about. Let's say that's (at least) 250k people. There's 30 deaths a year linked to MDMA in the UK, most of which are down to a large amount being consumed and/or a lot of alcohol drank and those linked to just MDMA are either serious ODs or are other drugs being sold as MDMA.

Sulla Felix

Buttonftw wrote: »

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Is this based on scale?

I always see this line about alcohol but alcohol will have a higher death rate due to being widely available and socially acceptable. If other drugs were the same, would they still have a lower death rate?

Drugs are widely available and subject to less quality control, legalising should lower the death rate. As for how high drug use is, it's not as high as alcohol but it's still damn high and a lot of the times is more easily available, most off-licences don't deliver for example. :pac: Getting started after 10? No drink for you!

Some businesses could learn a lot about customers service from them. Wonder if fas could set uhp a shadowing program?

Madam_X

Rigol wrote: »

youre unlikely to die from a single round of drinks though.
i dont think ive ever heard of someone dying after 1 pint
1 gram though...hear it every so often.

Never heard of it in my life.

Rigol

Jerry Ryan, Whitney Houston.

A gram of what exactly?


Funny enough there's a programme on BBC right now about OAPs drinking. In Britain there's more alcohol-related hospital admissions in the UK of over 65s than 16-24 year olds. While obviously plenty of that will be down to cumulative effects it's a statistic that I wasn't expecting.

Rigol

Rigol wrote: »

Jerry Ryan, Whitney Houston.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

crazy cabbage

Madam_X wrote: »

Rigol wrote: »

youre unlikely to die from a single round of drinks though.
i dont think ive ever heard of someone dying after 1 pint
1 gram though...hear it every so often.

Never heard of it in my life.

Never heard of it either... and 1 gram of what?

1gram of weed is a million miles away from 1 gram of meth or 1 gram of DMT.

Prehaps 1 gram of loads of different drugs combined in the system but there is a different matter.

Madam_X

Rigol wrote: »

Jerry Ryan, Whitney Houston.

They died as a result of one gram as opposed to a ravaging addiction?

Was it the drugs that killed Gerry or was it the few grand a week of food he ate?

carlmango11

The complete lack of education on the topic of illegal drugs on this thread is staggering.

Most drugs beside Heroin and Cocaine are safer than Alcohol and cause less deaths in relation to the amount of users. The biggest danger of illegal drugs is that they are often mixed with adulterants which can be very harmful. If they were legal they would be regulated like alcohol and would be completely clean.

Before you make unsupported statements that you heard off your mammy or your cousin you should research the topic.

carlmango11

carlmango11 wrote: »

The complete lack of education on the topic of illegal drugs on this thread is staggering.

Most drugs beside Heroin and Cocaine are safer than Alcohol and cause less deaths in relation to the amount of users. The biggest danger of illegal drugs is that they are often mixed with adulterants which can be very harmful. If they were legal they would be regulated like alcohol and would be completely clean.

I'd like to see some research on cocaine in areas like South America where small amounts have been used long-term in some areas to see if it has the same effects as someone hoovering up as much as they can get at all times.

Rigol

Madam_X wrote: »

They died as a result of one gram as opposed to a ravaging addiction?

Do you think they sat down that day and did a kilo?

mikom

Rigol wrote: »

Jerry Ryan

Who's he?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sC8jgrb29o

Rigol

Rigol wrote: »

Do you think they sat down that day and did a kilo?

I would hazard a guess that they had rather more than a gram per day. FFS Ryan was on 6 or 700k a year and still left his family without a bloody house. I know plenty was spent on steak, lobster and champagne but he wasn't *that* fat.

anhedonia

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Copious amounts of alcohol mixed with coke is much more dangerous than people think because they react to form a third substance - cocaethylene which is highly toxic and can cause heart attacks in young people.

Yeah but could you imagine doing loads of gak and not boozing?
Jesus, the cotton mouth.

Madam_X

Rigol wrote: »

Do you think they sat down that day and did a kilo?

No? But it's not like theres a gram and a kilo and nothing in between. You don't have to take a kilo to overdose. But again, these people had crippling addictions that caused then to abuse the drug, so it's disingenuous not to acknowledge the role this would have had in ending their lives.

Madam_X

Madam_X wrote: »

No? But it's not like theres a gram and a kilo and nothing in between. You don't have to take a kilo to overdose. But again, these people had crippling addictions that caused then to abuse the drug, so it's disingenuous not to acknowledge the role this would have had in ending their lives.

Not 100% sure about Katy French but at the time I think it was a one-off huge amount rather than outright "addiction". With Ryan there were traces of the drug in his system but there wasn't anything to suggest an OD as such, it was down to long-term, high usage of cocaine and alcohol along with being very overweight. The slimming tablets he hawked may not have helped either even though according to him they were risk free. Of course they've since been withdrawn from the market in most of the civilised world because they've been linked to heart attacks and strokes.

Gummy Panda

Buttonftw wrote: »

Madam_X wrote: »

No? But it's not like theres a gram and a kilo and nothing in between. You don't have to take a kilo to overdose. But again, these people had crippling addictions that caused then to abuse the drug, so it's disingenuous not to acknowledge the role this would have had in ending their lives.

Not 100% sure about Katy French but at the time I think it was a one-off huge amount rather than outright "addiction". With Ryan there were traces of the drug in his system but there wasn't anything to suggest an OD as such, it was down to long-term, high usage of cocaine and alcohol along with being very overweight. The slimming tablets he hawked may not have helped either even though according to him they were risk free. Of course they've since been withdrawn from the market in most of the civilised world because they've been linked to heart attacks and strokes.

What slimming tablets was he taking?

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/gerry-tells-how-diet-tablets-have-cut-him-down-to-size-122664.html

Here's the list of contraindications: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductil#Contraindications

enfant terrible

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Is this based on scale?

I always see this line about alcohol but alcohol will have a higher death rate due to being widely available and socially acceptable. If other drugs were the same, would they still have a lower death rate?

Is Alcohol Worse than Ecstasy - BBC Horizon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IizSd_USCn4

im invisible

mikom wrote: »

Who's he?

she was in Boston Legal, i think, then Star Trek Voyager

Pace2008

seamus wrote: »

Putting out a warning saying, "Drug users beware, you might get a hit from a bad batch" seems somewhat defunct. Isn't that basically always the case?

MagicSean wrote: »

A health warning? They're illegal because they're dangerous in the first place. What kind of warning would you want. "Make sure your dealer of illegal narcotics is trustworthy"

Ecstasy pills are, in almost all cases, stamped with a distinctive logo and are frequently dyed as well. You might say there are always risks involved with drug use, and this is true, but the vast, vast majority of pills do not contain ingredients that are likely to cause severe harm and possible death. When a rare batch does appear that contains a highly toxic contaminant - like PMA, for example - it makes a lot of sense to get the word out that a particular stamp could be dodgy, so people are more likely to avoid it.

Does this not sound reasonable?

YFlyer

Are yokes still selling for €10?

Rigol

Pace2008 wrote: »

Ecstasy pills are, in almost all cases, stamped with a distinctive logo and are frequently dyed as well. You might say there are always risks involved with drug use, and this is true, but the vast, vast majority of pills do not contain ingredients that are likely to cause severe harm and possible death. When a rare batch does appear that contains a highly toxic contaminant - like PMA, for example - it makes a lot of sense to get the word out that a particular stamp could be dodgy, so people are more likely to avoid it.

Does this not sound reasonable?

This logo - is it a holographic trademarked laser barcode or can any lowlife skanger dealer replicate it with a stamp made from a cork and tea spoon?
What about the dye...available in the home baking section of tesco?

Rigol

Rigol wrote: »

This logo - is it a holographic trademarked laser barcode or can any lowlife skanger dealer replicate it with a stamp made from a cork and tea spoon?
What about the dye...available in the home baking section of tesco?

Still worth putting out specific warnings. Putting out specific recommendations on the other hand isn't the best idea IMO.

YFlyer

Deleted User wrote: »

Not 100% sure about Katy French but at the time I think it was a one-off huge amount rather than outright "addiction". With Ryan there were traces of the drug in his system but there wasn't anything to suggest an OD as such, it was down to long-term, high usage of cocaine and alcohol along with being very overweight. The slimming tablets he hawked may not have helped either even though according to him they were risk free. Of course they've since been withdrawn from the market in most of the civilised world because they've been linked to heart attacks and strokes.

Great buzz off those slimming pills. Think you can still get them in the States and either Italy or France.

YFlyer

YFlyer wrote: »

Great buzz off those slimming pills. Think you can still get them in the States and either Italy or France.

There must be, if the coke couldn't kill his appetite but they could then fair play.

YFlyer

The slimming pills have similar affects to whizz. Don't know how effective they are for losing weight.

Madam_X

Aren't slimming pills speed?

YFlyer

Madam_X wrote: »

Aren't slimming pills speed?

Not anymore, I think.

anhedonia

Madam_X wrote: »

Aren't slimming pills speed?

Yes, all of the effective diet pills are amphetamines.

Even crystal meth is prescribed for obesity in the US, brand name Desoxyn

Madam_X

Madam_X wrote: »

Aren't slimming pills speed?

They can be, some, maybe all amphetamines, speed, ectacy, meth, work as appetite suppressants to differing degrees, I've known more than one person who liked that particular side-effect of ecstasy. Ya never see a fat crackhead. :pac: The ones Gerry Ryan was on were structurally similar to amphetamines, coke has a similar appetite suppressing effect.

Adderall and other amphetamines are used for treating ADHD.

Pace2008

Madam_X wrote: »

Aren't slimming pills speed?

In the early-to-mid 2000's they contained ephedrine, which is not speed but is a stimulant with similar effects. Ephedrine isn't sold in Irish stores anymore, I think most diet aids just contain large doses of caffeine along with pharmacologically inactive bunk under IUPAC nomenclature.

Pace2008

Pace2008 wrote: »

In the early-to-mid 2000's they contained ephedrine, which is not speed but is a stimulant with similar effects. Ephedrine isn't sold in Irish stores anymore, I think most diet aids just contain large doses of caffeine along with pharmacologically inactive bunk under IUPAC nomenclature.

A general rule is that if they're allowed to advertise something health-related then it doesn't work. :pac: Some of the "herbal" slimming pills taken into the country by shady means may have active ingredients though.

AnonoBoy

anhedonia wrote: »

Yeah but could you imagine doing loads of gak and not boozing?
Jesus, the cotton mouth.

That's my point. There's virtually nobody who takes cocaine and doesn't drink at the same time.

That's why the risk is much higher with that than with these urban myths about heroin being added to pills.

Pace2008

Rigol wrote: »

This logo - is it a holographic trademarked laser barcode or can any lowlife skanger dealer replicate it with a stamp made from a cork and tea spoon?
What about the dye...available in the home baking section of tesco?

It's the stamp that comes off the printing press wherever the drug's manufactured; to the best of my knowledge the majority of pills that make it to Ireland are produced in the Netherlands. Unlike powders such as coke or heroin, which are easily and innocuously cut down with cheap bulking agents, what rolls off the pill-production lines is what makes it to end user. It could be bunk, it could be a different chemical to what you're looking for, but due to their nature the pills will remain chemically unchanged in their journey down the supply chain. Given the volume of pills shifted, the idea of someone trying to press them with a cork and teaspoon or similar is pretty laughable.

There have been instances in the past where a particularly good pill would hit the market and be followed by replica with less desirable contents. Again, though, it's not the dealers in Ireland responsible for this but the distributors at source, and given the fact that these "fakes" first need to be synthesised and distributed around the continent, it's generally a fair amount of time until they appear.

So it's worth getting the message out when you're potentially dealing with a chemical like this (I say potentially because I have no idea if there's a bad batch of pills doing the rounds) - not one that has serious adverse effects in a tiny percentage of users, or that may negatively impact health as a result of cumulative years of use, but one that is immediately dangerous to anyone that consumes it.

pampootie

Rigol wrote: »

I know from a friend that a 25mg variance in his epilepsy drug needs 2-3 appointments with a consultant hospital neurologist. And he's by no means a severe case, hasn't had a seizure in years if I recall. (an average sized paracetamol is 500 mg)

I'm curious, what point exactly are you trying to make here? What relevance have paracetamol, antiepileptics and their therapeutic doses got?

Intensive Care Bear

YFlyer wrote: »

Are yokes still selling for €10?

Yes, the average price for a singular tested pill in the UK would be £10.

hatrickpatrick

If drugs like E were legal and you could buy them in a pharmacy after going through quality control, we would literally never have this problem.
Politician's logic in banning them outright strikes once again, and as usual causes far more problems than it solves.

tdv123

anhedonia wrote: »

Yes, all of the effective diet pills are amphetamines.

Even crystal meth is prescribed for obesity in the US, brand name Desoxyn

In the UK Diamorphine (Heroin) is prescribed for some types of pain. Mainly people with severe cancer.

It's also used by some doctors to help wean addicts of the stuff as an alternative to Methadone treatment.

Intensive Care Bear

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

If drugs like E were legal and you could buy them in a pharmacy after going through quality control, we would literally never have this problem.
Politician's logic in banning them outright strikes once again, and as usual causes far more problems than it solves.

I do wonder if this would work but i just look at the states people get themselves in from drink and i can only imagine what it would be like if hard drugs were legal. For one it would make the black market a lot busier, you just have to look at the sales of illegal cigarette as an example.

I do think drugs should be decriminalized but i think making them legal would cause all sorts of carnage (this is coming from someone who has enjoyed recreational drug use for the last 14 years)