3yr old kicked out of pre-school

fptosca

Sorry for the long post.

Our 3yr old has been kicked out of pre-school today after only 2 weeks. This hasn't come as a surprise to us given his behaviour. It seems that he's not ready to go to pre-school yet (as the teacher says) as he would start crying at some point every day and the teacher sent him home earlier as he was un-settling the other kids and she couldn't calm him down.
Some times he lasted just for half an hour. His record has been two hours.
Inevitably, however, he would cry non stop until he was sent home.
For the last couple of days he even wet himself in front of the class. This is strange and he has been toilet trained for several months.
He really DOES NOT WANT TO BE THERE....

At 3, I though he should be fine going to pre-school. He hasn't gone to a creche but we've used a Childminder. Maybe this has slowed the development of skills to be with other kids.., although this didn't really showed until now. He talks and understand ok for a kid of his age. In fact he talks and understand in 3 languages.

I'm worried about him being kicked out of pre-school...
Has anyone experienced something similar?
Is it normal that he might not be ready yet or do you think there are other issues here?

Moonbeam

What are the reasons that they specified?

Hannibal Smith

Pre-school can best daunting. My eldest started last week. He's been going to the same creche for 2 and half years now, but even he'd unsettled in montessori. He's in with some older children and he was really upset about it all last week.

I'm surprised the creche aren't being more supportive. They could have slowly introduced him to the idea by having him in an hour one day, two hours etc etc and slowly build him up to the idea.

I wouldn't say its the first time a child hasn't settled in well, its a massive change to them.

I hope he's ok...little trooper!

fptosca

Moonbeam wrote: »

What are the reasons that they specified?

The teacher just says that he was upsetting other kids because he was crying that much and that he's not ready to go yet. He was not integrating with the other kids, which are older.

fptosca

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Pre-school can best daunting. My eldest started last week. He's been going to the same creche for 2 and half years now, but even he'd unsettled in montessori. He's in with some older children and he was really upset about it all last week.

I'm surprised the creche aren't being more supportive. They could have slowly introduced him to the idea by having him in an hour one day, two hours etc etc and slowly build him up to the idea.

I wouldn't say its the first time a child hasn't settled in well, its a massive change to them.

I hope he's ok...little trooper!

Yeah, I though it's a big change but I though he would cope with it. Maybe I didn't realized how big a change it's for him
He's better now that he knows pre-school is over for the moment anyway.

Queen-Mise

fptosca wrote: »

The teacher just says that he was upsetting other kids because he was crying that much and that he's not ready to go yet. He was not integrating with the other kids, which are older.

The preschool is utterly wrong and I would be inclined to report them to whatever the relevant body is.

The whole idea of preschool is that is a halfway point between the home and school where they deal with these kind of social anxieties etc. The fault is with the pre-school for not being able to handle your son.

My daughter was in crèches/wobblers/toddlers/pre-school groups from six months old (part-time) up until 5 when she started school. From being coming in and out of the crèches I saw plenty of children with the same behaviour as your son. The crèche staff calmly dealt with them and constantly reassured them. In some cases it did take two months for the kids to calm down. My daughter is gone into 1st class now - but one of the kids with her in Jnr Infants took until November crying every morning before she calmed - it was her first time away from home.

The creche made an awful mistake & one they should have known better to make in letting you collect him early for being upset. What is a three year old going to do - of course he is going to act up and cry etc because he knows if he makes enough of a fuss his mother will be sent for to bring him home. If he knew you were not going to collect him until his three hours were up - in a week or two he would have settled down.

The creche were utterly unprofesssional & handled your son wrong. And him upsetting the other kids is wrong also... I saw it with my own daughter in the creches over the five years - kids can be having full out tantrums, screaming etc... and the other kids would take no notice after a while.

Find a better creche & unless your son is sick or has an appointment elsewhere on no account pick up early.

Queen-Mise

fptosca wrote: »

Yeah, I though it's a big change but I though he would cope with it. Maybe I didn't realized how big a change it's for him
He's better now that he knows pre-school is over for the moment anyway.

Will he be starting school next September... When does he turn four?

Hannibal Smith

fptosca wrote: »

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Pre-school can best daunting. My eldest started last week. He's been going to the same creche for 2 and half years now, but even he'd unsettled in montessori. He's in with some older children and he was really upset about it all last week.

I'm surprised the creche aren't being more supportive. They could have slowly introduced him to the idea by having him in an hour one day, two hours etc etc and slowly build him up to the idea.

I wouldn't say its the first time a child hasn't settled in well, its a massive change to them.

I hope he's ok...little trooper!

Yeah, I though it's a big change but I though he would cope with it. Maybe I didn't realized how big a change it's for him
He's better now that he knows pre-school is over for the moment anyway.

Aww poor little guy. I hope it goes better next time.

Daisy M

The preschool handled this really badly, make sure you are not losing out on your free childcare year due to this. Look around for another preschool and maybe try him again after christmas.

January

Queen-Mise wrote: »

The preschool is utterly wrong and I would be inclined to report them to whatever the relevant body is.

The whole idea of preschool is that is a halfway point between the home and school where they deal with these kind of social anxieties etc. The fault is with the pre-school for not being able to handle your son.

My daughter was in crèches/wobblers/toddlers/pre-school groups from six months old (part-time) up until 5 when she started school. From being coming in and out of the crèches I saw plenty of children with the same behaviour as your son. The crèche staff calmly dealt with them and constantly reassured them. In some cases it did take two months for the kids to calm down. My daughter is gone into 1st class now - but one of the kids with her in Jnr Infants took until November crying every morning before she calmed - it was her first time away from home.

The creche made an awful mistake & one they should have known better to make in letting you collect him early for being upset. What is a three year old going to do - of course he is going to act up and cry etc because he knows if he makes enough of a fuss his mother will be sent for to bring him home. If he knew you were not going to collect him until his three hours were up - in a week or two he would have settled down.

The creche were utterly unprofesssional & handled your son wrong. And him upsetting the other kids is wrong also... I saw it with my own daughter in the creches over the five years - kids can be having full out tantrums, screaming etc... and the other kids would take no notice after a while.

Find a better creche & unless your son is sick or has an appointment elsewhere on no account pick up early.

I really have to agree with this, last year my daughter was in play school and she caused a bit of a fuss after the Christmas holidays not wanting to go back, the teacher told me that it was a phase and not to worry that she'd grow out of it and I was best to just leave her there as if I didn't she'd never settle in to school either. I went with their advice and she settled in after about 3 weeks.

Eldest is gone off to school now not a bother, but we're having a bit of the same problem with the younger one who only cries at pick up time when she thinks mammy is not going to pick her up. I'm going with the same advice this time, I will not pick her up first just so she does not cry, because if I do she'll just do it all the time.

The pre-school should have done a lot more with your son to try and get him settled in.

jeni

have to agree, my lil girl started when she was two, and im telling you she cried for the first three months or more, every day, it used to take them fifteen mins to calm her, she started big school last week not a bother, but even now the creche talk about how bad she was,
a few times i said id take her out but they said no, i have to keep at it, really id complain to them n find a new place

Moonbeam

I think there has to be more to it to be honest.
Is it a very small pre school with 1 teacher?
At 3 they should be able for a few hours in a play school.
Does the child have other behavioral problems?
Is he registered for the ECCE scheme?

fptosca

Moonbeam wrote: »

I think there has to be more to it to be honest.
Is it a very small pre school with 1 teacher?
At 3 they should be able for a few hours in a play school.
Does the child have other behavioral problems?
Is he registered for the ECCE scheme?

Yes, it's a very small pre-school. It's only one teacher and ten kids. The school is on a extension at the side of her house.
My son doesn't have behaviour problems as far as I can see. The Childminder has been looking after him since he's one and she doesn't think so either (I have asked after all this). When we are out with frineds, sometimes he plays on his own, sometimes he plays with the other kids. I think that's normal at this age.
He didn't qualified this year for the ECCE scheme because of his birthday beingin August. The rate was €200 per month. He'll qualify for the ECCE from next September.

fptosca

Queen-Mise, jeni, January, Daisy M - Thanks a lot for your messages. They really make me feel a lot better about the whole thing. Well, not about the pre-school teacher but, in a way, I'm glad that she's to take some of the blame for him not settling fine.
Based on the experiences that you describe, it looks like she didn't try hard enough if she kicked him out only after 2 weeks.

We are not sure if we should leave him with the Childminder or bringing to a Creche for this year and then to pre-school from next September. Possibly the Creche will help him more to be on an environment with other kids that will make the transition to pre-school a bit easier.

Sponge25

3, is quite young to start, most kids start at 4 AFAIK! So maybe he's just a little young and isn't ready to be away from mummy yet.

If I was you i'd keep him out untill next year and spend this year trying to get him ready to be away from you, taking a bigger step each time. Next year if he still cries for you ya can try sitting beside him in class for a few days and decrease the amount of time ya spend with him each day if it's ok with the teacher!

I wouldn't say it's a development problem, he's just afraid I'd say that his mummy who he's depended on for all his short life isn't there anymore and he's scared or misses you. Some kids are just really attached to their mum, more so than others.

Don't worry too much he's just a mamma's boy!

Queen-Mise

fptosca wrote: »

Queen-Mise, jeni, January, Daisy M - Thanks a lot for your messages. They really make me feel a lot better about the whole thing. Well, not about the pre-school teacher but, in a way, I'm glad that she's to take some of the blame for him not settling fine.
Based on the experiences that you describe, it looks like she didn't try hard enough if she kicked him out only after 2 weeks.

We are not sure if we should leave him with the Childminder or bringing to a Creche for this year and then to pre-school from next September. Possibly the Creche will help him more to be on an environment with other kids that will make the transition to pre-school a bit easier.

I would seriously consider reporting the preschool teacher because she made some serious errors with your son and whose knows what other kinds of errors she is making with the kids. She wanted your son out of there because it would have been too much hassle for her to settle him down - that is no way to run a pre school. What happens if she comes across a child with the beginning of dyslexia, ADD, ADHD or any other disorder, what would she do then? Scary to think about.

In a weird way be grateful that your son is out of there - find a very respectable pre-school, some of the government subsidised ones are excellent. Both places we used with our kids were community childcare places and were fantastic. Get your son on a waiting list at least for next year for the 3 hours five mornings.

My suggestion is find another daycare centre ASAP, explain what happened with the last one. Start with one hour maybe twice a week. Then two hours, after Halloween twice a week. December, the full three hours. Leave him there with that until Easter, and the see can you get him in three days for three hours until the summer holidays.

Next September then, he will be as prepared as you can make him for proper pre-school.

Hannibal Smith

Did you sign a contract for the ecce scheme? I wonder is she still getting funding for your son? Or is that how it works? What happens with your contract I wonder?

January

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Did you sign a contract for the ecce scheme? I wonder is she still getting funding for your son? Or is that how it works? What happens with your contract I wonder?

He's not on the ECCE scheme until next year.

The place where I have my two year old at the moment is brilliant. There's two minders there and at the moment there are only 6 children, there will be 8 at Christmas time because there's two too young to start at the moment.

I know I couldn't look after 10 pre-school age children alone, is that what the ratio is these days?

Queen-Mise

January wrote: »

He's not on the ECCE scheme until next year.

The place where I have my two year old at the moment is brilliant. There's two minders there and at the moment there are only 6 children, there will be 8 at Christmas time because there's two too young to start at the moment.

I know I couldn't look after 10 pre-school age children alone, is that what the ratio is these days?

Seriously doubt it. I think it is one to six at the most. Not entirely sure though.

movingsucks

Hiya,
I was an antichrist going to playschool, screaming, crying, howling. And the teacher was our friend and neighbour! I happily played in her house many a time but in the playschool setting I just freaked.
My mother "wouldn't give in to a three year old" and to this day she regrets not taking me out and trying again later, so maybe this will be a blessing in disguise for you and your son. Some kids just aren't ready when others are.
Good luck with your next steps.

Hannibal Smith

January wrote: »

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Did you sign a contract for the ecce scheme? I wonder is she still getting funding for your son? Or is that how it works? What happens with your contract I wonder?

He's not on the ECCE scheme until next year.

The place where I have my two year old at the moment is brilliant. There's two minders there and at the moment there are only 6 children, there will be 8 at Christmas time because there's two too young to start at the moment.

I know I couldn't look after 10 pre-school age children alone, is that what the ratio is these days?

How do you know he's not ecce? Oh maybe I haven't read properly. <<<<< edit: ah just saw...doesn't qualify till next year

There are two minders in my guy's place. One seems to be a teacher and the other her assistant. Seems to be like a sub contractor. But there would be about 10 In the room. I guess most of them are institutionalized, having been in creche for so long, and the new ones follow their lead?

Captain Pillowcase

Ratios for the ECCE Scheme are 1:11 but as your little one is sessional non ECCE it would be 1:10.

I am really sorry to hear that your son was not allowed to continue, this is very very wrong. I work in childcare and we deal with children who are upset, some who are hard to calm down etc but that is what we are trained for. Each child takes their time to settle and just because one child settles quickly does not mean they all will, some take longer than others. He is his own little person and needs to be respected as such. His play school did not try for very long and there should have been open communication with you. Sometimes when they are very very upset you would call, you don't want them to hate it and you go down the route of a longer 'settling in' period, gain their trust and move on from there.

I hope this does not put you off creche's as most of us out there do try really hard and will work with the children and their parents. Childcare in Ireland has come on so much since back in the day, it's heavily regulated and subject to numerous inspections both from Pobal and the HSE and some others also. Staff should be a minimum of Fetac Level 5 and in all honesty should be able to work with a little one who is having a tougher time than some in making the transistion.

I hope he is better and hopefully soon you will find the right setting for you both, one that will work with you and for him and will let him make the best start in his early years.

Moonbeam

It might help sending him to a bigger play school with more kids and teachers.
It can be very hard on a teacher if one child takes up all your time and the other kids are loosing out as a result but in a place with more teachers there is less pressure on one individual.

George..

Queen-Mise wrote: »

Seriously doubt it. I think it is one to six at the most. Not entirely sure though.

It's worse, it's 1:11 for ECCE children! It's tough work!

Ellsbells

Name and shame.... If she can't do her job then she shouldnt be doing it.

January

Ellsbells wrote: »

Name and shame.... If she can't do her job then she shouldnt be doing it.

No, we won't be naming and shaming anyone.

Ayla

Honestly, what ever happened to the idea of listening to the message a child is trying to say? If the child is unconsolable to the point of wetting himself he is seriously unhappy. I always cringe when I hear parents/care givers claiming a 3-yr old should just "suck it up & deal" with a situation that they can't handle.

As a couple other posters have said here it's most likely that your son just wasn't ready for this step. It means nothing sinister about his developmental level, just that he isn't ready. Take him out, don't try to put him anywhere yet. Try again - incrementally - in 6-12 months.

Ellsbells

January wrote: »

No, we won't be naming and shaming anyone.

I dont mean here sorry. I mean to the appropriate parties.

January

Ellsbells wrote: »

I dont mean here sorry. I mean to the appropriate parties.

Ahhh I see, well obviously that's ok!

caprilicious

I am shocked that nursery would send a child home & say they couldn't be settled.

I worked in childcare for several years, both in a small nursery with similar numbers as the creche your child attended and a huge purpose built one.
Never in that time did I see a child that could not settle.

It's not rocket science, if the child is upset, they are given more time and attention until the point that they feel comfortable in their new surrounds & happy to be there.
As was mentioned already, the child is brought in incrementally, an hour the first day, two hours the next etc over a 1-2 week period until they settle.
If your child was getting upset to the point of wetting them self, that's more like the childminder was overwhelmed and not able to give him the time he needed.
Did they even ask you to stay a little longer when you brought him in until he was settled then slip out while he was distracted?

My daughter attended a nursery from 6 months til just after her second birthday. At this point I was on maternity leave so I kept her at home.
I planned to start her in a new nursery when I returned to work, so earlier in the Summer started bringing her in 4 hours a day 2 days a week.
She was ok at first but after 3-4 weeks would get extremely upset going into nursery.
Two consecutive days she was hysterical going in, so we turned around and went home.

We left it a few months to closer to the end of my maternity leave. I was going to change nursery altogether at this point, but have had brilliant recommendations about the place.
I decided to give it one more go & worked out a plan with the nursery manager to settle her in.
I request a key minder in the toddler room. One individual that would specifically look after my daughter until she settled & keep an eye on her.

When I brought her the first day, she was fine going into nursery but within a few minutes of observing her behaviour I seen there was one particular child that was upsetting her.
The child wasn't bad, just very overbearing and in her face which my daughter didn't like.

When I weaned her in, I planned her weaning in days with the manager around days this other particular child wasn't it.
Her key minder kept an eye on her & the staff in that room made sure to keep the other child & her apart as much as possible until she got used to her.
She now runs into nursery without a backward glance & if anything I have a job getting her out of the place when it's home time she's having so much fun
She's also ok with the child that had been overbearing & gives her hugs now

If you are in a position where you can hold off a little longer then it might be no harm.
He may be a little traumatised still from that creches mismanagement of his settle in period. Maybe try again after Christmas but definitely in a different nursery.
With the next nursery discuss what happened this time & work out a 2 week settle in schedule with them.

fptosca

I'm going to take 3 weeks off work next month and we are going to bring him to a creche where there's also Montessori. I explained them what happened on the pre-school and they are confident he'll settle fine with them. I'll bring him for an hour or two for the first few days and we'll increase the time he spends in the creche gradually.
He's a lovely boy. He's a bit shy when meeting other kids and adults but he is very friendly once he get confidence with them.

I'm glad that he's out of that pre-school. I feel somewhat encourage to report the pre-school and I might do it next week. It might benefit other kids in the future.