Pro12: Ulster vs Munster, Fri 14 Sep 7:05pm; Live on RTÉ2/BBC2NI

Scioch

Benny Cake wrote: »

Just when I thought the one-eyed-ness, on both sides, had reached its peak, you come up with this gem....

One eye'd ness is one thing but plenty Munster fans here seem completely blind to the facts of what happened. Nothing new there.

Scioch

bilston wrote: »

You're kidding? If that warranted a yellow card for either player then Rugby isn't the sport I thought it was!

I dunno, slowing things down and a tussle is one thing but walking away and throwing the ball over the hoardings to me should be a yellow. Its a deliberate and cynical act and shouldnt be tolerated.

How anyone thinks what Trimble did warranted a penalty I dont know. A card is just insane.

GerM

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

How?

Hurley held back Trimble who over-reacted with numerous punches. Hurley takes the ball into touch, Trimble over-reacts by throwing him into the advertising hoardings.

Hurley pulls Trimble back and Trimble swings. Hurley keeps ball away, refusing to release it and Trimble pushes him, Hurley swings. This should result in a pen and yellow against Trimble?

Cpt_Blackbeard

Any mention of LOD's injury in the post-match interviews? Hopefully its nothing. He has been playing some great rugby, and it would be a massive pity if he is to lose his place because of a careless tackle from Cave.

Cpt_Blackbeard

GerM wrote: »

Hurley pulls Trimble back and Trimble swings. Hurley keeps ball away, refusing to release it and Trimble pushes him, Hurley swings. This should result in a pen and yellow against Trimble?

I'll have to watch it again. Never noticed Hurley striking Trimble. Vision could just have been clouded by seeing Trimble go in with excessive and unnecessary force for a second time against Hurley.

bilston

Munster

Anyway rather than focusing on what ultimately was a fairly minor incident let's focus on what an absolutely fantastic advert that was for the Pro 12. I hope Mark McCafferty was watching...

It could have gone either way. For Munster their breakdown work (not sure about its legality at times) was very good, they slowed down Ulster ball in the first half and turned it over at will in the first 20 mins in particular. The Munster try was a thing of beauty. I was very impressed by Luke O'Dea and it was a shame he went off, the centres look like they'll pose teams problems, I'm not sure that Keet will get his wish of playing 13 the way Casey and Downey played. Hurley played very well too.

For Ulster Payne was just sheer class, what a start to the season he has and just the two years to go until he can don the green of Ireland! Jackson is coming along very nicely, let's not forget he's only 20! I thought the Ulster front row were immense and once again I was impressed by Michael Allen on the wing.

It was a cracking game and I'm just glad Ulster came out on the right side. There are now three provinces in Ireland that can produce great high intensity rugby now, it's no longer just about Leinster and Munster and that can only be good for Ireland...

bilston

Munster

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Any mention of LOD's injury in the post-match interviews? Hopefully its nothing. He has been playing some great rugby, and it would be a massive pity if he is to lose his place because of a careless tackle from Cave.

Are you feckin' serious? I'm still relatively new around here but you don't strike me as a very good loser Cpt Blackbeard!

Cpt_Blackbeard

bilston wrote: »

Are you feckin' serious? I'm still relatively new around here but you don't strike me as a very good loser Cpt Blackbeard!

Do you disagree it was a careless tackle? Nothing malicious, but he just made very little effort to wrap LOD in the tackle.

bilston

Munster

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Do you disagree it was a careless tackle? Nothing malicious, but he just made very little effort to wrap LOD in the tackle.

Yep I disagree.

What was LOD's injury anyway? It looked like his leg, even if Cave hadn't wrapped LOD I doubt it would have affected his leg.

Anyway O'Dea looked a very good player tonight, he left Trimble for dead just prior to his injury.

On Cave I was a bit surprised he was taken off...I got the impression he was too.

GerM

bilston wrote: »

Are you feckin' serious? I'm still relatively new around here but you don't strike me as a very good loser Cpt Blackbeard!

Captain has a unique view around here. He actually knows his rugby but suffers from one eye disease at times. It's good to get a different opinion here.

Don't think any of us are good losers. I look forward to being utterly unreasonable when Leinster lose in Ravenhill!

Scioch

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Do you disagree it was a careless tackle? Nothing malicious, but he just made very little effort to wrap LOD in the tackle.

I dont see how wrapping the arms around would have saved him the injury, it was the awkward leg position as he went down wasnt it ? Either way he was going down in the position he was, arms wrapped or not. May have been worse if Caves body weight added to it, who knows.

And on the touch line your gonna have a lot more emphasis on forcing into touch than wrapping and bringing down so I wouldnt call it careless as such either.

Tox56

bilston wrote: »

Yep I disagree.

What was LOD's injury anyway? It looked like his leg, even if Cave hadn't wrapped LOD I doubt it would have affected his leg.

Anyway O'Dea looked a very good player tonight, he left Trimble for dead just prior to his injury.

On Cave I was a bit surprised he was taken off...I got the impression he was too.

Was there any explanation as to why Cave was taken off? Seemed totally bizzare considering the game was still in the balance and he had been playing so well (plus he was one of the most experienced backs), put in some massive hits.

Scioch

GerM wrote: »

Captain has a unique view around here. He actually knows his rugby but suffers from one eye disease at times. It's good to get a different opinion here.

Don't think any of us are good losers. I look forward to being utterly unreasonable when Leinster lose in Ravenhill!

You mean IF right ? :mad:

bilston

Munster

GerM wrote: »

Don't think any of us are good losers. I look forward to being utterly unreasonable when Leinster lose in Ravenhill!

True the only time I've been a good loser was probably after the HEC in May but that was because I had no other option but to admire your good selfs.

As for Leinster losing at Ravenhill...well I take it you've been watching Leinster and Ulster play each other much in recent times...

bilston

Munster

Tox56 wrote: »

Was there any explanation as to why Cave was taken off? Seemed totally bizzare considering the game was still in the balance and he had been playing so well (plus he was one of the most experienced backs), put in some massive hits.

No, it happened moments after he put in a great wee kick down the line as well. I can only think MA wanted to get Gilroy on and he felt that Allen deserved to stay on. He seems to like Allen. Even last week Anscombe brought Trimble on and instead of taking Allen off he took L.Marshall off and moved Allen to the midfield. In fairness Allen has done pretty well so far.

Tin Foil Hat

Delon Armitage

bilston wrote: »

You're kidding? If that warranted a yellow card for either player then Rugby isn't the sport I thought it was!

It wasn't the first scuffle of the evening, and it resulted in an escalation involving a good few players from both teams. The ref had to act on it. Reading between the lines, they would both have got yellow if there was more time left in the game. Trimble was the primary sinner. The penalty went against him. Seems fair enough to me. Refereeing rugby is not an exact science, so there will always be some dispute, but I don't think anyone can reasonably feel hard done by by the decision.
Ulster were the better team on the night, but they would only have had themselves to blame if Munster took the win. They missed a lot of kicks and lost a lot of ball. Roland is a decent ref and he did a decent job, imo.

Mr.Applepie

bilston wrote: »

It could have gone either way. For Munster their breakdown work (not sure about its legality at times) was very good, they slowed down Ulster ball in the first half and turned it over at will in the first 20 mins in particular. The Munster try was a thing of beauty. I was very impressed by Luke O'Dea and it was a shame he went off,

I thought the Rollaind let an awful lot go in the breakdown - looked like he had a philosophy of "sure they'll sort it out between themselves" At one point in a ruck a munster player, quite blatantly, fell over grabbed the ball and pushed it back on the Munster side. But I prefer that to a whistle happy ref.

I agree with you on O'Dea, he looks like a great winger. I'm more impressed with him that I was with Zebo last year.

Also RTE = Munster love in. Reminds me of watching a Welsh province on S4C.

ormond lad

Delon Armitage

Mr.Applepie wrote: »

I thought the Rollaind let an awful lot go in the breakdown - looked like he had a philosophy of "sure they'll sort it out between themselves" At one point in a ruck a munster player, quite blatantly, fell over grabbed the ball and pushed it back on the Munster side. But I prefer that to a whistle happy ref.

I agree with you on O'Dea, he looks like a great winger. I'm more impressed with him that I was with Zebo last year.

Also RTE = Munster love in. Reminds me of watching a Welsh province on S4C.

Rolland was ok. Let game flow though could have blown up a bit more
RTE were not that bad(i havent seen game in full yet so cant fully comment)
Billy Holland was good from what ive seen of the game.
I agree with you on ODea, i think will be ahead of zebo for the big games this season

Shelflife

Better team won, but there wasnt much between them.

Rolland was poor, and very poor at the ruck it was a total lottery with both teams though i felt munster transgressed more at the breakdown.

The scuffle at the end was a minor scuffle, trimble pushed hurley after hurley held onto the ball, the push was handbags and hurleys punch was handbags, it would only have been a cop on lads chat only for the all in afterwards.

Overall an exciting and entertaining game.

bilston

Munster

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

It wasn't the first scuffle of the evening, and it resulted in an escalation involving a good few players from both teams. The ref had to act on it. Reading between the lines, they would both have got yellow if there was more time left in the game. Trimble was the primary sinner. The penalty went against him. Seems fair enough to me. Refereeing rugby is not an exact science, so there will always be some dispute, but I don't think anyone can reasonably feel hard done by by the decision.
Ulster were the better team on the night, but they would only have had themselves to blame if Munster took the win. They missed a lot of kicks and lost a lot of ball. Roland is a decent ref and he did a decent job, imo.

Ulster missd a lot of kicks?

Jackson's kicking stats were 5 from 7.

As for the scuffle, I think it was sensible officiating, albeit from the touch judge and not Rolland. Unless there are proper punches thrown I hate to see players sin binned for scuffling. It adds to the occasion IMO and I don't care if that's not PC!

Eoin

Trimble was looking a bit narky at times (though he certainly did not "throw" anyone into the hoardings), but you could argue that the penalty should have been reversed for retaliation and/or not allowing Trimble to play the ball. Stupid by Trimble though, Ulster were in no rush at all to get the ball in play. I'm glad it didn't ultimately define the result.

Murray seems to be getting a bit of flak for not getting the ball to O'Gara quickly enough for a drop goal at the end. But given that O'Gara has a good range and the breakdown was on the 22 near the middle of the park, I'd have thought that he could have just stood deeper to give himself the time. Then again, I'm a prop, so what do I know!

Anyway, as a neutral, it was an absolutely cracking game to watch. As someone said, a brilliant advertisement for the league. It could have been the knockout stages of the HEC if you didn't know better.

bamboozle

great game to watch as a neutral. Munster really showed a willingness to spread the ball around and their players seemed to know the gameplan they were playing, ulster took a bit longer to settle.

thought both 7's were excellent, Doyle flattened the first up tackle most times he carried, while Dougal looks a serious player, he seemed to be everywhere, slowing ball down, supporting players, making tackles. Also though TOD was excellent when he came on, showed a lot of power carrying. DOC looked decent, first time i'd seen him. Keatley will be quite happy to see ROG's dreadful passing when he came on, thought KEatley was excellent despite pedestrian service from Williams. Payne for Ulster looked excellent - a back three of Payne Bowe and Gilroy/trimble is going to be great to watch.
Kilcoyne didnt look out of his depth and will have learned a lot last night.

As for the Trimble/Hurley scuffles, Hurley started it by holding onto to trimble off the ball, then when trimble swung at his arm to release him Hurley swung at him, if you're going to hold players off the ball you can expect them to try release themselves (unless you're Nathan Hines!)

LOD was very impressive, Zebo will have his work cut out getting into a munster back 3 with Earls, Howeltt, LOD and maybe even Hurley ahead of him.

Finally, what position was howlett actually playing, he had 14 on his jersey but he was everywhere all match.

exciting times ahead for irish rugby with some serious talent going to get big game exposure this season.

.ak

Great interpro with plenty of talking points. Some stellar defense by both sides, we could've been looking at SuperRugby margins at some points if not for some amazing tackling displays.

Thought Lualala and Downey are pairing up to be the best centre partnership in the British Isles. Earls looked electric when he came on and proved he has very good hands. But I think we saw glimpses of Munster's starting backline for the HCup when he was on at wing.

Ulster were dogfighting whilst mixing it up with some sublime back play, they looked seriously dangerous. I loved how they were utilizing Fez as well, he was like an extra centre in the midfield and showed some lovely skill with his hands. Cave was a cute customer, I think he's got all the makings of a clever international centre... I'd like to see him use pace a bit more rather than his power.

Who did ROG replace when he came on, where was Keatley playing for the last section of the game?

All in all a great display for Irish Rugby.

Benny Cake

Munster

bamboozle wrote: »

thought both 7's were excellent, Doyle flattened the first up tackle most times he carried, while Dougal looks a serious player, he seemed to be everywhere, slowing ball down, supporting players, making tackles. .

+1 on Dougal. Great addition the side, gives us an abrasive presence on the gain line we've been missing badly in recent years...

ormond lad

Delon Armitage

.ak wrote: »

Great interpro with plenty of talking points. Some stellar defense by both sides, we could've been looking at SuperRugby margins at some points if not for some amazing tackling displays.

Thought Lualala and Downey are pairing up to be the best centre partnership in the British Isles. Earls looked electric when he came on and proved he has very good hands. But I think we saw glimpses of Munster's starting backline for the HCup when he was on at wing.

Ulster were dogfighting whilst mixing it up with some sublime back play, they looked seriously dangerous. I loved how they were utilizing Fez as well, he was like an extra centre in the midfield and showed some lovely skill with his hands. Cave was a cute customer, I think he's got all the makings of a clever international centre... I'd like to see him use pace a bit more rather than his power.

Who did ROG replace when he came on, where was Keatley playing for the last section of the game?

All in all a great display for Irish Rugby.

ROG replaced Lualala and i think Keatley went back to full back

Id prefer Earls at centre as i think thats where he'll be playing in the long term for both munster and ireland but with Downey and Lualala in the centre, a back 3 of Earls/Howlett/LOD/Jones/Hurley will be savage with earls popping up in midfield

thomond2006

When is Doyle's contract up? He came on a short term deal I think?

Zuffer

This was a great game to watch, best game of the season so far.

totallegend

thomond2006 wrote: »

When is Doyle's contract up? He came on a short term deal I think?

One-year deal I think? He's IQ as well...

the_doctor199

Anyone know of any highlights of the game online?

CIARAN_BOYLE

Munster

totallegend wrote: »

One-year deal I think? He's IQ as well...

It was described in the media as a short term deal. I'm thinking a trial till Christmas.

phog

Considering that this was only the 3rd game of the season it was a super game and while the result went against us I really dont feel the hurt, it was a great performance by both teams, the intensity of the some of the hits was unreal. Earls' try was a real team effort, cross the field from touchline to touchline and then straightened by Hurley with a beauty of a pass to Earls to finish it.

Our injuries continue to mount with the Ravenhill curse, hopefully, none are too serious, would be terrible to lose the quality of Laulala, LOD or Coughlan.

The Trimble/Hurley thing is being blown out of all proportion and both players made a point of singling each other out at the end of the game to sort it out with a chat, I suppose that what makes rugby such a great to follow.

I've no issue with the YC for Dougall, my only hope is that it's reffed consistently throughout the tournament. Didn't Dougie do well in both defensive scrums while he was off

who_me

Yeah, the Hurley/Trimble thing was a storm in a tea-cup. If the game hadn't been a (nicely) fiery encounter and the handbags kicked off, it probably wouldn't have warranted a mention. I think Rolland was considering a card for Trimble but was talked out of it by the assistant referee, good job too.

Great to see that kind of intensity, even with a few of the big names still missing. The big Irish derbies should always have strong lineups and atmosphere like this one.

Mixed feelings about it, great to see how naturally many of the players are taking to the more expansive game (though I was a tiny bit disappointed how, towards the end, we reverted back a little to the 'safe' narrow game in an effort for the drop goal). Defence was excellent again, though losing a 10 point lead will hurt.

One point though - for what offence was Dougal's penalty? Hands in the ruck? Is a collapsed maul automatically considered a ruck? If not, it didn't look to me like there were players from both sides on their feet over the ball, thus not a ruck, thus not a penalty. Not sure I'll ever understand the vagaries of the ruck/breakdown, other than "if the ref is screaming at you, stop doing what you're doing".

Grimebox

Any highlights?

who_me

Grimebox wrote: »

Any highlights?

Try here for about 13 mins worth.

totallegend

who_me wrote: »

One point though - for what offence was Dougal's penalty? Hands in the ruck? Is a collapsed maul automatically considered a ruck? If not, it didn't look to me like there were players from both sides on their feet over the ball, thus not a ruck, thus not a penalty. Not sure I'll ever understand the vagaries of the ruck/breakdown, other than "if the ref is screaming at you, stop doing what you're doing".

He was offside. When the maul went down, he was obliged to retreat behind the ball and join from the back of the ruck but instead played the ball from what was Ulster's side.
Fairly clear cut yellow given the field position.

who_me

totallegend wrote: »

He was offside. When the maul went down, he was obliged to retreat behind the ball and join from the back of the ruck but instead played the ball from what was Ulster's side.
Fairly clear cut yellow given the field position.

Well, that was my question - is a collapsed maul automatically considered a ruck. I guess the answer is 'yes', thanks.

The other point I guess, is that even standing in the middle of a ruck doesn't make you - in terms of the laws of rugby - "in the ruck". You have to be bound in, not just standing there.

jacothelad

Munster

who_me wrote: »

Well, that was my question - is a collapsed maul automatically considered a ruck. I guess the answer is 'yes', thanks.

The other point I guess, is that even standing in the middle of a ruck doesn't make you - in terms of the laws of rugby - "in the ruck". You have to be bound in, not just standing there.

If you aren't bound in you have to retreat behind the back foot - or be penalised.