Mary Roche's comments on front of Munster

fuzzy dunlop

sparkling sea wrote: »

Can't agree with you with regards to Cork because I think your wrong, I've been working down there several times in the past few months and Waterford doesn't compare, Cork although not as lively as it once was is booming compared to Waterford.

Waterford's long slow and ongoing downfall really depresses me, my comments are far from glib; they reflect what I have seen and experienced.

I don't think much will be achieved if nothing changes, the planners have much to answer for but our council aren't any better. Status quo is not the answer; things need to change and the sooner the better.

Well this type of Hyperbole belongs in the National Enquirer.It is evident for all to see that on a drive into Cork City from Waterford the amount of urban decay that has ocurred in the last few years. The area from Glanmire/McCurtain St to Patrick St is textbook consequences of bad planning and economic/social decline.This is 25% of the city centre. The English Market and Brown Thomas are the Jewels in their retail crown.After that you might say HMV and Waterfstones which could go any day. Not a lot for the second city of the state. The worst that could be said for Waterford is that it has stayed flat for the last fifteen tears since City Square opened.But it hasn't.Most of the City centre has been pedestrrianised. The retail offering could be a lot better but it has improved. What the City council has done with with the Viking Triangle and Waterford Crystal is to be commended in particular Michael Walsh. Credit where credit is due.

fuzzy dunlop

thomasm wrote: »

Front of the Munster saying the decison is done and the councils will be merged and headquaters will not be in the city. Also abolishing Tramore, Dungarvan and Lismore councils

[Removed Image]

If this is true then this has to go down as one of the most backward governments in the history of the state.If FG and Labour get a single seat between them out of the City in another election then we deserve all the punishment we get.

gw80

can this be stopped, if the tax payers of waterford dont want it, considering they work for us dont they?

Sully

gw80 wrote: »

can this be stopped, if the tax payers of waterford dont want it, considering they work for us dont they?

No, they work for the whole country. There isn't much objections in Waterford to this either.

mecco

Sully wrote: »

No, they work for the whole country. There isn't much objections in Waterford to this either.

I'd say there is huge objection to it tbh, and now that it's on the Munster Express, people will be more aware and that objection should hopefully get vocal.

It's obvious that this is yet another anti-Waterford swipe, and it'll prob have the same explanation as the previous (VEC) one: an embarrassing waffle to avoid admitting it makes zero sense.

Psychedelic

Sully wrote: »

No, they work for the whole country. There isn't much objections in Waterford to this either.

Do you mean there were few formal objections/submissions from Waterford people against the merger, or the general public doesn't object to it? I don't think there were that many submissions (something like 20 I heard) but I think all of the submissions were against the mergers.

There was also a committee (3 or 4 Waterford people) which was set up to examine the submissions and the case for a merger, and they had to do a report for Hogan. I'd find it hard to believe that their report would be for the merger, and Hogan had already decided it was going ahead no matter what their report recommended.

Do you know if the committee's report is going to be published? Is that what the Munster Express is reporting about today? I'll keep an open mind on it until I read that, but the thoughts of the Council HQ not being in the city just sounds crazy altogether.

BBM77

We get less funding for health care.
We are not given the same access to third level education as regions with smaller populations than ours.
Generally in terms of government funding we are treated as second class citizens.
And now we will not even have our own local authority if this comes to pass.

When are Waterford people going to say enough is enough.

fitzeyboy.

Psychedelic wrote: »

Do you know if the committee's report is going to be published? Is that what the Munster Express is reporting about today? I'll keep an open mind on it until I read that, but the thoughts of the Council HQ not being in the city just sounds crazy altogether.

The bit in bold has Deasy and Conway written all over it.

Max Powers

fitzeyboy. wrote: »

The bit in bold has Deasy and Conway written all over it.

Lads, i reckon that thing about county council HQ is bull, im guessing the munster got a quote of Phil hogan who decided to have a laugh at our expense, get a reaction, turn city against county etc. Not even the pathetic reps that we have would say something like that in seriousness.

fuzzy dunlop

http://www.munster-express.ie/front-page-news/general-stories/no-more-%E2%80%98urbs-intacta-manet%E2%80%99/

sparkling sea

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Most of the City centre has been pedestrrianised.

This has been central in decline of the city, and the never ending traffic lights on the Cork Road, and the ridiculous cost of parking and the rates, etc, etc. Credit for turning Waterford into a ghosttown - I don't think so. We'll have to agree to differ on this one.

fricatus

Psychedelic wrote: »

Do you mean there were few formal objections/submissions from Waterford people against the merger, or the general public doesn't object to it? I don't think there were that many submissions (something like 20 I heard) but I think all of the submissions were against the mergers.

Well I made one of those submissions and it was very much against the merger, so there's one out of your 20. I'd like to see the other 19. Was it just a figleaf? Can these be seen under FOI? If they're all against it, should Hogan be going ahead with this?

If it is to go ahead, shouldn't the council be deciding where its own HQ should be? What kind of an insult is this to the people of Waterford? About 70% of the county's population lives east of Portlaw - having the HQ anywhere other than the (country's oldest and the region's largest) city is completely taking the p155. Will the majority of councillors have to trek down to Dungarvan now? How is this city to be effectively run if it's being managed from 30 miles away?

Hogan is making such a botch job of all of this. There's no reform of the system at all. He's just dictating that two of our major cities can't have their own council any more (this goes directly against the National Spatial Strategy) and that Tipp councils should be merged. Given that North Tipp is part of the Midwest Regional "Authority" and South Tipp is part of the southeastern one, where will the merged Tipp council then belong? Has this even been thought through?

No it hasn't because Hogan is a clown and has no proper plan. Instead he seems to be making all this up as he goes along. He made a hames of the Household Charge because there was little thought put into it, and his "reform" of local government is patchy and piecemeal. He is more concerned with getting roads done in Kilkenny (anyone see the nice resurfaced Ring Road there lately?) and keeping Travellers out of places where he might get votes than he is about making a proper fist of his portfolio.

Unfortunately he seems intent on doing this and nobody seems to be able to stop him. This is going to do massive damage to Waterford and Limerick cities, going as it does against all the international trends towards cities having more autonomy in how they're run. It's a fundamentally anti-urban move, but nothing more than I'd expect from a yokel like Hogan, who's now got his chance to indulge his provincial jealousy against Waterford like some little Hitler.

I hope ta fcuk the government falls soon or else Enda gets him away to Europe before he can do us any more damage. :mad:

fuzzy dunlop

sparkling sea wrote: »

This has been central in decline of the city, and the never ending traffic lights on the Cork Road, and the ridiculous cost of parking and the rates, etc, etc. Credit for turning Waterford into a ghosttown - I don't think so. We'll have to agree to differ on this one.

Again with the Hyperbole. Lot of businesses plying their trade here for a ghost town.Taxi Driver are you? Or are you just trying to derail the thread to keep the heat of Big Phil and the boys.

fuzzy dunlop

fricatus wrote: »

Well I made one of those submissions and it was very much against the merger, so there's one out of your 20. I'd like to see the other 19. Was it just a figleaf? Can these be seen under FOI? If they're all against it, should Hogan be going ahead with this?

If it is to go ahead, shouldn't the council be deciding where its own HQ should be? What kind of an insult is this to the people of Waterford? About 70% of the county's population lives east of Portlaw - having the HQ anywhere other than the (country's oldest and the region's largest) city is completely taking the p155. Will the majority of councillors have to trek down to Dungarvan now? How is this city to be effectively run if it's being managed from 30 miles away?

Hogan is making such a botch job of all of this. There's no reform of the system at all. He's just dictating that two of our major cities can't have their own council any more (this goes directly against the National Spatial Strategy) and that Tipp councils should be merged. Given that North Tipp is part of the Midwest Regional "Authority" and South Tipp is part of the southeastern one, where will the merged Tipp council then belong? Has this even been thought through?

No it hasn't because Hogan is a clown and has no proper plan. Instead he seems to be making all this up as he goes along. He made a hames of the Household Charge because there was little thought put into it, and his "reform" of local government is patchy and piecemeal. He is more concerned with getting roads done in Kilkenny (anyone see the nice resurfaced Ring Road there lately?) and keeping Travellers out of places where he might get votes than he is about making a proper fist of his portfolio.

Unfortunately he seems intent on doing this and nobody seems to be able to stop him. This is going to do massive damage to Waterford and Limerick cities, going as it does against all the international trends towards cities having more autonomy in how they're run. It's a fundamentally anti-urban move, but nothing more than I'd expect from a yokel like Hogan, who's now got his chance to indulge his provincial jealousy against Waterford like some little Hitler.

I hope ta fcuk the government falls soon or else Enda gets him away to Europe before he can do us any more damage. :mad:

Almost 90000 people in Waterford City/ SKK will have to travel 30 miles to avail of services while sparsely populated rural areas will have them virtually on their doorstep.Spatial planning courtesy of the Farmers party.I wonder has Paudie anytjing worthwhile to say for himself on the Tweet machine.Last time I checked he was more concerned with the hurling and ryder cup.

jad2007

There was 32 submissions. Thirty against and 2 in favour.

fitzeyboy.

This, If true is starting to look like a bone thrown to Mr. Deasy. Support the merger and we'll stick the HQ in Dungarvan. Helps his re-election cause does it not. :mad:

Bards

fitzeyboy. wrote: »

This, If true is starting to look like a bone thrown to Mr. Deasy. Support the merger and we'll stick the HQ in Dungarvan. Helps his re-election cause does it not. :mad:

I said this might happen when the VEC merger was first announced (more than a year ago) that it was to go to Wexford, it was strange that Deasey was so quiet at the time.

see post #100 in the following thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056339155&page=7

jad2007

Just listened to Sully on WLR on Billys show, Started off talking about Tramore then local government, worth a listen on the podcast when its available.

AdMMM

For years I've been saying that Kilkenny isn't a City because it doesn't have a City Council. Now we'll be in the same boat as them. Ouch.

Sully

AdMMM wrote: »

For years I've been saying that Kilkenny isn't a City because it doesn't have a City Council. Now we'll be in the same boat as them. Ouch.

That's not the reason why Kilkenny isn't a city - its allowed be called a City but it does not have the same rights as a normal City would have.

Anyway, delighted to hear Leo Varadkar on WLRFM this morning confirming that our City Status wont be lost in the merger, that he would be 'very surprised' if the city lost its mayor and that there will be 'no announcement' this week - as originally stated by the Munster Express - on the merger as it hasn't even came to cabinet.

Varadkar has heard very little about the proposals also and one of our local TDs, John Halligan, who was on WLR also was unaware of what was coming and that Hogan isn't even around. He stated that there isn't much knowledge about it around Leinster House either. He appears to be in favour of the merger, but isn't in favour of everything going to Dungarvan as is being suggested nor is he in favour of the rumoured loss of our city status.

So, despite the strong sources the Munster Express appears to have, we are back to square one. Appears to be just increasing the speculation a bit more and getting people talking.

Sully

Bards wrote: »

I said this might happen when the VEC merger was first announced (more than a year ago) that it was to go to Wexford, it was strange that Deasey was so quiet at the time.

see post #100 in the following thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056339155&page=7

I could be wrong but I thought Deasy did speak out about this?

AdMMM

Sully wrote: »

That's not the reason why Kilkenny isn't a city - its allowed be called a City but it does not have the same rights as a normal City would have.

Anyway, delighted to hear Leo Varadkar on WLRFM this morning confirming that our City Status wont be lost in the merger, that he would be 'very surprised' if the city lost its mayor and that there will be 'no announcement' this week - as originally stated by the Munster Express - on the merger as it hasn't even came to cabinet.

Varadkar has heard very little about the proposals also and one of our local TDs, John Halligan, who was on WLR also was unaware of what was coming and that Hogan isn't even around. He stated that there isn't much knowledge about it around Leinster House either. He appears to be in favour of the merger, but isn't in favour of everything going to Dungarvan as is being suggested nor is he in favour of the rumoured loss of our city status.

So, despite the strong sources the Munster Express appears to have, we are back to square one. Appears to be just increasing the speculation a bit more and getting people talking.

So it's the Transport Minister with the scoop of what's going on in other Departments again?

mccarthy37

Could anyone explain to me what does Gateway City mean.
Since we were designated a Gateway City it has been all downhill in everything this city once had.
Here better still try and tell this present Government about our status, with Big Phil in Kilkenny and Little Howlin in Wexford its clear we do not have much poltical clout with this present regime.
Who is John Deasy is he still a TD I haven't heard a peak from him since he was elected. Now lets see how many more powerful politicians we have in our fair county. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

Sully

AdMMM wrote: »

So it's the Transport Minister with the scoop of what's going on in other Departments again?

Leader in waiting I tell ya

fricatus

Sully wrote: »

Leader in waiting I tell ya

I hope so. In fairness to Varadkar, he really seems to have quite a bit of common sense compared to the Rural Politburo of Hogan, Kenny, etc.

wellboytoo

jad2007 wrote: »

There was 32 submissions. Thirty against and 2 in favour.

The Cops were for it, go figure

fricatus

jad2007 wrote: »

There was 32 submissions. Thirty against and 2 in favour.

Are these publicly available to view? Anyone got a link?

jad2007 wrote: »

Just listened to Sully on WLR on Billys show, Started off talking about Tramore then local government, worth a listen on the podcast when its available.

Once again, any link? Or should I just be able to find it on the WLR website?

mccarthy37 wrote: »

Could anyone explain to me what does Gateway City mean.

It's a term from the National Spatial Strategy. More details at http://www.irishspatialstrategy.ie/

MOC88

Sully wrote: »

That's not the reason why Kilkenny isn't a city - its allowed be called a City but it does not have the same rights as a normal City would have.

Anyway, delighted to hear Leo Varadkar on WLRFM this morning confirming that our City Status wont be lost in the merger, that he would be 'very surprised' if the city lost its mayor and that there will be 'no announcement' this week - as originally stated by the Munster Express - on the merger as it hasn't even came to cabinet.

Varadkar has heard very little about the proposals also and one of our local TDs, John Halligan, who was on WLR also was unaware of what was coming and that Hogan isn't even around. He stated that there isn't much knowledge about it around Leinster House either. He appears to be in favour of the merger, but isn't in favour of everything going to Dungarvan as is being suggested nor is he in favour of the rumoured loss of our city status.

So, despite the strong sources the Munster Express appears to have, we are back to square one. Appears to be just increasing the speculation a bit more and getting people talking.

So you're delighted about what you've said is a dead certainty several times.
Yeah we pretty much know that we're losing a lot just not how much...

Are you happy with whatw e know is going ahead or would you have done it a different way?

UhOh

7upfree wrote: »

Mr. Hogan is also, incredibly, talking about removing Waterford's City status - which is far more serious than ANY council shakeup.

This cretin has a pathological hatred for all things Waterford. He's a real catch you next tuesday

fuzzy dunlop

I listened to the podcasts from Thursday and Friday morning and here is my two cents worth. I suspect that this is an intentional leak that will make the merger palatable if the council is located in Waterford City by making us think we dodged a bullet.That is the best case scenario here. The worst case is that it is true and I could not say with any confidence that this is not the case.

On Varadker; All he done was expressed his own opinion. He didn’t say that it was or wasn’t going to happen. When pressed on whether or not Waterford would lose its mayoralty office he could not say.Again he expressed only what he thought. So basically he said nothing to shed any light on the issue.

There was a Labour councillor from Lismore IIRC on Thursdays program who seemed to justify Dungarvan being chosen as the location because there was more people in the county than city and that Dungarvan was more geographically central in the county. Frustratingly this seemed to go over Billy McCarthys head.The fact is in the merged entity 90% of the population of Waterford City and County would live closer to the City than Dungarvan.

John Halligan depite getting muddled and saying Dungarvan a couple of times when he clearly meant Waterford. E,g. the river flows through Dungarvan and the airport is closer to Dungarvan gave a good explanation as to why locating the council in the city is common sense.

Billy McCarthy seemed to be only aware of some of the basic historical context i.e Waterford City having local administration since 914 AD. What IMO should have been discussed as well was the fact that the only reason there is a separate council for the City and County in the first place was to placate vested interests specifically landed gentry in the first half of the 19th century in the county. Waterford is unique in that all the other cities in Ireland are also the capitals of their respective counties. So what is at risk here is that Waterford will undergo the apparent downgrading of local government like Limerick. It will also experience the further denigration of having a 1000 years of historic local administration being shifted to Dungarvan which has been the county seat for just over a century.