Mary Roche's comments on front of Munster

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

Just on this absolutely stupid theory, the proposal in any shape or form is not to remove our City Status or change it in anyway. It wont be a "You can call yourself a City folks, but you wont have the same treatment or legality like Cork or Dublin".

This "proposal" could end up with the citizens of Waterford City ludicrously having to travel to an urban town 28 miles away to tax their cars and apply for driving licences. Get a grip will you FFS.

Bards

If Hogan & FG / LAB was serious about Local Govt reform. He could/Should have created each of the 5 Cities with an administrative boundary of at least 30 Km in all directions from the centre point of each of the Cities (Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick & Wateford)

These are the drivers and creators of wealth in each of their respective regions, and each City should be given all the tools necessary to reach their full potential for all the citizens, and not be hamstrung by vested interests such as GAA etc.

No, Instead we are going to get a watered down parish-pump version that will create one or two weaker Cities and weaker regions while the 3 that remain become stronger.

Why is it that Galway still enjoys Region 1. Status for FDI while Waterford and the S.E (Lobbed in with Cork & Dublin) does not get the same advantage. This is probably the most glaring reason why Galway gets all the new FDI Jobs at hte expense of the rest.

Wake up people, and shout stop before its too late.

comeraghs

Hopefully Phil Hogan gets lost in the mud @ the ploughing! it'd be a start anyway!

sparkling sea

Cabaal wrote: »

Indeed it is, but this is certainly nothing new.
During the boom years I used to meet my now wife in john roberts square after work and we always used to comment on how dead the place was.

The recession didn't bring on the ghost town....it was always there

I would agree that the recession didn't turn Waterford into a ghost town, I think the inactivity of the City Councillors played a major part in this long before the recession hit.

Someone pointed out that the Council had done some good things and its true they have, they allowed for tax payers money to be used for the long awaited refurbishments of historical buildings in the city.

The Tall Ships may be a great weekend; it also allows some local businesses to make money but it also inconvinces other local businesses and can cost them money they can't afford to loss.

The Waterford Crystal Visitor Centre while very welcome cannot be hailed as an achievement, in light of the huge void it was meant to fill in terms of job numbers, and it was a viable business and still operates as one.

Waterford City Council have put 14 sets of traffic lights between John Kelly motors at the entrance to the IDA and City Square care park - no quick driving into town to see a man about a dog here. And now they have gone a stuck a tiny roundabout in there, may visitors could by pass the city altogether. Are they purposely making that difficult for people who don't live in the City Centre to actually get into town? Maybe they are just completely unaware - who knows.

Waterford cannot afford a city and county council - one body that could bring properly costed projects, that would actually benefit the people of the city and the county, would be more cost effective and benefical.
One body that would fight for Waterford and do whats best for Waterford would be more effective.

Maybe if the City and County Councillors had a bit more competition at election time, they just might become a bit more inmaginative and careful deciding when and how, they do and don't ask people for money.

fuzzy dunlop

sparkling sea wrote: »

Cabaal wrote: »

Indeed it is, but this is certainly nothing new.
During the boom years I used to meet my now wife in john roberts square after work and we always used to comment on how dead the place was.

The recession didn't bring on the ghost town....it was always there

I would agree that the recession didn't turn Waterford into a ghost town, I think the inactivity of the City Councillors played a major part in this long before the recession hit.

Someone pointed out that the Council had done some good things and its true they have, they allowed for tax payers money to be used for the long awaited refurbishments of historical buildings in the city.

The Tall Ships may be a great weekend; it also allows some local businesses to make money but it also inconvinces other local businesses and can cost them money they can't afford to loss.

The Waterford Crystal Visitor Centre while very welcome cannot be hailed as an achievement, in light of the huge void it was meant to fill in terms of job numbers, and it was a viable business and still operates as one.

Waterford City Council have put 14 sets of traffic lights between John Kelly motors at the entrance to the IDA and City Square care park - no quick driving into town to see a man about a dog here. And now they have gone a stuck a tiny roundabout in there, may visitors could by pass the city altogether. Are they purposely making that difficult for people who don't live in the City Centre to actually get into town? Maybe they are just completely unaware - who knows.

Waterford cannot afford a city and county council - one body that could bring properly costed projects, that would actually benefit the people of the city and the county, would be more cost effective and benefical.
One body that would fight for Waterford and do whats best for Waterford would be more effective.

Maybe if the City and County Councillors had a bit more competition at election time, they just might become a bit more inmaginative and careful deciding when and how, they do and don't ask people for money.

You're assuming that this utopian merged entity will act efficiently.It won't. It will be one reasonably effective body diluted by an incompetent one. And when all the Golden handshakes and contractual obligations arefullfilled Croke park etc etc the whole shambles will probably cost more.Think how well has the public service reform gone so far? And if the whole thing hoes tits up who will answer for it?Phil Hogan? Will he f*ck?He will be safe on the knowledge of re-election from the fine people of Kilkenny

sparkling sea

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

You're assuming that this utopian merged entity will act efficiently.It won't. It will be one reasonably effective body diluted by an incompetent one. And when all the Golden handshakes and contractual obligations arefullfilled Croke park etc etc the whole shambles will probably cost more.Think how well has the public service reform gone so far? And if the whole thing hoes tits up who will answer for it?Phil Hogan? Will he f*ck?He will be safe on the knowledge of re-election from the fine people of Kilkenny

No looking for efficiency, I want effectiveness.

Not looking for Utopia, I would love people to do their job properly but I would settle for cost effectiveness; take a look at the place, then go to Kilkenny, Cork or Galway and there's just no comparison.

I am not happy to pay towards the cost of to two councils, when one can do equally as bad a job, but just cost less.

I think the same principle should be applied to the numbers in most councils.

No one answers to anyone anyway; its either independent inquiries that end up being legally reviewed and thrown out; or even worse tribunals that end up costing the earth but changing nothing.

Sully

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

This is laughable man:D Waterford the City without the need for a city council.Cop the f*ck on. The big black text can be forty feet high it is only in lines of text we will be a city. There will be three cities effectively in Ireland and that is what the optics as well as the reality will be. There will be town councils with more power than Waterford City. Christ FG would try and spin silk out of pig sh!t. We can't force companies to come here.but we can if you're Galway or some sink hole in Bandit country.You're a city but don't worry you don't need a city council. Jesus wept.This government is emasculating the city county AND region and we're expected to believe it is a part of some cunning methodical plan.

It is laughable alright, but not the way you think it is anyway.

Your forgetting that Limerick, one of our larger cities (bigger than Waterford and suffers from very high unemployment), will also have its City council merged with the County Council. The theory is that Hogan is trying to destroy Waterford for the betterment of Kilkenny, despite the fact Kilkenny isn't part of any changes for the better. As Limerick is also baring the effect of such a merger, that theory is rubbished.

The legislation very clearly states the cities so while you may try argue that we might "look" like we are not a City - the facts and the law behind it are clear: Its business as usual in terms of the benefits of being a City. We will not be a City like Kilkenny is defined, because the two are defined completely different. There is absolutely nothing factual that states without a City Council, you cant or wont be a city. Anything else is speculation based on a nonsensical theory.

Also, a lot (most?) of Galways jobs were expansions so the government couldn't say "Split EA Games across different counties please".

7upfree wrote: »

No. Everyone in Waterford wants the promises delivered that were made. It is very simple. And we don't want to hear lame-ass excuses regarding FF and the state of the country at every turn. It is a smokescreen for Hogan and those of a like mind. With - amazingly - some local people attempting to defend it, because they are, as you are, putting a political party before your City.

And as for FG/Lab councillors - these are the same gob****es who clapped Minister Hogan into the Tower Hotel for a conference not too long ago.

Turkeys, Christmas, etc.

In terms of Waterford, our promise was University Status. The Government have put it in the Programme for Government and have confirmed its theory as to how this will be done. Its not been two years since their election so you cant expect it to be done overnight. Come back to me when the term is over or if the government decide in the mean time to scrap the idea.

7upfree wrote: »

This "proposal" could end up with the citizens of Waterford City ludicrously having to travel to an urban town 28 miles away to tax their cars and apply for driving licences. Get a grip will you FFS.

Where are you getting that from!?

Bards wrote: »

If Hogan & FG / LAB was serious about Local Govt reform. He could/Should have created each of the 5 Cities with an administrative boundary of at least 30 Km in all directions from the centre point of each of the Cities (Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick & Wateford)

These are the drivers and creators of wealth in each of their respective regions, and each City should be given all the tools necessary to reach their full potential for all the citizens, and not be hamstrung by vested interests such as GAA etc.

No, Instead we are going to get a watered down parish-pump version that will create one or two weaker Cities and weaker regions while the 3 that remain become stronger.

Why is it that Galway still enjoys Region 1. Status for FDI while Waterford and the S.E (Lobbed in with Cork & Dublin) does not get the same advantage. This is probably the most glaring reason why Galway gets all the new FDI Jobs at hte expense of the rest.

Wake up people, and shout stop before its too late.

I'm not so sure that any of our cities should be merged. I'm not sure I am seeing the advantage, or benefits while other larger areas perhaps could be better considered for such mergers?

wellboytoo

sparkling sea wrote: »

I would agree that the recession didn't turn Waterford into a ghost town, I think the inactivity of the City Councillors played a major part in this long before the recession hit.

Someone pointed out that the Council had done some good things and its true they have, they allowed for tax payers money to be used for the long awaited refurbishments of historical buildings in the city.

The Tall Ships may be a great weekend; it also allows some local businesses to make money but it also inconvinces other local businesses and can cost them money they can't afford to loss.

The Waterford Crystal Visitor Centre while very welcome cannot be hailed as an achievement, in light of the huge void it was meant to fill in terms of job numbers, and it was a viable business and still operates as one.

Waterford City Council have put 14 sets of traffic lights between John Kelly motors at the entrance to the IDA and City Square care park - no quick driving into town to see a man about a dog here. And now they have gone a stuck a tiny roundabout in there, may visitors could by pass the city altogether. Are they purposely making that difficult for people who don't live in the City Centre to actually get into town? Maybe they are just completely unaware - who knows.

I think you are looking at these items above in the wrong way, they should not be looked at individually but as a plan and an idea that will bear fruit over the medium to long term, it's not only changing the physical environment but the mindset and outlook and self respect of a whole community. look around you over the last six years, despite the worst recession ever, the changes have been spectacular, iconic and ,the feelgood factor of the Tall ships , Spraoi, Harvest Festival , etc are palpable , these feelings are spreading around the country, and Waterford is being viewed differently and more positively than in the past.
I for one was never one to laud Waterford City Council but credit where credit is due ,they are leading the way as they should for the last five years, but it is being driven by the Executive and supported by the Councillors,draw your own conclusions there .

As regards your other points and the general conversation, I am of two if not three minds, I agree the present system is not ideal, my worry is that the proposed Authority is too small, if you are going to change do it right with real synergies and savings, a municipal authority covering Waterford south Tipp Wexford South Killkenny looking after all the areas but allowing the City, County boundaries to stay as they are.
this will make huge savings and be an appreciable body of population of (450k?) giving it large punching power nationally.
The current proposal is piddly, the whole thing is concentrating on the Councillors and the cutting of their numbers, but ignoring the elephant in the room that is the Croke Park agreement.
No employees can be laid off by any of the merged bodies, so no big savings are to be made, and it will only create a pissing competition between urban and rural and divide the community.
So why bother all the fuss for such a little saving , have the big row and the bigger savings.
Just my thoughts......

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

In terms of Waterford, our promise was University Status. The Government have put it in the Programme for Government and have confirmed its theory as to how this will be done. Its not been two years since their election so you cant expect it to be done overnight. Come back to me when the term is over or if the government decide in the mean time to scrap the idea.

Almost speaking about Waterford as if it's some distant, far-away place. As usual, you, like many before you, have become dazzled by the lure of politics, and, as you have done several times already, are putting a political party which has reneged on practically all its major promises ahead of this City and its citizens. It really is deplorable.

Sully

7upfree wrote: »

Almost speaking about Waterford as if it's some distant, far-away place. As usual, you, like many before you, have become dazzled by the lure of politics, and, as you have done several times already, are putting a political party which has reneged on practically all its major promises ahead of this City and its citizens. It really is deplorable.

'Our Promise' was in terms of the party which I support. Considering I live here, I do all my business here and promote tourism here - you will find that I have a much higher level of respect from Waterford than you are suggesting.

In addition, you clearly don't know me. I am not one of these party hacks who does and says what he is told, will abide by the party line regardless and who wont express views opposite to that of the party which he supports. I, and so do many other members, highlight areas of concern or issues we are very unhappy with. This has been done on locally, very much so and I have been openly critical on a number of governments decisions or sometimes lack of decisions.

What I wont do is go into hysteric speculation on "What If". I base things on fact and the high chance of probability of an effect. I don't fully support the merger of the councils but not because I believe it will harm Waterford in anyway (I remain unconvinced it will have a negative effect). I don't believe that such a merger, as daft is it would appear, will be Phil Hogan and the government signing away our City Status and any even slight hope of an investment on any scale thus rendering Waterford a black hole for employment.

Whats being linked with this is a typical left approach to many governmental decisions - just like all the different European treaties and the hysterics and lies that went along by some of the political parties and organisations backing it (both ways). Its a ludicrous suggestion.

deisemum

So many people outside Waterford don't give here much if any thought. George Hook called Waterford City an "almost forgotten town" and Kilkenny a "wonderful city" yesterday.

sparkling sea

wellboytoo wrote: »

I think you are looking at these items above in the wrong way, they should not be looked at individually but as a plan and an idea that will bear fruit over the medium to long term, it's not only changing the physical environment but the mindset and outlook and self respect of a whole community. look around you over the last six years, despite the worst recession ever, the changes have been spectacular, iconic and ,the feelgood factor of the Tall ships , Spraoi, Harvest Festival , etc are palpable , these feelings are spreading around the country, and Waterford is being viewed differently and more positively than in the past.
I for one was never one to laud Waterford City Council but credit where credit is due ,they are leading the way as they should for the last five years, but it is being driven by the Executive and supported by the Councillors,draw your own conclusions there .

As regards your other points and the general conversation, I am of two if not three minds, I agree the present system is not ideal, my worry is that the proposed Authority is too small, if you are going to change do it right with real synergies and savings, a municipal authority covering Waterford south Tipp Wexford South Killkenny looking after all the areas but allowing the City, County boundaries to stay as they are.
this will make huge savings and be an appreciable body of population of (450k?) giving it large punching power nationally.
The current proposal is piddly, the whole thing is concentrating on the Councillors and the cutting of their numbers, but ignoring the elephant in the room that is the Croke Park agreement.
No employees can be laid off by any of the merged bodies, so no big savings are to be made, and it will only create a pissing competition between urban and rural and divide the community.
So why bother all the fuss for such a little saving , have the big row and the bigger savings.
Just my thoughts......

While I agree with your thoughts regarding reforms, I do think your thought on Waterfords revival is more wishful thinking rather than fact

Waterford City is dying - its being choked of life; not a city centre for people to roam around but rather a dull high street and that tuns into a ghost town come 6 o clock.

I don't see the bigger plan, I think things here are getting worse and worse - Waterford reputation is one of a has been town.

comeraghs

Waterford is no worse than most urban areas at the moment. I don't know anywhere with the exception of Dublin & Galway where the streets don't empty at 6pm when shops close.

There are empty shops everywhere in Ireland, name me a town or city without them!

& If anything Waterford's reputation is on the way up! The Viking Triangle, The Harvest Festival, Having the glass back in the centre.

It's just a shame that so many locals can't see that & focus solely on the negatives.

I'm not saying that things are perfect, of course they are not but what's the point of focusing on the negatives unless you are going to do something about them!

BE POSITIVE ABOUT WATERFORD! SHOUT ABOUT HOW GREAT THIS CITY IS! & DO YOUR BIT TO LEAD THE FIGHTBACK!

MOC88

Sully wrote: »

Some would argue that a merger of councils will benefit the county, which is generally ignored. Stan Nangle, who ran for the local council for the Green Party, raised a valid argument:



You cant brandish this government with the same stick that was/is being used for Fianna Fail. Nor can you claim its just this governments fault, when the opposition don't care either. That is why I am bringing other parties in.

What has the government done for Waterford in terms of jobs since the election? Probably not a lot, but I think they are trying to attract jobs to Ireland full stop without getting into specific locations as much. They have setup a programme for the South East and additional measures which were announced on the forum. But they are not in power that long. Rome wasn't built in a day, for a start!

Why thee f### would I care about Stan Nagle or the green party - whom I still can't work out why anyone ever gave/gives them a vote. Excuse my reaction but seriously...

What stick am I using against Fine Gael as other governemnts - that they're both incompetent and buy votes- I make those opinions on my own - don't assume my views aren't well formed. The opposition don't matter to me what this Government is doing does a lot becaus eit affects me and everyone I know.

Rome wasn't built in a day - That phrase is trotted out when things aren't finished and it always seems to be an excuse. What policies have been impemented since election to help get Waterfford jobs- now they're disbanding a council rather than reducing the exorbatant wages- it is a pretty bad idea on several levels. reducing wages is a much better alternative. and its not being chosen because of political reasons.

Well they're pretty bad a t facilitating/helping to attract jobs- their answer to creating jobs is to build something in minister A's backyard. Loads of inverstment has been poured in to areas that minister's are from.

Setup a program that has done what?(can I get a link as I can't remember the specifics- all that I can remember is some funding for reskilling) Where was it before the jobs in talk talk and rigney were lost - Waterford didn't become a blackspot overnight.

The worst thing is I could nearly forgive all of the above if they really were serious about rectifying it but they're not, they don't care and I don't think they ever will. And it is about forgiving because they have done so much wrong morally and logically that they no longer have any mandate.

fuzzy dunlop

sparkling sea wrote: »

No looking for efficiency, I want effectiveness.

Not looking for Utopia, I would love people to do their job properly but I would settle for cost effectiveness; take a look at the place, then go to Kilkenny, Cork or Galway and there's just no comparison.

I am not happy to pay towards the cost of to two councils, when one can do equally as bad a job, but just cost less.

I think the same principle should be applied to the numbers in most councils.

No one answers to anyone anyway; its either independent inquiries that end up being legally reviewed and thrown out; or even worse tribunals that end up costing the earth but changing nothing.

And how is this going to be achieved with a plan that looks like it was drawn up by a GAA county board? No consideration at all for demographics,Land use or planning.And your comments about Waterford are glib to say the least.Visit Cork and view their city centre these days.It compares relatively poorly with Waterford.If the English Market was gone there would be nothing there worth talking about. Lonely Planet must have been high by rating it as one of the 10 best places to visit in the World was it? Or Europe? It sounded suspect when I heard it but after my last visit there I could only conclude that Lonely Planet has left itself open to possible accusations of being influenced by lobbying ,

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

'Our Promise' was in terms of the party which I support. Considering I live here, I do all my business here and promote tourism here - you will find that I have a much higher level of respect from Waterford than you are suggesting.

From or for? Your loyalty is to your City and its citizens. Not a bunch of gombeen politicians. We all do business and support the City. And promote not only it, but also what it should have - which is being withheld by the "party you support".

sparkling sea

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

And how is this going to be achieved with a plan that looks like it was drawn up by a GAA county board? No consideration at all for demographics,Land use or planning.And your comments about Waterford are glib to say the least.Visit Cork and view their city centre these days.It compares relatively poorly with Waterford.If the English Market was gone there would be nothing there worth talking about. Lonely Planet must have been high by rating it as one of the 10 best places to visit in the World was it? Or Europe? It sounded suspect when I heard it but after my last visit there I could only conclude that Lonely Planet has left itself open to possible accusations of being influenced by lobbying ,

Can't agree with you with regards to Cork because I think your wrong, I've been working down there several times in the past few months and Waterford doesn't compare, Cork although not as lively as it once was is booming compared to Waterford.

Waterford's long slow and ongoing downfall really depresses me, my comments are far from glib; they reflect what I have seen and experienced.

I don't think much will be achieved if nothing changes, the planners have much to answer for but our council aren't any better. Status quo is not the answer; things need to change and the sooner the better.

Jason Todd

Mary Roche tweeted this morning:

Mary Roche ‏@maryroche
Why are we surprised when #Reilly pulls a stroke? Sure #Howlin pulled another one when he located the VEC HQ to Wexford.

She has a point, but I can also see the argument from people around the country who are firing back at her. They say Waterford was on the end of a few strokes particularly when FF were in power. We're just on the unfortunate end of it now it seems.

Sully

Didn't Cullen pull a few strokes in his time for Waterford?

mecco

Few people coming up with that retort, including a presenter on lyric fm (I think from his twitter name)..would love to see an example or two?

fricatus

Sully wrote: »

Didn't Cullen pull a few strokes in his time for Waterford?

He may have, but to ask that question is just "whataboutery" TBH. Any strokes that FF pulled do not excuse FG and Labour pulling their own strokes. Most of us want to leave that sh1t behind.

Personally I don't want Waterford getting anything from the public purse just on account of a stroke being pulled by some politician who happens to be in power. I want us to get it because we pay our taxes and our population merits it.

It's a really crappy way to run a country if the places that benefit from public largesse are those whose local "chieftain" gets into the Cabinet. Really crappy!

Sully

fricatus wrote: »

He may have, but to ask that question is just "whataboutery" TBH. Any strokes that FF pulled do not excuse FG and Labour pulling their own strokes. Most of us want to leave that sh1t behind.

Personally I don't want Waterford getting anything from the public purse just on account of a stroke being pulled by some politician who happens to be in power. I want us to get it because we pay our taxes and our population merits it.

It's a really crappy way to run a country if the places that benefit from public largesse are those whose local "chieftain" gets into the Cabinet. Really crappy!

I agree its not right. It happens and I doubt we will ever get rid of the system, which is a shame. I think it says a lot about the electorate though - these Ministers will be expected to deliver locally and may not get re-elected without doing so.

We wont complain if it benefits us but we will if we are not in on the action.

fricatus

Sully wrote: »

I agree its not right. It happens and I doubt we will ever get rid of the system, which is a shame. I think it says a lot about the electorate though - these Ministers will be expected to deliver locally and may not get re-elected without doing so.

We wont complain if it benefits us but we will if we are not in on the action.

Apologies for going a bit O/T now, but really what's needed is a national list system or single national constituency, so that politicians are not beholden to any particular local area. If they represent the country as a whole, then they should be elected by the country as a whole.

mecco

fricatus wrote: »

Apologies for going a bit O/T now, but really what's needed is a national list system or single national constituency, so that politicians are not beholden to any particular local area. If they represent the country as a whole, then they should be elected by the country as a whole.

I was going to post a very similar comment. I think it'd never happen for two reasons though:

1) It's far too logical a suggestion for Irish politics
2) It'd require the turkeys to vote for christmas.

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

Didn't Cullen pull a few strokes in his time for Waterford?

And these were?

MOC88

Strokes from CUllen- sure he might have got us some funding but teven that was well below what we should have invested in City and County- everyone campaigned in Waterford for over 20years for a badly needed second bridge- built finally as aprt of a ntional bypass strategy and tolled to boot- how many years were we campaigning for radiotherapy? what did we get? Cullen only got us half of what we should have got and what did he rob form other areas???... yes I mean rob
Cullen got the rap for an awful lot of things especially the e-voting machine fiasco - which he didn't put the contract together for. He is just another excuse for people to not give Waterford its due but instead do the reverse - take what we have- don't like Fianna Fail at all but he was okay - took the rap for his incompetent coworker idiots a lot of the time and got Waterford on the agenda when we deserved to be.
nonetheless the trend will continue - take from Waterford and give to your own backyard

sparkling sea

The PR single transferable voting system may serve counties well, however it doesn't appear to the serve the country very well at all.

thomasm

Front of the Munster saying the decison is done and the councils will be merged and headquaters will not be in the city. Also abolishing Tramore, Dungarvan and Lismore councils

[Removed Image]

Max Powers

thomasm wrote: »

Front of the Munster saying the decison is done and the councils will be merged and headquaters will not be in the city. Also abolishing Tramore, Dungarvan and Lismore councils

[Removed Image]

all town councils should be abandoned. the thing about HQ in dungarvan must be bull by the munster express as it makes no sense whatso ever.

Bards

thomasm wrote: »

Front of the Munster saying the decison is done and the councils will be merged and headquaters will not be in the city. Also abolishing Tramore, Dungarvan and Lismore councils

[Removed Image]

time to take to the streets me-thinks

Enough is Enough

Hogan out of office now!!

FG - We will remember this for decades to come, Another example in a long line of similar acts of a single political party trying to destroy Ireland oldest City