Cannabis based products to be legalised

BobbyPropane

"Health Dept hopes to bring legislative proposals to allow cannabis-based medicinal products"

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0911/plans-to-allow-cannabis-based-medicinal-products.html

Bit out of nowhere...

FinnLizzy

Brownies can be cannabis based products. Let the good times roll!

later12

Thread title should be changed to stipulate Cannabis for medical use.

Vastly different, but this development is a significant dispaly of common sense, in fairness.

AnonoBoy

later12 wrote: »

Thread title should be changed to stipulate Cannabis for medical use.

"I have a bit of a headache doctor." *cough* *cough*

- "Why are you coughing? You said you had a headache."

"Oh just give me the pot you miserable f*cker." :mad:

mikom

The Department of Health has told RTÉ News that its officials have been engaging with experts on how best to legally describe cannabis-based medicinal products, while maintaining existing controls on cannabis and cannabis substances.
He said it was not about smoking and inhaling cannabis as a drug of abuse.

Foad.
Only the cunt's abuse it.

More money for pharma when Sativex is simply a tincture.......

Sativex is super strong, concentrated cannabis. Nothing more, nothing less.

GW Pharmaceuticals would have you believe that it’s a “pharmaceutical” product because according to its research that’s what patients prefer. As the GW spokesman puts it, “It’s a pharmaceutical solution, formulated with the ability to deliver a precise dose and with stringent standards of quality, safety and efficacy”.

In fact, what GW does is grow high quality cannabis under pretty much the same conditions as most illegal growers. It uses clonal propagation to ensure consistent levels of cannabinoids. Lighting and hydroponic nutrition is computer controlled with automatic ventilation. It really is no different from the most sophisticated and efficient illegal cannabis farms. It’s a recognised and proven technology now also used by Bedrocan in Holland, the Dutch government’s exclusive medicinal cannabis grower and Gropech in California which is building a new 60,000 sq ft facility in Oakland for an annual harvest worth $50 million.

The difference between these crops from legal and illegal growers is insignificant. It’s similar to buying your tomatoes from the supermarket or the farm shop.


GW takes its high quality cannabis, chops it up and makes a tincture by heating it under pressure with CO2 and then adding ethanol to precipitate an oil. Then, with the addition of a little peppermint oil to mask the taste and some preservative, the filtered liquid is packaged into tiny little aerosol bottles. Each spray delivers 2.7mg of THC and 2.5mg of CBD. What GW doesn’t tell you that it also contains all the other 100+ cannabinoids found in the plant, each of which has its own mechanism of action and effect. It also contains flavonoids, terpines and other compounds. Everything that is found in the plant.


I applaud GW Pharmaceuticals for bringing the enormous benefits of cannabinoid therapy into the 21st century. It’s nothing new though. The medicinal value of the plant has been known and widely used for thousands of years. Only in the last century has it been demonised by lies and propaganda. It would be a mistake though to think that Sativex is anything different from the plant itself. It’s just been wrapped up in a marketing and physical package which has enabled stupid and cowardly politicians to accept it.

http://www.clear-uk.org/the-truth-about-sativex/

More lies from your leaders and so called experts......... "they steal your dreams and sell them back to you".
.
.

wp_rathead

Think we are going to find a lot of people suddenly suffering from chronic back pain

TeddyTedson

Now let people smoke it for medicinal use
It can help with insomnia

cherryghost

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Now let people smoke it for medicinal use
It can help with insomnia

+1! It helped me through some bad times it did. I had insomnia for quite some time and I was on the verge of depression until a friend recommended I try it before bed. Was awesome :P No more insomnia either. It also reduced my eczema to zero, although it's flared right back up again but I also haven't touched the stuff in years.

shanered

Is there many places with the medicinal stuff legal while smoking it etc. is still illegal, California and Holland are the two example mentioned above, but both are much more lax then Ireland's current cannabis laws.

davet82

i'm going home to microwave my balls woo-hoo!!

latenia

They should make it suppository only, just for the lulz

zenno

Cannabis-Based... In reality, this will not be the same as cannabis that you smoke as certain chemicals will be taken out of it for medicinal use and will not have the healing properties you would get if you smoked it. It's just big pharma trying to sell a dud which will not work.

El Siglo

davet82 wrote: »

i'm going home to microwave my balls woo-hoo!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl6MwpboJRo

crazy cabbage

later12 wrote: »

Thread title should be changed to stipulate Cannabis for medical use.

Vastly different, but this development is a significant dispaly of common sense, in fairness.

Lets get something straight. There isn't such a clear cut between medical use and 'recreational' use which is what i presume you are against from the way your post was phrased. Just googled 'reacreation' on a dictionary and this is what it said.

1. refreshment of health or spirits by relaxation and enjoyment
2. an activity or pastime that promotes this

In otherwords healty activity. So when you take cannabis 'recationaly' I would consider it to be preventivie health care and preventive medicine. It can help with alot of aliments and keep stress level low. That adds years to your life before you are even sick!!!

It is not like the people who take cannabis for medical reasons gets loads of benifits and the people who take 'reactionaly' dont. Even if there is nothing 'wrong' with me when i take it, i still get the same anti-oxidants and anti-inflammatory and 'potentially' anti-cancer and anti-stress ect ect benifits that people who take for 'medical reason' get.

Cannabis-Based... In reality, this will not be the same as cannabis that you smoke as certain chemicals will be taken out of it for medicinal use and will not have the healing properties you would get if you smoked it. It's just big pharma trying to sell a dud which will not work.

Use a vaporizer!!!

later12

zenno wrote: »

Cannabis-Based... In reality, this will not be the same as cannabis that you smoke as certain chemicals will be taken out of it for medicinal use and will not have the healing properties you would get if you smoked it.

I guess the Dept of Health don't want to be promoting smoking as a healthy endeavour in its own right. Just guessing, thogh.

crazy cabbage wrote: »

Lets get something straight. There isn't such a clear cut between medical use and 'recreational' use which is what i presume you are against from the way your post was phrased. Just googled 'reacreation' on a dictionary and this is what it said.

You can stop just there Cabbage.

I'm completely in favour of cannabis as a recreational drug,no idea where you are getting your opinion from.

I'm simply pointing out this is going to be prescribed for medical use approved by Doctors, it's not a relaxation of the law on cannabis, which I would support, but that latter position is totally irrelevant here anyway as it's not what the Government are doing.

zenno

later12 wrote: »

I guess the Dept of Health don't want to be promoting smoking as a healthy endeavour in its own right. Just guessing, thogh.

You can stop just there Cabbage.

I'm completely in favour of cannabis as a recreational drug,no idea where you are getting your opinion from.

I'm simply pointing out this is going to be prescribed for medical use approved by Doctors, it's not a relaxation of the law on cannabis, which I would support, but that latter position is totally irrelevant here anyway as it's not what the Government are doing.

What i mean is that some of the chemicals that make up cannabis and the euphoric feelings you get from normal cannabis will be taken out of the medicinal strand of the pharma product. This was a problem in the states where pharma took out these things and patients were saying it was not working anywhere near as the real cannabis so the patients went back to smoking it which did work for their pain.

crazy cabbage

later12 wrote: »

I guess the Dept of Health don't want to be promoting smoking as a healthy endeavour in its own right. Just guessing, thogh.

You can stop just there Cabbage.

I'm completely in favour of cannabis as a recreational drug,no idea where you are getting your opinion from.

I'm simply pointing out this is going to be prescribed for medical use approved by Doctors, it's not a relaxation of the law on cannabis, which I would support, but that latter position is totally irrelevant here anyway as it's not what the Government are doing.

Sorry. Misread you post. My bad

It is a step in the right direction. If it helps ill people then it needs to be avalable to them

Kurz

crazy cabbage wrote: »

It is a step in the right direction.

I don't think it is a step in the right direction to be honest. In the states you can grow and buy the plant yourself if you get the right certification. This whole "Sativex" business seems to me like pharma companies have seen what happened in the states and made sure they control the product here. If anything this will end up being an obstacle to similar medical cannabis laws here as they have in America. We'll be stuck with some overpriced, poor quality and patented product as the only option.

zenno

This country's rulers are soo backward it makes my head spin. I find it crazy that Something like cannabis of which helps in pain relief for some people can be made Illegal. It is clearly down to lack of education within our backward government while alcohol which kills untold amounts of people is freely available and legal. It's insane.

Mickeroo

Step in the right direction for sure.

Does anyone else not think it's a bit silly they'll allow a cannabis based drug but not the actual herb its made from to be available though? Why give the people sunny delight when they need oranges I say :P

Kurz

Mickeroo wrote: »

Step in the right direction for sure.

Does anyone else not think it's a bit silly they'll allow a cannabis based drug but not the actual herb its made from to be available though? Why give the people sunny delight when they need oranges I say :P

The sunny delight company makes no money if you grow an orange tree. It helps when the sunny delight company are buddies with politicians and people with influence like the pharmaceutical companies are.

Chuck Stone

Mickeroo wrote: »

Does anyone else not think it's a bit silly they'll allow a cannabis based drug but not the actual herb its made from to be available though?

Just shows how patently cynical it is to prevent people from growing their own medicine/drug.

It's fine when it is 'corporatized' and you have to go through an intermediary but if Granny tries to grow a bit down the back garden for her aches and pains it's a criminal she becomes.

Evil corporate scum.

crazy cabbage

Kurz wrote: »

I don't think it is a step in the right direction to be honest. In the states you can grow and buy the plant yourself if you get the right certification. This whole "Sativex" business seems to me like pharma companies have seen what happened in the states and made sure they control the product here. If anything this will end up being an obstacle to similar medical cannabis laws here as they have in America. We'll be stuck with some overpriced, poor quality and patented product as the only option.

You are right of course but i was looking at it more from a public preception point of view. I know most people that i bring the topic up with (gently) have a negative attitude towards it. Allowing companys to sell cannabis for medical reasons means a few things.
1) will get rid of the scedual 1 status which is crippiling most reasearch. It is increadbly hard to get permission to do experments with sceadual 1 drugs. Reversing this can only be poistive.
2) This cannabis will have to be grown somewhere. In ireland hopefully under strict conditions. Will set the groundwork for legal stuff that will bbe neaded when it is fully leaglised
3) Change in popular public opinion

Cuple of years down the line and it will be legilised fully. It will never be outright legilised.

Not ideal i know but is a start.

zenno

Pharmaceutical drugs have been developed which either contain or have similar chemicals as those found in the marijuana (cannabis) plant.

This is the problem right here... the pharmaceutical companies will be producing their own chemicals to have a similar effect as real cannabis but how would pharma's made-up chemicals have the same health benefits as the real thing, well imo they won't. If people using natural cannabis feel pain relief from the original cannabis plant then i cannot see different man-made chemicals working exactly the same as the real thing, more dangerous i'd say.

Pharma's man-made chemicals will obviously not have the same effect as the real thing and who knows what side-effects their so-called similar chemicals will have.

ilovesleep

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Now let people smoke it for medicinal use
It can help with insomnia

Now let people smoke it for recreational use too

mhigh86

I have watched a couple of programs on this and they have devloped a mouth spray made from weed for MS users, but have extracted out the thc's so don't be thinking you'll be getting high from this........but we'll have to wait and see what legislative amendments are made. But good news for MS suffers.

Nichololas

Translating from the real world to AH:

Health Dept hopes to bring legislative proposals to allow cannabis-based medicinal products
->
Health Dept hopes to bring legislative proposals to allow cannabis-based products
->
Health Dept hopes to legalise cannabis-based products
->
...
->
Cannabis-based products to be legalised!

zenno

mhigh86 wrote: »

I have watched a couple of programs on this and they have devloped a mouth spray made from weed for MS users, but have extracted out the thc's so don't be thinking you'll be getting high from this........but we'll have to wait and see what legislative amendments are made. But good news for MS suffers.

I don't see it as good news for MS suffers as they won't be getting the clean natural cannabis that works for them, they will be getting a similar product with different chemicals added and this is not natures natural product.

The pharmaceutical companies are no better than the head shops in using Similar chemicals to mess people up.

ceegee

zenno wrote: »

Pharmaceutical drugs have been developed which either contain or have similar chemicals as those found in the marijuana (cannabis) plant.

This is the problem right here... the pharmaceutical companies will be producing their own chemicals to have a similar effect as real cannabis but how would pharma's made-up chemicals have the same health benefits as the real thing, well imo they won't. If people using natural cannabis feel pain relief from the original cannabis plant then i cannot see different man-made chemicals working exactly the same as the real thing, more dangerous i'd say.

Pharma's man-made chemicals will obviously not have the same effect as the real thing and who knows what side-effects their so-called similar chemicals will have.

Any sort of scientific evidence for this argument or did you just pull it out of your ass?

There are plenty of examples of medicines that are based on plant compounds that are more effective than the original plants. You also avoid the problem of variation in strength which is inherent in plants.

mhigh86

zenno wrote: »

I don't see it as good news for MS suffers as they won't be getting the clean natural cannabis that works for them, they will be getting a similar product with different chemicals added and this is not natures natural product.

The pharmaceutical companies are no better than the head shops in using Similar chemicals to mess people up.

OK,,,,,,,,,,put it relieves pain and spasms.

zenno

ceegee wrote: »

Any sort of scientific evidence for this argument or did you just pull it out of your ass?

There are plenty of examples of medicines that are based on plant compounds that are more effective than the original plants. You also avoid the problem of variation in strength which is inherent in plants.

No need to be a dick. Google is your friend, so do some research.

partyatmygaff

zenno wrote: »

This is the problem right here... the pharmaceutical companies will be producing their own chemicals to have a similar effect as real cannabis but how would pharma's made-up chemicals have the same health benefits as the real thing, well imo they won't.

What makes you think derivatives won't have as much of an effect as the compounds found in nature?

You only need to look to a very common example to see that it's possible. Acetylsalicylic acid/Aspirin (Which was synthesized in a lab) is a far more effective painkiller than its parent compound found in nature salicylic acid.

If people using natural cannabis feel pain relief from the original cannabis plant then i cannot see different man-made chemicals working exactly the same as the real thing, more dangerous i'd say.

Why would it be more dangerous? Natural doesn't mean safe and synthesized doesn't mean dangerous. As for efficacy of plant medicine, sometimes you've got to use extracts of the whole plant but when they can pinpoint the exact compounds responsible for the therapeutic effect, they can isolate them and see how their activity can be improved.

Pharma's man-made chemicals will obviously not have the same effect as the real thing and who knows what side-effects their so-called similar chemicals will have.

There is absolutely no scientific basis for that. Man-made chemicals can have the same if not better effects than the "real thing" (Which I assume means the parent compound).

mikom

ceegee wrote: »

. You also avoid the problem of variation in strength which is inherent in plants.

Google

phenotype
clone

Educate yourself.

steddyeddy

I dont smoke it but wont deny that once or twice in the past I have. Its not for me personally and I do think that theres increasing evidence of mental health politics. Saying that, sugar can cause diabetes, some processed foods can cause cancer, smoking does cause lung cancer and drink can cause mental and physical damage. Also according to research all of these things could predispose your children to further diseases and even affect your grandkids.

All of the above are legal why not cannabis which in my view is a lot safer than some of the above.

partyatmygaff

mikom wrote: »

Google

phenotype
clone

Educate yourself.

Clonal propagation is not sufficient to stop variation in strength in plants.

Genetically identical plants have the same ability (Or cellular machinery if you will) to produce similar amounts of product. To make the exact same amount of product, they need to be grown in the exact same conditions which isn't easy to achieve. Say if one had less of a certain nutrient or marginally less light or suffered a disease of some kind, the quantity or even the compound itself may change.

steddyeddy

By the way if they identify a drug in a plant a lot of the time its easier to synthesise it in a lab than to isolate it and continually extract it from the plant. aspirin for example was found in a plant but its now synthesised in labs and the synthetic version is identical to the plant version.

rubadubduba

cannabis is natures way of saying high. pharma is chemicals way of saying low,

steddyeddy

rubadubduba wrote: »

cannabis is natures way of saying high. pharma is chemicals way of saying low,

Do you know its the job of chemists to accuratly synthesise chemicals to mimic their natural compounds? A lot of the time the chemical found in a plant and one made in the lab is the same.

rubadubduba

steddyeddy wrote: »

Do you know its the job of chemists to accuratly synthesise chemicals to mimic their natural compounds? A lot of the time the chemical found in a plant and one made in the lab is the same.

synthesise chemicals to mimic cannabis is'nt the real thing.:rolleyes:

mikom

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Clonal propagation is not sufficient to stop variation in strength in plants.

Genetically identical plants have the same ability (Or cellular machinery if you will) to produce similar amounts of product. To make the exact same amount of product, they need to be grown in the exact same conditions which isn't easy to achieve. Say if one had less of a certain nutrient or marginally less light or suffered a disease of some kind, the quantity or even the compound itself may change.

Clonal propagation is the first step in strength continuity.
The makers of Sativex will be controlling their growing environment and nutrients in a similar fashion to thousands of home growers.

partyatmygaff

Actually, if they could synthesise all the compounds found in the plant and have them in the exact same proportions as found in the plant it would have the exact same effect. The only problem is it's incredibly expensive and doesn't make sense economically.

If they can pinpoint the action to one or a few compounds and then simply synthesise them or improve on them, they'd be able to make an even better alternative.

As i've said before, natural doesn't always mean good and pharmaceutical doesn't always mean bad.

donegal_road

quick.. tranquilize the public ahead of the budget!

mikom

partyatmygaff wrote: »

As i've said before, natural doesn't always mean good and pharmaceutical doesn't always mean bad.

Tell that to the King of Pop.

Nichololas

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Clonal propagation is not sufficient to stop variation in strength in plants.

Genetically identical plants have the same ability (Or cellular machinery if you will) to produce similar amounts of product. To make the exact same amount of product, they need to be grown in the exact same conditions which isn't easy to achieve. Say if one had less of a certain nutrient or marginally less light or suffered a disease of some kind, the quantity or even the compound itself may change.

If you RTFA they go into a little detail on the labs they use to grow, think automated hydroponics and lighting, controlled environments, sensors out the hootenaney. Presumably they do some quality control during and after the growing phase and once it's been processed and pill-pressed. Probably a little more variation in the final product than a machine printing silicon boards (which also suffer minor manufacturing defects), but I don't see why with stringent controls this would be an issue.

And on the subject of chemicals found 'naturally' in the plant and lab-synthesized ones - a chemical is a chemical is a chemical, and yes most often the synthesized chemicals are far more potent than their natural equivelent. I believe the problem with most cannabis medical products (although apparently not sativex which uses the entire plant) is that they currently can only synthesize some of the hundreds of canniboids that are found naturally in the plants, and getting the same ratio in a synthesized product is going to be quite difficult. Hell, there's differences in chemical composition between different strains within the same species of cannabis so there's probably way more between the two major species too.

Actually, reading over the last paragraph I'm guessing that the way they'll go is with several different product lines. Man, I can't wait until I can buy a pack of (medicinal tbd) cannabis fruit gums.

partyatmygaff

mikom wrote: »

Clonal propagation is the first step in strength continuity.

I don't see your point. If I designed an engine five were built in different conditions by people of different skill levels using different materials, there'd be differences between each engine. The design (Genotype) is important but without controlled production, the product won't always be of the same quality.

The makers of Sativex will be controlling their growing environment and nutrients in a similar fashion to thousands of home growers.

I highly doubt that. Unlike home growers, Sativex have to meet very stringent standards and have controls and practices in place to ensure that everything they produce is of the same high quality.

ElleEm

I'm VERY interested in this!

I have been using cannabis recreationally for years, and got diagnosed with MS two years ago. I don't know what the MS would be like without cannabis but I'm curious to see how the Sativex stuff will work for me.

mikom

partyatmygaff wrote: »

I don't see your point. If I designed an engine five were built in different conditions by people of different skill levels using different materials, there'd be differences between each engine. The design (Genotype) is important but without controlled production, the product won't always be of the same quality.

I highly doubt that. Unlike home growers, Sativex have to meet very stringent standards and have controls and practices in place to ensure that everything they produce is of the same high quality.

Would vegetable soup that I buy in can from the supermarket be better than the vegetable soup my mother makes from the vegetables growing in her garden. A soup that she has made over the past 20 years.

steddyeddy

rubadubduba wrote: »

synthesise chemicals to mimic cannabis is'nt the real thing.:rolleyes:

Actually if you synthesise chemicals to mimic thc and you end up making thc by definition it is the same thing. Can you point out the difference?

120_Minutes

Pah. It's a side step dressed up as a step forward.

rubadubduba

steddyeddy wrote: »

Actually if you synthesise chemicals to mimic thc and you end up making thc by definition it is the same thing. Can you point out the difference?

i'd much rather the real thing than a load of mimic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrocannabinol

Comparisons to medical marijuana
Main article: Medical marijuana
Female cannabis plants contain more than 60 cannabinoids, including cannabidiol (CBD), thought to be the major anticonvulsant that helps multiple sclerosis patients;[84] and cannabichromene (CBC), an anti-inflammatory which may contribute to the pain-killing effect of cannabis.[85]
It takes over one hour for Marinol to reach full systemic effect,[86] compared to seconds or minutes for smoked or vaporized cannabis.[87] Some patients accustomed to inhaling just enough cannabis smoke to manage symptoms have complained of too-intense intoxication from Marinol's predetermined dosages. Many patients have said that Marinol produces a more acute psychedelic effect than cannabis, and it has been speculated that this disparity can be explained by the moderating effect of the many non-THC cannabinoids present in cannabis. For that reason, alternative THC-containing medications based on botanical extracts of the cannabis plant such as nabiximols are being developed. Mark Kleiman, director of the Drug Policy Analysis Program at UCLA's School of Public Affairs said of Marinol, "It wasn't any fun and made the user feel bad, so it could be approved without any fear that it would penetrate the recreational market, and then used as a club with which to beat back the advocates of whole cannabis as a medicine."[88] United States federal law currently registers dronabinol as a Schedule III controlled substance, but all other cannabinoids remain Schedule I, excepting synthetics like nabilone.I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed"][COLOR=#0066cc]citation needed[/COLOR][/URL][/I

partyatmygaff

mikom wrote: »

Would vegetable soup that I buy in can from the supermarket be better than the vegetable soup my mother makes from the vegetables growing in her garden. A soup that she has made over the past 20 years.

Vegetable soup can be any number of things. There is no substance in existence that you can get the entire world to agree on as being "Vegetable soup". What is "high quality" is subjective and is up to the person drinking the soup to decide.

Medicines on the other hand have strict definitions. Aspirin is acetylsalicylic acid otherwise known as 2-acetoxybenzoic acid. If I went to any chemist in the world and asked them "What is aspirin?" their sole answer would be 2-acetoxybenzoic acid. If I asked them identify aspirin, they'd pop it in to an IR machine and they'd have a result fairly quickly.

Unlike vegetable soup, the definition isn't just "A few vegetables, a bit of water, some seasoning and a few spices".

rubadubduba wrote: »

i'd much rather the real thing than a load of mimic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrocannabinol

THC isn't cannabis. THC is a compound contained in cannabis. If you synthesised all the compounds in cannabis and mixed them in the right proportions there would be little to no difference.