Standing Charge Low Usage

Mollywolly

Electric Ireland: Una wrote: »

Hi Mollywolly,

If you are the named account-holder I can check this for you no problem - I just need the following details: the Electric Ireland account number, your name/address in full as they appear on the account, and either the contact telephone number on your account or your date of birth.

Regards,
Una

Thanks. PM sent.

SIG

Funny how its melodrama to say the charge is illegal. Well many many items that are supposed to be LEGAl when challanged are found not to be so. thats why we have courts !!. I know of persons who have paid the bill less the 'low usage' and nothing has been forthcoming about it.
Its a try on believe me.

Madam_X

Well I obviously can't say you're wrong for certain, but it strikes me as rather stupid of any company to do something illegal just for the hell of it and happily publicise it...

Saying "It's illegal" without any actual solid substance does sound kinda edgy though...

deepriver

Hi Una,

I just received another bill from Electric Ireland and again the low usage standing charge has been applied. I was hoping my usage would increase seasonally and push me over the 2 unit daily threshold but its not the case.

As mentioned before the 2 unit per day threshold was set as EI were "confident" occupied houses would exceed this level.

My house is not vacant and I do not exceed 2 units per day of usage, so clearly EI's billing pricing department have made an error in calculation.

Some interesting points have been made by other posters on the legality of this, i.e. charging someone for not using your product, charging vat on non usage and I will be looking into this from a legal perspective and may well raise this with the regulator / ombudsman.

I suggest one of two alternatives however.

1. Place me on the normal standing charges as my house is NOT vacant

2. Void the contract and allow me to move to another supplier that does not have punitive rates for low usage.

Can you please look into doing one of these two?

deepriver

Madam_X wrote: »

Well I obviously can't say you're wrong for certain, but it strikes me as rather stupid of any company to do something illegal just for the hell of it and happily publicise it...

Saying "It's illegal" without any actual solid substance does sound kinda edgy though...

This springs to mind Madame_X, any organisation or body is capable or breaching the law and being held accountable, even governments and semi states!

http://www.ombudsman.gov.ie/en/News/Media-Releases/2012-Media-Releases/Mobility-Allowance-Scheme-Ombudsman-publishes-special-report-to-the-Houses-of-the-Oireachtas.html

EI: Una

Hello Deepriver,

Is your latest bill based on a meter reading or is it an estimate?

Regards,
Una

deepriver

its a meter reading
thanks

EI: Una

Hi Deepriver,

Unfortunately we cannot remove the low usage standing charge if it is below two units per day, whether the premises is vacant (which is the case with the vast majority of premises to which the charge is applied) or not.

With regards to any specifics on your account, I would need to correspond with you by private message.

Regards,
Una

Heroditas

deepriver wrote: »

Some interesting points have been made by other posters on the legality of this, i.e. charging someone for not using your product, charging vat on non usage and I will be looking into this from a legal perspective and may well raise this with the regulator / ombudsman.

It's a standing charge.
You're using the product simply by being connected to the grid.

SIG

A standing charge is an acceptable ( Rent of apparatus et al) which is fine. However a low usage is a penalty for not using a service or goods. It is not legal to charge for a non service. It is illegal to charge vat on non delivrey of goods/service. There are many cases decided which have fraud as their basis. This is fraud.

grange mac

Do other providers have this low usage charge. Just got a bill €45 with €40 being low usage....wtf!!! THIS IS A RIP OFF AND I WILL DO MY BEST TO AVOID IT....what if I put in a prepay meter?? Can it be avoided that way??

Inkie

grange mac wrote: »

Do other providers have this low usage charge. Just got a bill €45 with €40 being low usage....wtf!!! THIS IS A RIP OFF AND I WILL DO MY BEST TO AVOID IT....what if I put in a prepay meter?? Can it be avoided that way??

There is no way possible that €40 of your €45 bill was just for Low User Standing Charge! Because 13.5% of the bill alone is for VAT, there is also PSO Levy that is charged around €1.80 per month and even if there is no low user charge on your bill you still get charged normal daily Standing Charge. I'm on a daily standing charge of 0.3036 cent. So an average bill (60 days) if you add up these three - normal standing charge, PSO Levy and VAT (and I'm not adding in electricity usage here) the bill would be around €25 so where are you getting €40 from for just one charge i.e. the lower user charge?????

Electric Ireland: David

Hi grange mac,

The low user standing charge does not apply to customers who receive a Free Electricity Allowance, or those on the Household Budget Plan or with Pay As You Go meters. However, PAYG meters are reserved for customers in arrears, and eligibility for these meters is assessed in line with the directives of the CER.

Was your latest bill estimated? If you receive an estimated bill with a low user standing charge and you feel it may be incorrect, you can adjust your meter reading online at anytime, or PM us with your account details and we will adjust your bill for you. We can remove the charge if your usage is above the average two units per day threshold for the billing period in question.

If you have any other questions please don't hesitate to ask.

Thanks,

David

grange mac

Inkie wrote: »

There is no way possible that €40 of your €45 bill was just for Low User Standing Charge! Because 13.5% of the bill alone is for VAT, there is also PSO Levy that is charged around €1.80 per month and even if there is no low user charge on your bill you still get charged normal daily Standing Charge. I'm on a daily standing charge of 0.3036 cent. So an average bill (60 days) if you add up these three - normal standing charge, PSO Levy and VAT (and I'm not adding in electricity usage here) the bill would be around €25 so where are you getting €40 from for just one charge i.e. the lower user charge?????

Bill = esb charge 68c, standing chg low usage 67 days @ .5418!!! = 36.30 , pso 4.64e , vat on total 5.62....

My low usage unit cost seems excessive!!!

Electric Ireland: David

Hi grange mac, just got your PM there, thanks. On the face of it, it appears that the low user standing charge you quote is for a rural domestic customer. Rural standing charges are higher than the corresponding urban charges, due to the greater costs associated with operation/maintenance of the transmission network.

SIG

Don't pay these bills. Ask for copy of a contract that you signed where you agreed to be ripped off. If you are an old customer you will find it does not exist. Ask them to take you to court and watch what happens - NOTHING. Its illegal.

.BrianJM

SIG wrote: »

A standing charge is an acceptable ( Rent of apparatus et al) which is fine. However a low usage is a penalty for not using a service or goods. It is not legal to charge for a non service. It is illegal to charge vat on non delivrey of goods/service. There are many cases decided which have fraud as their basis. This is fraud.

I would argue that the service and/or goods have been delivered and so VAT is justified.  If the goods/services are not used then that is the user's responsibility.

2 units per day is very little.  Is O.P. using gas for all cooking (including making tea/coffee), hot water, heating and refrigerator/freezer… …and no tv along with a few other 'essentials'?   
It could be that he/she is away from home for long periods at a time in which case ESB would probably be more understanding in this matter. 

SIG

Update to all this nearly a year later. I waited until EI sent the Solicitor after me. I write a nice letter to the Solicitor asking for a copy of my contract showing where I had agreed to such a charge. After several communications the Case dropped. QED. Fight them.

SIG

update Jan 7 2014. Contacted Bord Gais re Low Usage Charge - they do not have such a charge. As I work with multiple!e clients I now advise all to change from EI.

Bubbling

5 and a half years later and these Low Use Standing Charges are still being applied at 60.8c per day, €18.91 per month, €222.65 per year, where there is no electricity usage with Electric Ireland (on a vacant house).

Any advice on what supplier(s) have better standing charge rates?