US ambassador killed in Libya

Wee Willy Harris

arab spring is in effect proper now isnt it. i think america might reap all its meddling in one fell swoop, by the looks of things why bother besides wasn't that pastor antagonist warned off such things before the likes of what tipped the apple cart, too?

they need to remove themselves from the region, imo n let the dust settle over a couple of.. centuries. only solution, even these people can see that in taking it into their own hands albeit settling for the symbolic gesture of one ambassador.. stubborn lot the yanks, in their crusade for the greater good and a better tomorrow. Have a nice, day

Wompa1

Wee Willy Harris wrote: »

arab spring is in effect proper now isnt it. i think america might reap all its meddling in one fell swoop, by the looks of things why bother besides wasn't that pastor antagonist warned off such things before the likes of what tipped the apple cart, too?

they need to remove themselves from the region, imo n let the dust settle over a couple of.. centuries. only solution, even these people can see that in taking it into their own hands albeit settling for the symbolic gesture of one ambassador.. stubborn lot the yanks, in their crusade for the greater good and a better tomorrow. Have a nice, day

And what about the Germans, did they deserve it? It hasn't just been the Americans and Brits targeted.

Wee Willy Harris

Wompa1 wrote: »

And what about the Germans, did they deserve it? It hasn't just been the Americans and Brits targeted.

protest against aldi? maybe just got caught up in the melee... theyre known to be kind of intrusive too, with the greatest beneficiary their own pocket so... yeah i mean no.

asherbassad

Wompa1 wrote: »

Who's they? The guys that released the video had nothing to do with the people that were killed! Are you suggesting they deserved to die because some guys that live in America released a demeaning video about Islam!?

Not suggesting a thing, Womp.

Just questioning everything I'm told.....it's a weakness I guess.

Wompa1

asherbassad wrote: »

Not suggesting a thing, Womp.

Just questioning everything I'm told.....it's a weakness I guess.

Are you questioning everything or just information regarding one side?

asherbassad

Wompa1 wrote: »

Are you questioning everything or just information regarding one side?

I don't understand the question.

Wompa1

asherbassad wrote: »

I don't understand the question.

From your posts on here it does seem like you are questioning the motives and actions of America and the guy who made the video. That's not the whole story surely

asherbassad

Wompa1 wrote: »

Are you questioning everything or just information regarding one side?

Womp,

You've just very agressively asked, no, demanded, if I condoned violence or if I suggested that people deserved to die for whatever reason. Not only that, but the manner in which you posed this question strikes not only I but others that you think I would take such a stance.
Insulting. Immature, but insulting nonetheless.

Wompa1

asherbassad wrote: »

Womp,

You've just very agressively asked, no, demanded, if I condoned violence or if I suggested that people deserved to die for whatever reason. Not only that, but the manner in which you posed this question strikes not only I but others that you think I would take such a stance.
Insulting. Immature, but insulting nonetheless.

Maybe read the rest of your posts and see for yourself. What was aggressive about how I asked. I'm of the thought that America should just pull all diplomats from the countries and have nothing more to do with them. It seems to be what people want so just give it to them. There's nothing to be gained by staying

old hippy

Wompa1 wrote: »

Maybe read the rest of your posts and see for yourself. What was aggressive about how I asked. I'm of the thought that America should just pull all diplomats from the countries and have nothing more to do with them. It seems to be what people want so just give it to them. There's nothing to be gained by staying

Apart from exploiting natural resources and opening the countries up to trade and wonderful capitalist opportunities...

czx

old hippy wrote: »

Apart from exploiting natural resources and opening the countries up to trade and wonderful capitalist opportunities...

i.e. bringing the country into the First World

SamHarris

asherbassad wrote: »

And you know something......people screech and sqwuak about "them".

Stop fcuking with them and then you'll stop dying. It's quite simple.

It's laughable watching these Washington clowns try to use "uhhhmm" new methods "uuuhhhhmm" to "uuhhmm" pacify and democratize "uuuhhhhmmmmm" the world....."uuuhhhhhmmmm" FCUK YEAH!

About the only people that have a more stupid vision of the world than the one you created in the bottom paragraph are far left Cters.

SamHarris

old hippy wrote: »

Apart from exploiting natural resources and opening the countries up to trade and wonderful capitalist opportunities...

If they didnt have/ didnt sell their oil the region would be comparable to sub Sahara Africa in levels of poverty. The stupidity of the idea that they wouldnt 'exploit' their natural rescources, leaving that damn oil in the ground where it belongs!, is obvious. Most ARab countries have the vast majority of their captial owned by the army/ the government so they have resisted pretty well the opening of their countries to the capitalist opportunities that have enriched much of the rest of the world that have embraced them.

It's getting worse now, any excuse and these extremists are off :rolleyes:

An Iranian religious foundation has increased its reward for the killing of British author Salman Rushdie, in response to a U.S. made film that mocks the Prophet Mohammad, sparking protests across the Muslim world.

Full article here:

http://news.yahoo.com/iranian-foundation-ups-price-rushdies-head-185408413.html

SamHarris

asherbassad wrote: »

Not suggesting a thing, Womp.

Just questioning everything I'm told.....it's a weakness I guess.

Its interesting that you say you question 'everything' and that everyone here could without a shadow guess what the answers to all your questions will be. You very clearly only question what you want to be different, to the point of ignoring enormous evidence for what the answer is.

So, for example, the protests are not about a movie to you, but about US policy in the region. The fact the protestors are pretty explicit what they are right now protesting against, and that an nearly exact same reaction could be seen towards the Danes, should 'answer' the question for any reasonable person. You dont like the answer so you keep 'questioning' and attempt to hide you political agenda as some sort of intellectual thouroughness.

I could go on with that point - that the worst attack took place in Libya where there had been a dictator who never enjoyed any US support and was removed only after direct help from them. Or the dumbass insinuation that radical Islamists are democrats.

You can see similiar politicaly motivated 'questioning' by any reproter or political commentator who spend their time desperatly making excuses for Muslim attrocities, like Robert Fisk or Mark LeVine. It must be very tiring considering that as soon as one storm passes another comes.

SamHarris

old hippy wrote: »

Why? I don't go out and protest when some Irish extremists kill in the name of their country - they don't represent me or who I am.

You might not, tens of thousands did.

SamHarris

asherbassad wrote: »

Oh DEAR!!!

The plot thickens.

So everyone screeches about Muslims being offended, yet the rioting is long in the coming and now this:

hahahahaha

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/revealed-inside-story-of-us-envoys-assassination-8135797.html

Don't get me wrong, I like living where I am free to drink Coke or Pepsi (even though I hate both) but this is laughable.

... What do you think that article said, out of curiousity? Your reaction seems to have nothing to do with it.

Its also very telling how 'funny' it is that a diplomat was killed. You really are emblematic of apologosits for radical Islam - unfotunatly not just slow, but immoral and insulting.

I'm just glad for the vast majority of people its becoming harder and harder to ignore what became clear 12 years ago - that Islam has very serious issues that it is now the moral obligation of moderates to confront.

SamHarris

hellboy99 wrote: »

It's getting worse now, any excuse and these extremists are off :rolleyes:



Full article here:

http://news.yahoo.com/iranian-foundation-ups-price-rushdies-head-185408413.html

Of course they do. They seem pretty determined to prove their few remaining champions in the West wrong.

asherbassad

namloc1980 wrote: »

Imagine if a group of Christians carried on like these Muslim "protesters" in a place like Saudi Arabia, they'd swiftly find themselves on the wrong end of a beheading. If they have a problem with Western culture and values then why don't they go and live in an Islamic country??



Why should these lunatics dictate what does or does not constitute free speech? BTW I think this film is appallingly bad but I would also defend the right to make it.

So if I scream CNUT at your grandmother 1000 times are you going to punch me in the face and gladly go to jail for 6 months for assault? Upon your release you see me (legally) still calling her a cnut. You hit me again only to now serve 3 years. I'm still calling her a cnut while you're inside. I've broken no law.
I'm the dickhead and I've provoked you. Yeah, I'm "free" to call your granny names until the cows come home. Doesn't make it alright. Yeah, you're free to make a movie showing Mohamed as a pimp or Jesus as a rent boy....still doesn't make it alright.

partyatmygaff

asherbassad wrote: »

Just questioning everything I'm told.....it's a weakness I guess.

You having a weakness I can believe. You being an all-knowing intellectual who happens to be an authority on these issues I can't.

asherbassad wrote: »

And you know something......people screech and sqwuak about "them".

Stop fcuking with them and then you'll stop dying. It's quite simple.

Poor persecuted Muslims having to endure the horrors of someone taking verses from their own holy book and recording renditions of them in badly made film :rolleyes:

One thing though, are you a Muslim? You've been (badly) defending the indefensible and refusing to outright condemn the reprehensible for a few hundred posts now.

SamHarris

asherbassad wrote: »

So if I scream CNUT at your grandmother 1000 times are you going to punch me in the face and gladly go to jail for 6 months for assault? Upon your release you see me (legally) still calling her a cnut. You hit me again only to now serve 3 years. I'm still calling her a cnut while you're inside. I've broken no law.
I'm the dickhead and I've provoked you. Yeah, I'm "free" to call your granny names until the cows come home. Doesn't make it alright. Yeah, you're free to make a movie showing Mohamed as a pimp or Jesus as a rent boy....still doesn't make it alright.

So if a man shouted at a Muslim insulting Mohammed, and that Muslim punched that man, you would begin to have a point. Or if people were in the habit of organising massive violent protests all over their territories after a person of a particular nationality or group calling their grandmother a 'cnut' over the internet, then we would be begining to see parralels. Neither is the case here.

I'm very glad no jounalist or publication in the West thats not completly out in the political left field is even begining to suggest free speech be curtailed here because of yet another violent over reaction from this group.

Though too many are already printing to many articles about 'who was this man who made the movie?' already. No reasonable person should give a crap who made the sordid mockery. The focus should purely and unequivocably be on who and why people feel the urge to murder and destroy over the matter.

Muslims do more to insult and bring ill repute on their own religion every day than any number of movies or other media produced in the West.

The sooner they realise it is not the 'zionist' controlled media or CTs that are 'vilifying' them the world over but instead the actions of some of those within their ranks that does it, the better.

SamHarris

partyatmygaff wrote: »

One thing though, are you a Muslim? You've been (badly) defending the indefensible and refusing to outright condemn the reprehensible for a few hundred posts now.

Its not uncommon for hardcore CTers have the same position. You see the Muslims, and Arabs in particular, do not like and are fighting the Jews. This is a good thing. If you stand in opposition to the Zionists, and the US, whatever your own actions, positions, reasons or mindset you are the good guys.

It's a complete joke that these people actually manage to convince each other they are more clever or have more complex opinions than the average person. After talking to one for 5 minutes you could finish their sentences for them, preempt any position on any political or historical situation they will take and list pretty easily the media and news sites they deem 'trustworthy'. All this, obviously, indicates a profound lack of any complexity.

SamHarris

SamHarris wrote: »

No reasonable person should give a crap who made the sordid mockery. The focus should purely and unequivocably be on who and why people feel the urge to murder and destroy over the matter.

+1

It's absolutely ridiculous now at this stage, tens of thousands of protesters are rallying against the film in Beirut today following a call for mass demonstrations by Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah. He wants the US held accountable for the film because it was produced in America, like really, a bit hypocritical of him now so it is him telling another country what to do.

Last time I checked the US had something called "freedom of speech and religion". By all means protest if you don't like the film, protest in a peaceful manner and direct them protests at the people that made the film, you don't go and hold the entire country accountable for it and kill innocent people all because of a stupid film.

Here's a radical idea for all them extremists, "don't watch the film!"

IvySlayer

These protesters are calling for new blasphemy laws.

PLEASE DO NOT PANDER TO THESE PEOPLE!!

up for anything

They are not the only people the Americans are pissing off. I was listening to a chap speak about this on Newstalk radio today.

Full article

CHINA FAILS TO CURB FREE SPEECH IN US


When an artist in Corvallis painted a mural promoting independence for Tibet and Taiwan last month, the Chinese Consulate formally complained to major Julie Manning and asked her to remove the mural. But the mayor defended the mural, writing that "the First Amendment of the United States’ Constitution guarantees freedom of speech in this country, and this includes freedom of artistic expression."

asherbassad

Any Arab who knew Chris Stevens will express sadness at his death....but without a pause they will also say "if you feed a scorpion, it will bite."

The people that America have paid to topple those in Tripoli and Benghazi and have now been abandoned are doing the same thing as the Mujahideen of Afghanistan in 1985, that were abandoned after they smashed the Red Army. They subsequently became the Taliban.
Idiots in Whitehall and Paris and Washington gaze at their tv screen between frappucinnos and Excel spreadsheets and wonder what is happening. These aimless tits didn't even read a history book. They didn't need to. Normally it takes maybe 100 years before some clown drowns his armies in a place that is unbeatable. The Brits and Americans have done it 3 times now in the last 11 years.
And they're off to get busy with Syria and Iran too.

yep.

Chauncey

These unbeatable places seem to do an excellent job of appearing to have had their asses handed to them at every available opportunity.
Part of a master plan, no doubt.

Dyr

hellboy99 wrote: »

Last time I checked the US had something called "freedom of speech and religion"

Freedom of speech and religion is an insult to islam! Pure provocation by the american infidel!! :mad:

Mervyn Crawford

Issues of class lie beneath the surface of worldwide protests. Religious fundamentalists, of any stripe, are by their very nature bitterly hostile to the struggle for social equality and are the natural allies of Imperialism.

.......Attempts by the US media to portray these protests as driven by religious sentiment, or the “traditionalism” of the Middle East, are reactionary and self-serving. The protests reflect broad popular opposition to Washington’s wars, its violation of elementary democratic rights in the conduct of the “war on terror,” and its exploitation of the region as a source of cheap labor.

The outpouring of popular anger against the US speaks as well to deep disillusionment with President Obama, who early in his tenure promised to pursue a new, less oppressive US foreign policy in the Middle East. In the four years since his election, however, the reactionary character of Obama’s foreign policy has been widely felt throughout the region.

His administration has defended the US invasion and occupation of Iraq, which cost over a million Iraqi lives and was launched on the basis of lies. Obama has continued the indefinite detention and torture of detainees at Guantánamo Bay, and expanded the use of drone strikes across the Middle East, Central Asia and parts of Africa, causing thousands of casualties.

Washington’s response to the current protests exposes the hypocrisy underlying the wars it has carried out, in the name of democracy and human rights, in response to last year’s revolutionary working class struggles against US-backed dictatorships in Egypt and Tunisia. Having authored wars in Libya and Syria supposedly to halt the suppression of popular protests, Washington now demands that its allies crack down on protests against US policies.

These wars themselves were largely based on Washington’s backing of reactionary Sunni Islamist militias and terrorist groups tied to Al Qaeda. This policy has now backfired. It appears that the attack on the US consulate in Benghazi that resulted in the death of the US ambassador to Libya and three other Americans was carried out by the Islamist group Ansar al Shariah. It and similar armed groups are able to operate freely amid the social chaos provoked by the US war and the overthrow of Colonel Muammar Gaddafi.

Amid rising popular protests as well as attacks on US interests by right-wing forces the US has promoted in the Middle East, there is a growing debate within the US ruling class on how to proceed in the region. Some within the foreign policy establishment are suggesting that Washington might consider making a deal with President Assad on the grounds that he would be a better guarantor of order in Syria than the Al Qaeda-type forces the US is backing against him.

Thus the New York Times wrote on Monday: “The turmoil has only sharpened a painful quandary… Should the United States and its allies remain wary of toppling Mr. Assad, one of the region’s last secular dictators, whose rule, however repressive, has kept the forces of populist Islam in check?”

The Times cites foreign policy experts who argue for continuing the US proxy war in Syria. However, it also cites Brian Katulis of the Center for American Progress, who notes: “These incidents will further give people pause because already our intelligence agencies have been telling us that amongst the Syrian opposition—the people who we’re supposed to support—some of them are Al Qaeda affiliates.”

This debate exposes the utter cynicism of Washington’s supposed opposition to repressive regimes and the criminal character of US foreign policy overall. Hunan rights, democracy, protection of civilians are all pretexts for a neo-colonial policy aimed at securing US hegemony in the Middle East and control over the region’s energy resources.

Whether a repressive regime (Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, etc.) is an ally in the supposed struggle for democracy and peace or an enemy (Syria, Iran) is entirely dependent on Washington’s perception at a given time of its commercial and geo-strategic interests. There is a long list of one-time allies, including Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi, who were redefined as tyrants and targeted for destruction.

Washington views Middle East dictatorships as perfectly acceptable tools for use against popular opposition to US imperialism. It is prepared to make alliances with the most reactionary forces, including Al Qaeda, to suppress the working class.

http://wsws.org/articles/2012/sep2012/prot-s18.shtml

partyatmygaff

asherbassad wrote: »

Any Arab who knew Chris Stevens will express sadness at his death....but without a pause they will also say "if you feed a scorpion, it will bite."

Excuse me? "If you feed a scorpion, it will bite"?

The American government isn't harassing Muslims or persecuting them. An American citizen with no link to government made an amateur movie they didn't like and they became violent. The victims of all this stupidity are the people who've had to endure the idiotic, violent response around the world.

The people that America have paid to topple those in Tripoli and Benghazi and have now been abandoned are doing the same thing as the Mujahideen of Afghanistan in 1985, that were abandoned after they smashed the Red Army. They subsequently became the Taliban.

"Abandoned"

Weren't you saying the US was planning on occupying the entire Middle East a few pages ago with their fifty marine security detail?

Idiots in Whitehall and Paris and Washington gaze at their tv screen between frappucinnos and Excel spreadsheets and wonder what is happening. These aimless tits didn't even read a history book. They didn't need to. Normally it takes maybe 100 years before some clown drowns his armies in a place that is unbeatable. The Brits and Americans have done it 3 times now in the last 11 years.

They "wonder what's happening"
You take what's actually happening, change everything and then use it as a mindless Anti-American conspiracy or rant.

yep.

While we're on it... why do you constantly get cornered, hide for a day or so and then resurface with an entirely new angle to avoid answering people?

SamHarris

Mervyn Crawford wrote: »

Issues of class lie beneath the surface of worldwide protests. Religious fundamentalists, of any stripe, are by their very nature bitterly hostile to the struggle for social equality and are the natural allies of Imperialism.


http://wsws.org/articles/2012/sep2012/prot-s18.shtml

Of course it does :rolleyes: sure isnt that what the protestors are screaming?

snubbleste

A French magazine has gone and published mocking cartoons of Muhammad..
This has prompted heightened security at French missions abroad leading to temporary closure on Friday.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/19/charlie-hebdo-publishes-cartoons-of-the-prophet-mohammad_n_1895780.html

The cover of Charlie Hebdo today shows a Muslim in a wheelchair being pushed by an Orthodox Jew under the title Intouchables 2, referring to an award-winning French film about a poor black man who helps an aristocratic quadriplegic.
Another cartoon on the back page of the weekly magazine shows a naked turbaned Mohammed exposing his posterior to a film director, a scene inspired by a 1963 film starring French film star Brigitte Bardot

Means Of Escape

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Excuse me? "If you feed a scorpion, it will bite"?

The American government isn't harassing Muslims or persecuting them. An American citizen with no link to government made an amateur movie they didn't like and they became violent. The victims of all this stupidity are the people who've had to endure the idiotic, violent response around the world.


"Abandoned"

Weren't you saying the US was planning on occupying the entire Middle East a few pages ago with their fifty marine security detail?

They "wonder what's happening"
You take what's actually happening, change everything and then use it as a mindless Anti-American conspiracy or rant.

While we're on it... why do you constantly get cornered, hide for a day or so and then resurface with an entirely new angle to avoid answering people?

He's undercover CIA?

old hippy

I'd love to know what actually fuels the hostility. You just know if it wasn't an entire swathe of people, it would be another entire swathe of people