How much do you need to earn?

OnTheCounter

Firstly I'm not talking about a 22 year old single person whose biggest expense after rent is Saturday night.

These days how much does a young middle class family (2 adults, 2 children and a dog) need to earn annually after tax to get by?

Assuming these days both parents are working these are the costs faced by most assuming 1 kid in primary school and another in a creche:

Food
Mortage
Car payments X2
Creche costs
School related expenses
ESB
Gas/Oil
10 day foreign holiday
Health insurance X4
Car insurance X2
Petrol (unbelieveably expensive these days)
House insurance
Put aside a few euros for retirement/rainy day
Travel in Ireland
Christmas/Birthdays
House maintaince and appliances
Occasional entertainment costs
Clothes
Computer
Kids activities
Friends weddings/hotel/present
Ect

Basically to have a reasonable standard of living (not mtv cribs standard) but comfortable enough for a husband and wife who both have decent jobs how much do you need to earn? It might be good to give a breakdown of each individual cost to see where the expenses lie.

In an era of decreasing salaries, increasing costs and getting the bejaysus taxed out of us can an average family hope to be reasonably comfortable?

Colmustard

These days 1 million dollars.

And may inflate to 1 billion dollars

TheBrinch

10 day holiday, 2 cars, clothes.... Expectations are a bit high

OnTheCounter

Colmustard wrote: »

These days 1 million dollars.

And may inflate to 1 billion dollars

its a serious question that we all have to deal with sooner or later. It would be good to have a proper discussion to get some realastic figures.

El Weirdo

Quite a few of them items in your list are rather unnecessary to "get by".

monkeysnapper

OnTheCounter wrote: »

its a serious question .

then don't post it in the after hours thread

OnTheCounter

TheBrinch wrote: »

10 day holiday, 2 cars, clothes.... Expectations are a bit high

Im not talking about having 2 new BMWs in the driveway, just a couple of motors to bring the kids to school, get to work, go to the supermarket, ect.

A 10 day holiday is not high expectations for a family where both parents are in full time skilled work. Again its not first class flights, 5 star hotels and the best of restaurants Im talking about.

girl in the striped socks

It all depends on the mortgage you have, size house, part of the country you live in etc.
From the list you gave there's not a huge amount of people who would be able to afford some of the things you mentioned. 10day foreign holiday? I've no kids but I couldn't afford that at the minute.
It seems that whenever I'm flush with money something unexpected comes along that cleans me out. Hit a pothole & wreck an alloy & tracking, dog eats something he shouldn't have & it's off to the vets, oil gets stolen etc. the list can go on.

starbelgrade

OnTheCounter wrote: »

It might be good to give a breakdown of each individual cost to see where the expenses lie.

How depressing. "Let's see what people spend", followed by pages of posts ripping them apart saying stuff like "I can't believe you spent €5k on a holiday and say that you can't afford child care".

im invisible

'bout three fiddy?

Tom_Cruise

50k after tax would be alot for a family of 4 and would provide a good standard of living if spent correctly.

Micky Dolenz

Too many variables to be fair.

Where does this family live?
Have they access to public transport?
Are schools within walking distance?
Where is the 10 day foreign holiday?
Where would they travel in Ireland?
What sky package have they?
etc
etc
etc

eth0

Food

Grow yer own, guerilla gardening, maoam bars, lidl, tins of baked beans

Mortage

To hell with that, buy that shack in Limerick for 10k and renovate it using the contents of a skip


Car payments X2

1x Skoda Fabia + 1x Peugeot 106 <= 2,000e

Creche costs

No cousin to look after them?

School related expenses

50c for a set of lunchboxes from the boot sale + second hand books

ESB

Off the grid?

Gas/Oil

28e for a drum of calor, should last months if you only use it to cook

10 day foreign holiday

Car to cardiff or a ryanair special. Stay in a hostel

Health insurance X4

Get the parish priest to ask God nicely to prevent you from getting sick

Car insurance X2

Cars I mentioned do 0-60 in 60 seconds so won't be much

Petrol (unbelieveably expensive these days)

I think it might be possible to convert a car to run off of propane cylinders that people leave outside their house at night.

House insurance

It's worth nothing, so why bother insuring it?

Put aside a few euros for retirement/rainy day

Find a few abandoned shopping trolleys. Walk around town with your head down

Travel in Ireland

Aran Islands + 2 days good weather + free travel pass + hostel

Christmas/Birthdays

Forest->Christmas tree

House maintaince and appliances

Jump into a skip, repair broken items you find.

Occasional entertainment costs

Old TV + no license

Clothes

Charity shop + needle and thread

Computer

From scrap, pringles can for wifi antenna and do a bit of WPA2 cracking.

Kids activities

Exercise bike tied to old car alternator to generate electricity

Friends weddings/hotel/present

Steal from less-worthy friends you were getting rid of anyway

Ect

To hell with that

OnTheCounter

Tom_Cruise wrote: »

50k after tax would be alot for a family of 4 and would provide a good standard of living if spent correctly.

Im wondering if that is the standard to have a reasonable standard of living. That is the figure I had in mind when I started the thread.

FANTAPANTS

we are on 40 grand after tax and its tough after this budget id say we are ****ed

OnTheCounter

El Weirdo wrote: »

Quite a few of them items in your list are rather unnecessary to "get by".

im not talking about getting rich but im not talking about being down to your last e10 on payday either.

humbert

I don't know but I assume two people on anything at or above the average industrial wage could manage that, assuming house/cars are not fancy.

What the OP is describing is 'get by' in the middle class sense, which is fair enough.

OnTheCounter

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Too many variables to be fair.

Where does this family live?
Have they access to public transport?
Are schools within walking distance?
Where is the 10 day foreign holiday?
Where would they travel in Ireland?
What sky package have they?
etc
etc
etc

im not talking about a specific family.

im talking about the average middle class working family.

Tom_Cruise

OnTheCounter wrote: »

Im wondering if that is the standard to have a reasonable standard of living. That is the figure I had in mind when I started the thread.

As stated above,its a near impossible question to answer as there are so many variables.When you take each variable into account they could easily add another few thousand to the amount needed to have a reasonable standard of living.


50k or so a year after tax is a good base amount to start of with and then work from there i reckon,but everyone spends money in different ways.

Micky Dolenz

OnTheCounter wrote: »

im not talking about a specific family.

im talking about the average middle class working family.

Stupid question.

A middle class family in Limerick city, where one or both parents work in the city will need less then a middle class family in Bray, where the parents work in Dublin.

So to answer your question, between 35k and 60k.

breadmonster

earn muahahaha just go on the scratch and do a few nixers like everyone else

A_Sober_Paddy

Hear this question a lot, and its often followed by so rubbish about tax and the government

Itend to hear it from people who bought houses, to which I say "didn't need to buy a house" normally followed by aggressively explained reasons for why they need to buy a house...most of thee people are crippled with mortgage repayments through their poor financial management.

Next up is Kids and the cost to sent them to school...well then don't have kids if you can't afford them, before you have kids get a savings fund together if you can't afford to do that, then you can't afford to have kids.

And to people who say, that during the good times, you had the money well everything is a cycle and people really should have educated themselves, a simple way to put it, everything that goes up must come back down to ground...

In the OP list, there are many things that from the good times...

Who needs two cars, 10 days foreign holiday, xmas & birthdays(set limits and budget) creche cost(If you can't afford them, then either one parent stop working or if that's not possible because of your career then kids should not have been had) & Weddings(if they are too expensive, don't go and explain that things are tight)

I've just come off the dole, where I was able to get by on €144 a week and in my job I'm earning a little less than my dole(still waiting to get casual dole sorted).

People who complain or struggle to get by do so because of poor planning in the majority of cases...People who are struggling financially as a result to illness then that's the governments fault as everyone should be entitled to(and receive it) a good standard of free medical care in this country

humbert

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Stupid question.

A middle class family in Limerick city, where one or both parents work in the city will need less then a middle class family in Bray, where the parents work in Dublin.

So to answer your question, between 35k and 60k.

But if you answer the question based on your experience in your area, then other people do the same, we all get a pretty good idea. Or you can whinge about the vagaries of the question.

Colmustard

Its not the list of regular expenses that break you its the surprises, a car crash, damage to your property, illness, a layoff, a paycut, maintenance needed.

But somehow you manage and cope.

I would say 60, 50 for regular spending and 5 to 10 for saving.

FANTAPANTS

work in army missus works in liberty after all bills are paid we have feck all to go on with levies and other stupid taxes... i really im worried about this next budget as i think we are going to go broke

Micky Dolenz

humbert wrote: »

But if you answer the question based on your experience in your area, then other people do the same, we all get a pretty good idea. Or you can whinge about the vagaries of the question.

Why in Gods name would people want/need to reveal personal details here?

The question is deeply flawed, pointing that out is not whinging.

How much is your mortgage, spending costs btw?

humbert

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Why in Gods name would people want/need to reveal personal details here?

The question is deeply flawed, pointing that out is not whinging.

How much is your mortgage, spending costs btw?

I don't have a mortgage or any dept or a family or a car. You don't have to say how much you earn or spend but based on what you do earn or spend you could estimate in general in your area what you it take to satisfy the OPs requirements (maybe stating any assumptions you've made wrt a car/mortgage). Simple.

Calling the question stupid before pointing to its flaws without contributing anything is whinging.

OnTheCounter

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Why in Gods name would people want/need to reveal personal details here?

The question is deeply flawed, pointing that out is not whinging.

How much is your mortgage, spending costs btw?

thats the thing about answering on the internet, its annoymous.

You can discuss these sort of things honestly with other people facing the same difficulties without having to worry about people gossiping about your finances behind your back.

FANTAPANTS

if in next budget my wages/ and missus are cut it will be better if she leaves her job and we get income support FISC i think its called and we will be 75 euros better off every week. How can gov be happy with this some 1 else on benefits and not paying taxes than leaving us both working and paying full whack of taxes and levies.This time next year ireland will be on its knees and its time to shut the doors and watch the riots

Owen_S

Bout 350

Micky Dolenz

humbert wrote: »

I don't have a mortgage or any dept or a family or a car. You don't have to say how much you earn or spend but based on what you do earn or spend you could estimate in general in your area what you it take to satisfy the OPs requirements (maybe stating any assumptions you've made wrt a car/mortgage). Simple.

Calling the question stupid before pointing to its flaws without contributing anything is whinging.

So basically you are unqualified to even attempt to answer the question. I suppose you could always have a guess at it becuase without details, thats all it is.

You'll find I pointed out it's many variables before I called it a stupid question.

It's akin to playing pin the tail on the donkey.

Calibos

This type of thread must attract a different type of person than the 'whats a decent salary' threads.

Here most answers have been - 50-60 grand for 2 adults working 2 kids and a dog.

The other type of thread? - One simply wouldn't bother getting out of bed for less than 50-60 grand....and my partner earns 40 too...

ben36

Between myself and the wife we clear €1100 pw,pay 1k mortgage so that leaves us 3k odd for the rest and some weeks we do be struggling to pay a bill and we only have 1 car,2 school going children with no after school costs.We haven't got a penny saved and haven't been away foreign in a couple of years

Thing is i smoke like a chimney drink like a fish and like a small bet on the football.Probably €250 pw on that.The rest goes on sky,upc,esb,heating,petrol,mobiles,groceries,days out with the kids etc

OnTheCounter

FANTAPANTS wrote: »

work in army missus works in liberty after all bills are paid we have feck all to go on with levies and other stupid taxes... i really im worried about this next budget as i think we are going to go broke

its shocking with all these taxes and levies that the vast majority of families are struggling yet the fcukers in the Dail on e92k+ a year think its ok to bring in water charges and a household charge that is looking likely to be 0.25% of the value of the property and who knows what else they will increase. bloody ESB is going up 6% and the average family would fill the oil tank twice a year and that is double the cost it was about 4 years ago. People cant take much more.

FANTAPANTS

amber leaf dude if ya wanna smoke,12 cans of beer in aldi 10:49 and just back golf on a sunday for a winner

FANTAPANTS

OnTheCounter wrote: »

its shocking with all these taxes and levies that the vast majority of families are struggling yet the fcukers in the Dail on e92k+ a year think its ok to bring in water charges and a household charge that is looking likely to be 0.25% of the value of the property and who knows what else they will increase. bloody ESB is going up 6% and the average family would fill the oil tank twice a year and that is double the cost it was about 4 years ago. People cant take much more.

its just getting to much at this stage.........time for a syria:mad::mad:

OnTheCounter

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

Hear this question a lot, and its often followed by so rubbish about tax and the government

Itend to hear it from people who bought houses, to which I say "didn't need to buy a house" normally followed by aggressively explained reasons for why they need to buy a house...most of thee people are crippled with mortgage repayments through their poor financial management. Next up is Kids and the cost to sent them to school...well then don't have kids if you can't afford them, before you have kids get a savings fund together if you can't afford to do that, then you can't afford to have kids. And to people who say, that during the good times, you had the money well everything is a cycle and people really should have educated themselves, a simple way to put it, everything that goes up must come back down to ground... In the OP list, there are many things that from the good times... Who needs two cars, 10 days foreign holiday, xmas & birthdays(set limits and budget) creche cost(If you can't afford them, then either one parent stop working or if that's not possible because of your career then kids should not have been had) & Weddings(if they are too expensive, don't go and explain that things are tight) I've just come off the dole, where I was able to get by on ?144 a week and in my job I'm earning a little less than my dole(still waiting to get casual dole sorted). People who complain or struggle to get by do so because of poor planning in the majority of cases...People who are struggling financially as a result to illness then that's the governments fault as everyone should be entitled to(and receive it) a good standard of free medical care in this country

most people go to college/learn a trade and work hard. Having kids and owning your own home are not unrealastic asparations.

OnTheCounter

Calibos wrote: »

This type of thread must attract a different type of person than the 'whats a decent salary' threads.

Here most answers have been - 50-60 grand for 2 adults working 2 kids and a dog.

The other type of thread? - One simply wouldn't bother getting out of bed for less than 50-60 grand....and my partner earns 40 too...

i think its because most people in this section of the site are very young (16-22) but it was the best of the available options to get a varied discussion going.

humbert

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

So basically you are unqualified to even attempt to answer the question. I suppose you could always have a guess at it becuase without details, thats all it is.

You'll find I pointed out it's many variables before I called it a stupid question.

It's akin to playing pin the tail on the donkey.

True, I can't estimate so I'm very curious to see what figures other people come up with.

I don't see why anyone with a car and a mortgage etc. would struggle to come up with figures. I could estimate the cost of ownership of a bicycle or going to college or travelling abroad or owning a dog. State assumptions, give a figure and, if you like, estimate margin of error. No kittens will die if you're inaccurate.

Anyway, I'm cluttering the thread with this argument so I'll stop. I really am curious to see people's answers though.

OnTheCounter

ben36 wrote: »

Between myself and the wife we clear ?1100 pw,pay 1k mortgage so that leaves us 3k odd for the rest and some weeks we do be struggling to pay a bill and we only have 1 car,2 school going children with no after school costs.We haven't got a penny saved and haven't been away foreign in a couple of years Thing is i smoke like a chimney drink like a fish and like a small bet on the football.Probably ?250 pw on that.The rest goes on sky,upc,esb,heating,petrol,mobiles,groceries,days out with the kids etc

e13,000 per year on smokes, booze and paddy power are not really the expenses I am talking about.

dodderangler

How much do I earn?
Not enough I'm back in an old job and same **** going on
I'm workin me bollox off while 4-5 lazy polish assholes sit there doing **** all talkin polish to each other and not one bothers to ask if I need a hand and they gettin twice as much as me!!!!!

Zebra3

OnTheCounter wrote: »

Mortage

House bought 2006 or 2009?

Massive difference.

FANTAPANTS

car 100 euros desiel a week at min, wifes 50 euro petrol we have 2 cars as im working 1hr and 10mins away, babysitter/childminder 100 quid a week its that cheap cause its my auld one, the rest is morgage ,electricity,gas,food,clothes,nappys etc

OnTheCounter

FANTAPANTS wrote: »

its just getting to much at this stage.........time for a syria:mad::mad:

thats close to not being a joke. Fairly soon the irish attitude of it'll be grand will be replaced by mass protests... When the dole gets hit.

We take too much crap in this country because we are encouraged to blend in and not cause a fuss.

we could start seeing more of the average person protesting next year.

A_Sober_Paddy

OnTheCounter wrote: »

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

Hear this question a lot, and its often followed by so rubbish about tax and the government

Itend to hear it from people who bought houses, to which I say "didn't need to buy a house" normally followed by aggressively explained reasons for why they need to buy a house...most of thee people are crippled with mortgage repayments through their poor financial management. Next up is Kids and the cost to sent them to school...well then don't have kids if you can't afford them, before you have kids get a savings fund together if you can't afford to do that, then you can't afford to have kids. And to people who say, that during the good times, you had the money well everything is a cycle and people really should have educated themselves, a simple way to put it, everything that goes up must come back down to ground... In the OP list, there are many things that from the good times... Who needs two cars, 10 days foreign holiday, xmas & birthdays(set limits and budget) creche cost(If you can't afford them, then either one parent stop working or if that's not possible because of your career then kids should not have been had) & Weddings(if they are too expensive, don't go and explain that things are tight) I've just come off the dole, where I was able to get by on ?144 a week and in my job I'm earning a little less than my dole(still waiting to get casual dole sorted). People who complain or struggle to get by do so because of poor planning in the majority of cases...People who are struggling financially as a result to illness then that's the governments fault as everyone should be entitled to(and receive it) a good standard of free medical care in this country[/QUotd]most people go to college/learn a trade and work hard. Having kids and owning your own home are not unrealastic asparations.

I went to college, have a degree and a job...But have no intention of having kids or owning a house at the present moment for many different reason but if I did want those things I would certainly plan financially for them as they are both massive drains on the finances

FANTAPANTS

OnTheCounter wrote: »

thats close to not being a joke. Fairly soon the irish attitude of it'll be grand will be replaced by mass protests... When the dole gets hit.

We take too much crap in this country because we are encouraged to blend in and not cause a fuss.

we could start seeing more of the average person protesting next year.

your not to far wrong ...me with a batton next year hammering the face of my missus in a protest..... oh yeah we in the army arent allowed to protest or **** so its" get out their now and hammer the **** outta them protesters" or your getting your ticket

MaxSteele

Pretty soon you'll be expected to slave all week, get extorted through levies, prsi, ESB and fuel prices rises etc and not even question why you can't enjoy a penny earned for yourself as "shure aren't yeee gettin' by like".

Soon as this degree is written in paper I'm emigrating off at the speed of light.

Galwayguy35

Any particular reason OP why you only want to hear from "middle class" people?

Those of us on the minimum wage have bills and mortgages as well.

Scar Tissue

I'm a student so all my free money goes on drink

apparently :rolleyes:

Smidge

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Any particular reason OP why you only want to hear from "middle class" people?

Those of us on the minimum wage have bills and mortgages as well.

The people who have lost their jobs and are on SW still have the same bills(or almost all of them) listed by the op;)

oldat31

I have 3 kids and a dog....

Food: 10400
Mortage: Dont have one but rent a year: 3640 Council house....
Car payments X1.... we bought outright..... 2000
Creche costs: never used one...
School related expenses: lol I have 3 in school and books alone cost me 355, so I estimate 600
ESB: 1040
Gas/Oil: 1040
10 day foreign holiday.... Cant afford one!
Health insurance X5.. Cancled
Car insurance X1 :600
Petrol (unbelieveably expensive these days): 1600
House insurance: I wish.....
Put aside a few euros for retirement/rainy day: Yeah right....
Travel in Ireland: 500
Christmas/Birthdays: 5000
House maintaince and appliances: 1000
Occasional entertainment costs: 500 est
Clothes:500 est
Computer: 1020 internet....
Kids activities: 500est
Friends weddings/hotel/present: 500 est

There is more but Im not listing them..... I am unemployed and my GF works and between us we get: 28652


But adding up what we spend on the list above comes to: 30440.....

Thank god for HP.......