Hillsborough Cover-up revealed. MOD NOTE #1

Our man in Havana

The name is wrong. It should be "The Scum".

acquiescefc

Originally Posted by citytillidie
Its more Kelvin McKenzie still insists that he printed the truth

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Now there is a man who should be locked up and key thrown away.

Sun headlines were quotes from an Irvine Patnick television interview.
Assume youve seen it.

Not sticking up for him(KM) at all, but thats what that kind of rag did, didnt care who they picked on. but what was printed was a story. A completely irresponsible sensationalist story from SYP bullsh!t obviously.

Can i just say the criticism aimed at the ambulance service is ridiculous. The staff turned up to the NGH and Hallamshire at a moments notice. It was the fault of the SYP that

The SYP.. fair enough, complete cover up as everyone knows/knew. Duckenfield used to go in the pub in our village and everyone knew he was to blame. He was caught between a rock and a hard place, disaster outside the ground or get them inside. He chose the latter and we know what happened. The volume of fans outside the ground is still something im not happy about. There was still way too many there and this has been brushed under the carpet and most local residents share this view. The ones who suffered got there early.

Have to admit im shocked at the extent of the cover up, we knew they had but not on this scale. Football supporters were treated like animals then, the tragedy wasn't realised until way too late and there just wasnt an ability to cope. For the record ive been to many matches like this as a kid and ended up battered and bruised because of terraces but thats what happened. I remember being at Notts County not long after this and we had to be moved into a home pen because of crushing. Scared the crap out of me to this day.

Tragic its taken 23 years and those culpable are probably not in a position to be brought to any kind of justice sadly.

eagle eye

Delighted to hear the truth has been officially revealed.

Cover ups are not a nice thing at all and especially when there was such a great loss of lives. Sadly its something that was part of western society for a long, long time though and probably still goes on but not to such a great extent as it did in the past.

Hopefully the fans and people who have put many years into seeking the truth to be revealed can put all this behind them now and move on with their lives.

billybudd

Our man in Havana wrote: »

The name is wrong. It should be "The Scum".

Already is to alot of people, sadly not everyone though.

Really haventh a clue why anyone would buy it.

Leiva

acquiescefc wrote: »

Originally Posted by citytillidie
Its more Kelvin McKenzie still insists that he printed the truth




Sun headlines were quotes from an Irvine Patnick television interview.
Assume youve seen it.

Not sticking up for him(KM) at all, but thats what that kind of rag did, didnt care who they picked on. but what was printed was a story. A completely irresponsible sensationalist story from SYP bullsh!t obviously.

Can i just say the criticism aimed at the ambulance service is ridiculous. The staff turned up to the NGH and Hallamshire at a moments notice. It was the fault of the SYP that

The SYP.. fair enough, complete cover up as everyone knows/knew. Duckenfield used to go in the pub in our village and everyone knew he was to blame. He was caught between a rock and a hard place, disaster outside the ground or get them inside. He chose the latter and we know what happened. The volume of fans outside the ground is still something im not happy about. There was still way too many there and this has been brushed under the carpet and most local residents share this view. The ones who suffered got there early.

Have to admit im shocked at the extent of the cover up, we knew they had but not on this scale. Football supporters were treated like animals then, the tragedy wasn't realised until way too late and there just wasnt an ability to cope. For the record ive been to many matches like this as a kid and ended up battered and bruised because of terraces but thats what happened. I remember being at Notts County not long after this and we had to be moved into a home pen because of crushing. Scared the crap out of me to this day.

Tragic its taken 23 years and those culpable are probably not in a position to be brought to any kind of justice sadly.

The Taylor report dealt with the number of fans at the ground and those trying to get in....

Sheffield Wednesday FC’s own admission count system showed the terrace did not exceed its 10,100 capacity (for the Leppings Lane end). As part of their analysis, the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) counted the number of [Liverpool] supporters entering the ground, including those through the turnstiles, through Gate C and even those who climbed over the turnstiles. They gave three admission figures based on their analysis. Their first figure was 9,267, their ‘best estimate’ was 9,734, and their third figure was a ‘maximum estimate’ of 10,124. The HSE report stated it was unlikely that the terrace exceeded 10,124 and that total admissions were approximately equal to the designated capacity of 10,100 people. Taylor surmised there was no substance to the allegation that ticketless fans caused the Disaster,” The Hillsborough Football Disaster: Context And Consequences, page 17. Also watch video evidence of the fans walking through the turnstiles and walking into the tunnel.

The Taylor Report exonerated the Liverpool fans of any culpability. “The main reason for the disaster was the failure of police control,” The Interim Taylor Report, paragraph 278.

I was surprised also to see the emergency services singled out alongside the police but it seems that this report has gone beyond anybodys expectations and uncovered some aspects that maybe no one could see until the official papers got seen.
I reckon it all boils down to the attempted cover up afterwards and not the tried actions of the moments of the disaster uncovering.

cyrusdvirus

acquiescefc wrote: »

Can i just say the criticism aimed at the ambulance service is ridiculous.

i know it is only SOME of those who were there that day, but there is evidence that their After Incident Reports were changed as well, to protect SYP.

Welease

Videos from St. Georges Vigil are now online..

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/the-hillsborough-vigil-in-videos

K-9

acquiescefc wrote: »

Sun headlines were quotes from an Irvine Patnick television interview.
Assume youve seen it.

Not sticking up for him(KM) at all, but thats what that kind of rag did, didnt care who they picked on. but what was printed was a story. A completely irresponsible sensationalist story from SYP bullsh!t obviously.

Can we stop with this stuff, other papers ran with the story including a Liverpool local paper, none went the headlines that they did. A bit more on it:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2004/jul/07/pressandpublishing.football1

The volume of fans outside the ground is still something im not happy about. There was still way too many there and this has been brushed under the carpet and most local residents share this view.

Yet they managed the crowd in the previous years match. The difference was a clearly inexperienced and incompetent Chief Super.

Tragic its taken 23 years and those culpable are probably not in a position to be brought to any kind of justice sadly.[/QUOTE]

citytillidie

After today just going to leave this up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIa3u7NfPkM

monkey9

Will I Amnt

Just got sent this,not sure of its authenticity.

monkey9

Yeah, that one real is alright!

K-9

Tabloids in the race to get the best headline.

If Hillsborough happened today they'd all be in the race to get the best scoop, that's all that matters to them.

monkey9

Meanwhile....in the Express......

Whippersnapper

Not a mention from The Telegraph. Very, very strange.

efb

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp6BmruYhzA

citytillidie

Celtic FC statement

CELTIC Football Club would like to send its support to the city of Liverpool, Liverpool Football Club and, most importantly, to the families of the 96 people who died in the Hillsborough disaster on April 15, 1989.

Celtic Chief Executive Peter Lawwell said: “There has always been a strong bond between Celtic and Liverpool FC, and between supporters of both clubs, and the Celtic family has long supported the campaign for Justice for the 96.

“On this important day, when previously unseen official documents have been released for the first time, the hope is that it will bring justice, and the truth about what happened at Hillsborough, a step closer for all those involved.

“As always, our thoughts and prayers remain with the families of those who lost loved ones on that tragic day when 96 people went to a football match and did not return home.

http://www.celticfc.net/newsstory?item=3071

citytillidie

and one more person the mayor of London owes the families an apology

super_furry

As self-serving as that Sun front page may be, I never thought I'd see it in my lifetime.

Skid

News International closed 'The News of The World' because of the disgraceful behaviour of their Editors and 'journalists'.

If they were consistent they would now close down The Sun. No apology will ever make up for their disgusting behaviour in 1989.

Nuri Sahin

citytillidie wrote: »

Celtic FC statement

CELTIC Football Club would like to send its support to the city of Liverpool, Liverpool Football Club and, most importantly, to the families of the 96 people who died in the Hillsborough disaster on April 15, 1989.

Celtic Chief Executive Peter Lawwell said: “There has always been a strong bond between Celtic and Liverpool FC, and between supporters of both clubs, and the Celtic family has long supported the campaign for Justice for the 96.

“On this important day, when previously unseen official documents have been released for the first time, the hope is that it will bring justice, and the truth about what happened at Hillsborough, a step closer for all those involved.

“As always, our thoughts and prayers remain with the families of those who lost loved ones on that tragic day when 96 people went to a football match and did not return home.

http://www.celticfc.net/newsstory?item=3071

To add to the above, from the other side..

Message Of Support

FOLLOWING today’s Independent Panel Report Rangers Football Club would like to send its support to the families who lost loved ones and everyone affected by the Hillsborough Disaster on April 15, 1989.

Rangers Chief Executive Charles Green said: “On this significant day our thoughts are with the families of the 96 people who lost their lives, the survivors and the Liverpool supporters.

“It is completely unimaginable that 96 people could attend a football match and never return home and I know the Rangers family feel the same following the loss of 66 Rangers supporters who lost their lives in the 1971 Ibrox Disaster.

“Rangers and Liverpool fans have a strong bond as they have united to commemorate the tragedies that have sadly marked the history of both clubs.

"We hope the independent report released today will help to bring some level of comfort now the truth about what happened that terrible day 23 years ago is known.”

desaparecidos

Interesting perspectives from the locals in the comments section here.

Seems the fans outside the grounds weren't blameless.

Speak Now

desaparecidos wrote: »

Interesting perspectives from the locals in the comments section here.

Seems the fans outside the grounds weren't blameless.

Found today,s report much more interesting than some anonymous posters on the star website. Then again the truth won't be what some people want to hear and its suits them to live in ignorance rather than admit they got it wrong for the last 23 years.

SantryRed

Tbh,

I'm sure there was people outside the ground trying to get in with no tickets, but the fact is if the game was properly policed these people would have been turned away instead of letting them in and also people would have been sent to the correct pens.

mike65

citytillidie wrote: »

and one more person the mayor of London owes the families an apology

Just a point of fact - that editorial was written by Simon Heffer, Boris Johnson was the editor of the Spectator at the time and was subsequently invited by Liverpool supporting Tory leader Michael Howard to go on a penance trip to Liverpool. He should have spiked the piece of course but Heffer is a much worthier person to walk the plank.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/3749548.stm

K-9

What a day for the families involved, so many people wish them well and hope for the best.

Internet trolls are doing their best all day and failing. What a great day.

Rangers and Celtic fans uniting.

K-9

Btw, nobody claimed the fans behaved like saints!

Anybody who has been to a match, even in these sanitised times would know what happens, all seater stadiums and all, which Hillsborough brought in.
T

Dub13

RTE were onto me this afternoon looking for someone from Irishkop to do an interview.Here is the bit they did on the 6:01 news.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHKtINqTbrs

amiable

Skid wrote: »

News International closed 'The News of The World' because of the disgraceful behaviour of their Editors and 'journalists'.

If they were consistent they would now close down The Sun. No apology will ever make up for their disgusting behaviour in 1989.

They closed The News of The World but replaced it within a few weeks so I wouldn't hold my breath.
I feel sorry for the people in the low end jobs for those rags.

mike65

The pass the parcel blame game continues afoot - MacKenzie says he took the news agency report in good faith and now the agency says it took the words of the police on good faith

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/sep/12/hillsborough-news-agency-reported-faithfully-sun

Will I Amnt

K-9 wrote: »

Rangers and Celtic fans uniting.

Even stranger

Gmol

Some nice posts on utd,city and other forums hopefully there will be an end to the nasty chants on all sides. So pleased for the families on a bitter sweet day for them. Hopefully the families and survivors will be comforted by the verdict YNWA.

K-9

cambo2008 wrote: »

Even stranger

Well, ..............................Im lost for words.

Time people ignored trolls and concentrated on the mostly genuine fans. Enjoy the banter, ignore the hate mongers.

opr

mike65 wrote: »

The pass the parcel blame game continues afoot - MacKenzie says he took the news agency report in good faith and now the agency says it took the words of the police on good faith

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/sep/12/hillsborough-news-agency-reported-faithfully-sun

Meant to post this earlier.

Three days after the tragedy, the Mirror had three reporters in Liverpool - the vastly experienced Syd Young (now retired), plus Christian Gysin (now with the Daily Mail) and Hay (now running a media consultancy in Scotland).

The London newsdesk called to alert them to copy that had been filed by Whites news agency in Sheffield that afternoon (here's a pdf copy of that). It made serious allegations against the Liverpool fans, claiming they had been drunk, had pick-pocketed victims and had urinated on policemen.

The trio were told by the newsdesk briefer that he had previously called the paper's two reporters in Sheffield - the late Ted Oliver and Frank Thorne (now freelancing in Australia) - with the same information. They had looked into it and rejected it as untrue.

They told the desk they could not stand up the allegations so they would not be filing. Oliver actually said that if such a story appeared under his byline he would resign.

So Young, Gysin and Hay made calls too and couldn't find any supporting evidence for the allegations. Indeed, all the indications they were getting suggested "the Yorkshire cops were trying to divert attention away from their own failings."

Hay told me: "We discussed it and, having agreed that we could not verify the claims, passed on [to the desk] our suspicions about the Yorkshire police spin."

He was full of praise for the response of the night news editor, the now-retired Mark Dowdney. Hay said: "Despite the pressures on him and the knowledge that others might run with the story, he sided with his men in the field and spiked the story."

Well, he didn't actually spike it. But the Mirror's extreme scepticism about the claims - properly reflecting the views of their five reporters in Sheffield and Liverpool - is clear from the angle the paper took, exemplified by the headline, "Fury as police claim victims were robbed." Very different, in other words, to "The truth".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade

Opr

Whippersnapper

Dub13 wrote: »

RTE were onto me this afternoon looking for someone from Irishkop to do an interview.Here is the bit they did on the 6:01 news.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHKtINqTbrs

Caught that alright. Was wondering who you were because you spoke so well. Fair play.

K-9

mike65 wrote: »

Just a point of fact - that editorial was written by Simon Heffer, Boris Johnson was the editor of the Spectator at the time and was subsequently invited by Liverpool supporting Tory leader Michael Howard to go on a penance trip to Liverpool. He should have spiked the piece of course but Heffer is a much worthier person to walk the plank.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/3749548.stm

Ah poor Boris, he has a lot of mistakes to learn from, I think he does learn, but he still has loads of mistakes to make, endless mistakes to make.

It would be like the Duke of Edinburgh as PM.

mike65

K-9 wrote: »

Ah poor Boris, he has a lot of mistakes to learn from, I think he does learn, but he still has loads of mistakes to make, endless mistakes to make.

It would be like the Duke of Edinburgh as PM.

After Bertie Ahern we know what that would be like!

K-9

opr wrote: »

Meant to post this earlier.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade

Opr

Yep, other papers did report it, I think the Daily Post did too, but not with the vigour the S*n did.

I don't care anymore about the lies, the families have finally been vindicated.

Squabbles about papers are just petty now.

The truth has finally been outed and petty squabbles are insignificant, petty rivals seen as the ignoramus's they are.

The truth has finally outed.

May they finally rest in peace.

wonderfullife

Boris is great value he's some boy!! But yeah he's quite fond of talking before engaging his brain! Would have been funny if they left him hanging up there on the wire for a while during the olympics

Nuri Sahin

cambo2008 wrote: »

Even stranger

Was having a read of it earlier when a Man U supporting friend of mine tweeted the thread to me. Was a tad cautious before viewing it (as I've never had any reason to view Redcafe before), but it the end, it made for quite pleasant reading.

For those who want to check it out - http://www.redcafe.net/f7/e-petition-release-govt-hillsborough-files-337931/index14.html

klose

Do any shops/newsagents in liverpool actually sell the sun? I know there's a boycott of it but is it al over the city?

monkey9

SantryRed wrote: »

Tbh,

I'm sure there was people outside the ground trying to get in with no tickets, but the fact is if the game was properly policed these people would have been turned away instead of letting them in and also people would have been sent to the correct pens.

Ah look, there's no doubt there were fans there who turned up without tickets and there may well have been some who even had a couple of pints on them. Who here wouldn't do the same at certain points.

But that was not the cause. You're spot on. It was in no way policed correctly. It was a shambles. (The rest of this is not directed at you, SantryRed, it's a general point)

There was a crush building up at half two so that puts to bed the fans turning up late as an excuse and even then, there was roadworks going on that weekend on the motorway which is why a lot turned up around the same time so the police should have been prepared for that.

But if a few policemen on horses is enough to control ten thousand fans going into that end, then there's your first failure. The crush begins so Duckenfield orders the exit gate to be opened and the Liverpool fans rush through it (he later claimed they drunkenly forced the gate down).

The first thing they see is the tunnel right in front of them that leads to the pen which is already packed and can take no more. There are no police or stewards to guide the crowds left or right to the emptier pens. Everyone naturally goes to the first tunnel they see. The bottleneck effect ensues. Nobody can move forward, nobody can move back. They are trapped. They are crushed. Some of them die.

Imagine somebody you know, whether be it a friend or family who just happened to get caught up in that simply because they went to support their team in a cup semi final coming home in a coffin.

Now imagine the police having that friend or family whilst lying in the morgue in the stadium being examined for blood alcohol levels. A ten year old child (Steven Gerrard's cousin) was examined for alcohol levels.

Then the police checked the computer national system to see if any of the dead (still warm in the morgue) had any criminal records so that they could use that against them.

This is not football anymore. This is one of the biggest cover ups ever and i have no doubt this extends to Thatcher who was told in August 1989 about the 'inadequacies' of the South Yorkshire Police.

This really isn't far off the Birmingham Six or Gilford Four. The police in all scenarious needed someone to blame and it wasn't going to be them!!

Whippersnapper

whippedcream wrote: »

Do any shops/newsagents in liverpool actually sell the sun? I know there's a boycott of it but is it al over the city?

I've seen it there. In a shop close to Anfield, in fact.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Whippersnapper wrote: »

I've seen it there. In a shop close to Anfield, in fact.

Strange, I am a regular visitor to Anfield and I have never seen it for sale in any shops around there. I have seen a lot of shops with the stickers on the window saying don't buy the sun though.

amiable

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Strange, I am a regular visitor to Anfield and I have never seen it for sale in any shops around there. I have seen a lot of shops with the stickers on the window saying don't buy the sun though.

I'm going there for years too and have never seen it for sale

wonderfullife

K-9 wrote: »

Yep, other papers did report it, I think the Daily Post did too, but not with the vigour the S*n did.

I don't care anymore about the lies, the families have finally been vindicated.

Squabbles about papers are just petty now.

The truth has finally been outed and petty squabbles are insignificant, petty rivals seen as the ignoramus's they are.

The truth has finally outed.

May they finally rest in peace.

The feeling i had today was more "May they finally live in peace". 23 years is a long time for those families to have to live with the lies and torment. Also worth remembering any family members who have died in the intervening years without ever seeing justice.

K-9

wonderfullife wrote: »

The feeling i had today was more "May they finally live in peace". 23 years is a long time for those families to have to live with the lies and torment. Also worth remembering any family members who have died in the intervening years without ever seeing justice.

Nah, I think while the tabloids were running around trying to get the best headline to capture the living audience and readership figure

The Liverpool Echoe put up, THEY REST IN TRUTH. End of. No further points of discussion needed.

Whippersnapper

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Strange, I am a regular visitor to Anfield and I have never seen it for sale in any shops around there. I have seen a lot of shops with the stickers on the window saying don't buy the sun though.

It was 2007 I think when I saw it. It was very close to Anfield and I was very shocked to see it for sale. I thought you wouldn't have a hope of seeing it in that area especially.

billybudd

Whippersnapper wrote: »

It was 2007 I think when I saw it. It was very close to Anfield and I was very shocked to see it for sale. I thought you wouldn't have a hope of seeing it in that area especially.

Ive seen it alot around liverpool and id go over quite a bit, never actually seen anyone read it which is the strange bit for me as in why sell it in the first place?

kryogen

Don't really think you can call anything good when it comes to Hillsborough, but today was certainly a good day in relation to it.

For the dead it really doesn't make a difference I guess, but for the families and friends of anybody lost that day it is a vindication, hopefully they can now move on properly that the truth is out.