Sinn Féin's attitude toward Real IRA arrests.

Laminations

Sand wrote: »

I don't follow Provo threads these days as the contents are usually just irrelevant trench warfare between people who'd argue over the exact air temperature in a room because some are Catholic and others are Protestant, and whatabout....

I agree. The problem is if you don't engage in these threads you give them an open forum to spread emotive republican propaganda like 'Price is a victim of British internment' which is completely untrue. Price has been subject to standard recall of her release license just like what happens to thousands in Britain every year. Also it needs to be pointed out, just like you've done, that viewpoints like Price's and RIRAs are wholly unacceptable, especially now in a time of a fully political and democratic solution to partition.

Fenian Army

Laminations wrote: »

I agree. The problem is if you don't engage in these threads you give them an open forum to spread emotive republican propaganda like 'Price is a victim of British internment' which is completely untrue. Price has been subject to standard recall of her release license just like what happens to thousands in Britain every year. Also it needs to be pointed out, just like you've done, that viewpoints like Price's and RIRAs are wholly unacceptable, especially now in a time of a fully political and democratic solution to partition.

Yet again you wont address the fact that her release had no such terms, even if she was on license, otherwise she would have been returned to jail DECADES ago! If she was on license (we can all acknowledge that she thought she wasn't even if we differ on whether we think she was on license or not) she didn't know of any terms as she wasnt told of any. How is that fair?

As it stands she committed no crime, she held a piece of paper, the contents of which she was unaware of.

Martin Corey deserves more than your fob off - he is in jail, had his license revoked and hasnt been told why. This means it is impossible for him to challenge his imprisonment. A judge said this was in breach of his human rights, but he was overruled by an unelected overlord, the secretary of state. And so in jail he remains.

(Although I reckon you will accept whatever Brit justification to keep him jailed)

And I had hoped I wouldnt need to point out the obvious, but your much heralded paper is about England and Wales.

Fenian Army

Fenian Army wrote: »

Yet again you wont address the fact that her release had no such terms, even if she was on license, otherwise she would have been returned to jail DECADES ago! If she was on license (we can all acknowledge that she thought she wasn't even if we differ on whether we think she was on license or not) she didn't know of any terms as she wasnt told of any. How is that fair?

As it stands she committed no crime, she held a piece of paper, the contents of which she was unaware of.

Martin Corey deserves more than your fob off - he is in jail, had his license revoked and hasnt been told why. This means it is impossible for him to challenge his imprisonment. A judge said this was in breach of his human rights, but he was overruled by an unelected overlord, the secretary of state. And so in jail he remains.

(Although I reckon you will accept whatever Brit justification to keep him jailed)

And I had hoped I wouldnt need to point out the obvious, but your much heralded paper is about England and Wales.

So, you agree with Marian here then?

"The GAA, Catholic Church and constitutional nationalism will be unable to protect those who turn traitor. They are as liable for execution as anyone else regardless of their religion, cultural background or motivation."

Fenian Army

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

So, you agree with Marian here then?

"The GAA, Catholic Church and constitutional nationalism will be unable to protect those who turn traitor. They are as liable for execution as anyone else regardless of their religion, cultural background or motivation."

Firstly, she didn't say that.

And no, I obviously dont agree with the RIRA, neither do the majority of those calling for her release, FF, SF, ULA, SP etc etc

Fenian Army

Fenian Army wrote: »

Firstly, she didn't say that.

And no, I obviously dont agree with the RIRA, neither do the majority of those calling for her release, FF, SF, ULA, SP etc etc

I never said that she said it, she was standing beside a masked man who read it out. Or are you going to argue that she got lost looking for her car and accidentally ended up there? She believes in it, and obviously believed that by not directly reading the statement herself that she would "outsmart" the authorities...guess that one didn't work out too well.

So, you don't agree with her violent position, but can't wait for her to be back out on the streets with this hate-filled propaganda?

Sounds like you support her to me, much like SF. Just like Marian getting the masked man to read the statement, you think that the wool is going to be pulled over our eyes by claiming you aren't one and the same. And again, like Marian, you are wrong.

Fenian Army

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I never said that she said it, she was standing beside a masked man who read it out. Or are you going to argue that she got lost looking for her car and accidentally ended up there? She believes in it, and obviously believed that by not directly reading the statement herself that she would "outsmart" the authorities...guess that one didn't work out too well.

So, you don't agree with her violent position, but can't wait for her to be back out on the streets with this hate-filled propaganda?

Sounds like you support her to me, much like SF. Just like Marian getting the masked man to read the statement, you think that the wool is going to be pulled over our eyes by claiming you aren't one and the same. And again, like Marian, you are wrong.

what rubbish... are you actually saying that all the people calling for her release, from all walks of life, support the RIRA?

and can you not see that because of her imprisonment her views are getting aired more and that her imprisonment in itself is far better propaganda than any speech she could ever give/ be at?

Fenian Army

Fenian Army wrote: »

what rubbish... are you actually saying that all the people calling for her release, from all walks of life, support the RIRA?

and can you not see that because of her imprisonment her views are getting aired more and that her imprisonment in itself is far better propaganda than any speech she could ever give/ be at?

Good! Let the people hear her views and then they can see from whom she draws support and make the decision themselves.

Let the people see that she's calling for the execution of GAA members, Catholic Church goers, and people who enjoy having a constitution! And that SF fully condone this.

Fenian Army

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Good! Let the people hear her views and then they can see from whom she draws support and make the decision themselves.

Let the people see that she's calling for the execution of GAA members, Catholic Church goers, and people who enjoy having a constitution! And that SF fully condone this.

Thats not what she called for --- and SF don't condone that or indeed what the RIRA man actually said.

Why single out SF?

Dublin City Council almost unanimously passed a motion calling for her release - one person voted against it.

Lots of parties have called for her release. Not just SF.

The fact that you don't ridiculously accuse them of condoning "the execution of GAA members, Catholic Church goers, and people who enjoy having a constitution!" tells us a lot.

This hyperbolic nonsense reveals that you don't know what on earth you are on about, and that you are simply looing for an excuse to bash SF.

Fenian Army

Fenian Army wrote: »

Thats not what she called for --- and SF don't condone that or indeed what the RIRA man actually said.

Why single out SF?

Dublin City Council almost unanimously passed a motion calling for her release - one person voted against it.

Lots of parties have called for her release. Not just SF.

The fact that you don't ridiculously accuse them of condoning "the execution of GAA members, Catholic Church goers, and people who enjoy having a constitution!" tells us a lot.

This hyperbolic nonsense reveals that you don't know what on earth you are on about, and that you are simply looing for an excuse to bash SF.

From what I can find, it's all Eirigi, SF, and other assorted dirtbags who are calling for her release. Can you point me to the press releases etc of any other party that you claim, FF etc, are supporting her relief.

The Dublin City Council motion means nothing. It was put forward by SF and sponsored by the aforementioned bags of dirt.

I also see that a whopping 40 people turned up to a demonstration for her in Dublin - i.e. she has no support. In fact, I'm sure more people could have been mobilized to march so that she stays in jail!

This country has moved on. Why can't you, or Marian for that matter?

Laminations

Other people are calling for her release probably because it's been put to them dishonestly that she's been a victim of internment.Tthat's why I said originally that support is misguided.

As for her blatant breach of license, has she since apologised for the presence at the rally? Has she distanced herself from the remarks that she claims she didn't know were on the paper? Has she condemned the issuing of death threats to Irish and British citizens?

Price being ignorant of the terms of license is no excuse. All releases from indeterminate sentences which include life sentences for murder are on condition of license. It was in the papers at the time that she was released on license. As to why she wasn't arrested years ago (not that thats a defence) maybe her actions weren't such a blatant breach of license as her recent attendance at this rally where death threats were read from the paper she held?

Happyman42

Taking humanitarian responsibility, the lesson the British never learn. They nurtured the IRA by their actions and they will do the same again. Depressing.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2012/0717/1224320253375.html

Sir, – We wish to draw your attention to the continued detention of Marian Price, which we feel constitutes an alarming breach of human and civil rights.
Ms Price had previously served a long jail sentence in England and in the North and was released and pardoned in 1980 due to ill-health resulting from force-feeding over many months in 1973 and 1974.
Ms Price was arrested in May 2011 on the basis of charges, which have since been dismissed. At the time she was granted bail for those charges and has also been granted bail on subsequent charges brought against her, yet she remains imprisoned by order of Owen Paterson, British Secretary of State, who claimed to revoke her licence.
Ms Price’s health and welfare are at the forefront of this campaign and she has been declared too ill to attend court after spending more than a year in isolation. Ms Price is the victim of psychological torture and internment without trial, and as a result of this her mental health and physical health has deteriorated rapidly. Given concerns about her very poor health, we are calling for her immediate release based on humanitarian grounds. – Yours, etc,
Msgr RAYMOND MURRAY, Human Rights Activist; Fr PETER MCVERRY SJ, Centre for Faith and Justice; Fr SEÁN MCMANUS, President of the Irish National Caucus, US; MARGARETTA D’ARCY, Aosdána/Women In Media Entertainment; ÉAMON Ó CUÍV TD; MAUREEN O’SULLIVAN TD; THOMAS PRINGLE TD; JOAN COLLINS TD; RICHARD BOYD BARRETT TD; JOHN BROWNE TD; GERRY ADAMS TD; MARTIN FERRIS TD; DESSIE ELLIS TD; SÉAN CROWE TD; MICHAEL COLREAVY TD; JONATHAN O’BRIEN TD; MARY LOU MCDONALD TD; PEARSE DOHERTY TD; SANDRA McLELLAN TD; BRIAN STANLEY TD; PADRAIG MACLOCHLAINN TD; AENGUS O’SNODAIGH TD; CAOIMHGHÍN Ó CAOLÁIN TD; PEADAR TOIBÍN TD; JOE HIGGINS TD; CLARE DALY TD; Councillors: LOUISE MINIHAN; MANNIX FLYNN; Cllr CHRISTY BURKE; CIERAN PERRY; MELISA HALPIN; BRID SMITH; HUGH LEWIS; NIALL RING; ANNA QUIGLEY; PAT DUNNE; VINCENT JACKSON; DAMIEN O’FARRELL; Senators: LABHRÁS Ó MURCHÚ; JIM WALSH; KATHRYN REILLY; DAVID CULLINANE; TREVOR O’CLOCHARTAIGH; DARRAGH O’BRIEN; BRIAN Ó DOMHNAILL; and Dr FÉILIM Ó hADHMAILL, School of Applied Social Studies, UCC; Dr CIARÁN DAWSON, Centre for Oral Irish, UCC; Dr ÓRLA O’DONOVAN, School of Applied Social Studies, UCC Dr KIERAN ALLEN, School of Sociology, UCD,

Laminations

Happyman42 wrote: »

Taking humanitarian responsibility, the lesson the British never learn. They nurtured the IRA by their actions and they will do the same again. Depressing.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2012/0717/1224320253375.html

The following is the text of the speech made by éirígí’s Louise Minihan, when proposing the motion in Dublin City Council:

“As we sit in the comfort of this chamber tonight, a sick frail woman is in hospital, under arrest after enduring solitary confinement for over a year, with 9 months of it spent in an all male prison.

“This woman has committed no crime and has been convicted of no charge. Marian Price is in gaol on the whim of a British Secretary of state, and is being interned without trial.

“Marian Price is a 58-year-old mother. The question here is not whether you agree with Marian’s political beliefs or with the aims of the organisation she is a member of. The question is will you stand up against human rights abuses committed in this country by the British Government.

“Marian’s case is a gross miscarriage of justice and as severe a violation of a person’s human rights that has ever been discussed by this council.

“Fourteen months ago Marian was arrested for her part in a 1916 commemoration in Derry. Marian appeared before a court and was released on bail. However the British secretary of state disagreed with this decision and stepped in and had her arrested and committed to prison. Since then all charges against Marian has been dropped.

“For the next 9 months Marian was held in complete isolation on a wing in an all male prison. This we must remember was without crime or trial.

“Due to the deterioration of Marian’s health, she was transferred to a so called medical facility at Hydebank Prison were she continued to be held in complete isolation, unable to get the proper medical care she needed.

“Expert medical opinion has recommended her immediate release, along with a number of prominent civil and human rights campaigners such as Monsignor Raymond Murray, who is running the Free Marian Price Campaign, Bernadette McAliskey and Eamonn McCann, TDs, trade unionists and academics including Maureen O Sullivan, Thomas Pringle, Éamon Ó Cuív, Frank Keoghan, and actress Margaretta D’Arcy, Juan Mendez, UN Special Rapporteur on Torture, the SDLP and many, many more.

“As I said, this case is not about whether you agree with Marian or not. It is about, whether you are willing to stand up against human rights abuses. Internment under any other name is still internment. Internment was wrong in the 70s and it is still wrong today.

“This council has a great record for standing up for people’s civil and human rights around the world. This motion allows us to send a clear message on behalf of the people of Dublin that human rights abuses will not be tolerated anywhere on this island, and that the elected representatives of the people of Dublin will stand up against any infringement of the civil and human rights of Irish Citizens.

“I am asking councillors to support this motion in calling for the release of Marian Price on humanitarian grounds.”

I've bolded the emotive one-sided points (frail and sick mother) and the many untruths littered throughout the speech which preceded the motion in DCC. Where was the rights of the victims to speak? where was the rights to portray her in the full light, yes as a mother but also as an unapologetic terrorist who was party to issuing death threats?

Internment is mentioned a number of times which is incorrect and emotive. Also Louise misrepresents the necessity for a crime to be committed in order for standard recall to take place. There is no relevance that charges were dropped or that trials were not undertaken; it shows a complete lack of understanding of the release license and recall system. Louise is also at pains to try and avoid people thinking about what Marian did to end up in prison, to avoid people questioning Marian's beliefs. There is no mention or call for discussion of the behaviour at the RIRA rally or of Marian's attitude towards Irish and British citizens - which is odd considering it is this bloodyminded attitude that found her back in prison in breach of license. The fact that part of DCCs motion was calling for an explanation for her incarceration shows me that they haven't actually researched the case themselves.

They were misled. And when something is framed as a 'humanitarian' issue very few people will vote against it

As a student of UCD for one more year, I am going to make sure that Dr Kieran Allen is held to account for his extremist and violent views.

Happyman42

Laminations wrote: »

I've bolded the emotive one-sided points (frail and sick mother) and the many untruths littered throughout the speech which preceded the motion in DCC. Where was the rights of the victims to speak? where was the rights to portray her in the full light, yes as a mother but also as an unapologetic terrorist who was party to issuing death threats?

Internment is mentioned a number of times which is incorrect and emotive. Also Louise misrepresents the necessity for a crime to be committed in order for standard recall to take place. There is no relevance that charges were dropped or that trials were not undertaken; it shows a complete lack of understanding of the release license and recall system. Louise is also at pains to try and avoid people thinking about what Marian did to end up in prison, to avoid people questioning Marian's beliefs. There is no mention or call for discussion of the behaviour at the RIRA rally or of Marian's attitude towards Irish and British citizens - which is odd considering it is this bloodyminded attitude that found her back in prison in breach of license. The fact that part of DCCs motion was calling for an explanation for her incarceration shows me that they haven't actually researched the case themselves.

They were misled. And when something is framed as a 'humanitarian' issue very few people will vote against it

I quote a letter from a cross section of Irish public figures and you counter with a statement from Eirigi??????

Cross section?! Its nearly entirely signed by sf with a few swp members.

Laminations

Happyman42 wrote: »

I quote a letter from a cross section of Irish public figures and you counter with a statement from Eirigi??????

I'm suggesting that this 'cross section' were misled just like DCC. Support is misguided. That letter also misrepresents the case and necessity for some charge to be brought in order for her to end up in prison, but it is more focused on her ill health.

Price got a reprieve in the 1980s due to a health and is looking for same again. I'd be happy to see her released, ankle tagged and put under house arrest while she recovers. She should also be subject to counselling to address her mental health issues and her bloody minded vengeance

Happyman42

Laminations wrote: »

I'm suggesting that this 'cross section' were misled just like DCC. Support is misguided.

I'm suggesting the British should have more sense than to allow situations like this to occur and through bloodyminded actions like this they foster the growth of resentment.
The signatories of this letter are not standing on high moral ground but have a real concern that actions like this are precisely what led to the lid coming off before?
If this woman dies in prison under these circumstances the membership of RIRA will double or prehaps treble.

Happyman42

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Cross section?! Its nearly entirely signed by sf with a few swp members.

Your comments about holding Allen to 'account' and your one above clearly indicate that you favour the suppression of any political thought other than your own. Why shouldn't SF and the SWP sign this letter with a lot of others? They have a democratic mandate just like FF, FG and Labour.
Dispute it's contents by all means.
Despite people like you, we still live in a democracy where political thought is not suppressed... allegedly.:rolleyes:

Laminations

Happyman42 wrote: »

I'm suggesting the British should have more sense than to allow situations like this to occur and through bloodyminded actions like this they foster the growth of resentment.
The signatories of this letter are not standing on high moral ground but have a real concern that actions like this are precisely what led to the lid coming off before?
If this woman dies in prison under these circumstances the membership of RIRA will double or prehaps treble.

So the terms of release licenses and standard recall should apply to everyone, except people who have a bloody minded terrorist group to enact revenge if they are treated the same way as everyone else? The fight for equality of treatment under the law is important, when that treatment starts to negatively impact you then you shouldn't begin a fight for inequality of the system and specialist treatment.

I really hope we don't start governing based on your threats of 'do this, or else'

Laminations

Happyman42 wrote: »

Your comments about holding Allen to 'account' and your one above clearly indicate that you favour the suppression of any political thought other than your own. Why shouldn't SF and the SWP sign this letter with a lot of others? They have a democratic mandate just like FF, FG and Labour.
Dispute it's contents by all means.
Despite people like you, we still live in a democracy where political thought is not suppressed... allegedly.:rolleyes:

But certain 'political' actions are, and rightly so. Like paramilitary displays and the issuing of death threats. Being party to those things is the type of behaviour that could see your release license being revoked...imagine that!

Happyman42

Laminations wrote: »

So the terms of release licenses and standard recall should apply to everyone, except people who have a bloody minded terrorist group to enact revenge if they are treated the same way as everyone else? The fight for equality of treatment under the law is important, when that treatment starts to negatively impact you then you shouldn't begin a fight for inequality of the system and specialist treatment.

I really hope we don't start governing based on your threats of 'do this, or else'

All you need to do is look at this in a balanced way, and see how hypcritical the British 'ACTUALLY' are in dealing with issues affecting this island.
How many members of Orange bands are in prison for intimidation, provocation and hatemongering?
To do that will destabilise the situation we are told, minister after minister will engage in placatory rethoric and call for calm, and lamely criticise. Yet here is a situation that has the potential to pointlessly enflame and increase resentment and we can't even get clarity on her medical condition and the documents pertaining to her internment?

Laminations

Happyman42 wrote: »

All you need to do is look at this in a balanced way, and see how hypcritical the British 'ACTUALLY' are in dealing with issues affecting this island.
How many members of Orange bands are in prison for intimidation, provocation and hatemongering?
To do that will destabilise the situation we are told, minister after minister will engage in placatory rethoric and call for calm, and lamely criticise. Yet here is a situation that has the potential to pointlessly enflame and increase resentment and we can't even get clarity on her medical condition and the documents pertaining to her internment?

Except one of the most famous ulster loyalists 'Mad dog' Johnny Adair was imprisoned in 2003 after his license was revoked. Michael Stone also had his license revoked. And in 2009 Torrens Knight hashish license suspended and was jailed.

This situation will inflame and increase resentment as long as you dishonestly refer to it as internment. If you portrayed Prices case as one of thousands who have their license revoked rather than some unique example of British oppression then there'd be little to galvanise support and marches.

It is you whose actions are inflammatory.

Happyman42

Laminations wrote: »

It is you whose actions are inflammatory.

As I keep saying to you, it is not 'my' actions we should be worried about.
The point is, does diplomacy and government intervention have a role to play in easing tensions and stopping the growth of violent organisations.
My answer is yes it definately has.
Stick to your (in this case) high moral ground and take the consequences. You can have no complaints, because we all know what will happen.

Happyman42

Happyman42 wrote: »

Your comments about holding Allen to 'account' and your one above clearly indicate that you favour the suppression of any political thought other than your own. Why shouldn't SF and the SWP sign this letter with a lot of others? They have a democratic mandate just like FF, FG and Labour.
Dispute it's contents by all means.
Despite people like you, we still live in a democracy where political thought is not suppressed... allegedly.:rolleyes:

How exactly is holding someone to account the same as suppressing their opinion? Do tell.

Happyman42

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

How exactly is holding someone to account the same as suppressing their opinion? Do tell.

He is entitled to his opinion, you are not entitled to 'hold him to account' as if it was illegal to have a contrary opinion to yours, having an opinion is not something a person 'has' to 'account' for in itself. You are entitled to disagree with his opinion though.

You're confusing me with Marian Price if you think that 'hold him to account' translates into anything remotely undemocratic.

You're practically insinuating that I want him taken out and knee-capped. A few leaflets placed around the sociology corridors will suffice, so that people can have a greater sense of what this guy, whose wages we are paying, really thinks.

Happyman42

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

You're confusing me with Marian Price if you think that 'hold him to account' translates into anything remotely undemocratic.

You're practically insinuating that I want him taken out and knee-capped. A few leaflets placed around the sociology corridors will suffice, so that people can have a greater sense of what this guy, whose wages we are paying, really thinks.

:rolleyes::rolleyes: good lord, we have rattled a cage!

He is entitled to his opinion, regardless if we pay him to run a sociology dept or not. And why would you think leaflets are an appropiate way to 'hold him to account'? His opinions are public record as far as I can see. If those recieving your leaflets don't know it then they probably aren't bothered by his opinions.
The fact that you would attempt to undermine his tenure of employment because he holds a contrary opinion to you, speaks volumes about you. What you are insinuating is that he can't have that job if he holds x opinion. It's just another form of attempted suppression, not very effective or honest, but an attempt at suppression all the same.

Exactly, he has put his position behind this public statement, and what i can do is facilitate his message to the students, and let them make up their own mind.

Where is the problem there?

Happyman42

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Exactly, he has put his position behind this public statement, and what i can do is facilitate his message to the students, and let them make up their own mind.

Where is the problem there?

Which is not 'holding him to account'. :rolleyes: You hold someone 'to account' for a wrong doing. Which is impossible in this instance no matter how much you desire it. All you can do is disagree.
His opinion is out there for you and his students to disagree with or agree with. Otherwise get on with your studies.

Well, sounds like you'd better get onto oxford about your new *definitive* definition of being held to account.

Happyman42

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Well, sounds like you'd better get onto oxford about your new *definitive* definition of being held to account.

Nah, I'll just print some leaflets, to tell people about something that was well known in the first place, that ought to do it. :rolleyes:

Fenian Army

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

From what I can find, it's all Eirigi, SF, and other assorted dirtbags who are calling for her release. Can you point me to the press releases etc of any other party that you claim, FF etc, are supporting her relief.

The Dublin City Council motion means nothing. It was put forward by SF and sponsored by the aforementioned bags of dirt.

I also see that a whopping 40 people turned up to a demonstration for her in Dublin - i.e. she has no support. In fact, I'm sure more people could have been mobilized to march so that she stays in jail!

This country has moved on. Why can't you, or Marian for that matter?

You should really get your facts right.

There was over a thousand at the recent march in Dublin. It was not a SF motion. I showered this morning, I'm not a dirtbag.

I'm not here to spoon feed, a quick google should tell you what you need to know.

Laminations, it takes a certain amount of arrogance to label the many many people who disagree with you as misled, hoodwinked. They have the same facts you do, they came to a different conclusion.

Funny how your hatred for SF and republicans shines through - when they want marian released they are evil bastards but others who agree (as I've said previously includes Nobel peace prize winers as well as many political parties, from the SDLP to FF) are poor little fragile minded souls who got hoodwinked. Come on.

Fenian Army

Laminations wrote: »

Except one of the most famous ulster loyalists 'Mad dog' Johnny Adair was imprisoned in 2003 after his license was revoked. Michael Stone also had his license revoked. And in 2009 Torrens Knight hashish license suspended and was jailed.

This situation will inflame and increase resentment as long as you dishonestly refer to it as internment. If you portrayed Prices case as one of thousands who have their license revoked rather than some unique example of British oppression then there'd be little to galvanise support and marches.

It is you whose actions are inflammatory.

Why were those people returned to jail... Let me guess(well, its not really a guess), it was for committing crimes?

Stone tried to murder lots of people in the assembly... hardly comparable to being at a speech

JustinDee

Fenian Army wrote: »

Stone tried to murder lots of people in the assembly... hardly comparable to being at a speech . . .

. . . condoning "murder lots of people" to such a degree, even holding the slip of paper for out-of-shape balaclava-clad to read from.

They didn't lick it off a stone.

Fenian Army

Fenian Army wrote: »

You should really get your facts right.

There was over a thousand at the recent march in Dublin. It was not a SF motion. I showered this morning, I'm not a dirtbag.

I'm not here to spoon feed, a quick google should tell you what you need to know.

Laminations, it takes a certain amount of arrogance to label the many many people who disagree with you as misled, hoodwinked. They have the same facts you do, they came to a different conclusion.

Funny how your hatred for SF and republicans shines through - when they want marian released they are evil bastards but others who agree (as I've said previously includes Nobel peace prize winers as well as many political parties, from the SDLP to FF) are poor little fragile minded souls who got hoodwinked. Come on.

My mistake, it was Eirigi that put forward the motion. One and the same anyway.

Also, do you have any evidence of this 1000 strong march? I would have trouble counting even 40 marchers on the street. There are far more people simply looking on with bemusement.



On a lighter note, it's good to see this newfound love affair between the republican faithful and Fine Fail in this thread. Although, I've yet to see any sort of press release or statement by FF who, going by this thread, seem to have turned into the Free Marian Price Party.



Who, exactly, do you think you are fooling?


Also, now that I am home, I see that the letter of support for Marian was from June. Not today, as implied.

Fenian Army

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

My mistake, it was Eirigi that put forward the motion. One and the same anyway.

Also, do you have any evidence of this 1000 strong march? I would have trouble counting even 40 marchers on the street. There are far more people simply looking on with bemusement.

On a lighter note, it's good to see this newfound love affair between the republican faithful and Fine Fail in this thread. Although, I've yet to see any sort of press release or statement by FF who, going by this thread, seem to have turned into the Free Marian Price Party.
Who, exactly, do you think you are fooling?
Also, now that I am home, I see that the letter of support for Marian was from June. Not today, as implied.

I was at the march at saw it for myself - there was easily a thousand who marched. You sure we are talking about the same one?

Yes the letter is from a while ago, new people are signing it all the while. As I said, google the bloody thing. FF tds have submitted parliamentary questions on her behalf, as have ULA and SF tds. Eamon O Cuiv has done a good bit of work. SDLP have released tons of statements and met with people. Other parties have done similar. I'm not here to spoonfeed you.

Its clear you arent interested in engaging in a sensible discussion given your inability to grasp basic facts and insistence on flaming and perpetuating untruths such as eirigi being the same as SF.

You're the one fooling yourself.

Fenian Army

JustinDee wrote: »

. . . condoning "murder lots of people" to such a degree, even holding the slip of paper for out-of-shape balaclava-clad to read from.

They didn't lick it off a stone.

Massive difference between trying to force your way into the chamber with weapons to kill people and holding a piece of paper with a speech

One is a crime, the other is not (charges were dismissed).

Fenian Army

Fenian Army wrote: »

I was at the march at saw it for myself - there was easily a thousand who marched. You sure we are talking about the same one?

Yes the letter is from a while ago, new people are signing it all the while. As I said, google the bloody thing. FF tds have submitted parliamentary questions on her behalf, as have ULA and SF tds. Eamon O Cuiv has done a good bit of work. SDLP have released tons of statements and met with people. Other parties have done similar. I'm not here to spoonfeed you.

Its clear you arent interested in engaging in a sensible discussion given your inability to grasp basic facts and insistence on flaming and perpetuating untruths such as eirigi being the same as SF.

You're the one fooling yourself.

This is literally the most populated picture I could find, taken from an angle which can only be described as flattering:



I am going to go out on a limb here and call you a liar, sir.

Fenian Army

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

This is literally the most populated picture I could find, taken from an angle which can only be described as flattering:



I am going to go out on a limb here and call you a liar, sir.

tbh I really don't care if you believe me or not... I was there, I marched and I know how many people were there. People were still marching down the left hand side of O Connell street when the band and the front of the march had stopped at the GPO.

Your basis for saying there was only 40 people is a picture which shows more than 40 marching, and thats only a small section of the march. I dont think I am the one speaking mis-truths.

Fenian Army

Fenian Army wrote: »

tbh I really don't care if you believe me or not... I was there, I marched and I know how many people were there. People were still marching down the left hand side of O Connell street when the band and the front of the march had stopped at the GPO.

Your basis for saying there was only 40 people is a picture which shows more than 40 marching, and thats only a small section of the march. I dont think I am the one speaking mis-truths.

Surely you can find a more accurate pictorial representation then? I don't really see more than around 40 people - there are two single-file lines of people along a stretch of O'Connell street that is about 20 meters long.


Is this the band you're talking about? Numbering about 10?



Note that there are far more people looking on than marching.

JustinDee

Fenian Army wrote: »

Massive difference between trying to force your way into the chamber with weapons to kill people and holding a piece of paper with a speech

One is a crime, the other is not (charges were dismissed).

Both sets of whackos represented. When some obese anonymous wally in fatigues needs somebody else to hold a sheet of paper, they are both threatening the people they allegedly are 'fighting' for. All for the self-serving cause of an illegal organisation ignorant to the will of the majority.

Quit trying to alleviate any of their delusions or make them out to be innocents just having a chin-wag in the open. They were doing everything but.
Thankfully not everyone is as quite literally stupid enough to align with the organisation in question.

You're done. No reply needed. You won't be changing anyone's mind, proving them wrong or otherwise.

Fenian Army

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Surely you can find a more accurate pictorial representation then? I don't really see more than around 40 people - there are two single-file lines of people along a stretch of O'Connell street that is about 20 meters long.


Is this the band you're talking about? Numbering about 10?



Note that there are far more people looking on than marching.

The picture you linked - see the van in the background? (you can just see the top of it - thats the Garda van that was at the rear of the parade), there was also lots more not pictured.

Why would I bother? I was there, I know how many marched. If you don't believe me, I dont really care.

Fenian Army

JustinDee wrote: »

Both sets of whackos represented. When some obese anonymous wally in fatigues needs somebody else to hold a sheet of paper, they are both threatening the people they allegedly are 'fighting' for. All for the self-serving cause of an illegal organisation ignorant to the will of the majority.

Quit trying to alleviate any of their delusions or make them out to be innocents just having a chin-wag in the open. They were doing everything but.
Thankfully not everyone is as quite literally stupid enough to align with the organisation in question.

You're done. No reply needed. You won't be changing anyone's mind, proving them wrong or otherwise.

What she did, was not a crime.

Laminations

Fenian Army wrote: »

What she did, was not a crime.

It didnt need to be for her to be imprisoned on standard recall. That's been pointed out to you many times.

Laminations

Fenian Army wrote: »

Laminations, it takes a certain amount of arrogance to label the many many people who disagree with you as misled, hoodwinked. They have the same facts you do, they came to a different conclusion.

Funny how your hatred for SF and republicans shines through - when they want marian released they are evil bastards but others who agree (as I've said previously includes Nobel peace prize winers as well as many political parties, from the SDLP to FF) are poor little fragile minded souls who got hoodwinked. Come on.

They were not presented with an even-handed summary of the facts at DCC. Louise Minehan portrayed Marian as some sick frail woman who couldn't hurt a fly being subject to British internment for doing nothing.

She did far from nothing.

And I include SFers in my list of the misguided, just not the ones on this thread who maintain the fallacy that she committed no crime therefore shouldn't be in jail. She was recalled after her release license was revoked, a situation which happens to thousands per year who don't commit 'criminal' offences or have charges dropped. She is unique only in the support she garners

Seaneh

Laminations wrote: »

She was re imprisoned for breaking the terms of her release license.

Only problem being she wasn't released under licence, she was pardoned.

The pardon then disappeared and a licence was invented.

So in essence, she is being held without trial for breaking a crime she isn't liable for.

Laminations

Seaneh wrote: »

Only problem being she wasn't released under licence, she was pardoned.

The pardon then disappeared and a licence was invented.

So in essence, she is being held without trial for breaking a crime she isn't liable for.

ALL early releases from life sentences are on license. It was reported in the papers at the time that she was released on license. Cite me some reports of this pardon and what it related to? Where is Prices evidence of the pardon? Why would an unrepentant terrorist witch of a woman get a complete pardon? If she got a pardon it was for the shorter concurrent 20 year sentence. There is far more likelihood that the pardon was invented then the release license since release licenses are common practice in these cases.

Has her solicitor from the time corroborated her story? Has anyone?

Fenian Army

http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/22263

Only a matter of time one hopes

Laminations

Fenian Army wrote: »

http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/22263

Only a matter of time one hopes

“It is clear once again that Marian Price is unfit to stand trial and should be released immediately

What is she standing trial for? She breached her license, she didn't commit a crime.

I've said I accept her release on humanitarian grounds but not an unconditional release into the community. An eating disorder should not erase the crimes she committed (originally) nor excuse her dissident behaviour.

Would you accept her release into hospital in-patient treatment for her mental issues and anorexia, to stabilise her weight, followed by an extended period of house arrest?

And possibly some anger management therapy.

So would you accept her release with conditions?

Fenian Army

No, and I believe she will get an unconditional release in the near future.