US ambassador killed in Libya

Gee Bag

mise_me_fein3 wrote: »

Really? It was because of the religion?

Really? They were angry because of insults to the religion? Surely it was the issue of Irish and British...I mean that would mean we had no issue with Britain before Protestants existed but then...hmmm.

Religion splits the communities, it is not the reason in the north....there is no religion in the basque country but they have a similar issue.

all religion insults genuine intelligence....to say science is not correct versus religion insults me, but I won't kill a Saudi official.

So you think the entire history of conflict in Ireland has no sectarian element to it whatsoever?

Killer Wench

The people of the United States absolutely do not want to engage in another war. We cannot afford the human lives and we cannot afford to fund another five to ten years of ongoing conflict with cultures across the world. In terms of Obama's re-election, this was absolutely the worse turn of events for his campaign.

It was bad enough that Israel is threatening to strike against Iran very soon, and they are placing pressure on the US government to support their action, but now we have groups storming our embassies in Egypt and Libya.

These threads are always fascinating to me. The US is damned if we do act and damned if we don't.

Oh, the people of Syria are being killed by the government - why hasn't the US done something!

Oh, look at the US intervening in Iran - why don't they leave the world alone!

Let's put it out on the table. The US is like the western world's booty call. We aren't good enough for y'all to want to take home to meet ma, but you'll give us a call when you need us.

Victor

mise_me_fein3 wrote: »

I'm tired of having to tippy toe around Islam. We should call it what is it. A dumb religion that is very dangerous to our freedom.

I'm not into religion at all but at least we are tolerant. Its more of these dumb Arabs.

How do you reconcile the underlined piece with the rest of the quote?

SamHarris wrote: »

Im not disagreeing with you but there is a big difference between a Christian that kills and someone who kills in the name of Christianity.

Like that Norwegian guy Brevik?

SamHarris

Gee Bag wrote: »

So you think the entire history of conflict in Ireland has no sectarian element to it whatsoever?

Also, its different for religion to be a seperation line in a conflict and for it to be the declared reason one or both sides are killing.

Itwasntme.

mise_me_fein3 wrote: »

When is the last time Catholics protested and killed like this? I mean it must have been centuries ago...

No religion is tolerant...it's all violent but I have not seen any religion inspire it's followers to kill like Islam.

Maybe Christians did a long time ago but then again we have moved on in "Christian" countries and most of us dont really follow all this stuff, even people that say they are Catholic dont really follow it ...Arabs on the other hand are backward.

*Sigh* Stupid generalizations are stupid. Arabs are backward? Oh yeah, because the Catholic priests in Ireland who sodomized young boys for decades or the catholics who knew what was going on and ignored it are so much more evolved?

By the way, Hindu-Christian riots in India and Christian-Muslim riots in Nigeria did not happen centuries ago.

partyatmygaff

starbelgrade wrote: »

Are you seriously trying to suggest that the Catholic Church is tolerant?

We're talking about a religious organisation that believes that homosexuality is wrong, that abortion is immoral, that contraception is immoral and which doesn't allow women to join the ranks of the hierarchy.

Tolerant? My arse.

No one forces anyone to be Catholic and there is no punishment or risk involved with not being Catholic.

Here's an example. If another Irish person insulted every single member of the Catholic church and every figure they have, would a mob of very angry lunatics who didn't even hear the insult terrorise you and your family and try and kill you?

SamHarris

Killer Wench wrote: »

These threads are always fascinating to me. The US is damned if we do act and damned if we don't.

Oh, the people of Syria are being killed by the government - why has the US done something!

Oh, look at the US intervening in Iran - why don't they leave the world alone!

Let's put it out on the table. The US is like the western world's booty call. We aren't good enough for y'all to want to take home to meet ma, but you'll give us a call when you need us.

Its because every action has negative consequences - if you always take the position not taken by the powerful you can always point to things and claim you were right. Its cheap and incredibly prevailent in Ireland, partly because we are weak in an international sense (an inferiority complex plays into this) and partly because we have an enormous amount of people that think they are far more clever than they actually are. Scratch that - its prevailent nearly everywhere.

mise_me_fein3

Gee Bag wrote: »

Well done on avoiding the very basic point about 'christians' killing each other in Ireland because of religion.

Some Muslims are dicks, some Jews are dicks, some Christians are dicks.

Labelling 22-25% of the planets population as being of one mind is idiotic.

So why were Irish and English at each other when they were both Catholics before the Reformation? The religion issue in Ireland identifies those who were native to the land and those who came after a plantation. That is the issue, not the religion.

Anyone that believes we came from Adam and Eve would have to be called an idiot.....the difference is, Christians seem to have leeway on this...Muslims, and especially those in the middle east....yes I have spoken to Saudis and Egyptians about it who don't like Islam.....the middle east muslims seem to be the worst for insulting our freedoms.....

The issue I have is that I applaud everyone for their tolerance, I know there are extremists in all relgions...I just wish there were the same percentage of extremists Muslims are there are Christians....if this was the case, the incident in Libya would not have happened

Gee Bag

SamHarris wrote: »

Im not disagreeing with you but there is a big difference between a Christian that kills and someone who kills in the name of Christianity.

SamHarris wrote: »

Also, its different for religion to be a seperation line in a conflict and for it to be the declared reason one or both sides are killing.

They are both fair points Sam, I did put christians in inverta commas.

The poster I was responding to was incredibly sweeping statements, I thought subtle argument would be a waste of time.

mise_me_fein3

Gee Bag wrote: »

They are both fair points Sam, I did put christians in inverta commas.

The poster I was responding to was incredibly sweeping statements, I thought subtle argument would be a waste of time.

Sam's the man. He shot down your point beautifully. I only wish I had his intelligence. *sigh*

SamHarris

mise_me_fein3 wrote: »

So why were Irish and English at each other when they were both Catholics before the Reformation? The religion issue in Ireland identifies those who were native to the land and those who came after a plantation. That is the issue, not the religion.

Anyone that believes we came from Adam and Eve would have to be called an idiot.....the difference is, Christians seem to have leeway on this...Muslims, and especially those in the middle east....yes I have spoken to Saudis and Egyptians about it who don't like Islam.....the middle east muslims seem to be the worst for insulting our freedoms.....

The issue I have is that I applaud everyone for their tolerance, I know there are extremists in all relgions...I just wish there were the same percentage of extremists Muslims are there are Christians....if this was the case, the incident in Libya would not have happened

There are brands of Islam that would be as 'tolerant' as, say, christianity in its broadest and most unorganised sense - Sufi Islam springs to mind.

There are also brands that are near dedicated to delightful things like spreading the word about how Jews are controlling the world. The best known would be Sahabism.

Itwasntme.

SamHarris wrote: »

A religion is a set of beliefs - of course it can be 'dumb' or 'more dumb' than another.

In the case of race, your right, it has no baring on intelligence or actions.

Alright, in that case how is it any 'dumber' than Christianity?

"In Christianity and Islam, as in all religions, how followers choose to practice their beliefs is based on their interpretation and acceptance of Holy Scripture. Many passages in all forms of religious texts are outdated and are considered criminal if carried out in today's time, but are still discussed as part of the faith. In the Bible, dire warnings are dotted throughout the Old Testament for those who worship other gods or several gods at once. Deuteronomy 17 tells believers who come upon such a person to "bring that man or woman to the gates of the city ... and stone them with stones until they die.*

2.2 billion moslems, a lot more christians...the odds are large numbers of people are going to do stupid **** in the name of religion and they do. All the time. Everywhere. Some just get more publicity than others.

*Text got from somewhere on the internet.

SamHarris

Gee Bag wrote: »

They are both fair points Sam, I did put christians in inverta commas.

The poster I was responding to was incredibly sweeping statements, I thought subtle argument would be a waste of time.

I dont disagree with the point you were trying to make - and appreciate sometimes you have to blunt an argument to make it effective.

Don't think there is a need here - most people know every (or the vast majority) of religions CAN in theory be used to justify violence. Islam is not alone in this. The unique place socialy Islam finds itself in now, however, means it is much more common in this case.

Victor

SamHarris wrote: »

Also, its different for religion to be a seperation line in a conflict and for it to be the declared reason one or both sides are killing.

Many a person in Northern Ireland was killed simply because they were of a different religion.

SamHarris

Itwasntme. wrote: »

Alright, in that case how is it any 'dumber' than Christianity?

"In Christianity and Islam, as in all religions, how followers choose to practice their beliefs is based on their interpretation and acceptance of Holy Scripture. Many passages in all forms of religious texts are outdated and are considered criminal if carried out in today's time, but are still discussed as part of the faith. In the Bible, dire warnings are dotted throughout the Old Testament for those who worship other gods or several gods at once. Deuteronomy 17 tells believers who come upon such a person to "bring that man or woman to the gates of the city ... and stone them with stones until they die.*

2.2 billion moslems, a lot more christians...the odds are large numbers of people are going to do stupid **** in the name of religion and they do. All the time. Everywhere. Some just get more publicity than others.

*Text got from somewhere on the internet.

Oh I dont think it is any dumber than any Abrahamic relgion- looking at it objectivly they are all based on things we know to be impossible.

SamHarris

Victor wrote: »

Many a person in Northern Ireland was killed simply because they were of a different religion.

That wasnt exactly my point - killing someone because of THEIR religion is different again.

Gee Bag

mise_me_fein3 wrote: »

So why were Irish and English at each other when they were both Catholics before the Reformation? The religion issue in Ireland identifies those who were native to the land and those who came after a plantation. That is the issue, not the religion.

Dunno, originally it might have had something to do with the English invading Ireland.

Post reformation religion became a dividing line.....

• The Confederate Wars
• Penal Laws
• Catholic Emancipation
• Orange Men
• Taking the soup
• etc., etc., etc.,

Ever heard of any of these?

mise_me_fein3

SamHarris wrote: »

There are brands of Islam that would be as 'tolerant' as, say, christianity in its broadest and most unorganised sense - Sufi Islam springs to mind.

There are also brands that are near dedicated to delightful things like spreading the word about how Jews are controlling the world. The best known would be Sahabism.

You make a good point but I still maintain there are far more muslim extremists than of any other religion.

All religion insults anyone of intelligence but Islam seems to threaten more than others.

I dunno, maybe it's just the Arabs. I spoke to two muslims, one from Indonesia and one from Saudi. They disagreed on the burka and the Saudi guy was more conservative.

They are privileged because they live on oil. Their ideas are out of date. The main problem is state and religion being together...We were backward and we still are a little but cannot hold a candle to what they are doing in the middle east.

Yakult

**** Muhammad in the ear and finish in his eye.


Come at me bros!

mise_me_fein3

Gee Bag wrote: »

Dunno, originally it might have had something to do with the English invading Ireland.

Post reformation religion became a dividing line.....

• The Confederate Wars
• Penal Laws
• Catholic Emancipation
• Orange Men
• Taking the soup
• etc., etc., etc.,

Ever heard of any of these?

Religion reinforced the issue, but religion was not THE issue.

For those guys killing someone over a movie....religion is THE issue.

Ever feel like drawing Jesus Christ, go ahead, no on will mind....be careful about MoMo though...you will get someone that WILL want to kill you it you promote if enough.

Dyr

Itwasntme. wrote: »

2.2 billion moslems, a lot more christians...the odds are large numbers of people are going to do stupid **** in the name of religion and they do. All the time. Everywhere. Some just get more publicity than others.

The thing is islam is not a religion in the same sense that modern christianity is, Islam is an entire social structure. There are no christian states left in the world that I can think of, outside the vatican. Plenty of islamic ones.

Gee Bag

mise_me_fein3 wrote: »

You make a good point but I still maintain there are far more muslim extremists than of any other religion.

At the moment this is probably correct, but it is not the point you were originally making

I dunno, maybe it's just the Arabs. I spoke to two muslims, one from Indonesia and one from Saudi. They disagreed on the burka and the Saudi guy was more conservative.

The arabs are a very large ethnic group, not all muslims are Arabs nor are all Arabs muslim.

There are Islamic extremists in West Africa, South West Asia, South East Asia etc. None of these societies are Arabic.

They are privileged because they live on oil.

Palestinians aren't oil rich, Yemeni's aren't oil rich, Tunisian's aren't oil rich, etc, etc.

Their ideas are out of date

So are ill informed sweeping generalisations.

mise_me_fein3 wrote: »

Religion reinforced the issue, but religion was not THE issue.

Religion became the issue, over the course of 750 odd years things tend to change quite a bit.

asherbassad

SamHarris wrote: »

You can name a religion who's protests turn as consistently violent as Islam's?

Not diverse enough when it comes to things like this - see cartoon killings.

If, say for example. Jewish people went on a rampage every time something insulting to them was created, in the Arab world or elsewhere we would be living in a near constant bloodbath. But they don't - their community has clearly chosen to deal with propoganda in a different way.

Catholics and Protestants every year in July.

The reason Muslims go ballistic so often is because the West insults them so often and it does so to vilify them so as to make people like you think they are all crazy and that it's ok to kill of them and take their oil. Native Americans were a pretty violent bunch for about 300 years (they were fighting back) until they were ethnically cleansed ... 30 million of them.
Of course they were just superstitious savages as well who deserved to be butchered, right down to the toddlers.

mise_me_fein3

Gee Bag wrote: »

At the moment this is probably correct, but it is not the point you were originally making




The arabs are a very large ethnic group, not all muslims are Arabs nor are all Arabs muslim.

There are Islamic extremists in West Africa, South West Asia, South East Asia etc. None of these societies are Arabic.



Palestinians aren't oil rich, Yemeni's aren't oil rich, Tunisian's aren't oil rich, etc, etc.



So are ill informed sweeping generalisations.

I dont know about the extremists outside of the Arab world. Maybe it's because the Arabs states are mostly muslim states while the others are states which contain muslims....the muslim states actually promote violence against cartoons.

All Arab countries aren't oil rich but the region is. They all seem to have a problem with Israel even though the mainly affect only the Palestines.


A lof of western people are not educated to your level. Maybe you have more intelligence than me for example. Some people of lower education may feel angry about what muslims do, the same way they feel angry at the west....the difference is we are not grouping up all the males in the local area to group together and murder someone in a foreign embassy.

Sweeping statements and hatred against people exist everywhere but large groups of these people have only congregated to kill and plunder because of cartoon and movies in mostly Arab countries...by the way, I know 2 Christians from Egypt and they hate the situation there...I am fully aware of how they treat Christians in places like Pakistan(not arab I know) and Egypt. Let's just say the muslims in Birmingham have it slightly better.

Itwasntme.

Bambi wrote: »

The thing is islam is not a religion in the same sense that modern christianity is, Islam is an entire social structure. There are no christian states left in the world that I can think of, outside the vatican. Plenty of islamic ones.

Hmm...social structure. It's a good thing I wouldn't have to go to the UK if I wanted to have an abortion because Christianity today is totally separated from the state.

SamHarris

asherbassad wrote: »

Catholics and Protestants every year in July.

The reason Muslims go ballistic so often is because the West insults them so often and it does so to vilify them so as to make people like you think they are all crazy and that it's ok to kill of them and take their oil. Native Americans were a pretty violent bunch for about 300 years (they were fighting back) until they were ethnically cleansed ... 30 million of them.
Of course they were just superstitious savages as well who deserved to be butchered, right down to the toddlers.

Yes I notice the enormous failures of Islam. I must be demanding to put them all in a camp. :rolleyes:

What the hell does the native Americans have to do with anything?

This post is honestly like someone jokingly trying to be a hippy. Is this a joke? Its good.

SamHarris

Itwasntme. wrote: »

Hmm...social structure. It's a good thing I wouldn't have to go to the UK if I wanted to have an abortion because Christianity today is totally separated from the state.

Hardly a good point, unless you equate religion having an effect on policy and a complete country dedicated to enforcing violently and implementing the creeds of one.

mise_me_fein3

Itwasntme. wrote: »

Hmm...social structure. It's a good thing I wouldn't have to go to the UK if I wanted to have an abortion because Christianity today is totally separated from the state.

Is abortion really about religion or is about how people feel on when a life exists. I am not a believer in God but I am not pro abortion.

Anyway, we've been moving away from the Church gradually....if anything the middle east seems to be moving towards more Islamification.

old_aussie

The cancer spreads

asherbassad

Why do people insist on insulting Muslims so often anyway?
And everyone screams "free speech" or "why are they so touchy?"

Well if that's the case then why do we have to treat the Jews with such kid gloves? Either apply the same rules to criticising Israel as you do to pissing off Muslims or be as PC with Islam as you are with Judaism.

But don't be hypocritical and have one set of rules for one and a different set for the other.

Wasn't there outrage among Christians not long ago about that Jerry Springer opera which depicted Jesus in a nappy?
Don't Christians routinely attack and even kill abortion clinic workers in the name of their religion.
So the Muslims are a sensitive bunch. They ought to be...people love to piss them off just for fun.

Dyr

Itwasntme. wrote: »

Hmm...social structure. It's a good thing I wouldn't have to go to the UK if I wanted to have an abortion because Christianity today is totally separated from the state.

Would you like me to show how you thin you had to stretch that analogy to make it work? Or can you see that already and just had a go anyway?

mise_me_fein3

Are people here really defending the actions taken by those that killed in the name of religion because of a movie?

That is the point....they killed people because of a movie. There were 1000s protesting that from the look of it were on the same side as the killers.

If anyone kills for their freedom, even if they think they are fighting a way for their land...maybe we can understand to a certain extent but it looks like people are being defended here for inciting murder because of a movie?

Show of hands..? Should we ban movies like this now?

SamHarris

asherbassad wrote: »

Why do people insist on insulting Muslims so often anyway?
And everyone screams "free speech" or "why are they so touchy?"

Well if that's the case then why do we have to treat the Jews with such kid gloves? Either apply the same rules to criticising Israel as you do to pissing off Muslims or be as PC with Islam as you are with Judaism.
.

Because it is a free speech issue

If you dont know about the enormous amount of vitriol out there towards Jews, your not trying very hard to see it. Thats probably a product of them not being as violent and abrassive when something is said they disagree with.

Islam, concidering the damage it causes and place in the world right now, is amazingly low key in media outlets - or at least discussions of the real probelms with the ideology. Some indy media guy making a movie in a Western state is not some kind of all out assault. We shouldnt, and I hope to god wont, taylor our laws so that poeople cant say or do anything on account of the fact it 'insults' anyone. Least of all people on the other side of the world.The very idea is insulting to me.

Unless, of course, you consider reporting on the many attacks and protests in the name of Islam as "intentionaly insulting". In which case, they do a damn good job of insulting themselves.

spank_inferno

asherbassad wrote: »

Wasn't there outrage among Christians not long ago about that Jerry Springer opera which depicted Jesus in a nappy?

Don't Christians routinely attack and even kill abortion clinic workers in the name of their religion.

So the Muslims are a sensitive bunch. They ought to be...people love to piss them off just for fun.

1) There was some outrage.... but no-body died (key differential there).

2) Yes... but again its rare & not at all "routine" as you say.

3) They are sensitive, too sensitive.

ejmaztec

old_aussie wrote: »

The cancer spreads

You must be slipping, only managing to kick off on post number 81.

mise_me_fein3

Anyone know what apostasy is? Leaving your religion.

If we leave the Church here nothing happens, if muslims leave in an arab country they are subject to the death penalty.

A minor difference I suppose, but might go to show how these places end up like they are.

jmayo

mise_me_fein3 wrote: »

Yes I do know muslims. The only one I respect is a friend that is from Saudi that hates Islam and all relgions....he admits it is terrible that the women do nothing there....they have so much money but all they do is shop. The foreign nanny brings up the child while the mother is driven to the shops in the burka...total crap.

Bosnia might have saw massacre but the people that live there are good people....what is your point? I dont think Bosnians will kill because of a cartoon...mad arabs will.

Actually mujahideen that went to Bosnia to fight were not at all impressed with the way young Bosnia muslim women dressed or how they drank booze.

Gee Bag wrote: »

So your answer to intolerance is...........................intolerance.

The mind boggles.

The funny thing is that in the end you get your ars* kicked for being too tolerant of some intolerant ideologies and I call fundamentalist religion to be just as bad an ideology as fascism or marxism for intolerance of others.

Do you think the British authorities were right in being tolerant for so long of people like Abu Hamza al-Masri ?
Where does it get you in the end ?

The same actually goes for the National Front spanners.

Of course being intolerant of these spanners is not politically correct and won't win votes with certain people but the greater good of the majority has to be seen.

Killer Wench wrote: »

The people of the United States absolutely do not want to engage in another war. We cannot afford the human lives and we cannot afford to fund another five to ten years of ongoing conflict with cultures across the world. In terms of Obama's re-election, this was absolutely the worse turn of events for his campaign.

It was bad enough that Israel is threatening to strike against Iran very soon, and they are placing pressure on the US government to support their action, but now we have groups storming our embassies in Egypt and Libya.

These threads are always fascinating to me. The US is damned if we do act and damned if we don't.

Oh, the people of Syria are being killed by the government - why hasn't the US done something!

Oh, look at the US intervening in Iran - why don't they leave the world alone!

Let's put it out on the table. The US is like the western world's booty call. We aren't good enough for y'all to want to take home to meet ma, but you'll give us a call when you need us.

Yep that's about it.

asherbassad wrote: »

Catholics and Protestants every year in July.

The reason Muslims go ballistic so often is because the West insults them so often and it does so to vilify them so as to make people like you think they are all crazy and that it's ok to kill of them and take their oil.

Oh FFS.
The West insults them.
What the fook are you on about ?
The West if anything goes easy on muslims because at this stage they have been shown to be humourless and up tight about their religion.

Note I am using the word muslims as the preceeding poster.
Not all muslims feel insulted just like not all muslims want to go out and kill journalists, cartoonists and film makers.

asherbassad wrote: »

Native Americans were a pretty violent bunch for about 300 years (they were fighting back) until they were ethnically cleansed ... 30 million of them.
Of course they were just superstitious savages as well who deserved to be butchered, right down to the toddlers.

How you can compare Native Americans to muslims is beyond me or are you just trying to have a go at the US. :rolleyes:

asherbassad wrote: »

Why do people insist on insulting Muslims so often anyway?
And everyone screams "free speech" or "why are they so touchy?"

I would hate to see you if you were Jewish. :rolleyes:

asherbassad wrote: »

Well if that's the case then why do we have to treat the Jews with such kid gloves? Either apply the same rules to criticising Israel as you do to pissing off Muslims or be as PC with Islam as you are with Judaism.

But don't be hypocritical and have one set of rules for one and a different set for the other.

Wasn't there outrage among Christians not long ago about that Jerry Springer opera which depicted Jesus in a nappy?

I don't recall anyone attacking and killing staff at a US embassy over that ?

asherbassad wrote: »

Don't Christians routinely attack and even kill abortion clinic workers in the name of their religion.
So the Muslims are a sensitive bunch. They ought to be...people love to piss them off just for fun.

Are you muslim by any chance ?
You do seem a sensitive soul.

CucaFace

Regarding the Issue in the North I'm shocked many Irish people think this really is about Religion.

It’s all about National Identity, it just so happens its divided along religious lines also as a result of the Ulster plantations.

You never really heard the IRA calling for the protestants to convert to Catholicism, or vice versa.

Yes there will be trouble soon over some marches, but how many of those who march in the orange order or those from the nationalist communities will actually attend church or have any real beliefs in their religions?

Their religion is really just another symbol of their national allegiances.

It’s all about being Irish or British so I don't think its correct using the trouble up North as a fair comparison to how Muslims extremists carry out some Appling acts.

asherbassad

mise_me_fein3 wrote: »

Correct, it was all about selling oil with a gold dinar....Saddam sold oil in Euros...if you don't sell oil in a currency the US can print from thin air...you will be in trouble.

That doesn't really have anything to do with how we have to be nice to muslims and tolerate them though. I don't believe in God but Christians can accept this....muslims judge and really the thing is....they trully treat women like dirt.

Ever been to a Muslim country? I have....quite a few of them.
The vast majority of Muslim men absolutely revere women. If you ever turn on an Arab TV music station it's 24/7 loves songs with images of raven haired beauties and love-sick men singing to them. In the mountains where the rednecks live they treat women like sh!t but that could be the same in Italy or Ireland or West Virginia.

You'll never hear a Muslim telling a joke about a woman like how she's dumb or talking about pussy or making disparaging mysogynistic comments like us oh-so-civilised western folk do on a daily basis.

and in other news:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/become-muslim-beat-your-wife-televangelist-advises-us-man.aspx?pageID=238&nID=29950&NewsCatID=358

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/french-mosque-desecrated-by-human-excrement.aspx?pageID=238&nID=29955&NewsCatID=351

D-Generate

Ah the apologists are out in full force today representing the Middle Eastern territories.

There is a serious cultural issue there regarding the sanctity of Islam and the rights of others to hold different beliefs. Expressing an opinion, even if considered offensive, in no way justifies an attack result in the deaths of civilians or government staff. Anyone who thinks that there is even a fraction of responsibility at the feet of the US government or the film producers for the murder in the consulate is choosing to ignore and make apologies for the undertones of violence which are endemic in Islamic states.

Unfortunately, after these events I am of the opinion that the West should just stay out of any involvement in Syria and personally, I am now inclined to support Assad as the countries leader. Better the devil I know than one who thinks that a comic strip or film justifies murderer innocents.

asherbassad

Killer Wench wrote: »

The people of the United States absolutely do not want to engage in another war. We cannot afford the human lives and we cannot afford to fund another five to ten years of ongoing conflict with cultures across the world. In terms of Obama's re-election, this was absolutely the worse turn of events for his campaign.

It was bad enough that Israel is threatening to strike against Iran very soon, and they are placing pressure on the US government to support their action, but now we have groups storming our embassies in Egypt and Libya.

These threads are always fascinating to me. The US is damned if we do act and damned if we don't.

Oh, the people of Syria are being killed by the government - why hasn't the US done something!

Oh, look at the US intervening in Iran - why don't they leave the world alone!

Let's put it out on the table. The US is like the western world's booty call. We aren't good enough for y'all to want to take home to meet ma, but you'll give us a call when you need us.

What a complete load of naive bollocks.

The US is the one stoking up the trouble in Syria. It was the US who stoked up the trouble in Iran in 1953 in order to overthrow the democratically elected Mossadegh and replace him with a brutal dictator who would kill tens of thousands of his own but allow British and US oil companies to steal Iranian resources. Iran on became "scumbags" again when they overthrew the Shah and took their oil back.
It was the US who stoked up trouble in Chile to overthrow the democratically elected Allende, kill him and install the dictator Pinochet who would be a Washington stooge.
The US even support that psycho Ceaucescu in Romania until it became politically untenable to do so and then they cut him loose.

You don't know what you're talking about so please don't insult people's intelligence with these glib "damned if we do, damned if we don't" cliches.

The US gets involved when it stands to gain financially and that's it.

snafuk35

Is Romney's hand in all this?
The Mormon wing of the CIA has cut a deal with Al-Qaeda.
Killing Stevens has made Obama look like an appeaser of Islam and Romney wins in November.
Romney's real agenda is that Islamism can take over the Middle East and Mormonism can take over the US.
The Muslims will get American dollars and the Mormons can get cheap gas!

Killer Wench

asherbassad wrote: »

The US is the one stoking up the trouble in Syria.

I stopped reading after this sentence.

RGM

Killer Wench wrote: »

The people of the United States absolutely do not want to engage in another war. We cannot afford the human lives and we cannot afford to fund another five to ten years of ongoing conflict with cultures across the world. In terms of Obama's re-election, this was absolutely the worse turn of events for his campaign.

It was bad enough that Israel is threatening to strike against Iran very soon, and they are placing pressure on the US government to support their action, but now we have groups storming our embassies in Egypt and Libya.

These threads are always fascinating to me. The US is damned if we do act and damned if we don't.

Oh, the people of Syria are being killed by the government - why hasn't the US done something!

Oh, look at the US intervening in Iran - why don't they leave the world alone!

Let's put it out on the table. The US is like the western world's booty call. We aren't good enough for y'all to want to take home to meet ma, but you'll give us a call when you need us.

Nobody should have any sympathy for us Americans as long as we continue to condone the actions of our government by voting in the sham elections featuring two halves of the one party that rules our country.

CucaFace

Honestly the sooner all religions are wiped from the face of this planet the better.

It’s the next step in human evolvement.

Wompa1

RGM wrote: »

Nobody should have any sympathy for us Americans as long as we continue to condone the actions of our government by voting in the sham elections featuring two halves of the one party that rules our country.

That's like blaming the Irish voters for the mess Finna Fail an Fine Gael have created. Presidents since the 80's have alternated from Democratic to Republican.

Personally as an American voter I think I agree with the Ron Paul stance (not on everything!) on the global policy. Stay out of other countries business. America doesn't need to police the world, sure up the troops in the country and protect it's own people. If, theoretically Ireland was invaded tomorrow by say Turkey or same crowd. America should stay out of it. That's Irelands fight to have. They should have stayed out of Vietnam, it was not their conflict to get involved in. They should have stayed out of Korea and Kuwait. They don't need to ally themselves with others. They could have just defended their own lands in WW2. What did they really do anyway? It was all the Russians

Wompa1

CucaFace wrote: »

Honestly the sooner all religions are wiped from the face of this planet the better.

It’s the next step in human evolvement.

Science be praised

Dyr

asherbassad wrote: »

. In the mountains where the rednecks live they treat women like sh!t but that could be the same in Italy or Ireland or West Virginia.

When they're hurling rocks at women in cavan be sure to let me know, until then you can pipe down with your comparisons.

ejmaztec

asherbassad wrote: »

What a complete load of naive bollocks.

The US is the one stoking up the trouble in Syria. It was the US who stoked up the trouble in Iran in 1953 in order to overthrow the democratically elected Mossadegh and replace him with a brutal dictator who would kill tens of thousands of his own but allow British and US oil companies to steal Iranian resources. Iran on became "scumbags" again when they overthrew the Shah and took their oil back.
It was the US who stoked up trouble in Chile to overthrow the democratically elected Allende, kill him and install the dictator Pinochet who would be a Washington stooge.
The US even support that psycho Ceaucescu in Romania until it became politically untenable to do so and then they cut him loose.

You don't know what you're talking about so please don't insult people's intelligence with these glib "damned if we do, damned if we don't" cliches.

The US gets involved when it stands to gain financially and that's it.

Unless the Russians and the Chinese tell them to back off, as they've done in the case of Syria.

asherbassad

mise_me_fein3 wrote: »

Yes I do know muslims. The only one I respect is a friend that is from Saudi that hates Islam and all relgions....he admits it is terrible that the women do nothing there....they have so much money but all they do is shop. The foreign nanny brings up the child while the mother is driven to the shops in the burka...total crap.

Bosnia might have saw massacre but the people that live there are good people....what is your point? I dont think Bosnians will kill because of a cartoon...mad arabs will.

This is perhaps one of the dumbest things I've ever read.
If he hates Islam and all religions then he's not a fcuking muslim, is he??

Or do you think that muslims are something different to followers of Islam?
(It would explain a lot).