Hillsborough Cover-up revealed. MOD NOTE #1

GavRedKing

MOD NOTE :

Feel free to discuss this but be warned, ANY flaming/trolling/abuse will result in a ban, takes this as your one and only warning.

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http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/hillsborough-cover-up-exposed-566635.html

Police and emergency services in England made “strenuous attempts” to deflect the blame for the Hillsborough disaster onto innocent fans, newly published documents about the tragedy revealed today.

The disclosures were made by the Hillsborough Independent Panel, which has been overseeing the release of thousands of official documents relating to Britain’s deadliest sporting disaster.

Ninety-six Liverpool supporters died in a crush at Sheffield Wednesday’s Hillsborough stadium on April 15, 1989, where their team were to meet Nottingham Forest in an FA Cup semi-final.

Its taken sometime to come out but today, the people of Liverpool City, Families and friends of all those who perished and football fans in general have seen the police cover up of Hillsborough exposed, about time too, its taken too long to reach this point but hopefully it offers some comfort for those who lost friends and family members.

As a soccer fan this should have never happened and is the last thing you'd expect when going to support your team that you would not come back alive.

It's about time it's being admitted but I don't understand the "shock" being spoken about by the media over the destruction of statements etc., surely anyone with half a brain already knew.

Boom_Bap

Camerons speech can be heard here -> http://cdn.thejournal.ie/media/2012/09/20120912cameron.mp3

Thanx 4 The Fish

All,

I understand that there are many, many fans, not only of Liverpool but of football who will be disgusted by the actions of the police, ambulance service, coroners office and many other culpable agencies who attempted to cover up their failings on one of the most tragic days in football history. While the outrage is completely understandable, if you feel like you wish to post about the event, or those culpable throughout the day and following days then please do so within the charter.

We would also ask that as a member of boards you do your best not to libel anybody where there is no evidence to suggest wrong doing.

Finally, any trolling will be dealt with swiftly and harshly.

JFT96 - YNWA

Kiwi_knock

Absolutely explosive report. Shocked by the levels of cover-up. I can only hope that the families feel some sense of justice with their loved ones being exonerated from blame. Hopefully this is only the start of bringing the real perpetrators of not only the disaster but also the cover-up to justice.

Sappy404

Deleted User wrote: »

It's about time it's being admitted but I don't understand the "shock" being spoken about by the media over the destruction of statements etc., surely anyone with half a brain already knew.

Many will have turned a blind eye, or just refused to believe a cover-up that large could have taken place and assumed that at least some of the blame was with the fans. When you see the scale of it though, it truly is shocking.

@danroan

#hillsborough in numbers 96 died 59 may have survived 164 police officer statements amended 116 negative comments removed 23 years late

Xavi6

No need to libel anyone when the facts are there for all to be seen -

- 59 of the 96 could've survived

- 164 statements were deliberately amended

Fucking scum, every single one of them involved in the cover up :mad:

NabyLadistheman

Looks like their could be a new inquest into the deaths of the 96.

David Cameron "It is for Attorney General to decide whether to apply to High Court to quash the original inquest and seek a new one".

eigrod

Graham Kelly & the FA seem to be getting away lightly in all of this. The '81, '87 and '88 semi finals were all near misses for such an event happening, yet they ignored all the warning signs. Incompetent imbeciles.

quad_red

An appalling disregard for innocent life.

Sudden swift disasters are bad enough. But the slow inexorable chain of events, when people's distress and pain was plain to see yet authorities did nothing or just made things worse.

And then went out of their way to lay the blame onto the victims of their incompetence and negligence.

Shameful.

Pro. F

On to a new inquest and prosecutions from here hopefully. This has taken far too long.

eigrod

eigrod wrote: »

Graham Kelly & the FA seem to be getting away lightly in all of this. The '81, '87 and '88 semi finals were all near misses for such an event happening, yet they ignored all the warning signs. Incompetent imbeciles.

Its was a ticking time bomb.

Cramming over 3000 people into pens which were designed to safely hold 1600 was beyond belief.

The people who let this happen need to be held accountable.

NukaCola

Also.........dont buy/read The Sun

Mitch Connor

NukaCola wrote: »

Also.........dont buy/read The Sun

Is it not that The Sun did not deliberately report lies (which they have appologised for), as has been the accusation over the years; from what I have heard of the report there was a concerted effort from the people who would have been providing information to the press, to mislead the press and therefore the public. The Sun and its reporter(s) were lied to by the Police, close news agency's and a member of parliament, in order to paint a distasteful and disgusting picture of the Liverpool fans and take blame and accusing fingers away from the authorities.

Yes, The Sun reported disgusting things, but things they were told by multiple people they should have been able to report on with confidence - they are a victim of the cover up the police and authorities.

If you take the findings of the report, as horrific as they are, why do you not take it a step further and see that there is a very real possibility that The Sun were caught by the coverup as opposed to being part of it.

EDIT: Do the findings of the report say The Sun were part of the cover up?

Agent Smith

I wonder if the sun will apologise now?

Slattsy

I've been close to tears in work reading through all the various reports/blogs all day.

Finally justice has been done. It only took 23 years but by God every single one of those years must have been worth every second after today.

YNWA

Jelle1880

Everyone knew, but to see it black on white...

I sincerely hope jailtime is handed out.

Mitch Connor

Agent Smith wrote: »

I wonder if the sun will apologise now?

They already did, 8 years ago.

GavRedKing

59 could have been saved which makes for painful reading, leaving 37 dead which is still 37 fans too many, dead IMO.

The failings of the police, ambulance services have been documented and I've read some excellent reports/articles on Hillsborough thanks to Kess73, Amiable, Rarnes but to name a few on this forum.

No matter who you support or what sports you support, this kind of tradegy should have been avoided first of all and when it happened, should have been handled correctly and in the aftermath the innocent shouldnt have been vilified by certain sections of the media and society.

Liam O

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Is it not that The Sun did not deliberately report lies (which they have appologised for), as has been the accusation over the years; from what I have heard of the report there was a concerted effort from the people who would have been providing information to the press, to mislead the press and therefore the public. The Sun and its reporter(s) were lied to by the Police, close news agency's and a member of parliament, in order to paint a distasteful and disgusting picture of the Liverpool fans and take blame and accusing fingers away from the authorities.

Yes, The Sun reported disgusting things, but things they were told by multiple people they should have been able to report on with confidence - they are a victim of the cover up the police and authorities.

If you take the findings of the report, as horrific as they are, why do you not take it a step further and see that there is a very real possibility that The Sun were caught by the coverup as opposed to being part of it.

EDIT: Do the findings of the report say The Sun were part of the cover up?

Well honestly if I'm a journo and a load of eyewitness reports from police and parliament, even though it may be offensive to a lot of people it could be the makings of my career and I'd probably go through with it tbh.

Haven't heard anything about this Hillsborough Independent Panel, can someone enlighten me to the history of their appointment and investigation?

Very long overdue and a cover up like that should have been exposed years ago.

K-9

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Is it not that The Sun did not deliberately report lies (which they have appologised for), as has been the accusation over the years; from what I have heard of the report there was a concerted effort from the people who would have been providing information to the press, to mislead the press and therefore the public. The Sun and its reporter(s) were lied to by the Police, close news agency's and a member of parliament, in order to paint a distasteful and disgusting picture of the Liverpool fans and take blame and accusing fingers away from the authorities.

Yes, The Sun reported disgusting things, but things they were told by multiple people they should have been able to report on with confidence - they are a victim of the cover up the police and authorities.

While the Sun did report what was said to them, other papers printed similar leaks but nowhere near as shockingly bad as them, they just lapped it up.

ebbsy

Agent Smith wrote: »

I wonder if the sun will apologise now?

Doubt if they will, it would look like its been forced out of them.

I'd say some of the bizzies would be worried now though.

Mitch Connor

rarnes1 wrote: »

Yeah hilarious.

They boycotted a paper that printed complete lies about a tragedy.

Best to sit back and do nothing eh.

I'd just like to clarify that while i do not boycott the sun myself (nor do I buy it) I've no issue with Liverpool fans, the people of liverpool or anyone else boycotting the paper of the reporting of the Hillsborough - it is their right to display their disdain for the reporting.

I have tried to be clear in stating that I find what was said in the reports to be disgusting - my question is whether The Sun (or indeed just the reporter, but on behalf of The Sun) reported it in that way, whilst knowing it was lies and thus acted as part of the cover up, or whether they report information in good faith, however horrible that information was.

With the disdain the paper is held in, I do think it is an important element of their part of the story. Being taken in and caught by the concerted efforts of authorities to cover up their failings is very different from being knowingly complicit in such actions.

eigrod

Liam O wrote: »

Well honestly if I'm a journo and a load of eyewitness reports from police and parliament, even though it may be offensive to a lot of people it could be the makings of my career and I'd probably go through with it tbh.

Or, alternatively, and the position most informed people would agree with most :

Chris Bryant MP says "surely to God the role of the media in all this should have been to uncover the corruption and the lies" not to "perpetuate the corruption in the police".

Mitch Connor

ebbsy wrote: »

Doubt if they will, it would look like its been forced out of them.

I'd say some of the bizzies would be worried now though.

They apologised, without reservation, in July 2004.

Lawrence1895

It just strikes me, that it took such an awful long time to find the truth

Glico Man

quarryman wrote: »

I'm interested in this too.

There was huge pressure this time round to deliver a report that satisfied the victim's families and general public.

What makes this report different to the previous ones other than it attaches blame to the police rather than the fans? Genuine question.

No report has ever attached blame to the fans. The Taylor Report laid the blame squarely at the door of the police.

citytillidie

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Is it not that The Sun did not deliberately report lies (which they have appologised for), as has been the accusation over the years; from what I have heard of the report there was a concerted effort from the people who would have been providing information to the press, to mislead the press and therefore the public. The Sun and its reporter(s) were lied to by the Police, close news agency's and a member of parliament, in order to paint a distasteful and disgusting picture of the Liverpool fans and take blame and accusing fingers away from the authorities.

Yes, The Sun reported disgusting things, but things they were told by multiple people they should have been able to report on with confidence - they are a victim of the cover up the police and authorities.

If you take the findings of the report, as horrific as they are, why do you not take it a step further and see that there is a very real possibility that The Sun were caught by the coverup as opposed to being part of it.

EDIT: Do the findings of the report say The Sun were part of the cover up?

Its more Kelvin McKenzie still insists that he printed the truth

Paulw

Mitch Connor wrote: »

They apologised, without reservation, in July 2004.

I doubt many would consider what they published to be an acceptable apology. A full page headline claiming "The Truth" which then went on to tell lies should now be fully reversed with again the front page full of their apology.

The information now coming out is just shocking. Potentially 41 people could have been saved, if emergency services acted properly.

They tested all the bodies for alcohol, including the children. Why on earth would they test children for alcohol?? As has now been proven, the alcohol content in blood was what was considered normal at a sporting event held at that time of day.

I still have no understanding how anyone can try to blame those fans who died for the event that day. Many bodies and people have a lot to answer for - The FA, the police, the ambulance service, and then the press.

Finally the truth is being put out, with all the documentation to back it up.

The_Kew_Tour

citytillidie wrote: »

Its more Kelvin McKenzie still insists that he printed the truth

Now there is a man who should be locked up and key thrown away.

grames_bond

Xavi6 wrote: »

No need to libel anyone when the facts are there for all to be seen -

- 59 of the 96 could've survived

- 164 statements were deliberately amended

Fucking scum, every single one of them involved in the cover up :mad:

This!! One Million times this!!

Disgrace of the highest order! At least the families have some sort of closure!

YNWA!!

NabyLadistheman

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Now there is a man who should be locked up and key thrown away.

He wasn't there that day. Senior members of the police service & Ambulance service have to be held accountable. There is blood on their hands

citytillidie

Mitch Connor wrote: »

They already did, 8 years ago.

And was that not done just before they got exclusive extracts from Rooney's book so they could try and increase sales in Liverpool again

wonderfullife

GavRedKing wrote: »

59 could have been saved which makes for painful reading, leaving 37 dead which is still 37 fans too many, dead IMO.

The failings of the police, ambulance services have been documented and I've read some excellent reports/articles on Hillsborough thanks to Kess73, Amiable, Rarnes but to name a few on this forum.

No matter who you support or what sports you support, this kind of tradegy should have been avoided first of all and when it happened, should have been handled correctly and in the aftermath the innocent shouldnt have been vilified by certain sections of the media and society.

Just to be clear on this. The Panels Chief Medical expert just said in his interview that there were "evidence of 41 people still with functioning lung/heart output after 315pm (but it would be impossible for him to say how many of them could have survived)"

I.e. we can never say well the number would have been 55 dead not 96. It's not possible to gauge whether all or none of those 41 would have survived or not, just possible to say unequivocally they were not given the best chance of survival by multiple failings on the day.

Worth saying though - Fabrice Muama was in ventricular fibrilation and received amazing medical attention within minutes from physios, paramedics and the Cardiac Consultant from the crowd and survived. So it's more likely than not that SOME of those 41 would have survived. That, in itself, is appalling.

Leiva

super_furry

citytillidie wrote: »

And was that not done just before they got exclusive extracts from Rooney's book so they could try and increase sales in Liverpool again

Just after they printed his first column. The backlash from Everton and Liverpool fans was such that they were backed into a corner and made an 'apolgy' which was that in name only, the crux of which was 'get over it and move on.'

wonderfullife

Interesting to see the panel also note that a lot of ambulancemen, police and emergency services "tried to the best of their ability to save lives". Sometimes that gets lost in all this as the failings were so great but a great many people tried their utmost to help people. As seems usual the failings and cover-ups started high up the chain and left the ordinary, decent police and emergency services tarred with the one brush.

wonderfullife

Pro. F wrote: »

On to a new inquest and prosecutions from here hopefully. This has taken far too long.

As with Bloody Sunday i would urge people with strong feelings on the matter not to get their hopes up too high when it comes to criminal prosecutions. In civil cases there is a statute of limitations to get around; criminal liability (no time limit) is possible but it takes both legal and political will to get it done. Luckily, the law surrounding "double jeopardy" was ammended in England in 2003, otherwise it would be legally impossible to secure a re-trial for Duckenfield. Nevertheless the ONLY way Duckenfield goes to court again is if:

a) The Attorney General approves a retrial
b) The Court of Appeal agrees to quash the original acquittals.

I feel it is LIKELY the Attorney General will give the go-ahead but it will take years upon years for the Court of Appeal to quash the original acquittals.

I find it more likely than not that an apology and a generalised re-compensation in monetary terms will be the ultimate outcomes in this case and not multiple people locked up in jail for their abject failings.

ROCKMAN

Trevor Hicks
"The truth is out today ,justice starts tomorrow "

opr

23 years of being deliberately led down blind alleys, doors slammed while a coverup on a massive scale took place. The fight has been so long and hard had it not been for amazing people involved in the fight for justice the truth may never have been uncovered. To all those people involved I'd just like to say you're amazing and I hope today brings some peace to you and anyone else affected by that day. It makes you wonder how many injustices get covered up without people to fight for them in the way that has been needed to uncover the truth in this particular case.

Opr

GLaDOS

Shocked and sicked at the level of the covering up

mike65

wonderfullife wrote: »

Interesting to see the panel also note that a lot of ambulancemen, police and emergency services "tried to the best of their ability to save lives". Sometimes that gets lost in all this as the failings were so great but a great many people tried their utmost to help people. As seems usual the failings and cover-ups started high up the chain and left the ordinary, decent police and emergency services tarred with the one brush.

One officer on the ground talked on the ITV doc about how he wasn't called to give evidence due to the 3.15 cut off point. He had important testimony about those on the pitch but couldn't give it and you could see it was still preying on his mind.

wonderfullife

opr wrote: »

23 years of being deliberately led down blind alleys, doors slammed while a coverup on a massive scale took place. The fight has been so long and hard had it not been for amazing people involved in the fight for justice the truth may never have been uncovered. To all those people involved I'd just like to say you're amazing and I hope today brings some peace to you and anyone else affected by that day. It makes you wonder how many injustices get covered up without people to fight for them in the way that has been needed to uncover the truth in this particular case.

Opr

Many. And some closer to home don't get as much support from Irish people as Hillsborough does. Not a criticism just an observation of how football and football support can be such a strong thing. But most Irish LFC fans so passionate about Hillsborough are not as equally passionate about Bloody Sunday, The Dublin-Monaghan bombings and the Stardust nightclub tragedy (my dad had a lucky escape left the club early). All 3 of which are likely to have impacted upon our family or friends down the generations more so than Hillsborough.

Just wish we had as much uniform passion and support for all causes for justice domestically.

wonderfullife

McKenize just issued a profuse apology. I suppose it'll be rejected out of hand but at least he's finally done it.

Melion

wonderfullife wrote: »

McKenize just issued a profuse apology. I suppose it'll be rejected out of hand but at least he's finally done it.

23 years too late

wonderfullife

wonderfullife wrote: »

Many. And some closer to home don't get as much support from Irish people as Hillsborough does. Not a criticism just an observation of how football and football support can be such a strong thing. But most Irish LFC fans so passionate about Hillsborough are not as equally passionate about Bloody Sunday, The Dublin-Monaghan bombings and the Stardust nightclub tragedy (my dad had a lucky escape left the club early). All 3 of which are likely to have impacted upon our family or friends down the generations more so than Hillsborough.

Just wish we had as much uniform passion and support for all causes for justice domestically.

Few different factors, the initial exposure of Hillsborough being one. Dublin/Monaghan bombings along with several other things that happened down here still have families campaigning but the establisgment, the media, and probably the wider public, don't seem to want to deal with the can of worms that could be opened.

ROCKMAN

Could someone explain the "3.15 cut off " please...

_blank_

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Could someone explain the "3.15 cut off " please...

no evidence was used in relation to anything that happened after 3.15PM the day of the event.

K-9

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Could someone explain the "3.15 cut off " please...

The game was stopped at 3.06, so anything 9 minutes after that was never looked at.

wonderfullife

Des wrote: »

no evidence was used in relation to anything that happened after 3.15PM the day of the event.

and the reason for that was due to the Coroners verdict that by 315pm everybody would already have received the injuries of which they were to subsequently die from. NOT that they were already dead but had already suffered from the injuries, so ruled (wrongly) that beyond that time any evidence would not be relevant to any prosecution.

Our man in Havana

SlickRic wrote: »

basically, that was the cutoff time assigned for ambulances to get to the pitch.

even though bodies were lying around, people in agony, distressed etc, only 2 of the 40 ambulances that could've been available, were actually allowed get to people.

according to authorities, nothing much would happen, or did happen, after 3.15.

that's my understanding anyway; i'm sure there might be more detail to it...

This explains it all.

The coroner, Dr Stefan Popper, limited the main inquest to events up until 3:15 pm on the day of the disaster – just nine minutes after the match was halted and the crowd began to spill onto the pitch. Popper said this was because all of the victims were either dead, or brain dead, by 3:15 pm. This decision angered the families of the victims, many of whom felt this meant the inquest was not able to consider the response of the police and the other emergency services after that time.[51] The inquest returned a verdict of accidental death.